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Messages - Dr David Thork

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1121
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Convince me
« on: March 26, 2019, 04:27:12 PM »
I like your #7, that’s fresh.

The rest are what we get here 50 times a day. So don’t get your hopes up about getting in depth replies.

The water in your bottle curves. That's called a meniscus. The sea is flat ... which is why it is called sea level. #7 only reasserts the fact earth is flat.

1122
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Political compass
« on: March 26, 2019, 03:41:21 PM »
What am I supposed to do with that response?

I've lined up a witty retort, I'm gonna flame you so hard that people in India will feel the heat of that burn and you deleted your account.  ???

I can't go supernova on you when you aren't around to cry about it afterwards. It ruins it for me.  >o<

1123
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Round Earth proof - comments?
« on: March 21, 2019, 02:00:00 PM »
???

But he aligns the sundials with MAGNETIC north. That's the offset. Magnetic north is not some point in the infinite distance. It is a place on earth. If I point my sundial in London to the same place as you point yours in California ... are those sundials aligned parallel, round earth or flat? The guy is in Canada for Pete's sake. That's going to give him quite an offset. He needs to make sure they are pointing to the same place.

Not true north. Not magnetic north. Not grid north. They all bend around to face a point. Pointing with respect to a place infinitely far away in the same direction. He could have line them both up with a star for an instantaneous money shot, for example.

Of course finding a star during the day is going to be a problem ... but its round earth's problem. Maybe you could line them up the night before ... and then do the experiment the next day.

But then I might challenge if the stars are really billions of miles away ... because round earth has the distance of the sun wrong too.

1124
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Round Earth proof - comments?
« on: March 20, 2019, 10:06:53 PM »
The experiment outlined in the OP was first done to show earth's size ASSUMING it is round.
No, it assumes a distant sun.
And you keep saying they needed to take the measurements at different times, that is you just not understanding the experiment that was done.
As has been pointed out, a local sun and a flat earth is a possible alternative explanation for the result - although that is you making an assumption about the shape of the earth - but if you do this experiment at 3 points then you'd expect different results on a FE or a Globe:

https://flatearth.ws/eratosthenes
Erastosthenes used two sticks and that's the experiment he failed to recreate in the video. If you read above I already picked out another assumption was distance to the sun.

What we can agree on is that this man has not proved the earth to be round and so Flat Earth gets to jog along for another day.

1125
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Round Earth proof - comments?
« on: March 20, 2019, 09:35:47 PM »
You see the sun is closer on flat earth models ... so we also get different shadow lengths ... exaggerated in my diagram above.

So you only want to talk about the second diagram and not what my post was actually about? I know you know that the shadow won't go down the middle of the base of the second sundial - because it's the reason why you said he botched the experiment - even though it absolutely should on a flat Earth.

Let's just simplify the experiment then. Two observers standing right next to that same straight road at either end. They both put sticks in the ground. When the shadow of the stick at the South Eastern end is perfectly parallel with the road, that observer calls up the second observer to ask if their shadow is parallel with the road. If the second observer says no, the Earth is not flat.

You know that the second observer will say no. But let's just ignore that, shall we?
Well then all you end up with is an argument about whether the road is flat or curved with the shape of the earth ... you are no further forward.

I'm not sure why this is hard for you. The experiment outlined in the OP was first done to show earth's size ASSUMING it is round. It is not to decide what shape earth is. To add insult to injury the guy makes the fundamental mistake of taking the exact same time instead of waiting for the sun to be in the same relative point of the sky for both sticks (local noon). In other words its the wrong experiment and he performs it wrong as well. Double bad-science.

1126
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Round Earth proof - comments?
« on: March 19, 2019, 05:21:13 PM »
Nope. You are wrong. Come on then Mr 33 posts. School me with a diagram.  ::)

OK, let's look at a flat Earth first. The road is at 127° azimuth. So on a flat Earth, I should be able to put the two sundials parallel to the road at the same distance to the road, and when the shadow goes exactly down the middle of the base of one (for example on 1st May, 2018 at 10:30am), it should go down the middle of the base of the other. And at that time, we should be able to get the length of the shadows and thus the elevation.

If the shadow doesn't go down the middle of the base of the second sundial, then FE theory must have some explanation for light bending horizontally. In other words, it must explain why if I'm looking directly at the sun at that time, the atmosphere to the left of the sun has a higher refractive index than the atmosphere to the right of the sun (if bending to the South in my diagram). Assuming this is observed consistently day after day in all seasons and weather conditions, this would be very problematic.

What do you think will be observed and if the shadow doesn't go down the middle of the base of the second sundial, what is your explanation?



Edit: Ha! I just realised I made a mistake and drew the experiment the way it would be at a location where I am in the Southern Hemisphere. You'll have to spin the sundials 180° for a Northern Hemisphere experiment. Same logic applies on a flat Earth though for the shadows on the sundials lining up.

Yeah, nice 2d diagram.

Now lets look at it from a side flat earth view.


You see the sun is closer on flat earth models ... so we also get different shadow lengths ... exaggerated in my diagram above.

1127
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Professional pilot interested in Flat Earth
« on: March 16, 2019, 10:50:07 PM »
Dude, its a waste of time. I'm telling ya. You prove the earth ain't flat and they ban you or warn you. lol
I will probably get a warning or get banned just for writing this. :)
You probably will get a warning, because you haven't added to the conversation. You just had a rant. And you know we have a place for ranting already.


As for the OP, we have a Lounge for introducing yourself. If you want to discuss anything specific, then YOU pick the topic. Pick the thing best proves your conviction and make a thread about just that. Don't be sticking 5 different 'proofs' in one thread. The thread will end up a mess if you do that.

1128
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Round Earth proof - comments?
« on: March 16, 2019, 01:23:53 PM »
Nope. You are wrong. Come on then Mr 33 posts. School me with a diagram.  ::)

1129
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Round Earth proof - comments?
« on: March 16, 2019, 11:53:00 AM »
Well 6 minutes is 1.5 degrees of longitude.

And the sun has moved 110km west in that time.

If we know the height of the sticks, the day, work out how far the top of the stick is from the ground ... its a whole lot of maths we might be able to find the answer. But my answer is short. This experiment was botched. Not waiting those 6 minutes screws up the results. Of course shadows get longer and shorter over the course of 6 minutes.

I really can’t figure out your thinking here. The measurement needs to be taken at the same time. If he waited 6 minutes, that would utterly defeat the whole point of the experiment! The shadow length of the second sundial would catch up with the first cancelling out the effect of curvature!

Warm regards
No.

We have too many variables. The sun isn't in the same place regarding the two sticks and the longitude and latitude differ. We have 3 unknowns.

But, if you take two places that are hundreds of miles different NORTH-SOUTH ... but the same longitude and local mean time, now you only have one variable ... latitude. Now you can isolate the shadow length to say the only thing different here is that latitude and you assume the sun to be infinitely far away ... any difference is due to curvature.

I mean FErs will still blow this objection away because we don't think the sun is infinitely far away. But Erastothingy wasn't interested in proving earth round. He already ASSUMED it was and was trying to get a sense of how big the earth was. His experiment is to find the circumference of earth ASSUMING it is round and ASSUMING the sun is infinitely far away. Why round earthers keep suggesting this proves earth round, I have no idea. The experiment was never designed to do that.

But as for the OPs video ... a total waste of time as far as science goes.

1130
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: [you] needs to stop
« on: March 16, 2019, 11:38:02 AM »
I would very much like Pete's suggestion.

I'm sorry, but after 5 years I just can't raise a smile when I see this any more. It has been done in every conceivable way ad nausium.

Also I deliberately let the tag render out. I didn't want nobbc. I wanted it to be the same annoying shouty experience for you reading this, where seemingly this thread yells out your name, even though it was never talking to you in the first place. Because that is how it feels for me scanning through threads I probably don't care much about only to have to slow down and check someone isn't actually replying to me after all.

1131
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Round Earth proof - comments?
« on: March 16, 2019, 02:58:41 AM »
Well 6 minutes is 1.5 degrees of longitude.

And the sun has moved 110km west in that time.

If we know the height of the sticks, the day, work out how far the top of the stick is from the ground ... its a whole lot of maths we might be able to find the answer. But my answer is short. This experiment was botched. Not waiting those 6 minutes screws up the results. Of course shadows get longer and shorter over the course of 6 minutes.

1132
Suggestions & Concerns / [you] needs to stop
« on: March 16, 2019, 02:28:49 AM »
This feature is getting very annoying. If it was used sparingly like the lemon on the old site or didn't effect people like transparent text that would be fine.

But every day there are several examples of a thread with Guest in it. And I wonder if more people aren't a bit sick of Guest.

A person doesn't know if they are being addressed or if it is the annoying Guest tag. So one has to click quote, read the code and then press back back. Its not funny any more, we've all seen it to death and like I say, used sparingly it would be fine, but it is spammed all over the site several times a day. Can we end this dull joke now?

1133
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Virgin Galactic
« on: March 16, 2019, 01:14:17 AM »
It doesn't matter whether you are round earth or flat earth, we are all hoping he doesn't make it back.

You totally just got crossed off the guest list at Sir Richard's island in the Bahamas.
His island is in the British Virgin Islands. You know, Virgin ... like his company.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Bahamas/@24.3680641,-80.4617189,6z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x88d69a3bb2480f3d:0x133eb4836ac779e5!8m2!3d25.03428!4d-77.39628

1134
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Fossil Fuels
« on: March 16, 2019, 01:11:42 AM »
This video is worth 8 mins of your life.



Why do oil companies hire geologists to find oil, and not archaeologists? Why do they look for rocks like olivine and garnet and not for dinosaur bones and ancient forests? The answer is on wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

You'd have to be some idiot to think oil comes from dinosaurs. Take a hampster, use any chemical process you like and see if you can squeeze one drop of oil out of it. But squeeze olivine and ... wow ... oil. Don't believe me ... check the chemistry ... its called the serpentinite mechanism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin#Serpentinite_mechanism

1135
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Round Earth proof - comments?
« on: March 16, 2019, 12:52:47 AM »
No, they are in different longitudes ... not time zones. So the LOCAL MEAN TIME ... ie time determined by position of the sun will be different. Not the exact same. Hence flaw in his calcs.

We are using shadows. We want solar time, not an arbitrarily geographical time zone time.

1136
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Virgin Galactic
« on: March 16, 2019, 12:44:56 AM »
It doesn't matter whether you are round earth or flat earth, we are all hoping he doesn't make it back.

1137
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Virgin Galactic
« on: March 15, 2019, 10:09:21 PM »
Or maybe you are just a fool ... and a fool and their money are soon parted.

1138
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Virgin Galactic
« on: March 15, 2019, 09:32:42 PM »
That $175m has been a 15 year interest free loan. He'll have to give those inflation ravaged deposits back at some point.

1139
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Round Earth proof - comments?
« on: March 14, 2019, 06:57:45 PM »
Why would the shadows be the same length on a flat earth?

The guy uses highway 33 in Canada.
Quote from: https://leaderpost.com/news/local-news/scientist-pedalling-140km-from-regina-to-prove-the-earth-is-round
Baute will cycle approximately 140km along Highway 33 from Regina to Stoughton

That road isn't north south.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/SK-33,+Saskatchewan,+Canada/@50.0646593,-104.3574711,9z/data=!4m8!1m2!2m1!1scanada+highway+33!3m4!1s0x531e59aad00d09e5:0xb3b578691b9eb1d5!8m2!3d50.0642098!4d-103.7971402

So it is a different local time of day at the two ends of the road. Would you expect a shadow at midday to be the same length as one at sunset?

At least when Eratosthenes did the experiment he took the LOCAL noon time for each location, not at the same generic time of day.
Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes
He knew that at local noon on the summer solstice in Syene (modern Aswan, Egypt), the Sun was directly overhead.

In the video at 6:23 you can see them counting down to take the exact same real time ... not the same local time.

And you will note from the map that Syene and Alexandria are roughly North South, certainly not 45 degrees off like this guy. (Eratosthenes's done his best being as he has to use the Nile ... travelling the Sahara back then was pretty dangerous and difficult.)


This guy doesn't understand the geometry or Eratosthenes experiment. He's just an idiot in cycling shorts. He has proved nothing.

1140
Flat Earth Community / Re: Why just Rowbotham?
« on: March 14, 2019, 06:24:48 PM »
and his experiments and observations still haven't been globally agreed upon.
Is this just a poor choice of words on your part or are you expecting us to explain why Rowbotham's ideas haven't been GLOBALLY agreed upon?

As to why is Rowbotham important ... because he is the guy who founded the modern flat earth society. Without him , this forum doesn't exist. Its like saying 'there were lots of prophets, why do you keep talking about Jesus?'. A Christian is going to look at you with the same disdain as I have for you now.

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