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Offline timterroo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4200 on: July 31, 2019, 04:18:11 PM »
Trump Administration Plans To Allow Imports Of Some Prescription Drugs From Canada  https://n.pr/2Zlw8Sn

I was cautiously optimistic at the headline.  Then I read this:

Quote
. "This is the next important step in the Administration's work to end foreign freeloading and put American patients first."

What the hell does that even mean?  What foreign freeloaders? 

It also sounds more like importing drugs that are different from American drugs and not say... Cheaper insulin.

I assume "foreign freeloaders" refers to the fact that Canada (for instance) gets many drugs from American drug companies, and because they practice socialized medicine (hence there isn't a profit to be made), Canada gets them for much cheaper than we get them here in the US.

Why would you think that American pharma companies sell their drugs at a discount to us?  That would be silly.  We get cheaper drugs because we have access to generic versions of drugs.

Quote
It's a very backwards system, and it curtails the extreme need to rectify the American health industry.

The American system is silly.

I cannot (at the moment) find proof that America sells drugs to Canada, but regardless, American's pay far more for prescription drugs due to the monopoly that big pharma has on the industry. We have generic drugs too, but they are still extremely expensive. If you do not have insurance in the country you might as well live on the street because that is where you will likely end up if you get sick. Even for many who HAVE insurance, the cost of premiums still burns a hole in your pocket, and the benefits might not be that great - high deductibles, high co-pays, high everything... it sucks.

And don't think for even one second that Trump will do anything to solve this problem.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4201 on: July 31, 2019, 04:26:07 PM »
Trump Administration Plans To Allow Imports Of Some Prescription Drugs From Canada  https://n.pr/2Zlw8Sn

I was cautiously optimistic at the headline.  Then I read this:

Quote
. "This is the next important step in the Administration's work to end foreign freeloading and put American patients first."

What the hell does that even mean?  What foreign freeloaders? 

It also sounds more like importing drugs that are different from American drugs and not say... Cheaper insulin.

Read the article a bit, and it sounds like a lot of red tape to import drugs. I'm sure that in itself with inflate the cost of the "cheaper" drugs, and we'll end up with another failed project that costs us more money in the long run, and adds more bureaucracy to an already broken system.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #4202 on: July 31, 2019, 05:14:00 PM »
Trump Administration Plans To Allow Imports Of Some Prescription Drugs From Canada  https://n.pr/2Zlw8Sn

I was cautiously optimistic at the headline.  Then I read this:

Quote
. "This is the next important step in the Administration's work to end foreign freeloading and put American patients first."

What the hell does that even mean?  What foreign freeloaders? 

It also sounds more like importing drugs that are different from American drugs and not say... Cheaper insulin.

I assume "foreign freeloaders" refers to the fact that Canada (for instance) gets many drugs from American drug companies, and because they practice socialized medicine (hence there isn't a profit to be made), Canada gets them for much cheaper than we get them here in the US.

Why would you think that American pharma companies sell their drugs at a discount to us?  That would be silly.  We get cheaper drugs because we have access to generic versions of drugs.

Quote
It's a very backwards system, and it curtails the extreme need to rectify the American health industry.

The American system is silly.

I cannot (at the moment) find proof that America sells drugs to Canada, but regardless, American's pay far more for prescription drugs due to the monopoly that big pharma has on the industry. We have generic drugs too, but they are still extremely expensive. If you do not have insurance in the country you might as well live on the street because that is where you will likely end up if you get sick. Even for many who HAVE insurance, the cost of premiums still burns a hole in your pocket, and the benefits might not be that great - high deductibles, high co-pays, high everything... it sucks.

And don't think for even one second that Trump will do anything to solve this problem.

Sorry, I think we may have crossed wires.  I am Canadian.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4203 on: July 31, 2019, 06:02:52 PM »
Trump Administration Plans To Allow Imports Of Some Prescription Drugs From Canada  https://n.pr/2Zlw8Sn

I was cautiously optimistic at the headline.  Then I read this:

Quote
. "This is the next important step in the Administration's work to end foreign freeloading and put American patients first."

What the hell does that even mean?  What foreign freeloaders? 

It also sounds more like importing drugs that are different from American drugs and not say... Cheaper insulin.

I assume "foreign freeloaders" refers to the fact that Canada (for instance) gets many drugs from American drug companies, and because they practice socialized medicine (hence there isn't a profit to be made), Canada gets them for much cheaper than we get them here in the US.

Why would you think that American pharma companies sell their drugs at a discount to us?  That would be silly.  We get cheaper drugs because we have access to generic versions of drugs.

Quote
It's a very backwards system, and it curtails the extreme need to rectify the American health industry.

The American system is silly.

I cannot (at the moment) find proof that America sells drugs to Canada, but regardless, American's pay far more for prescription drugs due to the monopoly that big pharma has on the industry. We have generic drugs too, but they are still extremely expensive. If you do not have insurance in the country you might as well live on the street because that is where you will likely end up if you get sick. Even for many who HAVE insurance, the cost of premiums still burns a hole in your pocket, and the benefits might not be that great - high deductibles, high co-pays, high everything... it sucks.

And don't think for even one second that Trump will do anything to solve this problem.

Sorry, I think we may have crossed wires.  I am Canadian.

I gathered that by your use of pronouns.... So?
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #4204 on: July 31, 2019, 06:08:22 PM »

I gathered that by your use of pronouns.... So?

So it seems like you didn't respond to what I actually said.  Americans getting dicked by Pharma companies has nothing to do with Canada.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4205 on: July 31, 2019, 06:30:00 PM »

I gathered that by your use of pronouns.... So?

So it seems like you didn't respond to what I actually said.  Americans getting dicked by Pharma companies has nothing to do with Canada.

I admitted that I didn't have proof. I'll try to find it later when I have more time, but I thought America did sell drugs to Canada, and at a much reduced rate compared to what the 'American-end-user' spends for the same drugs. Since we established that there is no basis for that statement at the present time, I proceeded to engage in the remainder of the initial premise, which was the article about trump supposedly helping American's afford drugs by setting up some importing of drugs from Canada (so I guess it does actually still have to do with Canada)...

But you are right that the price America pays for drugs has absolutely nothing to do with Canada. What I am saying is that American's are getting screwed by American big pharma.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 06:43:15 PM by timterroo »
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #4206 on: August 01, 2019, 10:03:01 AM »
Introduces topic of pharmaceutical sales.
Response to pharmaceutical sales, blaming big pharma.
The American system is silly.
Very good Rama...

The American system is silly due to the fact people think government should fix everything.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4207 on: August 01, 2019, 11:57:29 AM »
Introduces topic of pharmaceutical sales.
Response to pharmaceutical sales, blaming big pharma.
The American system is silly.
Very good Rama...

The American system is silly due to the fact people think government should fix everything.

That is false. I assume you're talking specifically about the American health system, and it is silly and messed up due to capitalist corporations and the drive for profit - not government.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #4208 on: August 01, 2019, 12:13:26 PM »
Introduces topic of pharmaceutical sales.
Response to pharmaceutical sales, blaming big pharma.
The American system is silly.
Very good Rama...

The American system is silly due to the fact people think government should fix everything.

That is false. I assume you're talking specifically about the American health system, and it is silly and messed up due to capitalist corporations and the drive for profit - not government.

Yeah this. Exploiting people for profit when they have eminent medical concerns is not the free market working as intended.

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #4209 on: August 01, 2019, 12:40:26 PM »
Introduces topic of pharmaceutical sales.
Response to pharmaceutical sales, blaming big pharma.
The American system is silly.
Very good Rama...

The American system is silly due to the fact people think government should fix everything.

That is false. I assume you're talking specifically about the American health system, and it is silly and messed up due to capitalist corporations and the drive for profit - not government.
Perhaps the concept of government protectionism is a new concept to you (or maybe not).

But that is exactly why the costs in health care continue to rise.

Please note, I will not trot out sensationalized phrases like "shyrocketing," nor will I absolutely label things broke (except for the people who want to continue to demonize or decry things to promote fear).

The people shouting the loudest now are people who have very low self-management skills and look to others to fix their mess. Spoiled children.

I am old enough to remember house calls and when a doctor took some form of food (typically chickens or apples) as payment for services rendered.

I am also old enough to remember sitting in the doctor office smoking a cigarette while talking with my doctor about a POA for my kids' health, while he also enjoyed his cigarette.

Nobody had insurance because nobody needed it.

My insurance when I started my first real full-time job was absolutely private, absolutely free, and I paid for nothing, including prescriptions.

It was only when GOVERNMENT got involved that costs in health care started to rise, so please...

Spare the effort in describing my experience and that of so many other baby boomers here in the terrific USA as to what the true cause of rising health care costs actually is.

If people didn't spend their money like drunken sailors, and didn't rely on others to fix their messes, perhaps things would get better.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 01:13:15 PM by totallackey »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4210 on: August 01, 2019, 02:24:36 PM »
Ok, this should be good

What year did government get involved and with what law?  Lets plot your data.


Though I suspect part of the issue is people like you smoking and needing lots of medical care for your dumb ass selves.

"Hey, I'm just gonna smoke this thing that'll make me cough black shit.  What's the harm?"
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #4211 on: August 01, 2019, 02:32:21 PM »
Ok, this should be good

What year did government get involved and with what law?  Lets plot your data.


Though I suspect part of the issue is people like you smoking and needing lots of medical care for your dumb ass selves.

"Hey, I'm just gonna smoke this thing that'll make me cough black shit.  What's the harm?"
I'm still living, one.

My doctor, who was over 65 at the time, lived to be the ripe old age of 97.

You can research the year when government started to exercise more control over the issue of insurance and medical billing requirements. It would have been shortly after cousin Clinton from Arkansas was elected.

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Offline juner

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4212 on: August 01, 2019, 03:18:19 PM »
Reminder that this isn't a healthcare debate thread, regardless of how many personal anecdotes alleged boomers like totallackey have (which totally isn't a larp).

Discussing the topic of drug import/export from the Trump admin is fine. But lets not keep going down rabbit holes that have nothing to do with the orange god emperor.

You can make another thread if you want to discuss how objectively dysfunctional American healthcare is compared to other 1st world countries.

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #4213 on: August 01, 2019, 03:54:16 PM »
Ok, this should be good

What year did government get involved and with what law?  Lets plot your data.


Though I suspect part of the issue is people like you smoking and needing lots of medical care for your dumb ass selves.

"Hey, I'm just gonna smoke this thing that'll make me cough black shit.  What's the harm?"
I'm still living, one.

My doctor, who was over 65 at the time, lived to be the ripe old age of 97.

You can research the year when government started to exercise more control over the issue of insurance and medical billing requirements. It would have been shortly after cousin Clinton from Arkansas was elected.
Congrats.  My grandfather smoked alot as well, died at 77.  What's your point?

And according to my research, health care costs began jumping up after the 70s.  So... ya might wanna think again about the cause.
Like junker wrote, we should start a thread on this issue if you like.

But in keeping with maintaining the OP, Trump is not to blame (even according to orange man bad advocates) for the cost of prescription drugs in the USA.

Neither does he have an obligation or responsibility to fix them.

I can afford my health care and associated costs because I save for just such issues.

Most people, if you believe the news, do not.

That is not Trump's fault either.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4214 on: August 01, 2019, 04:52:41 PM »
Trump was unhappy the feds cut interest rate even though its to prolong the really good and slow recovery.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4215 on: August 01, 2019, 05:29:02 PM »


But in keeping with maintaining the OP, Trump is not to blame (even according to orange man bad advocates) for the cost of prescription drugs in the USA.

Neither does he have an obligation or responsibility to fix them.

...

Trump isn't to blame for how the healthcare got here, but he can, and certainly SHOULD, do something about it. He's the president after all, and isn't it his job to fight for the American people? We are Trump's boss, and he should be working for US. It is no secret that healthcare is destroying lower and middle class America.

So, actually Trump DOES have an obligation and a responsibility to fix this.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4216 on: August 01, 2019, 07:01:45 PM »
According to Trump, here is how he is currently helping the healthcare in America:

https://www.promiseskept.com/achievement/overview/healthcare/#

1. Directs the entire Administration to address drug addiction and opioid abuse.

2. Take steps to expand access to Association Health Plans

3. Removed CSR payments to insurance companies

4. Repealed Obama's insurance mandate - requiring individuals to have insurance.

So, in summary, Trump has released insurance companies to being able to compete with each other. He has enabled individuals to no longer have health insurance, and first and foremost, he has cracked down the illegal drug trade.

I suppose this is good. Although he left the the system in a bit of a pickle without requiring insurance companies to really to any damn thing, but allowing them to compete across state lines, and he has put millions into stopping an illegal drug market, which can never really be stopped - just moved and reorganized. Meanwhile, he has made it virtually impossible for patience to get access to opioids from legit doctors, which weren't the ones prescribing them to the crisis level that America has seen. The opioid crisis was a result of the underground establishments using crooked doctors and centralized pharmacies to run a "legal" drug market. These drug rings, btw, didn't go away. In fact, the end result of the crack down is that new, stronger drugs like fentanyl have made their ways in to fill the gap. This is why more and more are overdosing.... from illegal, black market fentanyl... not prescribed pills like hydrocodone.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4217 on: August 01, 2019, 08:12:36 PM »
These drug rings, btw, didn't go away. In fact, the end result of the crack down is that new, stronger drugs like fentanyl have made their ways in to fill the gap. This is why more and more are overdosing.... from illegal, black market fentanyl... not prescribed pills like hydrocodone.

Which is, apparently, China's fault.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #4218 on: August 02, 2019, 10:35:38 AM »


But in keeping with maintaining the OP, Trump is not to blame (even according to orange man bad advocates) for the cost of prescription drugs in the USA.

Neither does he have an obligation or responsibility to fix them.

...

Trump isn't to blame for how the healthcare got here, but he can, and certainly SHOULD, do something about it. He's the president after all, and isn't it his job to fight for the American people? We are Trump's boss, and he should be working for US. It is no secret that healthcare is destroying lower and middle class America.

So, actually Trump DOES have an obligation and a responsibility to fix this.
No, he doesn't.

All too often there is someone crying for the government to fix something when they have no legitimate reason to. Fighting for the American people does not include interfering in affairs not laid out in the US Constitution.

As far as your secret, you have a hard time convincing anyone that lower and middle class America is being destroyed, because that is the supposed audience this magical talking point is directed.

Trump's audience is not those people.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #4219 on: August 02, 2019, 12:53:15 PM »


But in keeping with maintaining the OP, Trump is not to blame (even according to orange man bad advocates) for the cost of prescription drugs in the USA.

Neither does he have an obligation or responsibility to fix them.

...

Trump isn't to blame for how the healthcare got here, but he can, and certainly SHOULD, do something about it. He's the president after all, and isn't it his job to fight for the American people? We are Trump's boss, and he should be working for US. It is no secret that healthcare is destroying lower and middle class America.

So, actually Trump DOES have an obligation and a responsibility to fix this.
No, he doesn't.

All too often there is someone crying for the government to fix something when they have no legitimate reason to. Fighting for the American people does not include interfering in affairs not laid out in the US Constitution.

As far as your secret, you have a hard time convincing anyone that lower and middle class America is being destroyed, because that is the supposed audience this magical talking point is directed.

Trump's audience is not those people.

Your rebuttal is astounding as usual.... "No, he doesn't." ... Guess you got me there. :o

When you say "that is the supposed audience....  Trump's audience is not those people", are you saying that Trump's audience is upper class America? Not arguing your point yet, just trying to get some clarification before you proceed to muddy up this discussion with more "nuh uhs" and "Your wrongs"....
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein