[MrAtlas]

Sorry, but I'm still not convinced that the earth is flat. But I think that the discussions are both interesting and challenges your thinking :-)

I want to ask some of the flat earth believers if there's ANYTHING that could convince you that the earth is not flat? E.g. if you were invited into space to look for yourself or whatever. What would be 'the ultimate proof' for you that the earth is, in fact, not flat?

[sceptimatic]

Sorry, but I'm still not convinced that the earth is flat. But I think that the discussions are both interesting and challenges your thinking :-)

I want to ask some of the flat earth believers if there's ANYTHING that could convince you that the earth is not flat? E.g. if you were invited into space to look for yourself or whatever. What would be 'the ultimate proof' for you that the earth is, in fact, not flat?

Bear in mind that all of us at one stage were brought up to accept one model. The Globe and all the flannel that goes with it.

The mere fact that people are viewing alternative Earth theories is due to the fact that they see too much ridiculousness with the model they were forced to adhere to.

Having said that, I'll answer your question.
If I can watch astronauts walk to the rocket and be seen to enter it with no way out, then to lift off high into the sky, then I'll revert back to believing everything about a globe and all the trimmings.

I would need to be able to do this by viewing from a real telescope in real time and as close as humanly possible.
I would also need to inspect the rocket on the launch pad before lift off just to make sure there is no escape and to verify that the rocket is actually real.

I'd say my chances were zero but I'm sure there will be a few that will tell me I would be allowed to do all this due to them suddenly turning into NASA security and all that. 

[MrAtlas]

Hi again!

Thanks for your reply!

I can see that the 'RE theory' would be a 'hard sell' to you! :-D

But for real; I'm not sure that it would even be a 'proof' that the Earth is round. I assume that if your really succeeded in watching the rocket and you posted your observations here on this site, we would just have all the other Flat Earth believers saying that your were just paid to say so and that you're a part of the hoax etc, etc. (I assume that since you don't believe in testimonies from other space travelers, you can't expect other people to believe in your testimonies).

Currently about 540 people is said to have been space (from 40 different countries). I've personally talked to two (the Dane and the Swede). Is there a chance that you would trust any of these 540 peoples testimonies? Or could you think of a more 'objective' proof you would accept?

Cheers

[Roundy]

The thing is, even assuming people have been to space and it's not a whole big hoax, we've seen evidence from NASA itself that the moon is actually flat.  We've seen evidence of the same about Mars as well.  Since they look spherical from here, it is only reasonable to conclude that large objects appear spherical from far away due to the presence of the medium (the aether) between the observer and the object.  I believe that expeditions to space have proven that the Earth is flat, but the data has continually been misinterpreted thanks to the overarching bias that the Earth is round, which like many lies throughout history can be ultimately attributed to the insidious influence of the Catholic Church.

[sceptimatic]

Hi again!

Thanks for your reply!

I can see that the 'RE theory' would be a 'hard sell' to you! :-D

But for real; I'm not sure that it would even be a 'proof' that the Earth is round. I assume that if your really succeeded in watching the rocket and you posted your observations here on this site, we would just have all the other Flat Earth believers saying that your were just paid to say so and that you're a part of the hoax etc, etc. (I assume that since you don't believe in testimonies from other space travelers, you can't expect other people to believe in your testimonies).

Currently about 540 people is said to have been space (from 40 different countries). I've personally talked to two (the Dane and the Swede). Is there a chance that you would trust any of these 540 peoples testimonies? Or could you think of a more 'objective' proof you would accept?

Cheers

I've talked to many people that come across as so genuine that you simply have to believe them.
They answer relevant questions and give off an aura of respectability.
Guess what?...they turned out to be extremely good bull crap artists. Excellent poker faced liars.

But then there's the less than convincing crew who simply reek of lies and stories. They usually display body give away's as well as vocal inconsistencies, in tone and quality of words.

Neil Armstrong was one person carrying enormous guilt. Serious guilt and I believe he tried his best to relay some truth's and cryptic messages to switched on people, as his way of clearing his conscience before his passing.

I don't expect anyone to believe what I say. What I say is what I believe. It's up to each individual to go looking for the truth and up to each individual to choose who to trust or at least take snippets from.


The OP asked for my ultimate proof. I suppose the ultimate proof would be going into space and looking back at a spinning marble looking ball. This would require me to board a rocket to do this.
Seeing as that's not going to happen, then I'll make it easier on those people who supposedly push the space carry on and take a proof by what I said previously.

[MrAtlas]

Hi again!

Again - thanks for your reply!

As I said, I really like these discussions. They're interesting and challenges your thinking. I think you guys have a lot to offer in the 'free thinking' and reasoning, so I think it's a shame when you're so fast pull the ad hominem arguments. You will probably loose a lot of people in the discussions.

I think it's a tough requirement you have for 'the ultimate proof'. It will make the discussions less interesting, you see. You're basically saying that no matter what experiment, arguement, etc we're put on the table, you'll only be convinced if you flew up in a rocket to see for yourself. That's not being very open minded or freethinking, I think. Is there a chance you could be satisfied with less?

Cheers

[illuminous21]

Sorry, but I'm still not convinced that the earth is flat. But I think that the discussions are both interesting and challenges your thinking :-)

I want to ask some of the flat earth believers if there's ANYTHING that could convince you that the earth is not flat? E.g. if you were invited into space to look for yourself or whatever. What would be 'the ultimate proof' for you that the earth is, in fact, not flat?

Let's just start with a video (that isn't taken with a fish-eye lens) or a picture (that hasn't been photoshopped) that even shows curvature on the earth, let alone proving it...

[MrAtlas]

YouTube videos are good, and there must be one on the internet (on YouTube of course :-D). I don't know, so somebody must help me here. However, I guess that YouTube videoes can be manipulated any way you want? I was more thinking of arguments like "why does 'gravity' vary across the surface of the Earth, if the Earth is flat and moving in the same direction (up)"?

[sceptimatic]

Hi again!

Again - thanks for your reply!

As I said, I really like these discussions. They're interesting and challenges your thinking. I think you guys have a lot to offer in the 'free thinking' and reasoning, so I think it's a shame when you're so fast pull the ad hominem arguments. You will probably loose a lot of people in the discussions.

I think it's a tough requirement you have for 'the ultimate proof'. It will make the discussions less interesting, you see. You're basically saying that no matter what experiment, arguement, etc we're put on the table, you'll only be convinced if you flew up in a rocket to see for yourself. That's not being very open minded or freethinking, I think. Is there a chance you could be satisfied with less?

Cheers

Ok, to be shown how a small rocket works inside the supposed huge vacuum chamber at NASA. the one that the myth busters apparently used.
Under my direction only.
If the small rocket shoots off like it would in atmosphere than I'd happily concede that we are being told the truth about the Earth and space.

If this is still being too strict then what's the basic minimum that you think I should accept in terms of a proof?

[MrAtlas]

I still think it's difficult to use as a general 'proof', if it would only convince you and not the whole Flat Earth community. They could rightfully argue, that you had been bribed to tell a different story.

Also; I don't know enough about 'rocket sciences' to say if it's a valid argument to proof that NASA have been to the Moon and so on.

[MrAtlas]

Actually; I can't even believe that we're having this debte! It's a small world and we have so much technology that it would be relatively simple to tell if we're on a globe or a flat Earth.

If you fly over 'the edge' and take som good photos, then you'll have me convinced :-D

[sceptimatic]

Actually; I can't even believe that we're having this debte! It's a small world and we have so much technology that it would be relatively simple to tell if we're on a globe or a flat Earth.

If you fly over 'the edge' and take some good photos, then you'll have me convinced :-D

If there's so much technology to tell if we're on a globe then why do we have to put up with stitched pictures of a supposed Earth from space and why are fish eye lenses always used.

Why don't they just use this technology to show the people the reality without beating about the bush?

You see, you're asking for proof of flying over some edge Earth and I don't subscribe to that. You need to find those that believe in a disc that you can fall off of. I don't know anyone that subscribes to this.

I suppose the only proof we both have or will likely get is the proof of our own logical minds and to just follow that.
I'm fine with you adhering to the globe. I did at one time  and now I'm 100% certain in my mind that it's anything but a rotating globe,, but that's just my thoughts.

[Roundy]

If you fly over 'the edge' and take som good photos, then you'll have me convinced :-D

What would make you so sure that if the Earth is flat it must have an edge?  As you rightly point out, no edge has ever been observed, and it would be unzetetic to the extreme to assume the existence of one despite a complete lack of evidence (hell, it would even be unscientific... not that I put much stock in what's scientific).

[MrAtlas]

@Sceptimatic:
I was actually thinking of 'believers' from both sides. The Flat Earthers should also, in a relative simple way, be able to 'proof' the existence of a flat Earth. Senses can so easily be tricked ("at night I can't see my neighbors cat, hence; the cat only exist in daylight"), so don't you agree that we should find evidence beyond our senses?

What I like about you guys (Flat Earthers) and the reason why I spend time on this site is your open minds and free thinking. Don't disappoint saying that you're 100% sure about anything! ;-) Being really free thinking, you should also be able to ultimately accept that the Earth is a globe, if the thinking and evidence points that way. Or what?

@Roundy:
I was left with the impression after reading your Q&A (http://wiki.tfes.org/FAQ#What_does_the_earth_look_like.3F_How_is_circumnavigation_possible.3F) that that was the model that was currently accepted by the society. Somewhere I even read that it was believet that the edge was guarded by government. Maybe I didn't do my homework properly. I'll catch up. But edge or no edge; there must be some unexplored land that need to be explored?

@Both:
Thanks for the discussion!

[Roundy]

@Roundy:
I was left with the impression after reading your Q&A (http://wiki.tfes.org/FAQ#What_does_the_earth_look_like.3F_How_is_circumnavigation_possible.3F) that that was the model that was currently accepted by the society. Somewhere I even read that it was believet that the edge was guarded by government. Maybe I didn't do my homework properly. I'll catch up. But edge or no edge; there must be some unexplored land that need to be explored?

You didn't hear it from me, but our FAQ sucks.  It is outdated and badly in need of a tune-up.  I'm not sure the notion that the edge is guarded by the government was ever anything more than a joke.  I don't think anybody really takes it seriously.

Rowbotham really put it best in his seminal work Earth Not a Globe:

How far the ice extends; how it terminates; and what exists beyond it, are questions to which no present human experience can reply. All we at present know is, that snow and hail, howling winds, and indescribable storms and hurricanes prevail; and that in every direction "human ingress is barred by unsealed escarpments of perpetual ice," extending farther than eye or telescope can penetrate, and becoming lost in gloom and darkness.

[Pete Svarrior]

The FAQ makes no mention of a guarded Ice Wall. The use of the word "edge" there is a miswording at best - the edge of the known Earth is the Ice Wall. What's beyond it remains unknown.

[MrAtlas]

I've now read a bit up on your site. Let me just summarize:

You don't believe that the Earth is a globe - It's all conspiracy
You don't believe that anybody ever traveled to space - It's all conspiracy
You don't believe that anybody ever climbed the Mt Everst - It's all conspiracy
You don't believe that anybody ever crossed the South Pole - It's all conspiracy
-And you believe that the lies have been orchestrated in generations and over 100 of years, involving millions of stakeholders from a vast amount of different countries with different interests and agendas - just to .. yes... just to what? Who would gain from a globe shaped Earth instead of a flat?

Do FES have any official Chairperson or Spokesperson with real names, living in the real life? I suspect the FES to be no more than a sociological experiment made by government. If you can convince the people that the Earth is flat, you can convince them anything. Remember you heard it from me the first time ;-)

[undercoverfugl]

Let's imagine the earth is flat, and everything revolves around the earth....AND the world we know of is surrounded by Antarctica..The thought that the human race might be a social experiment, isn't very far away in my mind at least. Hearing stuff like the moon looks like a hologram of some sort, 3 days before full moon, private people see a giant wave. It all just adds up pretty well, why the governments and media refuse to touch on UFO's and such. The world would collapse and the "game" would be over. It would be a great reason to keep the public believing the earth is round and we are simply a mere quiescence of some big bang, rather than the actual center of the world, and probably surrounded by Antarctica. 

Source:
http://aplanetruth.info/2015/04/26/star-trails-prove-earth-is-the-center-of-the-universe/

[MrAtlas]

Interesting. By the way, why can’t we see Polaris from the Southern hemisphere? I guess it’s because it’s very close to the horizon? But then, how is it possible to see nice circular star trails in the sky in the Southern hemisphere too (example: )? Oh, and did you notice how the star trails filmed in the North hemisphere rotate counter-clockwise, while star trails filmed in the South hemisphere rotate clockwise? I’m confused, shouldn’t the stars rotate in the same direction no matter were you are on the flat Earth?

[giuseppepittsburgh]

I am new here and i am 50% flatearther 50% round earther... i am currently doing my own research... Could one not just go to the Atlantic ocean set up a high powered telescope and look toward Africa?  or Pacific ocean towards Hawaii?