Offline Robaroni

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Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #140 on: July 08, 2016, 08:00:49 PM »

What does reciprocity mean?

So you didn't bother reading anything. 
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Geeze! Quid pro quo. Is love a trade? I'll do this for you and you do that for me? How do you benefit when you're dead! How many times do i have to explain this!

You probably should stop.  Explaining your limited semantic ideas of reciprocity, when there is very obvious and clear information that contradicts must be embarrassing for you.

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And I'm way past any concern about spelling at this point.

Clearly.

Is compassionate Love a trade??
R

Offline Robaroni

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Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #141 on: July 08, 2016, 08:06:24 PM »
I read it!
You're not giving anything. Reciprocity altruism IS NOT LOVE!!!

R

Rama Set

Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #142 on: July 08, 2016, 08:15:48 PM »
You take a pill, does science know that it will make you well? No, science only can give the perceived reaction to the pill. Science can not establish well or good, benefit, benefit to society, etc.
Science can not give absolutes. Will the pill fix the problem? Science can only give the chemical change.


So in your opinion the small pox vaccine does not benefit the health of people? 


Is compassionate Love a trade??


Sure.  For one example, you feel less compassion for those who show little or no compassion to you.  If someone is more compassionate to you, you tend to be more likely to be compassionate to them.  This is why saving strangers is less common than saving family members.

I read it!
You're not giving anything. Reciprocity altruism IS NOT LOVE!!!

R

No one said reciprocity is love.  Ever.  Love is a way of engendering altruism.  It rewards altruism and makes it more desirable through releasing endorphins.  More altruism, means more chances for a group to survive.  Get it yet?*


*Of course not.

Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #143 on: July 08, 2016, 08:27:37 PM »
For your convenience, here is my edit:

Edit:

I would like to add, that once the Hoomans start grouping up into tribes, none of these traits has to be directly beneficial to the individual. They just have to be beneficial to the tribe as a whole. Sacrificial love is obviously not beneficial to the survival of the individual, but it can definitely be beneficial to the tribe as a whole. Therefore, the tribes with a "sacrificial love trait" tend to do better than the tribes without it, and the "sacrificial love trait" gets passed on by those tribes.

You're dead! there is no tribe, there is no science, there is no evolutionary benefit! You give your life for another individual, are you thinking about the benefit to the tribe? No!
R

That doesn't matter. The sacrificial trait helped the tribe survive, and that's all that matters for there to be evolutionary benefit. I repeat, there does not need to be an individual benefit for the trait to be promoted by evolution.

Your sickly child is dying and you can save him by giving your life. Are you seriously thinking about the group dynamic? Of course not! It matters completely.

This is completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter what the sacrificial person's motivation is. All that matters is the result: is sacrificing oneself beneficial to the tribe? If so, then evolution promotes that action. It does not matter if the person sacrificing himself understands the mechanism behind evolution. It does not matter why he decided to sacrifice himself.

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Science only deals with matter thus evolutionary science can only deal with matter. Science can not establish good, it's not possible, good is a relative term. There's no proof that your dying will be good for the group, you have no way of knowing, science has no way of knowing.

Once again, completely irrelevant. By "helping the tribe", "beneficial to the tribe", "good for the tribe", all I mean is that it increases the chances of the tribe's survival. All it is is statistics. Which tribe survives? If the tribe with the high preponderance of the sacrificial trait survives, then the sacrificial trait is promoted by evolution. All this mumbo jumbo about "science can not establish good" is completely beside the point.

Offline Robaroni

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Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #144 on: July 08, 2016, 08:30:11 PM »
You take a pill, does science know that it will make you well? No, science only can give the perceived reaction to the pill. Science can not establish well or good, benefit, benefit to society, etc.
Science can not give absolutes. Will the pill fix the problem? Science can only give the chemical change.


So in your opinion the small pox vaccine does not benefit the health of people? 


Is compassionate Love a trade??


Sure.  For one example, you feel less compassion for those who show little or no compassion to you.  If someone is more compassionate to you, you tend to be more likely to be compassionate to them.  This is why saving strangers is less common than saving family members.

I read it!
You're not giving anything. Reciprocity altruism IS NOT LOVE!!!

R

No one said reciprocity is love.  Ever.  Love is a way of engendering altruism.  It rewards altruism and makes it more desirable through releasing endorphins.  More altruism, means more chances for a group to survive.  Get it yet?*


*Of course not.

"So in your opinion the small pox vaccine does not benefit the health of people?"

It may very well but science can only give us the material change. I cant establish if it's good for you.

"Sure.  For one example, you feel less compassion for those who show little or no compassion to you.  If someone is more compassionate to you, you tend to be more likely to be compassionate to them.  This is why saving strangers is less common than saving family members."

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/154936-freedom-and-love-go-together-love-is-not-a-reaction

Here's a quote from the well know philospher Jiddu Krishnmurti:

“Freedom and love go together. Love is not a reaction. If I love you because you love me, that is mere trade, a thing to be bought in the market; it is not love. To love is not to ask anything in return, not even to feel that you are giving something- and it is only such love that can know freedom.”

To love is not asking anything in return. What have I been saying all along!

You keep trying to shoehorn reciprocal altruism in, give up the ghost! It's not love!

R

Rama Set

Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #145 on: July 08, 2016, 08:37:16 PM »
Why hit the quote button if you are not going to use the quote function?


"So in your opinion the small pox vaccine does not benefit the health of people?"

It may very well but science can only give us the material change. I cant establish if it's good for you.

Uhhh, you aren't sure if smallpox is good for you?  Do you know what it does?

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"Sure.  For one example, you feel less compassion for those who show little or no compassion to you.  If someone is more compassionate to you, you tend to be more likely to be compassionate to them.  This is why saving strangers is less common than saving family members."

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/154936-freedom-and-love-go-together-love-is-not-a-reaction

Here's a quote from the well know philospher Jiddu Krishnmurti:

“Freedom and love go together. Love is not a reaction. If I love you because you love me, that is mere trade, a thing to be bought in the market; it is not love. To love is not to ask anything in return, not even to feel that you are giving something- and it is only such love that can know freedom.”

To love is not asking anything in return. What have I been saying all along!

Oh wow!  You found someone who agrees with you!  Now, please tell me, aside from that, why Jiddu gets to decide what is love and what isn't?

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You keep trying to shoehorn reciprocal altruism in, give up the ghost! It's not love!


I have never said it was.  In fact, my last post to you directly addressed this:

No one said reciprocity is love.  Ever.  Love is a way of engendering altruism.  It rewards altruism and makes it more desirable through releasing endorphins.  More altruism, means more chances for a group to survive.  Get it yet?*


*Of course not.


Offline Robaroni

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Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #146 on: July 08, 2016, 08:45:02 PM »

"So in your opinion the small pox vaccine does not benefit the health of people?"

It may very well, but science can only give us the action/reaction not the benefit.

R

Offline Robaroni

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Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #147 on: July 08, 2016, 08:47:23 PM »

I have never said it was.  In fact, my last post to you directly addressed this:


If you agree reciprocal altruism is not love than how is it pertinent to the facts I posed to support my hypothesis?
R

Rama Set

Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #148 on: July 08, 2016, 08:51:55 PM »

If you agree reciprocal altruism is not love than how is it pertinent to the facts I posed to support my hypothesis?


Because:

 
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Love is a way of engendering altruism.  It rewards altruism and makes it more desirable through releasing endorphins.  More altruism, means more chances for a group to survive.  Get it yet?*


*Of course not.

You wanted an evolutionary justification for love and compassion.  Love engenders altruism, which increases the ability to survive.

QED


"So in your opinion the small pox vaccine does not benefit the health of people?"

It may very well, but science can only give us the action/reaction not the benefit.

R

Yes it can give you the benefit.  The benefit of life.



Offline Robaroni

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Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #149 on: July 08, 2016, 08:52:47 PM »


Oh wow!  You found someone who agrees with you!  Now, please tell me, aside from that, why Jiddu gets to decide what is love and what isn't?



https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-without-limits/201111/what-is-love-and-what-isnt

Deborah Anapol Ph.D.

" Love does not come with conditions, stipulations, addenda, or codes. Like the sun, love radiates independently of our fears and desires.

Love is inherently free. It cannot be bought, sold, or traded. "

R

Offline Robaroni

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Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #150 on: July 08, 2016, 09:02:01 PM »

If you agree reciprocal altruism is not love than how is it pertinent to the facts I posed to support my hypothesis?


Because:

 
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Love is a way of engendering altruism.  It rewards altruism and makes it more desirable through releasing endorphins.  More altruism, means more chances for a group to survive.  Get it yet?*

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Absolutely not! There is no group, you're dying to save a loved one!

You wanted an evolutionary justification for love and compassion.  Love engenders altruism, which increases the ability to survive.

QED
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You're dead! Not possible!

"So in your opinion the small pox vaccine does not benefit the health of people?"

It may very well, but science can only give us the action/reaction not the benefit.


Yes it can give you the benefit.  The benefit of life.
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It can't make that determination. You take a vaccine, science can only tell you the reaction.

R

Rama Set

Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #151 on: July 08, 2016, 09:15:18 PM »
Absolutely not! There is no group, you're dying to save a loved one!

The group continues on without the dead member.


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You're dead! Not possible!

It absolutely increases the groups ability to survive.


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It can't make that determination. You take a vaccine, science can only tell you the reaction.


This is just word games now. We both agree, I hope, that life is more beneficial than death?  If so, sacrificing your life to help you he group prosper is an effective tactic.

P.S. Thanks for using the quote function, next comes using it properly.

Offline Robaroni

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Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #152 on: July 08, 2016, 09:22:55 PM »
Absolutely not! There is no group, you're dying to save a loved one!

The group continues on without the dead member.


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You're dead! Not possible!

It absolutely increases the groups ability to survive.


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It can't make that determination. You take a vaccine, science can only tell you the reaction.


This is just word games now. We both agree, I hope, that life is more beneficial than death?  If so, sacrificing your life to help you he group prosper is an effective tactic.

P.S. Thanks for using the quote function, next comes using it properly.

I give up, I don't care anymore, I'm just pushing buttons at this point! We're down to basic stuff!
Forget Skinner, Maslow, etc. any Psychology 101 will tell you love is not a trade but you need proof!

And you still grappling with the fact that science can not establish good. Amazing!!

I'm done, you're right, there is no God and the earth is dead flat!!

R




Rama Set

Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #153 on: July 08, 2016, 09:32:44 PM »

I give up, I don't care anymore, I'm just pushing buttons at this point! We're down to basic stuff!
Forget Skinner, Maslow, etc. any Psychology 101 will tell you love is not a trade but you need proof!

Go ahead and cite them then!  Give us facts, just like you expect from others!  Reciprocate!

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And you still grappling with the fact that science can not establish good. Amazing!!

I understand exactly where you are coming from.  It actually does not matter.  What matters is that we agree that living is better than dying.  We can call it an underlying assumption and leave it at that.

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I'm done, you're right, there is no God

Maybe.  You certainly did nothing to prove he exists.

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and the earth is dead flat!!

Nope.

*

Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #154 on: July 12, 2016, 07:25:32 AM »
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.


Offline truth

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Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #156 on: July 13, 2016, 05:30:56 PM »
I am an atheist, and many flat-Earthers I have talked to get angry at me for it. What is wrong with Atheism? Do I REALLY need a religion to be moral? What If I don't agree with any religious moral principles (homosexuality, gender equality, etc.)?
Atheist - is Ath which stand for Authenticity and theist which stand for destroying authenticity.
Religion is Real- the reality lig-lag gion is the name for the world - reality delaying the world.

Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #157 on: July 13, 2016, 10:08:56 PM »
I am an atheist, and many flat-Earthers I have talked to get angry at me for it. What is wrong with Atheism? Do I REALLY need a religion to be moral? What If I don't agree with any religious moral principles (homosexuality, gender equality, etc.)?
Atheist - is Ath which stand for Authenticity and theist which stand for destroying authenticity.
Religion is Real- the reality lig-lag gion is the name for the world - reality delaying the world.

Ok, I am super curious now. Where do you get these definitions from?

Offline truth

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Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #158 on: July 13, 2016, 10:21:11 PM »
I am an atheist, and many flat-Earthers I have talked to get angry at me for it. What is wrong with Atheism? Do I REALLY need a religion to be moral? What If I don't agree with any religious moral principles (homosexuality, gender equality, etc.)?
Atheist - is Ath which stand for Authenticity and theist which stand for destroying authenticity.
Religion is Real- the reality lig-lag gion is the name for the world - reality delaying the world.

Ok, I am super curious now. Where do you get these definitions from?
look at the words - Ath-Auth
theist - I took from my language - st mean to divert, frankly this is enough for me because the Theis I don't what is it.

Re: What is the problem with Atheism?
« Reply #159 on: July 14, 2016, 01:13:13 AM »
I am an atheist, and many flat-Earthers I have talked to get angry at me for it. What is wrong with Atheism? Do I REALLY need a religion to be moral? What If I don't agree with any religious moral principles (homosexuality, gender equality, etc.)?
Atheist - is Ath which stand for Authenticity and theist which stand for destroying authenticity.
Religion is Real- the reality lig-lag gion is the name for the world - reality delaying the world.

Ok, I am super curious now. Where do you get these definitions from?
look at the words - Ath-Auth
theist - I took from my language - st mean to divert, frankly this is enough for me because the Theis I don't what is it.

What is your native language? Turkish by any chance? There are many words that have similar sounds in English. Many of them are not related.

If you are going to just guess at word meanings by their sound, you will get many of the meanings wrong. Both of your above definitions are incorrect.

Theist and atheism come from the Greek word for God, "Theos".

Religion possibly comes from the Latin "relegere" (to re-read) or religare (rely, reliance)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 01:16:56 AM by TotesNotReptilian »