The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Community => Topic started by: Tom Bishop on August 22, 2017, 12:42:54 AM

Title: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 22, 2017, 12:42:54 AM
Just a friendly reminder to everyone who saw the eclipse today. Despite that the Sun is 4 million times larger than the Moon, the Sun and Moon appear to be the same size from earth and fit perfectly into each other during the Solar Eclipse. The official scientific reason for this is that it is a coincidence.

(http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/full/public/2017/08/21/eclipse_6.jpg)
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on August 22, 2017, 01:23:28 AM
Just a friendly reminder to everyone who saw the eclipse today. Despite that the sun's diameter is hundreds of times larger than moon and millions of miles distant, the sun and moon appear to be the same size from earth and fit perfectly into each other during the Solar Eclipse. The official scientific reason for this is that it is a coincidence.

(http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/full/public/2017/08/21/eclipse_6.jpg)

Yes, Tom told the truth! It is a coincidence that the sizes and distances match up as they do. Good thing we don't live in the FE model or else the Sun and Moon would collide and we would be goners for sure!
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Curious Squirrel on August 22, 2017, 01:55:11 AM
Just a friendly reminder to everyone who saw the eclipse today. Despite that the sun's diameter is hundreds of times larger than moon and millions of miles distant, the sun and moon appear to be the same size from earth and fit perfectly into each other during the Solar Eclipse. The official scientific reason for this is that it is a coincidence.

(http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/full/public/2017/08/21/eclipse_6.jpg)
I mean, why do they match up exactly for FE? Isn't it simply coincidence they're the same size? Actually, what is the origin of Earth and everything in the FE hypothesis? I don't recall seeing it before. Do you rely on a powerful being a la religion? Or something else?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 22, 2017, 04:04:34 AM
I mean, why do they match up exactly for FE? Isn't it simply coincidence they're the same size? Actually, what is the origin of Earth and everything in the FE hypothesis? I don't recall seeing it before. Do you rely on a powerful being a la religion? Or something else?

Under FE the explanation is that the sun and moon appear to be the same size because they are the same size. The Sun and Moon being the same size may be explained as the result of a physical process which limits the maximum size of a body, similar to how wind can limit the maximum size of a sand dune. Finding two large sand dunes at the same maximum size is no coincidence.

Consider rain drops. When drops are formed, they can only become so small else they are whisked and flitted away into the air and evaporate. They can also only get so large before they break up into multiple drops by air friction. Therefore we have rain drops which can only exist in a narrow size range. The largest of the raindrops are all the same size and the smallest of the rain drops are all the same size.

Examples of forces in nature which compel bodies to be of similar sizes are seen all around us, and while it is unknown exactly what forces the Sun and Moon are under, it is no coincidence that maximums exist in nature.

Under this Round Earth Theory scenerio, however, there is no other way to describe this phenomenon of two radically different bodies appearing as the same size other than it being a coincidence of cosmic proportions.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Boots on August 22, 2017, 04:51:01 AM
Is that why my thumb appears to be the same size when held the appropriate distance from my face?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Curious Squirrel on August 22, 2017, 05:04:23 AM
I mean, why do they match up exactly for FE? Isn't it simply coincidence they're the same size? Actually, what is the origin of Earth and everything in the FE hypothesis? I don't recall seeing it before. Do you rely on a powerful being a la religion? Or something else?

Under FE the explanation is that the sun and moon appear to be the same size because they are the same size. The Sun and Moon being the same size may be explained as the result of a physical process which limits the maximum size of a body, similar to how wind can limit the maximum size of a sand dune. Finding two large sand dunes at the same maximum size is no coincidence.

Consider rain drops. When drops are formed, they can only become so small else they are whisked and flitted away into the air and evaporate. They can also only get so large before they break up into multiple drops by air friction. Therefore we have rain drops which can only exist in a narrow size range. The largest of the raindrops are all the same size and the smallest of the rain drops are all the same size.

Examples of forces in nature which compel bodies to be of similar sizes are seen all around us, and while it is unknown exactly what forces the Sun and Moon are under, it is no coincidence that maximums exist in nature.

Under this Round Earth Theory scenerio, however, there is no other way to describe this phenomenon of two radically different bodies appearing as the same size other than it being a coincidence of cosmic proportions.
While interesting, and nothing I've ever heard before (got any math or examples where there's only a single force acting upon something that creates this requirement? Water can certainly form larger droplets when sheltered from wind resistance for example) how about the actual creation? I mean, if everything else is a sphere, that would dictate the Earth had to be made in a different manner would it not? It can't be obeying the same laws as every other object, so that seems to rule out the Big Bang Theory as how things formed. Is there not one right now? Or do you chalk it up to god/gods?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: TomInAustin on August 22, 2017, 02:22:41 PM
Just a friendly reminder to everyone who saw the eclipse today. Despite that the Sun is 4 million times larger than the Moon, the Sun and Moon appear to be the same size from earth and fit perfectly into each other during the Solar Eclipse. The official scientific reason for this is that it is a coincidence.

(http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/full/public/2017/08/21/eclipse_6.jpg)

You are finally getting it.  Good man
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Hmmm on August 22, 2017, 07:28:18 PM
Tom Bishop, i don't ever believe in coincidences! Everything in our reality always seems to have "multi-layered" premises.
On one layer, for example, the sun possibly gets (autonomous) maintenance, on other it could be a flaw in design, and the third could be, that the flaw is very intelligently and smartly used for other purposes of the designer.

It doesn't quite relate to the topic or answers, but the sun and the moon are definitely artificial and are in multitudes, deployed in various regions. I don't know who made or makes them regularly.

Just in case it might be interesting for someone(i hope someone will get insipiration from this for their artwork, book, plot of the game, fanfiction), i'm gonna retranslate a crazy theory hypothesis by ukrainian conspirologist Vyacheslav Kotlyarov (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0fbdkEwsR9RQRWPGHGONlA/playlists) about the sun, that more reads like a fantasy story:
There was a single sun on earth, just as in both flat earth and oblate spheroid earth theories( i personally assume and start to believe, right now there are many suns). It was larger than 32 miles in diameter, it was higher than 6000 miles up. And There was and is a bi-dome/shell/mantle/"egg"/"snowball"/"bubble"("in an egg, which is in a duck, which is in a hare, which is in an iron chest (sometimes the chest is crystal and/or gold), which is buried under a green oak tree, which is on the island of Buyan in the ocean") surrounding earth with bigger altitude relative from ground to sky.
(http://adjustyourperspective.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/the-egg-featured.jpg)
But the sun was replaced by, if they actually existed and exist now, malevolent highly-intelligent reptilian-draconian-insectoid hierarchical/hive consciousness alien(4th dimensional entity) bond at the time of beginning of human enslavement/"occupation" 217-317 years ago from now.
And after the enslavement there was a "reboot" of human history. And even today constant history rewrites are continuing via intelligent deep brainwashing from childhood to death (and will/intents) of humans and complete infiltration, for absolute control, in every aspects of human life of aliens(4th dimensional beings), hiding in interactive holographic human cloaks.

Brainwashing and alien infiltration in human life are the only parts, which i'm starting to believe in more and more! :o


The conspirologist Kotlyarov also relied his hypothesis on Korney Ivanovich Chukovsky' "Stolen sun":

Quote
"The sun in the sky walked
And for cloud ran,
Looked sainika in the window,
Became saince dark.

And magpies
White-sided
Galloped through the fields,
Cried the crane:
“Woe! Woe! Crocodile
The sun in the sky swallowed!

There was darkness,
Do not go outside the gate:
People on the street got -
Lost and gone.

Cries grey Sparrow:
“Come, honey, hurry!
Us without the sun it's a shame -
In the field of grain is not visible!”

Cry of Bunny
On the lawn:
Lost, the poor, the way,
Them to the house not to walk.

Only cancers eyed
On the earth in the darkness of the climb,
Yes in the ravine behind the mountain
The rabid wolves howl.

Early
Two sheep
Banged on the gate:
Tra-TA-TA, tra-TA-TA!

“Hey you, animals, going out,
Crocodile defeat,
To the greedy Crocodile
The sun in the sky captains!”

But shaggy afraid:
“Where we like to fight!
He and menacing, and toothy,
He told us the sun will not give up!”

And run them to Bear in the den:
“Come here you, Bear to the rescue.
Fully paw you, bum, suck,
Should the sun go fetch!”

But the Bears don't want to fight:
When he goes he goes, Bear, round swamp
He is crying, the Bear, and roars,
The cubs he calls from the swamp:

“Oh, where are you, mastopatie disappeared?
Who are you me old, threw?”

And in the swamp bear prowling around,
Cubs under the driftwood is looking for:
“Where are you, where are you gone?
Or in the ditch fell?
Or a stray dog
You broke the darkness?”

And all day she wanders through the forest,
But nowhere bears no finds.
Only black owls from the thicket
On her eyes teramat.

Then the angel went
And the Bear said:
“It's a shame the old blub -
You're not a hare and a Bear.
You podi, clumsy,
Crocodile escarpa,
Tear him to pieces,
Pluck the sun out of his mouth
And when it again
Will be in the sky to Shine
Kids your furry,
The cubs mastopatie,
Themselves to home resort:
“Hello, grandpa, here we are!”

And stood
Bear,
Growled
Bear,
And to the Great River
Ran
Bear.

And in the Big River
Crocodile
Lies,
And his teeth
No fire is lit -
Red sun,
The sun is stolen.

Came the Bear quietly,
He alkanol it lightly:
“I tell thee, villain,
Spit out the sun soon!
Not that he'll get it -
Half break, -
Are you ignorant, know
Our sun to steal!
Lost the whole world,
And him and grief no!”

But shameless laughs
So that the tree shakes:
“If you want,
And the moon I'll swallow it!”

Not stand,
Bear,
Roared
Bear,
And evil enemy
Bumped
Bear.

He rumpled his
And broke it:
“Give here
Our sun!”

Scared Crocodile,
Screamed, cried,
And out of his mouth
From toothy
The sun fell,
The sky was rolled out!

Ran through the bushes,
On birch leaves.

Hello, the sun was Golden!
Hello, the sky is blue!

Steel birds Twitter,
For insects to fly.
Became the Bunny
On the lawn
Tumbling and jumping.

And look: the cubs,
How funny kittens,
Straight to grandpa hairy,
Mastopatie, run:
"Hello, grandpa, here we are!"

Happy bunnies and squirrels,
Happy boys and girls
Hug and kiss clumsy:
"Well, thank you, grandpa, for the sun!"

The translation is almost unreadable without thorough efforts. >:(

Kotlyarov have stated that the Crocodile in the tale is a metaphore to reptilian/draconian beings on highly-technological (space)ships and the Bear is a metaphore to, not actually Russia at all, but ancient slavic people. So in that sense Vyacheslav is dogmatic, but he denies to devote himself to nationalism and patriotism, as he believes it's part of brainwashing in every country. All of the animals excluding Crocodile are metaphors to humans, and/or benevolent extraterrestrial/alien beings.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on August 22, 2017, 07:34:58 PM
Tom Bishop, i don't ever believe in coincidences! Everything in our reality always seems to have "multi-layered" premises.
On one layer, for example, the sun possibly gets (autonomous) maintenance, on other it could be a flaw in design, and the third could be, that the flaw is very intelligently and smartly used for other purposes of the designer.

It doesn't quite relate to the topic or answers, but the sun and the moon are definitely artificial and are in multitudes, deployed in various regions. I don't know who made, or makes them regularly.

Just in case it might be interesting for someone(i hope someone will get insipiration from this for their artwork), i'm gonna retranslate a crazy theory hypothesis by ukrainian conspirologist Vyacheslav Kotlyarov (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0fbdkEwsR9RQRWPGHGONlA/playlists) about the sun, that more reads like a fantasy story:
There was a single sun on earth, just as in both flat earth and oblate spheroid earth theories( i personally assume and start to believe, right now there are many suns). It was larger than 32 miles in diameter, it was higher than 6000 miles up. And There was and is a bi-dome/shell/mantle/"egg"/"snowball"/"bubble" surrounding earth with bigger altitude relative to ground.
But the sun was replaced by, if they actually existed and exist now, reptilian-draconian-insectoid hierarchical/hive consciousness alien(4th dimensional entities) bond at the time of beginning of human enslavement/"occupation" 200-300 years ago. And after the enslavement there was a "reboot" of human history. And even today constant history rewrites are happening via intelligent deep brainwashing from childhood to death of humans and complete infiltration in every aspects of human life of aliens(4th dimensional beings), hiding in interactive holographic human cloaks.


Brainwashing and aliens are the only parts, which i'm starting to believe in myself.

This wouldn't be nearly as interesting if there was actual evidence for any of this. (don't bother linking the half-baked videos you've already posted)
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Hmmm on August 22, 2017, 07:46:33 PM
This wouldn't be nearly as interesting if there was actual evidence for any of this. (don't bother linking the half-baked videos you've already posted)
It depends on a person. Some, religious or not, people( like me) will be amazed by this hypothesis and " half-baked" videos, and will start to question whether it's real or not. So as i wrote it before, i'm beginning to believe it's more to the truth than ever, but i'm still tiny bit, unnoticeably skeptical. 
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Curious Squirrel on August 22, 2017, 08:03:34 PM
This wouldn't be nearly as interesting if there was actual evidence for any of this. (don't bother linking the half-baked videos you've already posted)
It depends on a person. Some, religious or not, people( like me) will be amazed by this hypothesis and " half-baked" videos, and will start to question whether it's real or not. So as i wrote it before, i'm beginning to believe it's more to the truth than ever, but i'm still tiny bit, unnoticeably, skeptical.
There's probably a better thread to put this in, but I would think you would appreciate this some Hmmm. http://i.imgur.com/VHcCgPe.mp4

Also, it seems rather difficult to be 'unnoticeably skeptical' as that would imply your skepticism isn't enough to be noticeable no? My problem with your videos is they tend to have at least one gaping hole in them, or obviously wrong piece of information, that leaves me skeptical they could even be close to the mark with anything else.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on August 22, 2017, 08:04:16 PM
This wouldn't be nearly as interesting if there was actual evidence for any of this. (don't bother linking the half-baked videos you've already posted)
It depends on a person. Some, religious or not, people( like me) will be amazed by this hypothesis and " half-baked" videos, and will start to question whether it's real or not. So as i wrote it before, i'm beginning to believe it's more to the truth than ever, but i'm still tiny bit, unnoticeably, skeptical.

The video you posted of the sun supposedly rising from a body of water was so off the mark. Fake Suns? Why? How? Any evidence? Lizard people?? Again, any evidence? .enomai
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: JHelzer on August 22, 2017, 08:13:43 PM
If the sun is the same size as the moon, where does it get all it's energy from?
Why hasn't it already burned up all it's fuel?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: JHelzer on August 22, 2017, 09:20:37 PM
... the Sun and Moon appear to be the same size from earth and fit perfectly into each other during the Solar Eclipse. The official scientific reason for this is that it is a coincidence.

Coincidence is an interesting way of putting it.  Probability is the word I would choose.  Look at this...
Quote from: David Doran
At present, the Moon gets 3.8 cm further away from Earth every year, and it was much closer to Earth in prehistoric times.
https://www.spaceanswers.com/solar-system/will-the-moon-ever-leave-earths-orbit/ (https://www.spaceanswers.com/solar-system/will-the-moon-ever-leave-earths-orbit/)

For millions of years the moon has appeared to be larger than the sun and for millions of years into the future the moon will appear to be smaller than the sun.  At some point in the cosmic time line it must appear the same size.  That is not coincidence; that's probability.

Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: inquisitive on August 22, 2017, 09:35:28 PM
... the Sun and Moon appear to be the same size from earth and fit perfectly into each other during the Solar Eclipse. The official scientific reason for this is that it is a coincidence.

Coincidence is an interesting way of putting it.  Probability is the word I would choose.  Look at this...
Quote from: David Doran
At present, the Moon gets 3.8 cm further away from Earth every year, and it was much closer to Earth in prehistoric times.
https://www.spaceanswers.com/solar-system/will-the-moon-ever-leave-earths-orbit/ (https://www.spaceanswers.com/solar-system/will-the-moon-ever-leave-earths-orbit/)

For millions of years the moon has appeared to be larger than the sun and for millions of years into the future the moon will appear to be smaller than the sun.  At some point in the cosmic time line it must appear the same size.  That is not coincidence; that's probability.
Measurements disagree.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on August 22, 2017, 09:58:12 PM
... the Sun and Moon appear to be the same size from earth and fit perfectly into each other during the Solar Eclipse. The official scientific reason for this is that it is a coincidence.

Coincidence is an interesting way of putting it.  Probability is the word I would choose.  Look at this...
Quote from: David Doran
At present, the Moon gets 3.8 cm further away from Earth every year, and it was much closer to Earth in prehistoric times.
https://www.spaceanswers.com/solar-system/will-the-moon-ever-leave-earths-orbit/ (https://www.spaceanswers.com/solar-system/will-the-moon-ever-leave-earths-orbit/)

For millions of years the moon has appeared to be larger than the sun and for millions of years into the future the moon will appear to be smaller than the sun.  At some point in the cosmic time line it must appear the same size.  That is not coincidence; that's probability.
Measurements disagree.

What measurements? Helzer was 100% right on. The moon is moving away from the Earth and will continue to do so. (at a slow pace) That is why it used to look larger and will eventually look smaller.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: JHelzer on August 22, 2017, 10:28:12 PM
Here is a wikipedia quote on the same subject...
Quote
While gravitation causes acceleration and movement of the Earth's fluid oceans, gravitational coupling between the Moon and Earth's solid body is mostly elastic and plastic. The result is a further tidal effect of the Moon on the Earth that causes a bulge of the solid portion of the Earth nearest the Moon that acts as a torque in opposition to the Earth's rotation. This "drains" angular momentum and rotational kinetic energy from Earth's spin, slowing the Earth's rotation. That angular momentum, lost from the Earth, is transferred to the Moon in a process (confusingly known as tidal acceleration), which lifts the Moon into a higher orbit and results in its lower orbital speed about the Earth. Thus the distance between Earth and Moon is increasing, and the Earth's spin is slowing in reaction. Measurements from laser reflectors left during the Apollo missions (lunar ranging experiments) have found that the Moon's distance increases by 38 mm (1.5 in) per year (roughly the rate at which human fingernails grow). Atomic clocks also show that Earth's day lengthens by about 15 microseconds every year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon#Tidal_effects (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon#Tidal_effects)

Did you notice that the Moon moves away from Earth the same amount that human fingernails grow? What a coincidence!!!

Not really.  As the distance between the Moon and the Earth increases, the effect of tidal acceleration decreases so in millions of years the Moon's yearly increase in distance will be less then a human finger nail grows.  Dang it!  Probability again.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: model 29 on August 23, 2017, 02:11:13 AM
the Sun and Moon appear to be the same size from earth and fit perfectly into each other during the Solar Eclipse.
Except when it's an annular solar eclipse. 
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: JHelzer on August 23, 2017, 05:58:00 AM
Except when it's an annular solar eclipse.

Excellent point. 
(http://www.americaneclipse2017.org/wp-content/uploads/annular_solar_eclipse.png)

How can the annular solar eclipse be explained by a FE model where the Sun and Moon are the same size?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Hmmm on August 23, 2017, 07:56:55 AM
What if the solar eclipse is a part of a sun hologram, and the sun is definitely an interactive hologram!
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Mock on August 23, 2017, 10:21:26 AM
What if the solar eclipse is a part of a sun hologram, and the sun is definitely an interactive hologram!
What if we're all floating unconscious in a giant jar of magical peanut butter along with unicorns and leprechauns with 3.1415 fingers on each hand, and they're manipulating our brains Matrix-style using fairy dust and reptilian magic to make us experience the things we do, AND make annular solar eclipses possible?

Everyone can write up some bullshit that is impossible to directly disprove. It will still be bullshit, though.
And that's disregarding the fact that my bullshit is still even harder to disprove than yours...
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: rabinoz on August 23, 2017, 10:33:12 AM
What if the solar eclipse is a part of a sun hologram, and the sun is definitely an interactive hologram!
What if we're all floating unconscious in a giant jar of magical peanut butter along with unicorns and leprechauns with 3.1415 3.1416 fingers on each hand, and they're manipulating our brains Matrix-style using fairy dust and reptilian magic to make us experience the things we do, AND make annular solar eclipses possible?

Everyone can write up some bullshit that is impossible to directly disprove. It will still be bullshit, though.
And that's disregarding the fact that my bullshit is still even harder to disprove than yours...
Just fixing your finger count.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6ajdikzppfjx0a/Alice%20in%20Wonderland.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: juner on August 25, 2017, 11:49:45 PM
What if the solar eclipse is a part of a sun hologram, and the sun is definitely an interactive hologram!
What if we're all floating unconscious in a giant jar of magical peanut butter along with unicorns and leprechauns with 3.1415 3.1416 fingers on each hand, and they're manipulating our brains Matrix-style using fairy dust and reptilian magic to make us experience the things we do, AND make annular solar eclipses possible?

Everyone can write up some bullshit that is impossible to directly disprove. It will still be bullshit, though.
And that's disregarding the fact that my bullshit is still even harder to disprove than yours...
Just fixing your finger count.

Thanks for the usual low-content, rabinoz. Warned.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: 3DGeek on August 27, 2017, 11:25:42 AM
Just a friendly reminder to everyone who saw the eclipse today. Despite that the Sun is 4 million times larger than the Moon, the Sun and Moon appear to be the same size from earth and fit perfectly into each other during the Solar Eclipse. The official scientific reason for this is that it is a coincidence.

(http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/full/public/2017/08/21/eclipse_6.jpg)

Yeah - "coincidence".  Weird - but true.

We know that the moon was once closer to the Earth (like in the time of the Dinosaurs) and is gradually moving further away.   So in the deep past, the Moon was close enough to completely cover the sun and prevent the spectacular effects people saw last week - and in the distant future, it'll be too far away to cover the sun.

So the coincidence isn't the size of the moon - it's that we happen to be alive during the period when the position is exactly right.

This might seem like a small difference - but it's important.   Many people imagine that the perfection of the "fit" must mean that some "creator" intended it that way - but the Moon wasn't created to "fit" - it's just that the slowly increasing spiral of it's orbit just happened to make the fit perfect for modern humans.

We got lucky for once!

The underlying cause for the gradual increase in the moon's orbit is because the energy to produce the Earth's tides come from the kinetic energy of the moon - and as the moon is gradually slowed down by this, it's orbit gets gradually larger.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Ga_x2 on August 27, 2017, 12:36:23 PM
Also, it's not a perfect coincidence (see annular eclipses, which by the way are yet another problem for the mechanism proposed by the FES)
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 27, 2017, 03:56:56 PM
Also, it's not a perfect coincidence (see annular eclipses, which by the way are yet another problem for the mechanism proposed by the FES)
In what way are annular eclipses less coincidental than any other type of eclipse?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Rounder on August 27, 2017, 04:33:06 PM
Also, it's not a perfect coincidence (see annular eclipses, which by the way are yet another problem for the mechanism proposed by the FES)
In what way are annular eclipses less coincidental than any other type of eclipse?
The coincidence Tom and other FE mock is that Moon and Sun appear to be exactly the same size in the sky despite being vastly different sizes.  During the annular eclipse the moon does not appear to be exactly the same size, it appears to be a little smaller.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Ga_x2 on August 27, 2017, 04:37:12 PM
Also, it's not a perfect coincidence (see annular eclipses, which by the way are yet another problem for the mechanism proposed by the FES)
In what way are annular eclipses less coincidental than any other type of eclipse?
As Rounder said. Tom put it as if the relative sizes and distances were a perfect coincidence, too good to be true. They aren't, see annular eclipses.
By the way, how do you explain those?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Roundy on August 27, 2017, 04:50:08 PM
That's a good question about annular eclipses, but I'm certain Tom has figured this one out. He's the greatest FE mind of our generation. Tom?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 27, 2017, 07:35:30 PM
The coincidence Tom and other FE mock is that Moon and Sun appear to be exactly the same size in the sky despite being vastly different sizes.  During the annular eclipse the moon does not appear to be exactly the same size, it appears to be a little smaller.
Which is exactly what you'd expect as the altitude of the bodies relative to Earth's surface varies slightly. This is true of both models, but the "coincidence" element of RET remains unexplained. Ga_x2's claim was that it's no longer a coincidence because sometimes they don't appear identical, but rather near-identical. I fail to see how that's any less of a coincidence and would appreciate an explanation.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Boots on August 27, 2017, 08:01:10 PM
That's a good question about annular eclipses, but I'm certain Tom has figured this one out. He's the greatest FE mind of our generation. Tom?

If that's the case, the FE movement may be in trouble. lol

There are a lot of coincidence. It's a coincidence that the sun is close enough to provide the right amount of light and heat but not so close as to burn us up. There are many more. These would be coincidences under FET or GET. This proves nothing about the shape of the earth.

These coincidences may be an argument for a creator or some type of ID but not for the shape of the earth.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Ga_x2 on August 27, 2017, 09:10:47 PM
The coincidence Tom and other FE mock is that Moon and Sun appear to be exactly the same size in the sky despite being vastly different sizes.  During the annular eclipse the moon does not appear to be exactly the same size, it appears to be a little smaller.
Which is exactly what you'd expect as the altitude of the bodies relative to Earth's surface varies slightly. This is true of both models, but the "coincidence" element of RET remains unexplained. Ga_x2's claim was that it's no longer a coincidence because sometimes they don't appear identical, but rather near-identical. I fail to see how that's any less of a coincidence and would appreciate an explanation.
It's a coincidence to the extent that the moon happens to be able to cover the sun most of the times, yes. I was just pointing out that that's not one of those perfect clockwork things.
It escapes me though how that should be any less a coincidence for the flat earth. It also escapes me how it would work in a flat earth... given that the two bodies are said to be of the same size. Care to elaborate?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Curious Squirrel on August 27, 2017, 09:35:34 PM
That's a good question about annular eclipses, but I'm certain Tom has figured this one out. He's the greatest FE mind of our generation. Tom?

If that's the case, the FE movement may be in trouble. lol

There are a lot of coincidence. It's a coincidence that the sun is close enough to provide the right amount of light and heat but not so close as to burn us up. There are many more. These would be coincidences under FET or GET. This proves nothing about the shape of the earth.

These coincidences may be an argument for a creator or some type of ID but not for the shape of the earth.
Actually (at least according to Tom in another post) the FE hypothesis claims there's a maximum size anything can naturally be. Thus the moon/sun being the same size isn't a coincidence, but rather simply a factor of the universe. He pointed to raindrops only being within a relatively small band, as well as sand dunes only being so high and many of them will be that height.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Ga_x2 on August 27, 2017, 09:45:21 PM
Actually (at least according to Tom in another post) the FE hypothesis claims there's a maximum size anything can naturally be. Thus the moon/sun being the same size isn't a coincidence, but rather simply a factor of the universe. He pointed to raindrops only being within a relatively small band, as well as sand dunes only being so high and many of them will be that height.
Sorry I missed that one spectacularly ad hoc explanation... these threads go everywhere :D
Did he say anything about annular eclipses too?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Curious Squirrel on August 27, 2017, 09:58:55 PM
Actually (at least according to Tom in another post) the FE hypothesis claims there's a maximum size anything can naturally be. Thus the moon/sun being the same size isn't a coincidence, but rather simply a factor of the universe. He pointed to raindrops only being within a relatively small band, as well as sand dunes only being so high and many of them will be that height.
Sorry I missed that one spectacularly ad hoc explanation... these threads go everywhere :D
Did he say anything about annular eclipses too?
He did not mention anything. Upon a quick inspection the post appears to be his second in this thread. http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6772.msg123434#msg123434
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Ga_x2 on August 27, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
He did not mention anything. Upon a quick inspection the post appears to be his second in this thread. http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6772.msg123434#msg123434
Thank you!
It still looks like he's making stuff up to justify the coincidence after the fact, but at least it's a start :D
By the by... is there anything on the origin of the sun, the moon or the whole shebang somewhere? He makes it sound as if it is some sort of accretion, with those examples, but I haven't found anything in the wiki.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Curious Squirrel on August 27, 2017, 10:51:09 PM
He did not mention anything. Upon a quick inspection the post appears to be his second in this thread. http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6772.msg123434#msg123434
Thank you!
It still looks like he's making stuff up to justify the coincidence after the fact, but at least it's a start :D
By the by... is there anything on the origin of the sun, the moon or the whole shebang somewhere? He makes it sound as if it is some sort of accretion, with those examples, but I haven't found anything in the wiki.
I asked him after he said that, but he never got back to me. So no idea, because I haven't found anything either.
It WOULD make The Big Bang pretty hard to be the origins though, considering it would need a mechanism to make Earth not follow the laws/rules of everything else.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Ga_x2 on August 28, 2017, 05:35:34 AM
I asked him after he said that, but he never got back to me. So no idea, because I haven't found anything either.
It WOULD make The Big Bang pretty hard to be the origins though, considering it would need a mechanism to make Earth not follow the laws/rules of everything else.
Judging by the posts, as of right now I would pick:"special creation by a drunken god".
Kidding aside, it would help a lot if he could propose a formation mechanism.
A diagram of the movement of the bodies would also be really great. Any chance guys?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: 3DGeek on August 29, 2017, 01:02:00 PM
In what way are annular eclipses less coincidental than any other type of eclipse?

The Moon's orbit around the earth isn't a perfect circle.  Like most orbits, it's an ellipse.

So sometimes the moon is a bit further away, other times a bit closer.  This makes it's apparent size a little larger or smaller.

So when the moon gets between sun and earth, it might be a little smaller than usual or a little larger.

A "perfect" alignment of the moon's orbit produces that PERFECT eclipse that was seen over the USA a few days ago - but if the orbital alignments are not so great - the moon might be further away, and fail to COMPLETELY cover the sun.

The result is an "annular" eclipse - where the sun is visible as a ring (and "annulus") around the moon...which is a lot less impressive than a "total" eclipse.

These things are easily explained in RET - but much harder in FET.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: 3DGeek on August 29, 2017, 01:12:09 PM
That's a good question about annular eclipses, but I'm certain Tom has figured this one out. He's the greatest FE mind of our generation. Tom?

Yikes!  Really?  That's the best you guys have?  Wow!

Anyway - Tom believes that light travels in straight lines - but that the "laws of perspective" (which derive solely from the "straight lines" thing) are broken.  I don't know how he can keep this straight in his head - and he gave up posting to my thread on this important subject...but that's his problem.

The point being that if he can simultaneously admit and deny some rather fundamental fact like that, his "explanations" for things like eclipses cannot be trusted either.

Bottom line here is that if light DOES travel in straight lines then there are no sunsets - and if light DOESN'T travel in straight lines then there are no eclipses...well, not without magical fairies who can bend light on demand to order to make it do whatever the heck Tom wants it to do.

Nearly every day I find another phenomenon that nobody here can explain.   Tom typically attempts one or two answers then disappears off the thread once he's proven wrong.

Just look at the dozen or so threads I've started in the "Debates" forum...read the sequence of posts from me and from Tom - not a single one of them ended up with an FE "win".
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 29, 2017, 02:47:58 PM
Just look to the dozen or so threads I've started in the "Debates" forum...read the sequence of posts from me and from Tom - not a single one of them ended up with an FE "win".

We win when you present a positive claim, we ask for evidence for that claim, and you are unable to provide any.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on August 29, 2017, 03:33:30 PM
Just look to the dozen or so threads I've started in the "Debates" forum...read the sequence of posts from me and from Tom - not a single one of them ended up with an FE "win".

We win when you present a positive claim, we ask for evidence for that claim, and you are unable to provide any.
I claim the Earth is round.

Photographic proof from 1947. Vehicle - V2 rocket with a camera in the nose. https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_1298.html (https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_1298.html) This is not a NASA photo. It is just hosted on their site.

Don't like NASA - the Chinese have a probe orbiting the moon. Took this pic - https://www.universetoday.com/115750/chinas-lunar-test-spacecraft-takes-incredible-picture-of-earth-and-moon-together/ (https://www.universetoday.com/115750/chinas-lunar-test-spacecraft-takes-incredible-picture-of-earth-and-moon-together/)

Don't trust the Chinese, how about an American company? https://www.space.com/28539-spacex-earth-space-rocket-photos.html (https://www.space.com/28539-spacex-earth-space-rocket-photos.html)

I won't junk up the thread with a million other links by several organizations, but they are certainly freely available.

We have satellites that you can see with the naked eye crossing the sky at night. You can even photograph the ISS with some magnification.

We can see the Sun illuminate the bottoms of clouds during sunrise and sunset.

I could keep going, but my point is that the evidence is overwhelming. You simply refuse to accept any of it. Your wins are based on the desire to keep your reality intact, not any lack of evidence.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 29, 2017, 04:23:45 PM
You claim that military space agencies are honest. Where is the evidence for that claim? We can show plenty of reasons not to trust military.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on August 29, 2017, 05:23:43 PM
You claim that military space agencies are honest. Where is the evidence for that claim? We can show plenty of reasons not to trust military.

What, exactly, would everyone's motivation be to lie? Also, there are private firms launching into space. You asked for proof, I gave it. You can lead a horse to water....
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: TomInAustin on August 29, 2017, 07:07:13 PM
You claim that military space agencies are honest. Where is the evidence for that claim? We can show plenty of reasons not to trust military.

No one has ever produced a shred of credible evidence that NASA is fake or lying to you.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: J-Man on August 29, 2017, 08:06:55 PM
You claim that military space agencies are honest. Where is the evidence for that claim? We can show plenty of reasons not to trust military.

No one has ever produced a shred of credible evidence that NASA is fake or lying to you.

You're grinning ear to ear right. NASA lies more than it says anything truthful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNBebmu4UbY
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Curious Squirrel on August 29, 2017, 08:19:43 PM
You claim that military space agencies are honest. Where is the evidence for that claim? We can show plenty of reasons not to trust military.

No one has ever produced a shred of credible evidence that NASA is fake or lying to you.

You're grinning ear to ear right. NASA lies more than it says anything truthful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNBebmu4UbY
That was a pretty funny film, thanks for the watch. The guy plays a stereotypical conspiracy theorist to a 'T' and is very believable. Shame all he's doing is parroting someone else, would have loved to see him try some of his own material.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: J-Man on August 29, 2017, 08:42:52 PM
But the NASA content is all lies, total fakery and you globers try to justify it. You're hilarious. Thanks for the giggles y'all.

Does Tom in private ever get to play the bad guy or is he only Good Cop?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: TomInAustin on August 29, 2017, 09:02:24 PM
You claim that military space agencies are honest. Where is the evidence for that claim? We can show plenty of reasons not to trust military.

No one has ever produced a shred of credible evidence that NASA is fake or lying to you.

You're grinning ear to ear right. NASA lies more than it says anything truthful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNBebmu4UbY
That was a pretty funny film, thanks for the watch. The guy plays a stereotypical conspiracy theorist to a 'T' and is very believable. Shame all he's doing is parroting someone else, would have loved to see him try some of his own material.

Imagine a live video stream from orbit having glitches?  I am shocked.  I have google fiber and still get video artifacts on skype.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: CriticalThinker on August 30, 2017, 07:45:24 PM
You claim that military space agencies are honest. Where is the evidence for that claim? We can show plenty of reasons not to trust military.

SpaceX isn't a military operation.  It's a private company.  Are you claiming that all private enterprises are inherently untrustworthy as well?  Private companies must deliver a service or good to customers to stay in business.  Almost 90% fail in 5 years or less.  SpaceX was founded in 2002 and has delivered products to customers successfully enough to last beyond the 5 year mark.  How could they have faked all of their products and results without their customers filing a class action lawsuit?

Thank you,

CriticalThinker
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 30, 2017, 07:47:02 PM
You claim that military space agencies are honest. Where is the evidence for that claim? We can show plenty of reasons not to trust military.

SpaceX isn't a military operation.  It's a private company.  Are you claiming that all private enterprises are inherently untrustworthy as well?  Private companies must deliver a service or good to customers to stay in business.  Almost 90% fail in 5 years or less.  SpaceX was founded in 2002 and has delivered products to customers successfully enough to last beyond the 5 year mark.  How could they have faked all of their products and results without their customers filing a class action lawsuit?

Thank you,

CriticalThinker

The rockets are real and need to get to very high altitudes under FET, so I am not sure why you think the rockets would be fake and that SpaceX wouldn't need to deliver any working rockets.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on August 30, 2017, 08:23:40 PM
You claim that military space agencies are honest. Where is the evidence for that claim? We can show plenty of reasons not to trust military.

SpaceX isn't a military operation.  It's a private company.  Are you claiming that all private enterprises are inherently untrustworthy as well?  Private companies must deliver a service or good to customers to stay in business.  Almost 90% fail in 5 years or less.  SpaceX was founded in 2002 and has delivered products to customers successfully enough to last beyond the 5 year mark.  How could they have faked all of their products and results without their customers filing a class action lawsuit?

Thank you,

CriticalThinker

The rockets are real and need to get to very high altitudes under FET, so I am not sure why you think the rockets would be fake and that SpaceX wouldn't need to deliver any working rockets.

Because beyond just launching rockets into the sky, they are delivering payloads into space. SpaceX has done resupply missions to the ISS, which I'm guessing you think doesn't exist. (oddly enough, there is a website that allows you to see when the ISS will be passing over your location and you can actually go outside and see it at night. Not sure how they pull that one off) Other companies are deploying commercial satellites and cubesats. (small satellites, often made by students) If I pay a large sum of money, I want my satellite in orbit. The commercial companies building sats are spending many millions of dollars to launch these things. (think sat radio, for instance) If their service doesn't work, they are going to know it and be out huge sums of money. When does all of this start to make flat Earth theory just untenable? It is frankly a little bit ridiculous to think that all these private companies are faking their services so NASA can basically steal from them. (they pay taxes, NASA supposedly keeps the tax money given to it and fakes things in return) It makes NO sense.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 30, 2017, 08:25:04 PM
Because beyond just launching rockets into the sky, they are delivering payloads into space. SpaceX has done resupply missions to the ISS, which I'm guessing you think doesn't exist. (oddly enough, there is a website that allows you to see when the ISS will be passing over your location and you can actually go outside and see it at night. Not sure how they pull that one off) Other companies are deploying commercial satellites and cubesats. (small satellites, often made by students) If I pay a large sum of money, I want my satellite in orbit. The commercial companies building sats are spending many millions of dollars to launch these things. (think sat radio, for instance) If their service doesn't work, they are going to know it and be out huge sums of money. When does all of this start to make flat Earth theory just untenable? It is frankly a little bit ridiculous to think that all these private companies are faking their services so NASA can basically steal from them. (they pay taxes, NASA supposedly keeps the tax money given to it and fakes things in return) It makes NO sense.

SpaceX is just delivering a product. Who do you think is operating the control room which tells the rockets what to do?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on August 30, 2017, 08:38:01 PM
Because beyond just launching rockets into the sky, they are delivering payloads into space. SpaceX has done resupply missions to the ISS, which I'm guessing you think doesn't exist. (oddly enough, there is a website that allows you to see when the ISS will be passing over your location and you can actually go outside and see it at night. Not sure how they pull that one off) Other companies are deploying commercial satellites and cubesats. (small satellites, often made by students) If I pay a large sum of money, I want my satellite in orbit. The commercial companies building sats are spending many millions of dollars to launch these things. (think sat radio, for instance) If their service doesn't work, they are going to know it and be out huge sums of money. When does all of this start to make flat Earth theory just untenable? It is frankly a little bit ridiculous to think that all these private companies are faking their services so NASA can basically steal from them. (they pay taxes, NASA supposedly keeps the tax money given to it and fakes things in return) It makes NO sense.

SpaceX is just delivering a product. Who do you think is operating the control room which tells the rockets what to do?

You ALWAYS try to dance around things. SpaceX controls their own rockets. They lease launch facilities currently, but are building their own in Texas which is to be open next year. Also, they aren't the only players. NASA does NOT control all space launches. They don't even control MOST space launches.

One question, Tom - why would DirecTV spend millions on launching a satellite that their business depends on knowing it would fail and they couldn't provide their service??
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 30, 2017, 08:43:19 PM
You ALWAYS try to dance around things. SpaceX controls their own rockets. They lease launch facilities currently, but are building their own in Texas which is to be open next year. Also, they aren't the only players. NASA does NOT control all space launches. They don't even control MOST space launches.

One question, Tom - why would DirecTV spend millions on launching a satellite that their business depends on knowing it would fail and they couldn't provide their service??

SpaceX needs to follow the instructions of its customer, NASA. If NASA says that they wants ultimate control, then NASA gets ultimate control.

Why are you bringing up a contractor who has to follow the instructions of its boss as some kind of proof that the boss is innocent?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: J-Man on August 30, 2017, 08:50:09 PM
spacex is a spook company funded by taxpayers, just like the solar and tesla musk runs.

don't believe much spacex says
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on August 30, 2017, 08:54:14 PM
You ALWAYS try to dance around things. SpaceX controls their own rockets. They lease launch facilities currently, but are building their own in Texas which is to be open next year. Also, they aren't the only players. NASA does NOT control all space launches. They don't even control MOST space launches.

One question, Tom - why would DirecTV spend millions on launching a satellite that their business depends on knowing it would fail and they couldn't provide their service??

SpaceX needs to follow the instructions of its customer, NASA. If NASA says that they wants ultimate control, then NASA gets ultimate control.

Why are you bringing up a contractor who has to follow the instructions of its boss as some kind of proof that the boss is innocent?

OMG - Stick with me here, DirecTV can't operate without satellites!!! If they pay someone to launch their satellite into space, it has to get there or they have no service to offer their customers!!! There is no faking that. NASA can't fake DirecTV or Sirius radio, or any other commercial enterprise that relies on the satellites they build.

Now for the kicker, NASA didn't launch or control any of DirecTV's satellites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirecTV_satellite_fleet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirecTV_satellite_fleet) They used European launch vehicles! (Russian and French)

That is what a win looks like, Tom. Logic and backing proof. You say yourself that there is no conspiracy.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 30, 2017, 09:38:28 PM
OMG - Stick with me here, DirecTV can't operate without satellites!!! If they pay someone to launch their satellite into space, it has to get there or they have no service to offer their customers!!! There is no faking that. NASA can't fake DirecTV or Sirius radio, or any other commercial enterprise that relies on the satellites they build.

Now for the kicker, NASA didn't launch or control any of DirecTV's satellites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirecTV_satellite_fleet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirecTV_satellite_fleet) They used European launch vehicles! (Russian and French)

That is what a win looks like, Tom. Logic and backing proof. You say yourself that there is no conspiracy.

You don't think the Russian Space Agency would have ultimate control over the launches from their facilities?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on August 30, 2017, 09:47:53 PM
OMG - Stick with me here, DirecTV can't operate without satellites!!! If they pay someone to launch their satellite into space, it has to get there or they have no service to offer their customers!!! There is no faking that. NASA can't fake DirecTV or Sirius radio, or any other commercial enterprise that relies on the satellites they build.

Now for the kicker, NASA didn't launch or control any of DirecTV's satellites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirecTV_satellite_fleet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirecTV_satellite_fleet) They used European launch vehicles! (Russian and French)

That is what a win looks like, Tom. Logic and backing proof. You say yourself that there is no conspiracy.

You don't think the Russian Space Agency would have ultimate control over the launches from their facilities?

Irrelevant, DirecTV would not function of Russia blew up their satellite! Can you answer the question with a statement and not another meaningless question??
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 30, 2017, 09:55:22 PM
Irrelevant, DirecTV would not function of Russia blew up their satellite! Can you answer the question with a statement and not another meaningless question??

Obviously they have a plan in place. Have you seen all of the high altitude balloon experiment NASA and Co. have been constantly investigating to simulate the functionality of a satellite?

https://asd.gsfc.nasa.gov/balloon/
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2017/nasa-s-scientific-balloon-program-reaches-new-heights
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/wallops/2017/nasa-completes-balloon-technology-test-flight
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/wallops/2017/wallops-supports-cream-from-balloon-to-space-station-flight
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/wallops/2017/nasas-super-pressure-balloon-takes-flight-from-new-zealand/
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/balloons-on-ice-final-flight-launches-in-antarctica
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/nasa-funded-scientific-ballooners-wrap-up-fourth-and-final-campaign
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/nasa-funded-balloon-mission-begins-fourth-campaign
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/balloons-on-ice-launch-2-takes-flight-in-antarctica
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/wallops/2016/balloons-on-ice-nasa-launches-antarctica-scientific-balloon-campaign
https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/goddard/balloon-experimental-twin-telescope-for-infrared-interferometry-bettii
https://www.space.com/19030-nasa-telescope-christmas-balloon-launch.html
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on August 30, 2017, 10:14:40 PM
Irrelevant, DirecTV would not function of Russia blew up their satellite! Can you answer the question with a statement and not another meaningless question??

Obviously they have a plan in place. Have you seen all of the high altitude balloon experiment NASA and Co. have been doing to simulate the functionality of a satellite?

https://asd.gsfc.nasa.gov/balloon/

Tom, you lost. Take a guess how long satellite TV was been around. It started in the 1970s. 40 years ago, Tom. I'm old enough to remember riding around the Nevada desert and seeing many of the homes with a large satellite dish in their yards. They were too far from Las Vegas to receive a signal, so they had to receive their TV via satellite.

You yourself said there is no conspiracy and when you finally get backed into a corner, the conspiracy doesn't only involve NASA, now it involves private companies. You know, if DirecTV could be delivered via balloon, they would just do that. Much cheaper. No need to make up things called satellites, which don't even exist, right?

Without resorting to conspiracy, you can not prove me wrong. And as a follower of the Zetetic Method, you cannot in good faith say there is a conspiracy to trick you on your TV viewing options.

ISS Tracker so you can find out when it will be over your home. Go look at it. Come back and thank me for making your universe unfathomably larger and more beautiful.
http://www.isstracker.com/ (http://www.isstracker.com/)

History of satellite TV.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_television#Television_receive-only (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_television#Television_receive-only)

Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 30, 2017, 10:31:41 PM
Tom, you lost. Take a guess how long satellite TV was been around. It started in the 1970s.

Take a guess at how long high altitude dirigibles have been around.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on August 30, 2017, 10:50:33 PM
Tom, you lost. Take a guess how long satellite TV was been around. It started in the 1970s.

Take a guess at how long high altitude dirigibles have been around.

So are you actually asserting that for the last 40 years, all around the globe, in various countries, and unrelated companies, they ALL decided to lie about using blimps instead of satellites to...to....to...what would be the point of lying, Tom? To trick all the rubes out there that the Earth is round? That is seriously the LOGICAL argument you are going to try to make here? And not just lie about it, but create a false history of supposed sats that they used. THAT is your argument???

PROVE IT!
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 31, 2017, 04:07:10 AM
So are you actually asserting that for the last 40 years, all around the globe, in various countries, and unrelated companies, they ALL decided to lie about using blimps instead of satellites to...to....to...what would be the point of lying, Tom? To trick all the rubes out there that the Earth is round? That is seriously the LOGICAL argument you are going to try to make here? And not just lie about it, but create a false history of supposed sats that they used. THAT is your argument???

PROVE IT!

The private companies worked with NASA to get their technology correct and in place. What makes you think that the companies need to be "in" on anything? In many cases, such as with SpaceX, those private companies are working for NASA and doing its bidding.

There is a motive on the Wiki. Feel free to check it out.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on August 31, 2017, 05:35:43 AM
So are you actually asserting that for the last 40 years, all around the globe, in various countries, and unrelated companies, they ALL decided to lie about using blimps instead of satellites to...to....to...what would be the point of lying, Tom? To trick all the rubes out there that the Earth is round? That is seriously the LOGICAL argument you are going to try to make here? And not just lie about it, but create a false history of supposed sats that they used. THAT is your argument???

PROVE IT!

The private companies worked with NASA to get their technology correct and in place. What makes you think that the companies need to be "in" on anything? In many cases, such as with SpaceX, those private companies are working for NASA and doing its bidding.

There is a motive on the Wiki. Feel free to check it out.

I have given you plenty of valid sources, shown the history on this, and all you have left is the bogus NASA conspiracy that you said doesn't exist. Also, NASA didn't invent satellite TV. DirecTV doesn't work for or with NASA. Need to adjust who all is in on the conspiracy? You are clearly grasping at straws. For all the difficulty you give to people about the sources of data and pre-supposing a round world, you immediately fall back to baseless claims when backed into a corner. I know you'll never admit the Earth is round on here, but you and I both know it is. There are so many technologies that rely on satellites. The world simply would not be able to function as it does without them. I ask you, what would be so bad about admitting the world is round? What reason do you have to hold onto a world view that literally cannot exist?

As far as your wiki goes, it is useless and has been shown repeatedly to not be reliable by your own members.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: 3DGeek on August 31, 2017, 02:16:11 PM
So are you actually asserting that for the last 40 years, all around the globe, in various countries, and unrelated companies, they ALL decided to lie about using blimps instead of satellites to...to....to...what would be the point of lying, Tom? To trick all the rubes out there that the Earth is round? That is seriously the LOGICAL argument you are going to try to make here? And not just lie about it, but create a false history of supposed sats that they used. THAT is your argument???

PROVE IT!

The private companies worked with NASA to get their technology correct and in place. What makes you think that the companies need to be "in" on anything? In many cases, such as with SpaceX, those private companies are working for NASA and doing its bidding.

There is a motive on the Wiki. Feel free to check it out.

Well, how about we do just that.

It starts off with this fascinating statement:

"There is no Flat Earth Conspiracy. NASA is not hiding the shape of the earth from anyone. The purpose of NASA is not to 'hide the shape of the earth' or 'trick people into thinking it's round' or anything of the sort."

Well, that's certainly an interesting assertion.  But then it says:

"There is a Space Travel Conspiracy. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA's creation from the very start: To put ICBMs and other weapons into space (or at least appear to)."

OK...then it says...

"NASA's early rocket research is well documented to have been a complete failure, plagued by one disaster after another. At some point, perhaps after the Apollo 1 disaster, it was decided to fake the space program outright and use rockets which only needed to fly into the air until they disappeared from sight."

Aha!  But isn't there a problem here?  Apollo 1 caught fire in January 1967.  If that was when NASA decided to start faking things - then BEFORE 1967, it must all have been "real".

So the entire set of seven Mercury and ten Gemini manned missions - all of which were prior to '67 and were successful must have happened as advertised.

Then the Wiki says:

"NASA went from nearly every launch being a failure to a near flawless track record"

...but every one of the manned Mercury and Gemini missions went well.  Sure not absolutely flawlessly - but "within mission parameters".   The Apollo 1 disaster was a consequence of using pure oxygen in the crew compartment and lots of nylon in spacesuits, etc.  Those things were fixed by using only 60% oxygen during launch and ruthlessly replacing anything flammable from within the capsule - nylon was replaced with fiberglass and teflon.

With those (relatively simple) fixes - why wouldn't they continue?  Abandoning all of everything after such a minor setback - and especially abandoning satellite launches - seems like a crazy overreaction.

But from the Wiki - we can assume that those Mercury and Gemini missions were "real"?   They get the Tom Bishop/TFES stamp of approval?

That's rather interesting!

So where is the "evidence" that this abandonment of space flight happened?

I know you zetetics will only accept new facts with evidence - so there must be some kind of proof here.   Do enlighten us!
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: TomInAustin on August 31, 2017, 04:22:13 PM
So are you actually asserting that for the last 40 years, all around the globe, in various countries, and unrelated companies, they ALL decided to lie about using blimps instead of satellites to...to....to...what would be the point of lying, Tom? To trick all the rubes out there that the Earth is round? That is seriously the LOGICAL argument you are going to try to make here? And not just lie about it, but create a false history of supposed sats that they used. THAT is your argument???

PROVE IT!
There is a motive on the Wiki. Feel free to check it out.

There are maps on the Wiki yet you refuse to use them.  Your own Mod Junker laughed when I quoted the Davis Theory from the Wiki.  So please tell us which parts of the Wiki are valid and which ones we should ignore?
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 31, 2017, 11:29:25 PM
So are you actually asserting that for the last 40 years, all around the globe, in various countries, and unrelated companies, they ALL decided to lie about using blimps instead of satellites to...to....to...what would be the point of lying, Tom? To trick all the rubes out there that the Earth is round? That is seriously the LOGICAL argument you are going to try to make here? And not just lie about it, but create a false history of supposed sats that they used. THAT is your argument???

PROVE IT!

The private companies worked with NASA to get their technology correct and in place. What makes you think that the companies need to be "in" on anything? In many cases, such as with SpaceX, those private companies are working for NASA and doing its bidding.

There is a motive on the Wiki. Feel free to check it out.

Well, how about we do just that.

It starts off with this fascinating statement:

"There is no Flat Earth Conspiracy. NASA is not hiding the shape of the earth from anyone. The purpose of NASA is not to 'hide the shape of the earth' or 'trick people into thinking it's round' or anything of the sort."

Well, that's certainly an interesting assertion.  But then it says:

"There is a Space Travel Conspiracy. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA's creation from the very start: To put ICBMs and other weapons into space (or at least appear to)."

OK...then it says...

"NASA's early rocket research is well documented to have been a complete failure, plagued by one disaster after another. At some point, perhaps after the Apollo 1 disaster, it was decided to fake the space program outright and use rockets which only needed to fly into the air until they disappeared from sight."

Aha!  But isn't there a problem here?  Apollo 1 caught fire in January 1967.  If that was when NASA decided to start faking things - then BEFORE 1967, it must all have been "real".

So the entire set of seven Mercury and ten Gemini manned missions - all of which were prior to '67 and were successful must have happened as advertised.

Then the Wiki says:

"NASA went from nearly every launch being a failure to a near flawless track record"

...but every one of the manned Mercury and Gemini missions went well.  Sure not absolutely flawlessly - but "within mission parameters".   The Apollo 1 disaster was a consequence of using pure oxygen in the crew compartment and lots of nylon in spacesuits, etc.  Those things were fixed by using only 60% oxygen during launch and ruthlessly replacing anything flammable from within the capsule - nylon was replaced with fiberglass and teflon.

With those (relatively simple) fixes - why wouldn't they continue?  Abandoning all of everything after such a minor setback - and especially abandoning satellite launches - seems like a crazy overreaction.

But from the Wiki - we can assume that those Mercury and Gemini missions were "real"?   They get the Tom Bishop/TFES stamp of approval?

That's rather interesting!

So where is the "evidence" that this abandonment of space flight happened?

I know you zetetics will only accept new facts with evidence - so there must be some kind of proof here.   Do enlighten us!

The Wiki suggests that after Apollo 1 is when they may have started faking it "outright," as in they may have been faking some stuff before, forced into the matter to compete with Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin; but after the Apollo 1 disaster there was no longer a genuine effort to go into space. Also, look up the definition of the word "perhaps".
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: StinkyOne on September 01, 2017, 02:32:53 AM
I'll give Tom credit, I'm surprised he came back to this thread after losing the argument so badly. Honestly, I think he knows the Earth is round, but can't express that here so he argues little points hoping to frustrate us into letting it go.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: juner on September 01, 2017, 02:58:49 PM
I'll give Tom credit, I'm surprised he came back to this thread after losing the argument so badly. Honestly, I think he knows the Earth is round, but can't express that here so he argues little points hoping to frustrate us into letting it go.

Please refrain from low content posting in the upper fora. If you have nothing to actually add beyond your obsession with Tom Bishop, then there is no need to post. Warned.
Title: Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
Post by: 3DGeek on September 02, 2017, 07:18:16 PM
I'll give Tom credit, I'm surprised he came back to this thread after losing the argument so badly. Honestly, I think he knows the Earth is round, but can't express that here so he argues little points hoping to frustrate us into letting it go.

Please refrain from low content posting in the upper fora. If you have nothing to actually add beyond your obsession with Tom Bishop, then there is no need to post. Warned.

To be fair - the "obsession with Tom Bishop" comes about because he is (a) the only person here who is still actually debating the matter and (b) he's been held up at least a couple of times as being the smartest FE'er around.   So naturally, he has a debate-target painted on his forehead.

It would be really nice if some of the other "thousands" of claimed FE'ers would come along and support him - but not a single one seems both able and willing to step up and do that...which really speaks volumes about the strength of the tfes.organization and the power of the arguments presented in favor of the FE position.