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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11420 on: June 05, 2024, 08:59:45 PM »
Are you trying to tell me that the one thing causing Biden to get curbstomped in the polls is also the one thing you think he did well? Out of everything you could positively say about Biden "his economy hasn't done badly" might be just the most insane take I've ever read.

I don't live in the US so I've no real feel for how the economy is doing, but I've read some stuff which indicates the US economy is pretty strong right now. Although interestingly the perception is that it's doing poorly. There seems to be a gap between the perception and the reality
https://www.vox.com/politics/24094752/biden-trump-strong-economy-2024-inflation

Quote
Why are you so sure it wasn't rigged against him?

Because none of the "evidence" Trump presented stood up to any scrutiny.
If you're going make a claim like Trump did then you have to provide evidence and he couldn't. He spouted a load of baseless rhetoric on Twitter (before he got banned). Anyone can do that. But every time his claims were tested in court they failed. Every audit confirmed the initial results. There's just no credible evidence that the election was rigged against Trump.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11421 on: June 05, 2024, 09:44:56 PM »
Are you trying to tell me that the one thing causing Biden to get curbstomped in the polls is also the one thing you think he did well? Out of everything you could positively say about Biden "his economy hasn't done badly" might be just the most insane take I've ever read.

I don't live in the US so I've no real feel for how the economy is doing, but I've read some stuff which indicates the US economy is pretty strong right now. Although interestingly the perception is that it's doing poorly. There seems to be a gap between the perception and the reality
https://www.vox.com/politics/24094752/biden-trump-strong-economy-2024-inflation
I like to compare the perception I get from Americans with where I live and how that's going and my conclusion was that it was the same general feeling.  Prices go up, shrinkflation is prominent, wages... well, my wages go up but others don't.
So that, to me, tells me that whatever the issue is, it's not because of Biden.  I'm pretty sure it's the Russia/Ukraine war disrupting energy to Europe and Wheat from Ukraine.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Online honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11422 on: June 06, 2024, 02:07:05 AM »
Wow, hypocritical. Stormy Daniels retracting her claim that she slept with Trump doesn't stop you from disbelieving her.

Daniels didn't "retract" anything by saying she didn't sleep with Trump. She literally just made a lame joke about how their encounter didn't involve any sleeping:



I'm not going to waste any more time on the ridiculous Segura story. Anyone can claim anything they want about their life or their career on the Internet.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11423 on: June 06, 2024, 10:55:04 AM »
Wow, hypocritical. Stormy Daniels retracting her claim that she slept with Trump doesn't stop you from disbelieving her.

Daniels didn't "retract" anything by saying she didn't sleep with Trump.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180304035217/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/porn-star-stormy-daniels-says-affair-with-trump-never-happened/2018/01/30/d8d5fcea-0633-11e8-b48c-b07fea957bd5_story.html?utm_term=.8ee1c8cdd253





I'm not going to waste any more time on the ridiculous Segura story. Anyone can claim anything they want about their life or their career on the Internet.

Anyone can also make a false sex claim in an extortion attempt. The fact is that Tony Segura has not retracted his statements, has not been engaged in any known fraud, and is a far more credible source. He has a law degree and lives in Newport Beach like Michael Avenatti. It is reasonable that they are acquaintances. You have yet to produce evidence to disbelieve him.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2024, 11:33:26 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11424 on: June 06, 2024, 12:59:09 PM »
Unusually, Tom is actually right about her denial

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/07/stormy-daniels-trump-trial-statement/

Quote
“So you signed and released a statement that said, ‘I am not denying this affair because I was paid in hush money, I’m denying it because it never happened,’” Cooper asked. “That’s a lie?”

“Yes,” Daniels replied.

Cooper asked why she signed it. Daniels indicated that she was worried about legal repercussions. After all, we will note, she was paid $130,000 by Trump’s attorney Michael Cohen days before the 2016 election in exchange for a promise not to share the story of the alleged encounter.

...Asked under cross-examination why she denied the encounter previously, Daniels pointed to the nondisclosure agreement that she had been paid to sign.

So, actually, her denial is evidence of the payment to silence her.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Online Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11425 on: June 06, 2024, 02:33:03 PM »
I would not.  But Trump clearly did.

So let me get this straight, the trade war, that lowered our trade with China and increased tariffs, you don't like it, it was bad, but also you wouldn't have a problem with it? It seems more and more that your position is "I don't like Trump, he's a big meanie :(" and not based on any policy reality.

Don't need nuclear weapons like ICBMs, but a dirty bomb is effective in its own way.  And they know how to refine uranium.  I'm not sure they're too weak for war.  They just know they can't win against the US. 

A dirty bomb is not "nuclear technology" and also it's a Hollywood meme.

As opposed to the Taliban selling off girls for marriage THEN raping them legally. >_>
And the Taliban was ready, largely because Trump made a deal with them. 
And, of course, all the women who were no longer allowed to have a job or go to school.  Pretty sure they didn't support the taliban.  Not to mention the large amount of people who fled the country or tried to.  I'm sure they supported the government.  But keep looking at it with Trump tinted glasses.

I didn't say the Taliban is good. The Taliban is morally superior to the Afghani government that the US installed. The US really likes installing terrible governments, you pointed that out earlier with Iran.

So,if Trump wanted to do LESS buisness, why did he insist on doing more?

Did we actually do more business with China?

The Chinese Trade War ended with Trump DEMANDING and gettting (but they didn't follow through) China to have MORE business with America.
Saudi Arabia got weapons: https://www.forumarmstrade.org/resource-page---trump--saudi-arms-sales1.html
North Korea didn't get much except for some new sactions Trump put on Chineese shipping companies that go to NK being removed.  But we didn't do business with them anyway so can't do any less.
And nothing really changed under Trump with regards to Russia trade.  So... didn't do less there!

Can you name a dictator that Trump's actions and policy ended with the dictator doing LESS business with the US?

Let's see, does China and Russia ring any bells? You just admitted he reduced trade with China. Are you going to walk that back now? And Russia, Trump insisted that the EU stop relying on Russia for trade goods, and it worked to a slight extent. But let me guess, you think that's a bad thing now. We don't want to be too mean to Russia.

And that's cute how you think Putin was afraid of Trump.  Isn't the source for that particular rumor Trump himself?

Putin quite literally said he refused to invade Ukraine because Trump "didn't understand geopolitics". He waited until Biden entered office, as he knew Trump would "overreact" to the invasion. In much the same way you think Trump did something very bad when he had an Iranian general rightfully killed. Had Putin invaded Ukraine while Trump was president, Trump probably would have started ordering the deaths of Russian generals.

I don't live in the US so I've no real feel for how the economy is doing, but I've read some stuff which indicates the US economy is pretty strong right now. Although interestingly the perception is that it's doing poorly. There seems to be a gap between the perception and the reality
https://www.vox.com/politics/24094752/biden-trump-strong-economy-2024-inflation

Citing "the stock market is hitting all time highs!" while people in America are struggling with their grocery bills is precisely the kind of insanity I was making fun of you for earlier. Did you even read the article? "Unemployment is low, the fed rate is stable (at a high rate) and the stock market is hitting all time highs!" What in the good god does that have to do with the average person in a struggling economy? Nothing. It has nothing to do with the experience of the average person. The dollar is worth 15% less than it was just three years ago. Of fucking course the stock market is at an all-time-high!

Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to have media constantly present these "the economy is great, peasants, why are you so mad?" articles that are as disconnected from reality as you are? The average person in America can't give three shits about the stock market. The unemployment rate is so low because people are having to take multiple jobs just to not starve to death. The author of that article (and every other "the economy is great! why are you mad?) article should be fired from a cannon into the sun.

Because none of the "evidence" Trump presented stood up to any scrutiny.
If you're going make a claim like Trump did then you have to provide evidence and he couldn't. He spouted a load of baseless rhetoric on Twitter (before he got banned). Anyone can do that. But every time his claims were tested in court they failed. Every audit confirmed the initial results. There's just no credible evidence that the election was rigged against Trump.

It's almost like the lack of voter ID makes any evidence of voter fraud that much harder to track down, and yet one side is vehemently against the concept of introducing voter ID. Really makes me think.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2024, 02:48:57 PM by Rushy »

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11426 on: June 06, 2024, 05:32:12 PM »
Citing "the stock market is hitting all time highs!" while people in America are struggling with their grocery bills is precisely the kind of insanity I was making fun of you for earlier. Did you even read the article? "Unemployment is low, the fed rate is stable (at a high rate) and the stock market is hitting all time highs!" What in the good god does that have to do with the average person in a struggling economy?
But Trump used to boast about the stock market hitting record highs, low unemployment and GDP growth.
But I take the point that those things don't necessarily mean the average person is doing well.
I found this which may be more relevant:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/200463/us-poverty-rate-since-1990/

It indicates the poverty rate did fall significantly under Trump but I'd note that trend was established before he took office. It has risen under Biden but nowhere near to where it was 10 years ago. I know you've had an inflation spike, we have here too. My understanding of economics is shaky at best but isn't the whole Ukraine situation a factor there? That was raising food and fuel prices and was outside of Biden's control. It was exacerbated here by the utter madness of Lizz Truss's car crash time in Number 10, including an insane budget which announced about £40Bn of unfunded tax cuts for the rich and damn near crashed the whole economy.
And of course there's the hangover from Covid which is bound to have an effect.

Quote
It's almost like the lack of voter ID makes any evidence of voter fraud that much harder to track down, and yet one side is vehemently against the concept of introducing voter ID. Really makes me think.
But Trump said he had evidence. He said loads of dead people voted. Those people were found to be very much alive.
He said the voting machines were rigged but couldn't find any evidence which stood up to any scrutiny. Etc.

Trump whined about how he was ahead on the night and then suddenly it started going against him as if it was some plot against him. Actually what happened is what everyone knew would happen - in most states the on the day votes were counted first and the postal ones later. You may remember that it was in the middle of a bloody great pandemic. So Biden was encouraging people to vote by post, Trump was encouraging the opposite (I believe part of his basis for that was more vague claims that postal votes are rigged, again without any evidence). So of course the on the day vote swung towards Trump and the postal towards Biden, everyone knew that would happen before the day.
I believe there are some states where the postal vote is counted first and in those you saw the exact opposite effect where Biden was in front and then it swung towards Trump

The point is Trump kept on claiming there was mountains of evidence but every time that evidence was subject to any scrutiny it just crumbled.

I'm not convinced voter ID is solving a problem which actually exists. The argument against is that it disenfranchises people who don't have such ID. Over here they did a trial of it during the London Mayoral elections. As I left the polling station I overheard the end of a minor argument some lady was having with one of the staff. The lady hadn't brought her ID, having not got the memo that it was needed. I think she was told she could go get it and come back, she stomped off saying "Nah, a vote isn't that important". Sigh.
I don't have an issue with voter ID if the ID is provided free of charge - there was an option here to apply for an ID for free.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11427 on: June 06, 2024, 06:11:17 PM »
The economy hasn't done badly under Biden, has it?

https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-spending/heritage-explains/the-truth-about-joe-bidens-economy

Moore: "And so it's not a good economy. 82% of Americans, according to New York Times poll, and they're hardly on the right, Americans say the country's headed in the wrong direction. And it is. It is headed in the wrong direction. We've got the high gas prices. We have a situation now where I believe we're in a, what I call a soft recession, where the last two quarters have been negative, now only a little bit negative, but still that's officially in a recession."
Citing "the stock market is hitting all time highs!" while people in America are struggling with their grocery bills is precisely the kind of insanity I was making fun of you for earlier. Did you even read the article? "Unemployment is low, the fed rate is stable (at a high rate) and the stock market is hitting all time highs!" What in the good god does that have to do with the average person in a struggling economy?
But Trump used to boast about the stock market hitting record highs, low unemployment and GDP growth.
Aside from the fact you would have 0 clue about anything happening here in the US, people who brag about how well the economy is doing while gas and food prices are LOW, are actually entitled to brag as most of the country would agree with them.

Please just quit, you admitted troll.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2024, 06:22:45 PM by Action80 »
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11428 on: June 08, 2024, 06:01:55 PM »
Unusually, Tom is actually right about her denial

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/07/stormy-daniels-trump-trial-statement/

Quote
“So you signed and released a statement that said, ‘I am not denying this affair because I was paid in hush money, I’m denying it because it never happened,’” Cooper asked. “That’s a lie?”

“Yes,” Daniels replied.

Cooper asked why she signed it. Daniels indicated that she was worried about legal repercussions. After all, we will note, she was paid $130,000 by Trump’s attorney Michael Cohen days before the 2016 election in exchange for a promise not to share the story of the alleged encounter.

...Asked under cross-examination why she denied the encounter previously, Daniels pointed to the nondisclosure agreement that she had been paid to sign.

So, actually, her denial is evidence of the payment to silence her.

Actually in the statement it says that she denied it in 2006 and 2011, so it can't be true that the denial is solely in response to the $130K Michael Cohen payment in 2016.



I can only see the practice of going back and fourth on claims and denials as evidence of extortion.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2024, 04:16:42 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11429 on: June 08, 2024, 06:05:54 PM »
I have a question.

Now, I'm pretty pro-freedom as people go. The "be gay, do crime" kinda guy. I'm probably out of touch with Christian America. But...

Why does anyone care whether or not Trump slept with a porn actress? And, for what it's worth, why do we care if Bill Clinton had his cock sucked by Monica Lewinsky? What does marital fidelity/ability to get one's dick wet have to do with running a nation?

I genuinely don't get it. Please be kind.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

Re: Trump
« Reply #11430 on: June 08, 2024, 07:38:51 PM »
I have a question.

Now, I'm pretty pro-freedom as people go. The "be gay, do crime" kinda guy. I'm probably out of touch with Christian America. But...
I'd say (as an atheist) I'm out of touch with Christian American as well, but "..do crime"?  that seems pretty extreme.

Why does anyone care whether or not Trump slept with a porn actress? And, for what it's worth, why do we care if Bill Clinton had his cock sucked by Monica Lewinsky? What does marital fidelity/ability to get one's dick wet have to do with running a nation?

I genuinely don't get it. Please be kind.
With Clinton (or any politician) trust is a big thing.  People need to believe what their leaders say in order to be onboard with programs those leaders are trying to implement.  Folks are hesitant to trust someone who has broken vows to their partner, or that is my guess anyway. I'm mostly distrustful of politicians in general so it didn't really matter to me personally.  For Trump its a bit different.  He is charged with falsifying business records where they listed payments to hush up the story (which by itself is not illegal) as other things.  Had they listed it in the records as "hush money payment", he still would have had an image issue, but it would not have been illegal.

Again personally I usually don't trust politicians and Trump especially as he seems to say whatever he thinks will win points in the moment.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2024, 07:42:04 PM by ichoosereality »
The contents of the GPS NAV message is the time of transmission and the orbital location of the transmitter at that time. If the transmitters are not where they claim to be GPS would not work.  Since it does work the transmitters must in fact be in orbit, which means the earth is round.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11431 on: June 08, 2024, 09:36:04 PM »
but "..do crime"?  that seems pretty extreme.
You should try it, it's fun. Just don't get caught, it's not fun if you do.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2024, 09:38:57 PM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

Re: Trump
« Reply #11432 on: June 08, 2024, 10:31:23 PM »
but "..do crime"?  that seems pretty extreme.
You should try it, it's fun. Just don't get caught, it's not fun if you do.
No thanks, I try to never have my fun come at another's expense.
The contents of the GPS NAV message is the time of transmission and the orbital location of the transmitter at that time. If the transmitters are not where they claim to be GPS would not work.  Since it does work the transmitters must in fact be in orbit, which means the earth is round.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11433 on: June 10, 2024, 10:42:31 AM »
No thanks, I try to never have my fun come at another's expense.
Well, that's demonstrably false... but you're also the only person here to mention doing anything at someone else's expense.

It's fine if you're unfamiliar with the slogan. You're not expected to know everything at all times. But instead of just imagining what it means in your head, you could try educating yourself. As is often the case with you, fixing your knowledge gaps is a quick Google search away.

Choose reality, rather than choosing your own reality. :)
« Last Edit: June 10, 2024, 10:46:03 AM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11434 on: June 10, 2024, 06:11:03 PM »
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11435 on: June 10, 2024, 07:59:00 PM »
An outright case of reverse jury nullification if there ever was one:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2024/06/08/gop-demands-trump-mistrial-after-facebook-comment-from-jurors-cousin-sparks-conspiracy/

“professional s**tposter.”

Look, I know YOU get your facts from shit, but doesn't mean our legal system should.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Re: Trump
« Reply #11436 on: June 10, 2024, 08:39:18 PM »
No thanks, I try to never have my fun come at another's expense.
Well, that's demonstrably false...
OK, demonstrate it.

but you're also the only person here to mention doing anything at someone else's expense.
Perhaps you should consult a dictionary on the meaning of "crime".

It's fine if you're unfamiliar with the slogan. You're not expected to know everything at all times. But instead of just imagining what it means in your head, you could try educating yourself. As is often the case with you, fixing your knowledge gaps is a quick Google search away.
How was I supposed to know it was a slogan?    You could have easily copied the wikipedia link in your post: Be gay do crime, for those whose experience is different from your own, but you declined to do so.  I simply took you at your word, clearly a mistake.

I attempted to answer your post presuming you actually wanted an answer.  Clearly another mistake.   Apologies to the other members.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2024, 09:05:58 PM by ichoosereality »
The contents of the GPS NAV message is the time of transmission and the orbital location of the transmitter at that time. If the transmitters are not where they claim to be GPS would not work.  Since it does work the transmitters must in fact be in orbit, which means the earth is round.

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Online honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11437 on: June 11, 2024, 01:36:39 AM »
An outright case of reverse jury nullification if there ever was one:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2024/06/08/gop-demands-trump-mistrial-after-facebook-comment-from-jurors-cousin-sparks-conspiracy/

Is that really how it works? Some random guy on the Internet can hint that he knows the verdict ahead of time, and that's it, we need a mistrial now? Would this work for someone else? Hey guys, my brother is on Hunter Biden's jury, and he's already promised a conviction! MAGA forever!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 05:01:41 AM by honk »
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11438 on: June 11, 2024, 04:55:55 AM »
An outright case of reverse jury nullification if there ever was one:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2024/06/08/gop-demands-trump-mistrial-after-facebook-comment-from-jurors-cousin-sparks-conspiracy/

Is that really how it works? Some random guy on the Internet can hint that he knows the verdict ahead of time, and that's it, we need a mistrial now? Would this work for someone else? Hey guys, my brother is on Hunter Biden's jury, and he's already promised a conviction! MAGA forever!

Well MY father's, brother's, nephew's, cousin's, former roommate said they're on the trial and he's gonna be innocent!
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11439 on: June 11, 2024, 05:22:27 AM »
Perhaps one would want to look at the instructions given to the jury, in light of the Facebook post, and reevaluate.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.