The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Science & Alternative Science => Topic started by: Toddler Thork on May 02, 2020, 06:17:03 PM

Title: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: Toddler Thork on May 02, 2020, 06:17:03 PM
What kind of a conspiracy website is this?

I was patiently waiting for someone else to broach the delicate subject of the US using the Covid distraction to casually mention that there are aliens and release some footage of them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52457805

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what these things might be if not aliens?
Does anyone care that aliens seem to be visiting at will?
Have we all just accepted aliens a long time ago and this is just run of the mill alien business?
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on May 02, 2020, 07:45:00 PM
US using the Covid distraction to casually mention that there are aliens and release some footage of them.
They haven't done that. They've admitted that at times they've seen they can't identify.

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Does anyone have any suggestions as to what these things might be if not aliens?

Honestly, no. But I am pretty convinced they are not aliens.

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Does anyone care that aliens seem to be visiting at will?

I would care if they were, but they are not.
I tell you why they're not. You know how mediums claim to "hear from the dead". Well they don't hear very clearly. Why are they so vague? Can't they just tell the medium some really specific information about their living loved ones which would prove it all beyond doubt? Same with ghosts, why do they always appear at night in "spooky" houses? Why never clearly during the day? And why when "aliens" abduct people is it always some farmer in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere? Why aren't these craft every seen clearly in the day? If they're coming and going as they please then you'd think in the era of smartphones we'd have photos of them everywhere.

There might well be aliens out there. In a universe this size it's perfectly feasible. But the distances between stars are unimaginable and given we think the speed of light is a universal speed limit, it doesn't seem feasible that we could either contact or visit each other.
What is the FE take on aliens anyway? Where are they from? Isn't the FE universe quite smal?
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: Toddler Thork on May 02, 2020, 10:10:26 PM
I would care if they were, but they are not.
I tell you why they're not. You know how mediums claim to "hear from the dead". Well they don't hear very clearly. Why are they so vague? Can't they just tell the medium some really specific information about their living loved ones which would prove it all beyond doubt? Same with ghosts, why do they always appear at night in "spooky" houses? Why never clearly during the day? And why when "aliens" abduct people is it always some farmer in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere? Why aren't these craft every seen clearly in the day? If they're coming and going as they please then you'd think in the era of smartphones we'd have photos of them everywhere.
This is like saying "people over 8 feet tall don't exist". Why don't you ever see them in your town? Why are they only on TV? Surely its just green screen trickery, right? Why isn't there one in my local zoo? Why can't i meet a giant? ... and the answer is ... people over 8 feet tall are extremely rare. As are alien visits. You're never likely to see one yourself. We seem to get a sightings very rarely. The last two official sightings were in 2010 and in 2014. That's not very often for one of the 7 billion people on earth to see one.

What is the FE take on aliens anyway? Where are they from? Isn't the FE universe quite smal?
Mmmm. Ok, well as usual take the disclaimer that my views to do not represent the society and different FErs have different models ... but I would suspect the majority of FErs who subscribe to some of the more common models are going to say no aliens. Not just no aliens visiting earth, but also no aliens at all anywhere.

You are correct. The universe is much smaller and at the centre of that universe is the earth. Earth is a flat planet, one of a kind and that flatness lends itself to promoting life on earth. With no other flat planets, there can't be life anywhere else.

When you sprinkle a little religion into that, God creates the earth in FE as a very special place. God isn't making alien races. The earth is the be all and end all. The universe was built around it. Creatures that live outside of the dome are referred to as angels and they don't need spaceships to travel around as they please.

I would guess aliens are highly incompatible with most models of a flat earth. And so there you finally have your answer. You want to know what evidence I will accept to believe earth must be round? Prove to me that aliens exist and leave me with an existential crisis.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: ChrisTP on May 02, 2020, 10:23:04 PM
Yea I'm of the opinion that UFO's are just that. If you identify them as aliens then they wouldn't be UFO's. Personally think there's always an explanation for these things even if we don't know what that is, and I am almost certain that explanation isn't aliens from space.

Also kinda jars me when anyone says "flat earth model" as if there is one but I would imagine most religious views of aliens is that they don't exist which is ironic because wouldn't god kinda be extraterrestrial? :P
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: Toddler Thork on May 02, 2020, 10:49:22 PM
Personally think there's always an explanation for these things even if we don't know what that is,
And yet you won't accept a flat earth if we can't provide an explanation. Interesting double standard. It is almost as if you are just seeking confirmation bias as you go from idea to idea.

Also kinda jars me when anyone says "flat earth model" as if there is one
Behold ... a model of an aircraft.
(https://d2gg9evh47fn9z.cloudfront.net/800px_COLOURBOX4003391.jpg)
This model isn't very good. It doesn't even begin to explain to me how something heavier than the air can fly. Just because this model isn't very good, that doesn't mean that a) aircraft can't fly or b) that its not a valid model. FE is the same. Some of the models are quite good. Some are a complete dog's dinner. It doesn't mean the earth isn't flat though.


but I would imagine most religious views of aliens is that they don't exist which is ironic because wouldn't god kinda be extraterrestrial? :P
God is not alien to us. We know all about Him because He used to talk to extremely reliable witnesses thousands of years ago. 
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: JSS on May 02, 2020, 11:10:13 PM
Also kinda jars me when anyone says "flat earth model" as if there is one
Behold ... a model of an aircraft.
(https://d2gg9evh47fn9z.cloudfront.net/800px_COLOURBOX4003391.jpg)
This model isn't very good. It doesn't even begin to explain to me how something heavier than the air can fly. Just because this model isn't very good, that doesn't mean that a) aircraft can't fly or b) that its not a valid model. FE is the same. Some of the models are quite good. Some are a complete dog's dinner. It doesn't mean the earth isn't flat though.

a) If you are producing that model as proof that airplanes can fly, it would fail completely. If your FE model doesn't work, it's not proof of anything.

b) A bunch of wood blocks glued together in a vague shape of an airplane is not a valid model.

I think you are confusing the term 'model' like 'model airplane' with the scientific term 'a model of a system describing it's mechanics'.

Building a wooden 'model' of a flat earth with a Plexiglas dome is just... a piece of wood with some plastic. It's not proof of anything.

A true scientific model would be a map to scale that shows the continents and how the sun and moon move around it, at a minimum. Get that working and I'll be very interested to look at it.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: Toddler Thork on May 02, 2020, 11:23:46 PM
As models go, nothing is more accurate than a time piece.

(https://people.timezone.com/jmerino/untellu.jpg)

It shows the planets moving, phases of the moon, represents the earth as a flat plane ... and works on clockwork. Not some ropey maths. It actually uses gearing to show the precise locations of the planets, where the terminator of the sun is, the position of the stars (constellations) ... there's a flat model right there. I've never seen anyone with a globe on their wrist able to do the same thing.

You can pick this up in our flat earth merch store. Just kidding, it retails for over $95,000. I guess that's the price you pay for the truth.
https://www.chrono24.com/ulyssenardin/tellurium-j-kepler-limited-edition--id4236517.htm
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: ChrisTP on May 02, 2020, 11:24:40 PM
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And yet you won't accept a flat earth if we can't provide an explanation. Interesting double standard. It is almost as if you are just seeking confirmation bias as you go from idea to idea.
I'll gladly accept something if it can be explained thoroughly. I don't immediately jump to aliens from outer space as an explanation for a literally unidentified object..  If I were walking down the street and caught a glimpse of a fast moving object on the road, my thought wouldn't be "OMG I couldn't identify that mysterious object, it must be aliens!"

My point was, the chances of those UFO's being actual aliens is slim and there is probably a better explanation for what they saw, it could be birds, it could be planes, it's not superman.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: ChrisTP on May 02, 2020, 11:27:14 PM
As models go, nothing is more accurate than a time piece.

(https://people.timezone.com/jmerino/untellu.jpg)

It shows the planets moving, phases of the moon, represents the earth as a flat plane ... and works on clockwork. Not some ropey maths. It actually uses gearing to show the precise locations of the planets, where the terminator of the sun is, the position of the stars (constellations) ... there's a flat model right there. I've never seen anyone with a globe on their wrist able to do the same thing.

You can pick this up in our flat earth merch store. Just kidding, it retails for over $95,000. I guess that's the price you pay for the truth.
https://www.chrono24.com/ulyssenardin/tellurium-j-kepler-limited-edition--id4236517.htm
I'm going to assume you're joking at this point, but that is a cool watch regardless.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: Toddler Thork on May 02, 2020, 11:29:52 PM
Why is that joking? It is everything you ever asked for regarding a model of the flat earth heavens, actually physically working in a scaled down model.

Here's another.
(https://www.ulysse-nardin.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/cd8a952086d939b4120a1402e9c836e9/W/a/Watches_950x950_1062-113_01.png)

This one is $75,000. You want to join the elites with a proper flat watch instead of believing the round earth joke? Want to show the Rothschilds and the Clintons that you know earth is flat? You're gonna need to drop some serious wonga on a watch.
https://www.ulysse-nardin.com/row_en/1062-113-01.html

I've always wanted a flat earth watch, but the prices are insane.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: ChrisTP on May 02, 2020, 11:32:52 PM
Because if you're not joking then you're just dense, and I don't want to assume the worst of the two options. Secret third option being you have stocks in watch companies.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: Toddler Thork on May 02, 2020, 11:35:04 PM
Because if you're not joking then you're just dense, and I don't want to assume the worst of the two options. Secret third option being you have stocks in watch companies.
You ask for a model. You get a model that isn't just the theoretical maths, but a practical precise and exquisite model of how the heavens could work if earth was at the centre and the universe span around it ... and you are still not happy. Doesn't get any more accurate than a $95,000 time piece!  ::)
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: Rama Set on May 03, 2020, 12:50:26 AM
There are interviews with the Navy Officer that commanded the squad that filmed the 2004 video. Very interesting stuff. He says that he has never seen something fly like the “tic tac” flies. Effectively instantaneous acceleration. No IR radiation emissions. If this isn’t an alien craft then someone on Earth has technology order of magnitudes more sophisticated than what we have seen so far.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on May 03, 2020, 09:16:35 AM
This is like saying "people over 8 feet tall don't exist". Why don't you ever see them in your town? Why are they only on TV? Surely its just green screen trickery, right? Why isn't there one in my local zoo? Why can't i meet a giant? ... and the answer is ... people over 8 feet tall are extremely rare. As are alien visits.

It’s nothing like that. I didn’t say I was expecting to see aliens walking down the high street all the time before I believe in them.
I believe in 8 foot tall people because while they are rare, there are very clear photos and film of them, there’s lots of people who have met them and taken photos of them and with them.
I don’t have to have met someone who is 8 feet tall to be pretty sure they exist unless there is some weird “very tall people exist” global conspiracy.

A better comparison is Bigfoot. Why are there only really blurry photos of something which is really hard to identify? If there were Bigfoots or Loch Ness monsters then surely there would be some really clear pictures of footage. I saw a YouTube video recently in which someone said it’s interesting how sightings of the Loch Ness monster have gone down since smartphones were invented, surely you’d now expect clear photos of it everywhere.

If you’re going with visits from aliens are rare then ok, that would explain the absence of clear evidence. But given the lack of clear evidence it’s impossible to confidently say we have aliens visiting us. One other thing I’ll add here is I think you’ll find that the “sightings” of UFOs just happen to coincide with the space race and us being able to launch things into orbit. That surely has to fire everyone’s collective imagination.

I don’t think your belief in the shape of the earth should hang on this although I agree that the existence of aliens does fit better with RE than most FE models where the earth is special and the universe small.

My gut feel is that while aliens may well exist “out there”, the out there is likely to be too far away for us to ever meet them or communicate with them. There is certainly no clear evidence that alien craft routinely visit us, much less interact with us.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on May 03, 2020, 01:59:42 PM
I want to believe in aliens as much as the next guy but it's starting to look like it's not going to happen. Our exoplanet research is starting to show that our cosmos is a cesspool. We've found that planets and stars can exist in a lot of nasty configurations that we didn't think about and only one tiny sliver of probabilities produced us.

Given the vastness of the universe, yeah, there's probably life out there. Given the data we've seen so far, I'm guessing the Drake equation will solve for about one civilization per galaxy. We're alone as we can be without actually being alone.

I don't believe these videos actually show extraterrestrials. It's probably something normal like scouts from a civilization deep under ground, maybe inter-dimensional bigfoots, or technology from the advanced civilization of Wakanda. It could be ghost whales or angel chariots.

It sucks that I'll never get to actually have sex with a hot alien chick but at least I don't have to worry about some creature humping my face and laying its eggs in my body.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: totallackey on May 04, 2020, 02:08:04 PM
I am of the opinion that references to "extraterrestrial," phenomena are more likely to be "extra dimensional."
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: BRrollin on May 04, 2020, 02:35:58 PM
I am of the opinion that references to "extraterrestrial," phenomena are more likely to be "extra dimensional."

Wouldn’t that be cool!

I wonder, what probability analysis are you using to justify “more likely?” How do we assign probabilities to extraterrestrials vs inter-dimensional travel?

Seems to me that claims of observations are more likely to be folks seeing weird shit that is just unusual, but has nothing to do with little green men.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: totallackey on May 04, 2020, 02:40:19 PM
I am of the opinion that references to "extraterrestrial," phenomena are more likely to be "extra dimensional."

Wouldn’t that be cool!

I wonder, what probability analysis are you using to justify “more likely?” How do we assign probabilities to extraterrestrials vs inter-dimensional travel?

Seems to me that claims of observations are more likely to be folks seeing weird shit that is just unusual, but has nothing to do with little green men.
I am just of the opinion that J. Allen Hynek was right.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: BRrollin on May 04, 2020, 03:24:18 PM
I am of the opinion that references to "extraterrestrial," phenomena are more likely to be "extra dimensional."

Wouldn’t that be cool!

I wonder, what probability analysis are you using to justify “more likely?” How do we assign probabilities to extraterrestrials vs inter-dimensional travel?

Seems to me that claims of observations are more likely to be folks seeing weird shit that is just unusual, but has nothing to do with little green men.
I am just of the opinion that J. Allen Hynek was right.

About which claim? Psychic surgery, nature elementals? Hynek made so many unfounded claims that he was ousted from the scientific community.

A shame really. He’s an example of a trained scientist who departed from the scientific method to pursue fame.

Why would a FEer, and hence proponent of the zetetic method, believe the non-zetetic ramblings of a disrepute?
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: totallackey on May 04, 2020, 04:06:37 PM
I am of the opinion that references to "extraterrestrial," phenomena are more likely to be "extra dimensional."

Wouldn’t that be cool!

I wonder, what probability analysis are you using to justify “more likely?” How do we assign probabilities to extraterrestrials vs inter-dimensional travel?

Seems to me that claims of observations are more likely to be folks seeing weird shit that is just unusual, but has nothing to do with little green men.
I am just of the opinion that J. Allen Hynek was right.

About which claim? Psychic surgery, nature elementals? Hynek made so many unfounded claims that he was ousted from the scientific community.

A shame really. He’s an example of a trained scientist who departed from the scientific method to pursue fame.

Why would a FEer, and hence proponent of the zetetic method, believe the non-zetetic ramblings of a disrepute?
Actually, he's an example of what happens when you disagree with the boss (who happens to be a dick and has a gun in their hand).
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: ChrisTP on May 04, 2020, 04:21:40 PM
I am of the opinion that references to "extraterrestrial," phenomena are more likely to be "extra dimensional."

Wouldn’t that be cool!

I wonder, what probability analysis are you using to justify “more likely?” How do we assign probabilities to extraterrestrials vs inter-dimensional travel?

Seems to me that claims of observations are more likely to be folks seeing weird shit that is just unusual, but has nothing to do with little green men.
I am just of the opinion that J. Allen Hynek was right.

About which claim? Psychic surgery, nature elementals? Hynek made so many unfounded claims that he was ousted from the scientific community.

A shame really. He’s an example of a trained scientist who departed from the scientific method to pursue fame.

Why would a FEer, and hence proponent of the zetetic method, believe the non-zetetic ramblings of a disrepute?
Actually, he's an example of what happens when you disagree with the boss (who happens to be a dick and has a gun in their hand).
Are you under the assumption the 'boss' is wrong to disagree with someone? If I were rejected from the scientific community for making claims that unicorns fart rainbows, the sheer fact that I was ousted makes me right?
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: BRrollin on May 04, 2020, 04:29:30 PM
I am of the opinion that references to "extraterrestrial," phenomena are more likely to be "extra dimensional."

Wouldn’t that be cool!

I wonder, what probability analysis are you using to justify “more likely?” How do we assign probabilities to extraterrestrials vs inter-dimensional travel?

Seems to me that claims of observations are more likely to be folks seeing weird shit that is just unusual, but has nothing to do with little green men.
I am just of the opinion that J. Allen Hynek was right.

About which claim? Psychic surgery, nature elementals? Hynek made so many unfounded claims that he was ousted from the scientific community.

A shame really. He’s an example of a trained scientist who departed from the scientific method to pursue fame.

Why would a FEer, and hence proponent of the zetetic method, believe the non-zetetic ramblings of a disrepute?
Actually, he's an example of what happens when you disagree with the boss (who happens to be a dick and has a gun in their hand).

Who is this boss you speak of? I have never heard of him.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: MetaTron on May 09, 2020, 02:25:21 AM
Im a bit of a self imposed expert on ufos, so here's my stig.

There mostly military aircraft and other large organizations.  They've pro ably been around for a really long time.  Specifically the discs that use electromagnetism to fly.  Because of the sensitive and maybe off nature of there missions (as appears to a lay man) they are not really talked about with the general public.   And of course there's other kinds of Ufos Or UAVs in the sky which many countries have.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: TomInAustin on June 24, 2020, 10:06:02 PM
I am of the opinion that references to "extraterrestrial," phenomena are more likely to be "extra dimensional."

I think extra-dimensional travel or even time travel is as reasonable an explanation due to the almost inconceivable distances involved in interstellar travel.


Plus that whole rockets not working in a vacuum thing.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: Fortuna on June 25, 2020, 10:33:08 AM
Looks like a multiple kill vehicle. Also, if it is an alien craft, I highly doubt there would be actual aliens in it. Alien civs probably send out probes to explore long before sending people, just like we do.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: Rama Set on June 25, 2020, 12:42:37 PM
Looks like a multiple kill vehicle. Also, if it is an alien craft, I highly doubt there would be actual aliens in it. Alien civs probably send out probes to explore long before sending people, just like we do.

Saying "Aliens would probably do...." seems a little silly.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: Fortuna on June 25, 2020, 06:45:39 PM
Looks like a multiple kill vehicle. Also, if it is an alien craft, I highly doubt there would be actual aliens in it. Alien civs probably send out probes to explore long before sending people, just like we do.

Saying "Aliens would probably do...." seems a little silly.

Nah. I doubt ETI will be wildly different from us, at least in their intent.
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: Ronin on July 30, 2020, 10:42:22 AM
Its funny, how they always release stuff like that, when people are the preoccupied, and least likely to pay attention to it. Like, if I were hiding something like aliens, because I thought people would freak out (like the war of the worlds broadcast), I would definitely try to let the information trickle out under the radar. That way, when you finally get ready for the big reveal, and everyone is like WTF, you are like... "But we been telling you about this stuff, you just never seemed that interested. remember when that pandemic thing happened, and that fox news broadcast, when they were like its giant glowing birds. They landed right in the open in Russia, and have been in the news world wide."
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: jack44556677 on September 26, 2020, 05:56:03 PM
I am an independent ufologist (I have many other hats), so I'll go ahead and answer these. Please AMA - i am a veritable font. 

Let me preface by saying that aliens only exist in fiction, and that they (little green men and the public association therewith) have been used by the MIC quite effectively over the past 70+ years to slander and discredit actual ufologists and researchers of many other subjects as well.  There are no aliens. There ARE ufo's (flying saucers and related craft - flying clandestine surveillance craft that do not utilize bernoulli's principle) and they are built by the only creature in the universe that builds flying machines.

@Toddler Thork

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What kind of a conspiracy website is this?

One that is actually on to something for a change!

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of the US using the Covid distraction

No, the footage was released (leaked, supposedly) decades ago and rereleased (semi-officially) well prior to covid (years).

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Does anyone have any suggestions as to what these things might be if not aliens?

Ufo's, and by that I mean flying saucers and related flying craft, are clandestine surveillance craft likely developed/certainly mass-produced first in the late 40's.  Today they are also used to run guns and drugs.

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Does anyone care that aliens seem to be visiting at will?

Yes, people steeped in propaganda and fiction who can no longer discern reality from fiction.  Propaganda of the "space age".  Bong rips and bad tv take their toll.  The CIA is undoubtedly quite proud of themselves.

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Have we all just accepted aliens a long time ago and this is just run of the mill alien business?

Many have, yes.  Twist most any secular "scientist"'s arm (a few beers won't hurt) and they'll admit it one way or another.  Even if they try to hide the indefensible stupidity of it through vernacular like "panspermia".

@ Rama Set

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If this isn’t an alien craft then someone on Earth has technology order of magnitudes more sophisticated than what we have seen so far.

Correct.  It's very much about wwii and compartmentalization.  Follow the money! The MIC does not share.

@Tron1002

Spot on. Good to see I'm not the only one around here!
Title: Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
Post by: TomInAustin on June 02, 2021, 04:23:21 PM
What kind of a conspiracy website is this?

I was patiently waiting for someone else to broach the delicate subject of the US using the Covid distraction to casually mention that there are aliens and release some footage of them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52457805

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what these things might be if not aliens?
Does anyone care that aliens seem to be visiting at will?
Have we all just accepted aliens a long time ago and this is just run of the mill alien business?

I know right...  This would have been front-page news every day if it happened 20 years ago.

No idea what they are, I had some sightings when I was young.   

Interstellar travelers? 
Time travelers? 
Interdimensional travelers?


All seem pretty far fetched but none more than the others.