[rabinoz]

I am new here and i am 50% flatearther 50% round earther... i am currently doing my own research... Could one not just go to the Atlantic ocean set up a high powered telescope and look toward Africa?  or Pacific ocean towards Hawaii?

Even Globe supporters would say that you would never see that far as under even the best conditions, because of atmospheric absorption.
However, while the atmosphere absorbs visible light significantly, it is almost transparent to the radio wavelengths from "short wave" to 3 cm microwave.
So if the earth were flat microwave radio transmissions should certainly be received across large ocean distances (with large dishes)[1].

Rough plot of Earth's atmospheric transmittance (or opacity) to various wavelengths
of electromagnetic radiation. Microwaves are strongly absorbed  at wavelengths
shorter than about 1.5 cm (above 20 GHz) by water and other molecules in the air.

So, if the earth were flat, we certainly should (would) see these links across large bodies of water, and there would be no need for the huge expense of communication satellites. Of course for huge data rates, these have now been supplanted by undersea fibreoptic cables.

Mind you,I have a solution that will keep us both happy!
Make the northern hemisphere flat, but keep the southern hemisphere a "hemisphere". Then we'll both be happy!

I made an earlier post on this thread http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4311.msg90274#msg90274 claiming that the known measurements of the earth simply will not fit on a flat plane.

No-one seriously refutes it by questioning the measurements, yet all flat earthers just ignore it!

[1] Before the widespread use of fibreoptic cables, microwave links were commonly used for long distance communication links. The limiting factor on range is (you guessed it) the curvature of the earth. There are some links with around 200 km range, but the antennae are mounted on mountains of say 2,000 m.
see: http://blog.aviatnetworks.com/2011/05/04/the-worlds-longest-all-ip-microwave-link/.

You would really think that TFES would tell them that the earth is really flat! 

[Dionysios]

I find Mark Sargent's style and presentation the best and most convincing of the flat earth youtube brigade

I haven't looked deeply into his material, but that's my perception. Sargent and Matt Boylan are the two picks of the lot. Sargent sure seems to have had a great attitude and personality while other newcomers dived into all of the petty bickering.  He just published a book version of his videos from 2015 which is available through Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1523851430/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=&sr=

[TheTruthIsOnHere]

I find Mark Sargent's style and presentation the best and most convincing of the flat earth youtube brigade

I haven't looked deeply into his material, but that's my perception. Sargent and Matt Boylan are the two picks of the lot. Sargent sure seems to have had a great attitude and personality while other newcomers dived into all of the petty bickering.  He just published a book version of his videos from 2015 which is available through Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1523851430/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Boylan is a psychopath. He has some points but none of them unique.

If you can get over his anti zionist slant Eric Dubay is the man

[geckothegeek]

I am new here and i am 50% flatearther 50% round earther... i am currently doing my own research... Could one not just go to the Atlantic ocean set up a high powered telescope and look toward Africa?  or Pacific ocean towards Hawaii?

Even Globe supporters would say that you would never see that far as under even the best conditions, because of atmospheric absorption.
However, while the atmosphere absorbs visible light significantly, it is almost transparent to the radio wavelengths from "short wave" to 3 cm microwave.
So if the earth were flat microwave radio transmissions should certainly be received across large ocean distances (with large dishes)[1].

Rough plot of Earth's atmospheric transmittance (or opacity) to various wavelengths
of electromagnetic radiation. Microwaves are strongly absorbed  at wavelengths
shorter than about 1.5 cm (above 20 GHz) by water and other molecules in the air.

So, if the earth were flat, we certainly should (would) see these links across large bodies of water, and there would be no need for the huge expense of communication satellites. Of course for huge data rates, these have now been supplanted by undersea fibreoptic cables.

Mind you,I have a solution that will keep us both happy!
Make the northern hemisphere flat, but keep the southern hemisphere a "hemisphere". Then we'll both be happy!

I made an earlier post on this thread http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4311.msg90274#msg90274 claiming that the known measurements of the earth simply will not fit on a flat plane.

No-one seriously refutes it by questioning the measurements, yet all flat earthers just ignore it!

[1] Before the widespread use of fibreoptic cables, microwave links were commonly used for long distance communication links. The limiting factor on range is (you guessed it) the curvature of the earth. There are some links with around 200 km range, but the antennae are mounted on mountains of say 2,000 m.
see: http://blog.aviatnetworks.com/2011/05/04/the-worlds-longest-all-ip-microwave-link/.

You would really think that TFES would tell them that the earth is really flat! 

An example of this would be the operations at one time of the en-route Air Traffic Control Centers of the Federal Aviation Administration in the United States.This has probably been superseded by more advanced methods since but was a commonly used system in the late 20th Century operations.

There were several of these  Centers located about the USA.

One of these was located at Fort Worth, Texas. In order to cover their area of control, several radar stations were located at Oklahoma City, Oklahoma ; Odessa, Texas;  Texarkana, Arkansas; and Keller, Texas. If the earth was flat, why not just one radar with a sufficient long range ? But because the earth is round , the range of these particular radars was limited by the curvature of the earth.

But in order to relay this radar information to the Centers, several microwave repeater stations were necessary between these radar installations and the Centers. If the earth was flat, why not just one repeater station at the radar site and one at the Centers ? Again, this was because the earth is round and the range of these repeater stations was limited by the curvature of the earth.

http://www.bensware.com/scandfw/fwartcc.htm
Notice also how many installations of transmitters and receivers ("RCAG" - Remote Center Air To Ground stations) were necessary for communications between "ATC"(Air Traffic Control) and the aircraft. Again...Why so many ? Because the earth is round and the range was limited by the curvature of the earth.

You would really think that TFES would tell them that the earth is really flat! 
It may be a long, long way to Tipperary, but it is a long, long way from Odessa to Fort Worth.

Another question for the flat earthers.:
If the earth was reallly flat , why do we have to have those crow's nests or radar antennas mounted so high on masts on ships ? Why not just put the radar antennas on the top deck ....and the persons on the bridge could see just as far if the earth was flat ? You would really think that TFES would tell them the earth is really flat ! I am sure those lookouts would be a lot happier if they didn't have to climb the masts to get in the crow's nests. LOL.

[TheTruthIsOnHere]

Do you think radio waves never decay? Do you think they aren't subject to atmospheric interference? My uncle worked in the Navy, as a sonar tech, but I asked him how does the radar system work, and he actually told me they bounce the waves off the sky to travel further distances.

[andruszkow]

Do you think radio waves never decay? Do you think they aren't subject to atmospheric interference? My uncle worked in the Navy, as a sonar tech, but I asked him how does the radar system work, and he actually told me they bounce the waves off the sky to travel further distances.

Which is correct, but it depends on the frequencies. Different kinds of radio waves behave differently under certain atmospheric conditions

[geckothegeek]

Do you think radio waves never decay? Do you think they aren't subject to atmospheric interference? My uncle worked in the Navy, as a sonar tech, but I asked him how does the radar system work, and he actually told me they bounce the waves off the sky to travel further distances.

Which is correct, but it depends on the frequencies. Different kinds of radio waves behave differently under certain atmospheric conditions

The examples of the radar , radio and microwave systems in the previous post were simply of the frequencies and design criterias that their ranges were limited by the curvature of the earth. Other frequencies and designs would operate differently. These examples were just of systems which were in use at the time. For example , ask some ham radio operator why he operates on the 75 meter band and another why he operates on the 2 meter band ?

And the bottom line is that the earth is a globe. These are just examples of evidence of one area in which the curvature of the earth is proven .

Of course the old sailors knew about how the curvature of the earth affected the distance they could see from their crow's nests long before the inventions of radio and radar.
It is also too bad that FES had not informed them that the earth was flat.

[TheTruthIsOnHere]

Gecko we get it everything proves the earth is round, and otherwise we should inform them that it is flat. Your mission is accomplished. The more you try to convince the FES how wrong they are the more you look like the desperate, wrong one. You notice no one is trying to prove to you the Earth is flat, right?

[rabinoz]

Gecko we get it everything proves the earth is round, and otherwise we should inform them that it is flat. Your mission is accomplished. The more you try to convince the FES how wrong they are the more you look like the desperate, wrong one. You notice no one is trying to prove to you the Earth is flat, right?

I do find it strange that all you and so many (presumably) flat earth supporters seem to is try to find "holes" in the Globe earth.
Almost all of the time these "holes" in the Globe earth are simply a failure to understand the earth and the rest of the solar system.

You never seem to provide positive evidence for the Flat Earth.

Even when asked about specific points we rarely get an answer. I have specifically asked (not you in particular):
about sunrise directions - no answer,
about moon phases - ditto,
about UA - ditto.
Just funny how most FE supporters either don't know anything about their own Flat Earth or aren't prepared to support it.

[geckothegeek]

Gecko we get it everything proves the earth is round, and otherwise we should inform them that it is flat. Your mission is accomplished. The more you try to convince the FES how wrong they are the more you look like the desperate, wrong one. You notice no one is trying to prove to you the Earth is flat, right?

Of course we know that everything proves the earth is a globe  and nothing proves the earth is flat.
I supposed it was something that got obsessive in posting "round earth" facts and seeing all the silly answers you get from the "flat earthers."
My first try at this was the old "distance from the earth to the moon" subject and how some amateur radio operators came up with the results of their "Moon Bounce" experiments. You can see how that one went. The moderator finally locked it .
I have received a few PM's from some who got so tired of this forum that you no longer see any posts from them any more.
I suppose I should do the same, but it's too hard to kick the habit. It has been fun for me to debunk flat earth, but it has gotten tiresome, so maybe it's time for me to depart the scene of the crime, too. Same flat earth answers all the time - denials.
It is also just my opinion but I still wonder if these websites - both of them - were intended to be "spoof" websites like a lot of others on the Internet. I think some flat earthers are like the old  "ham actors" (no reference to the radio operators .LOL) who liked to over emote to try to prove their case. Like one moderator, for an example.

[geckothegeek]

Quote from rabinoz.:
Mind you,I have a solution that will keep us both happy!
Make the northern hemisphere flat, but keep the southern hemisphere a "hemisphere". Then we'll both be happy!"

Suggestion:
Make the northern "HEMIPLANE" flat, but keep the southern hemisphere a "HEMISPHERE". Then we'll both be happy.

[rabinoz]

Quote from rabinoz.:
Mind you,I have a solution that will keep us both happy!
Make the northern hemisphere flat, but keep the southern hemisphere a "hemisphere". Then we'll both be happy!"

Suggestion:
Make the northern "HEMIPLANE" flat, but keep the southern hemisphere a "HEMISPHERE". Then we'll both be happy.

Do you think there is enough room in the southern hemisphere countries for all the "HEMIPLANer refugees" we would get.

BTW you can keep Donald Trump up on the "plane".

[Round fact]

I am convinced that the reason the Flat Earth Movement will not put any effort into making a map is that so many appreciate that it can't be done!

What you are convinced of is literally irrelevant. Not only is your opinion objectively false, but it is bordering on nonsensical. If that is the best you can come up with, then it is no wonder you are a round earther.

That's just yet another portion of Teflon. There's nothing nonsensical in what you quoted at all, your response was pretty much standard though. Do you guys have a repository for standard comments to insert into your posts where everything else would fail?

He's actually asking simple questions. If FET had an ounce of seriousness to it, answering these questions should be trivial, with something else than the usual "if that's the best", "you make no sense" or "being eloquent hides the fact that we're delusional"-esk answers FE'ers seems to give, just by habbit.

Robert Heinlein had it right;

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not make messes in the house

If it can’t be expressed in figures, it is not science; it is opinion.

But best quoted is this one;

Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime: the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.

[juner]

I am convinced that the reason the Flat Earth Movement will not put any effort into making a map is that so many appreciate that it can't be done!

What you are convinced of is literally irrelevant. Not only is your opinion objectively false, but it is bordering on nonsensical. If that is the best you can come up with, then it is no wonder you are a round earther.

That's just yet another portion of Teflon. There's nothing nonsensical in what you quoted at all, your response was pretty much standard though. Do you guys have a repository for standard comments to insert into your posts where everything else would fail?

He's actually asking simple questions. If FET had an ounce of seriousness to it, answering these questions should be trivial, with something else than the usual "if that's the best", "you make no sense" or "being eloquent hides the fact that we're delusional"-esk answers FE'ers seems to give, just by habbit.

Robert Heinlein had it right;

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not make messes in the house

If it can’t be expressed in figures, it is not science; it is opinion.

But best quoted is this one;

Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime: the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.

Were you trying to make some kind of a point? Not only are the quotes you posted sensationalist non sequiturs, they are also completely irrelevant. I'm not sure if it makes you somehow feel smarter or superior by posting them, but they have no bearing to the discussion.

[Rounder]

Do you think radio waves never decay? Do you think they aren't subject to atmospheric interference? My uncle worked in the Navy, as a sonar tech, but I asked him how does the radar system work, and he actually told me they bounce the waves off the sky to travel further distances.

Radio does decay, but those of us who don't deny space travel are aware that radio transmissions are detectable here on earth from the two Voyager probes, currently 16 and 20 billion kilometers away, transmitting at a whopping 20 watts.  Sure, it takes huge dishes to pick that up, but it can be done.