[Fortuna]

I've turned down 3 IT jobs at this point. I think I just like stacking certs and working at my comfy Socialist government job. But for real, I had a 2nd interview today with a managed security service provider and I think I'll take it.

[Dr Van Nostrand]

I think I just like stacking certs and working at my comfy Socialist government job. But for real, I had a 2nd interview today with a managed security service provider and I think I'll take it.

Yep, I'm doing the Security + exam, probably late December, Early January. Not for anything specific now, just for down the road.

 I want to do Pentest + because it looks like fun. The performance based questions are like little CTF challenges.

[RonJ]

I have a whole pile of computer certs (including Security+ ).  Some I needed for the last job I had before retirement.  The problem with stacking them is that they kind of 'expire'.  If you are not using the material the certs cover then you will forget a bunch after a while.  If the certs cover technology that becomes outdated then they are kind of worthless too.  After 3 or 4 years a lot of stuff has advanced and unless you keep taking tests every year or two you will fall behind. 

[Fortuna]

Yep, I'm doing the Security + exam, probably late December, Early January. Not for anything specific now, just for down the road.

The newest version is a real pain in the ass. The two study guides I used were 150 pages long each, and they were supposed to be the condensed versions of the information.

[Lord Dave]

I've turned down 3 IT jobs at this point. I think I just like stacking certs and working at my comfy Socialist government job. But for real, I had a 2nd interview today with a managed security service provider and I think I'll take it.

Why did ya turn them down?

[Fortuna]

I've turned down 3 IT jobs at this point. I think I just like stacking certs and working at my comfy Socialist government job. But for real, I had a 2nd interview today with a managed security service provider and I think I'll take it.

Why did ya turn them down?

Mostly because the job I have now is really comfy.

[Dr Van Nostrand]

Yep, I'm doing the Security + exam, probably late December, Early January. Not for anything specific now, just for down the road.

The newest version is a real pain in the ass. The two study guides I used were 150 pages long each, and they were supposed to be the condensed versions of the information.

Right!   I should have done the 501 version of the test last year. It was way easier.

I want to get it done as soon as possible before it gets any worse. In the next two years, it could double in size again.

[Fortuna]

I finally decided to accept a job at an MSSP. Their official requirements were 3 years work experience in IT and a BS in computer science or IT. I don't have any of those yet. Do these companies just put really high requirements and hope someone more qualified will take the bait?

[Dr Van Nostrand]

I finally decided to accept a job at an MSSP. Their official requirements were 3 years work experience in IT and a BS in computer science or IT. I don't have any of those yet. Do these companies just put really high requirements and hope someone more qualified will take the bait?

That's really encouraging. I'm going to be leaving my current job in a couple of years and want to make my "red team hobby" into my full time job.

I think certifications are starting to carry as much weight as college degrees. I run a small manufacturing facility and I do all the IT in the building including managing half of the corporate VPN. If I had to hire someone to do the IT part of my job, a person with some Cisco and Microsoft certs would be in a much better position to hit the ground running than a fresh graduate with just a BS in computer science.

When I get into IT full time, I'm assuming that I will be competing with bright, young people who have degrees and certs. But hopefully, I can pitch my certs, my real world experience and almost twenty years of experience managing websites to get something cool. Also, without a bunch of student debt, I can beat them out with a cheaper salary requirement.

Maybe, you just beat out all those candidates that had three years of IT and a degree, fair and square.

[juner]

Do these companies just put really high requirements and hope someone more qualified will take the bait?

Yes.

[Lord Dave]

Do these companies just put really high requirements and hope someone more qualified will take the bait?

Yes.

Also, the jobs are often posted by people who don't know shit about the job itself.
And sometimes (like now) they get so few applicants that they basically take the best qualified even if they don't meet their requirements.

[Fortuna]

I finally decided to accept a job at an MSSP. Their official requirements were 3 years work experience in IT and a BS in computer science or IT. I don't have any of those yet. Do these companies just put really high requirements and hope someone more qualified will take the bait?

That's really encouraging. I'm going to be leaving my current job in a couple of years and want to make my "red team hobby" into my full time job.

I think certifications are starting to carry as much weight as college degrees. I run a small manufacturing facility and I do all the IT in the building including managing half of the corporate VPN. If I had to hire someone to do the IT part of my job, a person with some Cisco and Microsoft certs would be in a much better position to hit the ground running than a fresh graduate with just a BS in computer science.

When I get into IT full time, I'm assuming that I will be competing with bright, young people who have degrees and certs. But hopefully, I can pitch my certs, my real world experience and almost twenty years of experience managing websites to get something cool. Also, without a bunch of student debt, I can beat them out with a cheaper salary requirement.

Maybe, you just beat out all those candidates that had three years of IT and a degree, fair and square.

It sounds like your experience will be a lot more valuable than a degree. If they can hire someone with a degree who kind of knows what to do, or someone who has been doing it for 20 years who knows exactly what to do, I'm pretty sure they'll go with the latter. Don't have a cheaper salary requirement though. The more people who do that, the more that role will be undervalued across the industry. Get as much as you can from whoever hires you.

Do these companies just put really high requirements and hope someone more qualified will take the bait?

Yes.

Their Tier 2 "IT Engineer" role is just a glorified help desk and that one "requires" 7 years of experience lol.

[garygreen]

don't even bother to read the "required experience/skills/whatever" section of a job posting. it means literally nothing.

[Lord Dave]

]

Their Tier 2 "IT Engineer" role is just a glorified help desk and that one "requires" 7 years of experience lol.

Tier 2 should be helpdesk, but someone who knows their shit.
Tier 1 is "read a script and search KB Articles."
Tier 2 is "know what you're doing, know how to google what and fix it."
Tier 3 is "oh shit, this isn't a problem with a pc, its an issues with the system/software being used."

[Fortuna]

]

Their Tier 2 "IT Engineer" role is just a glorified help desk and that one "requires" 7 years of experience lol.

Tier 2 should be helpdesk, but someone who knows their shit.
Tier 1 is "read a script and search KB Articles."
Tier 2 is "know what you're doing, know how to google what and fix it."
Tier 3 is "oh shit, this isn't a problem with a pc, its an issues with the system/software being used."

So, help desk sucks. How long do I have to do this? Most of the people who work there are white trash and have been doing help desk for years. I overheard two of them talking about programming the other day: "Yo check this out. If you add a hashtag in front of your code the computer won't read it!". There's an old English guy who works there for some reason and he has a very strong accent. He seems to know everything under the sun related to IT. Everyone is always asking him for help constantly. I have no idea why the fuck he would work at this hick company in the US instead of at a posh office in the UK.

[Lord Dave]

]

Their Tier 2 "IT Engineer" role is just a glorified help desk and that one "requires" 7 years of experience lol.

Tier 2 should be helpdesk, but someone who knows their shit.
Tier 1 is "read a script and search KB Articles."
Tier 2 is "know what you're doing, know how to google what and fix it."
Tier 3 is "oh shit, this isn't a problem with a pc, its an issues with the system/software being used."

So, help desk sucks.

Yes.  It is hell.

How long do I have to do this?

Until you can find another job.

Most of the people who work there are white trash and have been doing help desk for years. I overheard two of them talking about programming the other day: "Yo check this out. If you add a hashtag in front of your code the computer won't read it!". There's an old English guy who works there for some reason and he has a very strong accent. He seems to know everything under the sun related to IT. Everyone is always asking him for help constantly. I have no idea why the fuck he would work at this hick company in the US instead of at a posh office in the UK.

Many people can work years or more in helpdesk until they burn out.
As for why anyone would work there and not in the UK: could be any number of reasons, but most help desks are being replaced by India.  So... FYI.

[Pete Svarrior]

What kind of work are you looking for in the long term, Fortuna?

[xasop]

So, help desk sucks. How long do I have to do this?

Depending on the company, you may be able to progress internally. That's how I started my career — I did a year of helpdesk, then about two more years of level 2 support (which also sucks, but you get to deal with more interesting problems) before I moved on to bigger and better things.

If you want to take that route, what worked for me is to just do some of the tasks you want to be doing. I only got promoted to level 2 support after people noticed I was already taking on support tickets above my pay grade. Again, this likely varies a lot from one company to another, so consider what is relevant to your position and goals.

[Fortuna]

As for why anyone would work there and not in the UK: could be any number of reasons, but most help desks are being replaced by India.  So... FYI.

There are two level 3 remote workers from Pakistan, probably being paid $5 an hour for way more advanced work. They manage all of the ESXi machines in the office.

What kind of work are you looking for in the long term, Fortuna?

Cloud, most likely AWS. I'm working on learning Bash and Python concurrently with all the AWS services.

So, help desk sucks. How long do I have to do this?

Depending on the company, you may be able to progress internally. That's how I started my career — I did a year of helpdesk, then about two more years of level 2 support (which also sucks, but you get to deal with more interesting problems) before I moved on to bigger and better things.

If you want to take that route, what worked for me is to just do some of the tasks you want to be doing. I only got promoted to level 2 support after people noticed I was already taking on support tickets above my pay grade. Again, this likely varies a lot from one company to another, so consider what is relevant to your position and goals.

That's about what the hiring manager said. 12 - 18 months of level 1 support. But, I hear of people being promoted out in 6 months, and other people who stay there for years. It seems no one but the IT manager knows anything about cloud, though. The only problem is that the few cloud services they use are on Azure and I'm learning AWS. Although, I imagine they have pretty similar offerings, no?

[xasop]

The only problem is that the few cloud services they use are on Azure and I'm learning AWS. Although, I imagine they have pretty similar offerings, no?

I have no idea about Azure and I have never touched it or read about it, but I'm confident I could work with it if I had to because I've developed enough general technical skills without focusing too much on one provider. That's what I would suggest in all cases — instead of looking at your current endeavour as learning bash and python, for example, see it as learning how to script using bash and python as examples. Then if someone wants you to write in perl, there will be a slight learning curve, but you will already have most of the skills you need.

The same goes for AWS. Make sure you understand what is going on conceptually, not just the steps you have to go through to build something on AWS. This is made somewhat challenging by the fact that it's in AWS's interests to lock you into their services as much as possible, so it is sometimes not very transparent. But for example, you could set up a PostgreSQL database server manually on an EC2 instance to get an idea of what goes on behind the scenes when you use RDS.

The modern tech industry has far too much emphasis on specific tooling and too little on the fundamental concepts, with the result that most people don't understand what the tools they're using do. I hope you don't fall into that trap.