so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« on: December 29, 2017, 09:17:09 PM »
I'm sure you've seen this:



where the guy zooms into saturn with one of those nifty cameras

does it just look spherical? or is it actually a sphere?
because wouldn't we also be a sphere?
wouldn't that make more sense?

this guy zooms into the "iss" flying very fast 'around' the earth


would you be saying, it's kind of making a circle around the flat plane? or is this more or less proof that it's flying around the earth? not in a circle above a flat plane?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 09:18:48 PM by derekconte »

Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2017, 11:53:55 PM »
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does it just look spherical? or is it actually a sphere?

It is too blurry. To me it does not look like a sphere. It looks like an atmospheric disturbance of some sort. It could very well be in the earth's atmosphere the same way clouds and the northern lights are (only higher).

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because wouldn't we also be a sphere?
wouldn't that make more sense?

Why? What makes you think the earth isn't something unique? I just don't understand how people can credulously conclude earth must be categorized as a planet or some other "space object" when it could be truly unique and distinct.

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this guy zooms into the "iss" flying very fast 'around' the earth

Why are you sure it's not a plane or some misidentified object? Or a balloon?

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would you be saying, it's kind of making a circle around the flat plane? or is this more or less proof that it's flying around the earth? not in a circle above a flat plane?

IF the iss is indeed a real "satellite and not a balloon hoax, it wouldn't matter. To answer your questions, it depends on the person and what he believes. I have no problem with a satellite spinning around the flat earth. I don't necessarily accept it, but it doesn't contradict flat earth.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 11:59:53 PM by Pickel B Gravel »
Hi y'all. I am a typical GENIUS girl who does NOT follow the masses and who does NOT blindly accept what is told to me without EVIDENCE. That being said, I don't believe in a lot of "facts" (the quotations mean they're NOT actual facts) including evolution, the holocaust, and the globular earth HYPOTHESIS.

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2017, 12:04:34 AM »
IF the iss is indeed a real "satellite and not a balloon hoax, it wouldn't matter. To answer your questions, it depends on the person and what he believes. I have no problem with a satellite spinning around the flat earth. I don't necessarily accept it, but it doesn't contradict flat earth.

I see this type of belief a lot on here. Satellites spinning above a flat Earth. I would love to harness that free energy that keeps them moving in a perpetual circle. (i.e. without some external force, those satellites are going to go straight)
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

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Offline AATW

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Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2018, 10:12:56 AM »
Why? What makes you think the earth isn't something unique? I just don't understand how people can credulously conclude earth must be categorized as a planet or some other "space object" when it could be truly unique and distinct.
Well, it could be. But what is your basis for thinking it is?
We have a model of the earth as a globe which orbits the sun as do the other planets. That model has come about through observations.
Over time that model has changed - from geocentric to heliocentric, for example, when retrograde motion of the other planets couldn't be made to fit with the geocentric model.
But we now have a model which seems to work well and matches our observations. We have GPS and Satellite TV, we have a global airline network and cruise line industry.
All these things demonstrably work. The flat earth model doesn't even have an agreed map. It can't explain sunset (as I said to Tom elsewhere, perspective doesn't cut it, on a flat plane perspective just makes things smaller, it doesn't make them disappear behind the horizon). Can the flat earth model explain the retrograde movement of the other planets? Or the fact different constellations are seen and move in opposite directions when viewed from the different hemispheres? Or the Coriolis effect which makes weather patterns rotate differently in each hemisphere?
The flat earth model doesn't work on any level. If a model doesn't work then you change it to one which does. And we have one which does.

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Why are you sure it's not a plane or some misidentified object? Or a balloon?
Come on. You are reaching here. NASA publish a website which tells you when you can see the ISS from your location. That is how people know how to photograph or film it.

And they have a live feed from it.



If they are trying to fool people then they are going out of their way to make it difficult for themselves.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2018, 08:13:12 PM »
And they have a live feed from it.
Oh, look, it's that fake live feed again.

Impressive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37778973
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2018, 08:23:19 PM »
And they have a live feed from it.
Oh, look, it's that fake live feed again.

Impressive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37778973
Happy to report your source gives us an actual live feed though. https://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/ESRS/HDEV/

Although sadly at least on my end it appears to be down as of the time of this posting.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2018, 08:36:40 PM »
Happy to report your source gives us an actual live feed though. https://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/ESRS/HDEV/
"Actual"? No, just officially approved.

Although sadly at least on my end it appears to be down as of the time of this posting.
How inconvenient.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume


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Offline AATW

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Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2018, 08:53:39 PM »
And they have a live feed from it.
Oh, look, it's that fake live feed again.

Impressive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37778973
Fair enough. I guess it's just the "live" part you are claiming is fake?
And as others have pointed out there are live feeds.
https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/iss_ustream.html
Not 24/7, admittedly.

And there's this site where you can find out when and where the ISS can be seen from earth:
https://spotthestation.nasa.gov/sightings/

If NASA are faking it then they really are going out of their way to make it hard for themselves by publishing something like this which is so easily testable.
I see you've ignored the rest of my post. Shouting "FAKE" at everything which proves you wrong is lazy.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2018, 09:17:57 PM »
Happy to report your source gives us an actual live feed though. https://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/ESRS/HDEV/
"Actual"? No, just officially approved.
Is there a difference in this context? Your claim (which you supported) was simply that the video posted above wasn't actually live. This one is actually live from a camera aboard the ISS. If you wish to dispute that claim you must provide evidence, as it surely looks like it is, and the documentation for it is right on that site.

Although sadly at least on my end it appears to be down as of the time of this posting.
How inconvenient.
Appears to be back up again. The page itself notes it switches cameras and will likely be black when the ISS is over the night side of the Earth.

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Offline xenotolerance

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Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2018, 10:50:44 PM »
A screenshot I just took of the live stream:

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2018, 11:54:18 PM »
Is there a difference in this context?
In a way, there is. One's inability to tell the difference between a YouTube cash grab (stealing NASA's video and broadcasting it as a livestream for cheap bucks) and a """""real""""" livestream is very revealing.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2018, 12:15:18 AM »
Is there a difference in this context?
In a way, there is. One's inability to tell the difference between a YouTube cash grab (stealing NASA's video and broadcasting it as a livestream for cheap bucks) and a """""real""""" livestream is very revealing.
Please stop taking what I'm saying out of context. You are absolutely terrible at it. What is the difference between 'actual live' broadcast and 'official' broadcast in relation to the broadcast given by the site you linked? Trying to be as specific with wording as I can here. This has nothing to do with the one your article debunks, but the official live broadcast from the ISS by NASA.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2018, 12:28:21 AM »
This has nothing to do with the one your article debunks, but the official live broadcast from the ISS by NASA.
Indeed, your comment is irrelevant to mine. I merely chastised AllAroundTheWorld for relying on information that's known to be false by even the most naïve of RE'ers.

It's not my fault that you chose to drag this conversation into repeatedly asking me whether I believe NASA live streams are genuine. You could have easily guessed the answer to that one, especially after I explicitly stated my position once.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 12:31:32 AM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

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Offline AATW

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Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2018, 09:55:10 AM »
Indeed, your comment is irrelevant to mine. I merely chastised AllAroundTheWorld for relying on information that's known to be false by even the most naïve of RE'ers.
Fairly reasonable, in haste I did post the wrong link. But that is not a crushing victory for Flat Earth because live streams do exist and the correct links have now been posted.
If NASA are faking all this then they are going out of their way to make it difficult for themselves by providing live streams and publishing details of when and where you can see the ISS as it orbits.
That is something which is easily testable. If the ISS doesn't exist they're making it very hard for themselves to keep up the pretence.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2018, 02:21:05 AM »
IF the iss is indeed a real "satellite and not a balloon hoax, it wouldn't matter. To answer your questions, it depends on the person and what he believes. I have no problem with a satellite spinning around the flat earth. I don't necessarily accept it, but it doesn't contradict flat earth.

I see this type of belief a lot on here. Satellites spinning above a flat Earth. I would love to harness that free energy that keeps them moving in a perpetual circle. (i.e. without some external force, those satellites are going to go straight)

There are more than one model of the flat earth. William Carpenter believed that the flat earth spun on it's axis. In that model, the satellites would not be moving but they would appear to move in a continuous circle around the north pole due to the spinning of the flat earth. In the traditional flat earth model, an explation for satellites would be that they move in a circular path around the north pole because they possess technology to move, or an unknown natural whirlwind-like force may be propelling the satellites.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 02:28:50 AM by Pickel B Gravel »
Hi y'all. I am a typical GENIUS girl who does NOT follow the masses and who does NOT blindly accept what is told to me without EVIDENCE. That being said, I don't believe in a lot of "facts" (the quotations mean they're NOT actual facts) including evolution, the holocaust, and the globular earth HYPOTHESIS.

Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2018, 03:26:10 AM »
Allaroundtheworld,

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Well, it could be. But what is your basis for thinking it is?

Because the earth as far as we know it IS different: life, water, oxygen, etc. Why shouldn't I conclude the earth isn't a planet?

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We have a model of the earth as a globe which orbits the sun as do the other planets. That model has come about through observations. 

If that is what you want to believe...

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Over time that model has changed - from geocentric to heliocentric, for example, when retrograde motion of the other planets couldn't be made to fit with the geocentric model.
But we now have a model which seems to work well and matches our observations.

It changed because one of the rivaling, competing theories (spherical earth) got the upper hand and obtained a monopoly in academia that it continues to have today.

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We have GPS and Satellite TV, we have a global airline network and cruise line industry.

And your point...?

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All these things demonstrably work.

But are they in actuality dependent on the idea of a round earth? And GPS isn't 100% reliable.

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The flat earth model doesn't even have an agreed map.

That's to be expected since flat earth theory hasn't had the kind of funding and support as round earth theory has had to progress. We're still in the developing phase.

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It can't explain sunset (as I said to Tom elsewhere, perspective doesn't cut it, on a flat plane perspective just makes things smaller, it doesn't make them disappear behind the horizon).

I hate to burst your bubble, but flat earth can and most certainly does explain sunsets with perspective. Yes, perspective does make more distant things smaller. But it also makes closer things bigger and causes an object in the sky to descend closer to the horizon the farther it is from the observer. The more distant away an object goes, the smaller it gets until it blends in with the surrounding environment. That goes for space too (the space between the horizon and Sun). Then for the Sun you must also factor in the clouds, fog, forests, buildings, and other obstacles that would obscure it the farther away it travels from the observer.

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Can the flat earth model explain the retrograde movement of the other planets? Or the fact different constellations are seen and move in opposite directions when viewed from the different hemispheres? Or the Coriolis effect which makes weather patterns rotate differently in each hemisphere?
The flat earth model doesn't work on any level. If a model doesn't work then you change it to one which does. And we have one which does.

Again, much of flat earth theory is still in the developing phase. Flat earth has not had the privilege to progress and advance its theories due to little funding andsuppirt. Round earth theory has had a head start for hundreds of years (and even before then) to progress.

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Come on. You are reaching here. NASA publish a website which tells you when you can see the ISS from your location. That is how people know how to photograph or film it.

And they couldn't do that with a balloon?

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And they have a live feed from it.

Which we don't know is authentic. But I guess because NASA says it's from space, then that's all the evidence you need, right?

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If they are trying to fool people then they are going out of their way to make it difficult for themselves.

I think they're trying to be as elaborate as possible. And I imagine public demand for such things like live feed forced them to meet the demands. Not doing so would have made people question "why not?"
Hi y'all. I am a typical GENIUS girl who does NOT follow the masses and who does NOT blindly accept what is told to me without EVIDENCE. That being said, I don't believe in a lot of "facts" (the quotations mean they're NOT actual facts) including evolution, the holocaust, and the globular earth HYPOTHESIS.

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Offline AATW

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Re: so this guy zooms into saturn & the ISS
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2018, 12:09:22 AM »
Planets are bodies which orbit a star. if you don't believe earth is doing that then you're right, it isn't a planet in your model. But then none of the other planets are really planets either unless in your model they do orbit the sun. If they do then I'd be interested to see the FE model of their orbits which match observations. If they don't orbit the sun in your model then I guess there are no such thing as planets at all. I wonder what you think they are.

All the planets are different, the inner ones are rocky, some of the outer ones are gas giants.
But other planets do have atmospheres and weather systems. They have night and day and seasons. They have volcanoes or evidence of past volcanic activity. They have mountains - Mars has Mons Olympus, the biggest mountain in the solar system. There is good evidence that liquid water did once flow on Mars and that ice may still be under the surface.
The conditions on other planets are not right for complex life but there is a lot of similarity. We might like to think of ourselves as special but, astronomically speaking, we really aren't.

The model of the earth as a globe coming about through observations is not a belief, it is a fact. There's the stick experiment of course, observations of the way the stars move and the way different stars are seen at different latitudes. The way ships disappeared over the horizon. These observations are consistent with the earth being a globe.
The fact of the earth being a globe was worked out thousands of years ago. The "ancients" had lots of other scientific ideas which didn't stand the test of time, subsequent ideas and observation superseded them. We no longer believe everything is made from earth, water, air and fire for example. But we do still believe that the earth is a globe because that model has consistently been shown to be correct. Over time slight adjustments have been made - we now know it is not a perfect sphere but bulges at the equator but at no point have serious scientists felt they needed to scrap the entire model and go to a flat earth model.
How do you think the discovery came about? You can't just say "If that's what you want to believe". If you disagree then what is your alternative.

And why do you think the spherical model obtained a monopoly? This is not like VHS vs BetaMax (not sure if that works in the US, in the UK they were two competing formats of video player back in the day). Both those systems worked, I've heard that BetaMax was actually technically superior but for whatever reason VHS was the one which became the standard. But when it comes to Round Earth vs Flat Earth, the Round Earth model works while the Flat Earth one doesn't.

Hence my point about GPS. There may be some glitches but, basically, it works. I was at work the other day, looked on my phone and I was where it thought I was. I went home and it got that location right too. I used it today when I needed to find something in an unfamiliar part of London. It's called the GLOBal Positioning System. There is a clue in the name. It uses 30 satellites to work out where you are. Satellite TV, as the name suggests, also uses satellites. These all have to be in geo-stationary orbit for this to work. If they're not orbiting a globe then what are they doing? How do they stay up? These things must work somehow. The airline industry plots routes using great circles round the globe as does the cruise line industry. These industries reliably get people from place to place. THEY clearly know where places are in relationship to each other and you lot can't even agree a map which works?
I must have missed the public campaign for a live feed from the ISS, I don't remember a clamour for one.

If you think you can explain a sunset on a flat earth with perspective then you're going to have to draw me a diagram of how that works. For photos like this to occur:



The sun has to be PHYSICALLY below the level of the clouds or the light has to bend so it looks like it is. I did an experiment to prove that and posted the proof in this thread
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6875.160

It is telling that no flat earther responded.

I can't even begin to imagine the complexity of trying to get a balloon which is the same shape as the supposed ISS to move in such a way to be visible in the exact locations and times their website says it will be and travelling at that speed. You think they can do all that but they can't get stuff into space?

As I said to Tom in another thread, all you lot have to do is take some observations of the sun or moon. If it is as close to the earth as you suppose then you can take observations from a few locations which you can agree the distances between. Do some triangulation and you can work out how far the sun or moon is. You asked in another thread why us round earthers don't just go to Antarctica to prove you lot wrong. As I pointed out in response, while a lot of people have now been to the South Pole it is still not something one can just do. The sort of triangulation I'm suggesting though should be within the skill set of some members of the flat earth society.
As I have come to expect from Tom when I ask a question he can't answer, he never responded.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"