Re: Trump
« Reply #10740 on: September 01, 2023, 01:37:22 PM »
truth is a complete defense to defamation. i keep being told that there are veritable mountains of proof that the election was rigged. giuliani certainly has access to that so-called mountain. and sharing that evidence would take him off the hook for having to pay potentially millions of dollars in damages.

so once again, a member of trump's inner circle has a direct interest in proving to a court that their claims of election fraud are true -- are given the chance to do so -- and then do not even really try.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/30/politics/rudy-giuliani-georgia-election-workers/index.html
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10741 on: September 01, 2023, 01:47:26 PM »
Its even worse.
This case will likely be referenced for future cases against Trump.

"If the evidence existed, why didn't Mr. Giulliani produce it?"
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10742 on: September 01, 2023, 02:44:13 PM »
truth is a complete defense to defamation. i keep being told that there are veritable mountains of proof that the election was rigged. giuliani certainly has access to that so-called mountain. and sharing that evidence would take him off the hook for having to pay potentially millions of dollars in damages.

so once again, a member of trump's inner circle has a direct interest in proving to a court that their claims of election fraud are true -- are given the chance to do so -- and then do not even really try.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/30/politics/rudy-giuliani-georgia-election-workers/index.html

Believers will just latch onto lines like "didn’t adequately respond to subpoenas for information" and assume that Giuliani is being penalized by a biased court on a technicality. That's how they rationalize the dozens of failed lawsuits over the supposedly stolen election.
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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10743 on: September 02, 2023, 02:18:07 AM »
The Trumpians are just deluding themselves with this stupid shit. Their leaders know it's bullshit but it brings in the money.
All these years and these idiots still haven't produced one molecule of evidence to support their claims.


 MY Pillow Idiot - https://www.dakotanewsnow.com/2023/04/21/computer-forensics-expert-speaks-out-lindells-election-fraud-proof/

Giuliani - https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/08/rudy-giuliani-i-have-scientific-evidence-the-2020-election-was-stolen-from-donald-trump

Trump - https://www.npr.org/2023/08/18/1194559233/trump-cancels-press-conference-on-election-fraud-claims-citing-attorneys-advice

And of course, the original Gaia mother of freaks, the 'Kraken' lady - https://www.texastribune.org/2023/08/01/trump-federal-indictment-january-6-sidney-powell/



It's almost like they're just making it all up.
Oh wait, we have them on tape making it all up.

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If the world is round, it means that you’re just an idiot who believes stupid crap on the internet.

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Offline honk

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10746 on: September 27, 2023, 04:29:57 AM »


It looks bad but the box checked is "non-final disposition" so dunno what that means overall.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10747 on: September 27, 2023, 08:58:19 PM »
It looks bad but the box checked is "non-final disposition" so dunno what that means overall.

Mr. Kise also asked whether the ruling meant that Mr. Trump would have to sell assets including Trump Tower and 40 Wall Street, a downtown commercial property, or whether they could be managed by an independent receiver who the judge said would oversee the dissolution of the canceled companies.

Justice Engoron did not provide a clear response. After huddling with his law clerk, Allison Greenfield, he told Mr. Kise that he appreciated his concern and understood the question.

“I’m not prepared to issue a ruling right now, but we will take that up in various contexts I’m sure,” he said. He granted Mr. Kise’s request for 30 days to devise a plan for implementing the order.
I think that it means that they're not quite sure what it means overall either, but they'll figure something out eventually.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10748 on: September 28, 2023, 10:55:32 PM »
This joke of a partisan judgment claiming that there were inflated property values will be appealed and isn't going anywhere. For example, the judge in this case valued Mar-a-Lago at $18 Million.

https://nypost.com/2023/09/27/donald-trumps-mar-a-lago-worth-at-least-300m-sources/



This is what an $18 Million property in Palm Beach looks like:

« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 05:39:06 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10749 on: September 29, 2023, 09:32:37 PM »
This joke of a partisan judgment claiming that there were inflated property values will be appealed and isn't going anywhere. For example, the judge in this case valued Mar-a-Lago at $18 Million.
What a property is worth and what it would list for are not always the same.  If someone wants to pay $300 million for a property that Trump paid $10 million for, then that that's up to them.
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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10750 on: September 30, 2023, 10:38:37 PM »
The NYP article is deeply dishonest. The judge didn't personally "value" the estate. He went by what the tax assessor for the county had said:

https://www.newsweek.com/how-much-mar-lago-worth-donald-trump-florida-property-1830195

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-mar-a-lago-1-8-billion-own-company-said-it-was-too-high/

You don't get to lowball your estate's value for taxpaying purposes and then pump it up so you can swing it around as a super-valuable asset for business purposes. My guess is that Trump has been cheating on his taxes (again) and his scheme just backfired on him.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10751 on: October 01, 2023, 04:33:39 AM »
Yeah that makes sense.  If the assessment is based on profit value (basically) then its gonna be worth a lot less than if it was a mansion, which is a residential property. 

I admit, I did not think business and residential properties were assessed differently but seems like they are.

So Tom's posting of a house is worthless.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10752 on: October 03, 2023, 07:30:27 PM »
The banks always conduct appraisals of a loan applicant's assets in underwriting before they ever issue a loan. Try getting a home loan or mortgage sometime. The banks agreed with the valuation to issue the loan. Where is the fraud here?

In addition, none of the lenders are actually complaining about being defrauded.



« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 07:42:12 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10753 on: October 03, 2023, 08:50:03 PM »
Actually the lenders are victims because of the way that Trump overvalued his assets in order to get better interest rates, thereby denying the banks the potential income from the higher interest rates that he should have gotten.  Also, the taxpayers of New York are victims because he undervalued his properties for tax purposes, thereby denying the city and state of tax revenue.  Inflating your value to get better loan rates and deflating your value to pay less tax is fraud, pure and simple.

https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-podcast-never-before-seen-trump-tax-documents-show-major-inconsistencies
"Documents obtained by ProPublica show stark differences in how Donald Trump’s businesses reported some expenses, profits and occupancy figures for two Manhattan buildings, giving a lender different figures than they provided to New York City tax authorities. The discrepancies made the buildings appear more profitable to the lender — and less profitable to the officials who set the buildings’ property tax."
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10754 on: October 03, 2023, 09:46:44 PM »
The banks always conduct appraisals of a loan applicant's assets in underwriting before they ever issue a loan. Try getting a home loan or mortgage sometime. The banks agreed with the valuation to issue the loan. Where is the fraud here?
Yes and no. Because the area is a business, not residential, it follows different rules.  Look up the rules for using your business as collateral on a business loan rather than your home.  The value of the business (which is kinda irrelevant to the building) is what they see.  And if Trump, who holds all the financial data, gives them bad numbers, how will they know otherwise?   They agreed with the numbers Trump gave them because they felt he was honest. 

Quote
In addition, none of the lenders are actually complaining about being defrauded.



As far as you know.  Simply put, you and that guy there have no idea what is being discussed in the bank board rooms.  Could be they want to wait for the criminal case to conclude before going after him in a civil case since a guilty verdict would strengthen their civil case while a not-guilty would weaken it.

It could be its not worth the hassle.
It could be language in the contract that triggers privately.

We simply do not know and may never know.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10755 on: October 18, 2023, 03:02:02 AM »
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-calling-military-officials-dumbest-people-applauded-1835218

This wouldn't necessarily be a big deal if not for how regularly and openly conservatives fetishize venerating the military. They got mad when Obama saluted a soldier with the same hand that was holding a drink. They got mad when Biden (allegedly) looked at his watch during a military funeral. But Trump is now demonstrating his contempt for the military quite plainly, and just like they did the last dozen or so times he did something similar, they're completely ignoring it. It's such a blatant, obvious double standard. Disrespecting the military, or even just seeming to disrespect the military, is monstrous when it's a Democrat. But when it's Trump, it's not a big deal and anyone who complains is a triggered snowflake.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10756 on: October 18, 2023, 11:52:44 AM »
I don't see where the confusion is in that.

Obama < Military < Trump

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10757 on: October 18, 2023, 12:43:38 PM »
I don't see where the confusion is in that.

Obama < Military < Trump

Ssoooo... Trump is above the military?  Like smarter?  More combat ready?  More important?
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10758 on: October 18, 2023, 04:00:00 PM »
There are a number of qualities involved, but it boils down to a matter of respect in conservative circles. It's not purely about R or D. Trump was a more respected Commander-in-Chief than Obama was, and is on a level higher than the military in general. This is why he can get away with insulting the military.

Some Republicans have a dubious reputation in conservative circles, and it is doubtful that someone like George W. Bush would get the same treatment as Trump if he had made the same comments today. Bush possibly could have made such comments mid-term of his presidency, but certainly not now after his warmongering reputation with Dick Chaney has been developed.

Some Democrats have a decent enough reputation to which they could possibly get away with insulting the military with conservative circles. RFK could possibly  get away with it. If former president and democrat John F. Kennedy had made those comments he could definitely get away with it and be cheered for those comments in the same manner as Trump was.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2023, 07:33:17 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10759 on: October 19, 2023, 04:15:32 AM »
There are a number of qualities involved, but it boils down to a matter of respect in conservative circles. It's not purely about R or D. Trump was a more respected Commander-in-Chief than Obama was, and is on a level higher than the military in general. This is why he can get away with insulting the military.

Some Republicans have a dubious reputation in conservative circles, and it is doubtful that someone like George W. Bush would get the same treatment as Trump if he had made the same comments today. Bush possibly could have made such comments mid-term of his presidency, but certainly not now after his warmongering reputation with Dick Chaney has been developed.

Some Democrats have a decent enough reputation to which they could possibly get away with insulting the military with conservative circles. RFK could possibly  get away with it. If former president and democrat John F. Kennedy had made those comments he could definitely get away with it and be cheered for those comments in the same manner as Trump was.
So basically cult of personality overrides respect for others.

Ie. They love Trump more than they respect the military.

Kinda scary.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.