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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2021, 12:52:27 PM »
Except women. Women will be worse off. So half the population will be worse off. Oh, and all the men who think women shouldn’t be treated like slaves. They also will be worse off.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think America should have been there for 20 years and I don’t doubt on the ground level, many people won’t have their lives substantially disrupted. Except women, of course.
But that's just it. I don't think women will be persecuted in the way our media are saying. Can the Taliban AFFORD to educate girls? Mmmmm. Maybe not. Are they going to actively go out to attack women ... I'm not so sure they will. They all have mothers, sisters, daughters and wives. We should put a pin in that one and revisit when the dust settles. Being told a terrible outcome will occur by the media and that imagined doom actually coming to fruition are usually two very different things.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2021, 12:53:13 PM »
Except women. Women will be worse off. So half the population will be worse off. Oh, and all the men who think women shouldn’t be treated like slaves. They also will be worse off.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think America should have been there for 20 years and I don’t doubt on the ground level, many people won’t have their lives substantially disrupted. Except women, of course.
But that's just it. I don't think women will be persecuted in the way our media are saying. Can the Taliban AFFORD to educate girls? Mmmmm. Maybe not. Are they going to actively go out to attack women ... I'm not so sure they will. They all have mothers, sisters, daughters and wives. We should put a pin in that one and revisit when the dust settles. Being told a terrible outcome will occur by the media and that imagined doom actually coming to fruition are usually two very different things.

Why do you imagine the Taliban will have changed their treatment of women?
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Offline Action80

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2021, 01:11:47 PM »
Except women. Women will be worse off. So half the population will be worse off. Oh, and all the men who think women shouldn’t be treated like slaves. They also will be worse off.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think America should have been there for 20 years and I don’t doubt on the ground level, many people won’t have their lives substantially disrupted. Except women, of course.
But that's just it. I don't think women will be persecuted in the way our media are saying. Can the Taliban AFFORD to educate girls? Mmmmm. Maybe not. Are they going to actively go out to attack women ... I'm not so sure they will. They all have mothers, sisters, daughters and wives. We should put a pin in that one and revisit when the dust settles. Being told a terrible outcome will occur by the media and that imagined doom actually coming to fruition are usually two very different things.

Why do you imagine the Taliban will have changed their treatment of women?
We have confidence you can go over there and reason with them.

Offer them the benefit of your tremendous intellect and compassion and seek to change things one person at a time.

When you get back, let us know how it all went.

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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2021, 01:19:47 PM »
Why do you imagine the Taliban will have changed their treatment of women?
Its not that I think they change how they treat women. Its that I don't believe what I have been told by the MSM about how they treat their women. We are always told our enemies are monsters. Saddam Hussain had WMDs. Assad in Syrian is a madman. Kim Jon Un, also mad. As was Kim Jon Il. Its often lies to get you on board with an unpopular war.

Let's just let the dust settle and see. Driving all of the women out of your country isn't going to make for a very strong next generation of Taliban. I think much of what we got told is BS.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-58241000
^Seems women are allowed to carry on as before.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 01:41:02 PM by Toddler Thork »
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2021, 01:44:53 PM »
Why do you imagine the Taliban will have changed their treatment of women?
Its not that I think they change how they treat women. Its that I don't believe what I have been told by the MSM about how they treat their women. We are always told our enemies are monsters. Saddam Hussain had WMDs. Assad in Syrian is a madman. Kim Jon Un, also mad. As was Kim Jon Il. Its often lies to get you on board with an unpopular war.

How did you discern which are lies and which are truths?

Quote
Let's just let the dust settle and see. Driving all of the women out of your country isn't going to make for a very strong next generation of Taliban. I think much of what we got told is BS.

Don't you think that if the Taliban are what we they are portrayed as, women won't be allowed to leave the country?

Quote
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-58241000
^Seems women are allowed to carry on as before.

So you don't believe Western MSM, but you do believe Afghanistan's MSM? Why is that?
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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2021, 01:53:40 PM »
How did you discern which are lies and which are truths?
Well how can anyone? You have to apply logic and common sense and hope you come up with something resembling the truth. What you can't do is let them spoonfeed you whatever they like.

Don't you think that if the Taliban are what we they are portrayed as, women won't be allowed to leave the country?
How can they stop them? I couldn't help noticing from the images of people fleeing on US aircraft ... they were all men of fighting age. Women and children were not fleeing. That's telling, I think.




^ A few women near the front, probably leaving with their husbands. Not many though. Its mostly young men. The ones who likely fought with the Americans.

So you don't believe Western MSM, but you do believe Afghanistan's MSM? Why is that?
I've never even seen Afghan media. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't believe our media. Its corrupt as hell.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 01:59:02 PM by Toddler Thork »
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Offline Action80

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2021, 01:56:52 PM »
Don't you think that if the Taliban are what we they are portrayed as, women won't be allowed to leave the country?
Can you please write down something that could serve as an intelligible interpretation of what is considered a coherent thought regarding what you mean to communicate?

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2021, 02:00:01 PM »
How did you discern which are lies and which are truths?
Well how can anyone? You have to apply logic and common sense and hope you come up with something resembling the truth. What you can't do is let them spoonfeed you whatever they like.

So in your mind, its more likely that a hardline Islamic Theocracy will treat women equitably than not, despite the Qu'ran proscribing harsh constraints on women's lives?

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How can they stop them?

With guns.

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I couldn't help noticing from the images on people fleeing on US aircraft ... they were all men of fighting age. Women and children were not fleeing. That's telling, I think.

What do you think that's telling us?

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I've never even seen Afghan media. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't believe our media. Its corrupt as hell.

The default position when you don't trust western media, shouldn't be to instantly trust the media you have never watched before.  This is especially surprising from you, considering your extensive history of Western chauvinism.
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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2021, 02:05:25 PM »
So in your mind, its more likely that a hardline Islamic Theocracy will treat women equitably than not, despite the Qu'ran proscribing harsh constraints on women's lives?
So you've been told. But Saudi Arabia and the UAE are affluent first world Islamic nations. They have a few rules on their women but I don't see America protesting that. Too busy buying oil.

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How can they stop them?
With guns.
Borders are fairly porous things in landlocked countries with no walls.

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I couldn't help noticing from the images on people fleeing on US aircraft ... they were all men of fighting age. Women and children were not fleeing. That's telling, I think.

What do you think that's telling us?
Its telling me the average Afghani doesn't think they are in any mortal danger.

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I've never even seen Afghan media. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't believe our media. Its corrupt as hell.

The default position when you don't trust western media, shouldn't be to instantly trust the media you have never watched before.  This is especially surprising from you, considering your extensive history of Western chauvinism.
How am I trusting media that literally doesn't exist? There is no Taliban TV yet. What are you talking about?
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2021, 02:12:43 PM »
So you've been told. But Saudi Arabia and the UAE are affluent first world Islamic nations.

We are told this by Afghani people.

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They have a few rules on their women but I don't see America protesting that. Too busy buying oil.

I am not sure why America being hypocrites on the international stage makes the Taliban any more palatable.

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Its telling me the average Afghani doesn't think they are in any mortal danger.

A bunch of people fleeing the country indicates to you that people feel safe in that country?

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How am I trusting media that literally doesn't exist? There is no Taliban TV yet. What are you talking about?

You are aware that the Taliban are back in control of the country?
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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2021, 02:47:48 PM »
I am not sure why America being hypocrites on the international stage makes the Taliban any more palatable.
If you don't give a shit about Saudi women, why should I take you seriously when you complain about the rights of Afghan women? These trampled rights you speak of are probably not as terrible as America makes them out to be, when it suits America to talk of them.

A bunch of people fleeing the country indicates to you that people feel safe in that country?
Its not the people leaving, the few American lackies. Its the millions who seem content and are just getting on with their lives.

You are aware that the Taliban are back in control of the country?
And you are aware it takes more than a day to set up a TV company with a full agenda and get everyone singing from the same hymn sheet?
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2021, 03:03:32 PM »
If you don't give a shit about Saudi women, why should I take you seriously when you complain about the rights of Afghan women?

When have I ever said that I don't give a shit about Saudi women?  I think Saudi Arabia treats women like shit and its fucking awful that America sucks the King's schlong for the priviledge of using their oil to kill the Earth.

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These trampled rights you speak of are probably not as terrible as America makes them out to be, when it suits America to talk of them.

Ok, but what about when Afghani women talk about them?

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Its not the people leaving, the few American lackies. Its the millions who seem content and are just getting on with their lives.

How do you know there are millions of content people?

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And you are aware it takes more than a day to set up a TV company with a full agenda and get everyone singing from the same hymn sheet?

Why would they have set up a new TV company when they just took over a city with one that is already functioning?  All they had to do was give them talking points.  You know, the thing you accuse Western Media of doing?
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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2021, 03:30:03 PM »
Ok, but what about when Afghani women talk about them?
What are they saying? I'm not seeing any complaints other than those of leftist academic women from Afghanistan who are pushing the liberal agenda into our MSM again and getting paid to say the things they say.

How do you know there are millions of content people?
The only people bleating, are those who latched onto western powers to rule the nation. The enemy of the Taliban.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/15/afghans-linked-to-british-beg-please-help-save-our-lives-from-taliban

I'd like you to engage your brain for a second.
Quote from: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/17/evacuation-flights-resume-as-biden-defends-afghanistan-pullout
The Taliban has declared an “amnesty” across Afghanistan and urged women to join its government, trying to calm nerves across a tense capital city that only the day before saw chaos at its airport as thousands mobbed the city’s international airport in a desperate attempt to flee.
So, the Taliban reach out to women. Offer amnesty to those who are its natural enemies. And thousands ... not millions flee.
^This doesn't sound dangerous. Its sounds like the American puppet government is being kicked out and other Afghanis are just coming in to rule. And they have no axe to grind, but they want independence from the USA. Sure, the USA have been humiliated again, their fall-of-Saigon images are all over world news and likely Kim Jon Un and pals are going to wave their dicks about knowing America wouldn't dare get into another long war it can't win. But I don't think this is dangerous for the average Afghani citizen. It's a change of party. We have those all the time in our countries. They've been forced to have US endorsed candidates for 20 years. It should be noted other countries like Pakistan and China have welcomed the Taliban and wished them well. America could find itself on the wrong side of history.

Why would they have set up a new TV company when they just took over a city with one that is already functioning?  All they had to do was give them talking points.  You know, the thing you accuse Western Media of doing?
Because you keep labouring this point and for the avoidance of any doubt ... I have not been watching any Afghani television. I don't get Afghani channels. I don't know the name of any Afghani channels. I don't speak Dari or Pashto. I have never watched Afghani TV. Therefore I am confident they have not influenced my thinking in any way shape or form. Can we move on from this absurd point?
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2021, 04:24:01 PM »
Ok, but what about when Afghani women talk about them?
What are they saying? I'm not seeing any complaints other than those of leftist academic women from Afghanistan who are pushing the liberal agenda into our MSM again and getting paid to say the things they say.

Ignorance is not an excuse. Here is Al Jazeera reporting on a girl who had acid thrown in her face because she wanted to attend school, which women were barred from doing under the Taliban

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2008/11/12/afghan-girls-scarred-in-acid-attack

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The only people bleating, are those who latched onto western powers to rule the nation. The enemy of the Taliban.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/15/afghans-linked-to-british-beg-please-help-save-our-lives-from-taliban

So no evidence that millions are content. As expected.

Quote
I'd like you to engage your brain for a second.

No need for personal attacks.


Quote
Quote from: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/17/evacuation-flights-resume-as-biden-defends-afghanistan-pullout
The Taliban has declared an “amnesty” across Afghanistan and urged women to join its government, trying to calm nerves across a tense capital city that only the day before saw chaos at its airport as thousands mobbed the city’s international airport in a desperate attempt to flee.
So, the Taliban reach out to women. Offer amnesty to those who are its natural enemies. And thousands ... not millions flee.
^This doesn't sound dangerous. Its sounds like the American puppet government is being kicked out and other Afghanis are just coming in to rule. And they have no axe to grind, but they want independence from the USA. Sure, the USA have been humiliated again, their fall-of-Saigon images are all over world news and likely Kim Jon Un and pals are going to wave their dicks about knowing America wouldn't dare get into another long war it can't win. But I don't think this is dangerous for the average Afghani citizen. It's a change of party. We have those all the time in our countries. They've been forced to have US endorsed candidates for 20 years. It should be noted other countries like Pakistan and China have welcomed the Taliban and wished them well. America could find itself on the wrong side of history.

The Taliban asking people to stay and remain calm says nothing about their intentions of how they will treat them.  History has shown them to be a totalitarian theocracy and I’m not sure why that would change.



Quote
Because you keep labouring this point and for the avoidance of any doubt ... I have not been watching any Afghani television. I don't get Afghani channels. I don't know the name of any Afghani channels. I don't speak Dari or Pashto. I have never watched Afghani TV. Therefore I am confident they have not influenced my thinking in any way shape or form. Can we move on from this absurd point?

You literally started this by holding up a clip of a woman on Afghan television as proof that the Taliban will treat women equitably, despite the evidence that they have treated them barbarically in the past. This is your absurd point we are discussing.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 04:26:01 PM by Rama Set »
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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2021, 04:38:35 PM »
Ignorance is not an excuse. Here is Al Jazeera reporting on a girl who had acid thrown in her face because she wanted to attend school, which women were barred from doing under the Taliban
No no no. You don't get to do that. That's a MSM trick. You find a single example of something and make out that it is commonplace. Its not. It made world news precisely because it isn't and because it fits with the narrative. One mental person doing something awful isn't typical of the Taliban any more than a school shooter in the USA is typical of Republican voters.


So no evidence that millions are content. As expected.
No evidence they are in danger, either. You are the one asserting things are going to get bad. Prove it.

Quote
I'd like you to engage your brain for a second.
No need for personal attacks.
Not a personal attack. I'm asking you use some critical thought rather than parroting back to me something you read.

The Taliban asking people to stay and remain calm says nothing about their intentions of how they will treat them.
Terrorists do not ask people to remain calm. Quite the opposite.

History has shown them to be a totalitarian theocracy and I’m not sure why that would change.
And the USA is a totalitarian democracy. What's the difference?

You literally started this by holding up a clip of a woman on Afghan television as proof that the Taliban will treat women equitably, despite the evidence that they have treated them barbarically in the past. This is your absurd point we are discussing.
Al Jazeera isn't Afghan television. It is a Middle Eastern media outlet based in Doha, Washington and London.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2021, 04:56:16 PM »
Ignorance is not an excuse. Here is Al Jazeera reporting on a girl who had acid thrown in her face because she wanted to attend school, which women were barred from doing under the Taliban
No no no. You don't get to do that. That's a MSM trick. You find a single example of something and make out that it is commonplace. Its not. It made world news precisely because it isn't and because it fits with the narrative. One mental person doing something awful isn't typical of the Taliban any more than a school shooter in the USA is typical of Republican voters.

No women are not all having acid thrown in their face, but there are some other take always you should acknowledge. Women are not allowed to attend school. This was reported by Al Jazeera, so it’s not just a MSM ploy as you have asserted.


Quote
So no evidence that millions are content. As expected.
No evidence they are in danger, either. You are the one asserting things are going to get bad. Prove it.

I’ve already given you an example of horrible acts that occur in Taliban Afghanistan. Just a couple of days ago, they admitted to killing a comedian for… reasons.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/29/taliban-admit-to-killing-afghan-comic-zwan

Quote
Quote
I'd like you to engage your brain for a second.
No need for personal attacks.
Not a personal attack. I'm asking you use some critical thought rather than parroting back to me something you read.

It’s a personal attack because you have assumed, because I disagree with you, that I haven’t thought about it. Meanwhile I have presented evidence, from sources you have put forth, that the Taliban have done some of the things they have been accused of.

Quote
The Taliban asking people to stay and remain calm says nothing about their intentions of how they will treat them.
Terrorists do not ask people to remain calm. Quite the opposite.

I never said they were terrorists. I said they were a totalitarian theocracy. Please try and rebut the points I have made.

Quote
History has shown them to be a totalitarian theocracy and I’m not sure why that would change.
And the USA is a totalitarian democracy. What's the difference?

You literally started this by holding up a clip of a woman on Afghan television as proof that the Taliban will treat women equitably, despite the evidence that they have treated them barbarically in the past. This is your absurd point we are discussing.
Al Jazeera isn't Afghan television. It is a Middle Eastern media outlet based in Doha, Washington and London.

You posted a BBC link with an embedded clip from the Afghani news outlet, Tolo News, and held that up as proof that women are not oppressed by the Taliban.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2021, 05:03:26 PM »
Girls are being forcifully married off to Taliban soliders.  A practice that was not uncommon 22 years ago.  Forced marriages have been a thing and are now a thing again.  Because Islamic law treats women as frail, helpless objects to be used as men see fit.  The covering of their bodies is to ensure men don't get horny.  Did you know that?  Its a shit life but, unsurprisingly, the men love it so thats who won.  Women have no power to fight back, argue, or demand better lives.  Doing so is grounds for beatings.  But men... Nah, they can do as they want.


Oh and now they can train an army of suicide bombers to hit western targets.  Because revenge.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2021, 05:04:05 PM »
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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2021, 05:23:13 PM »
No women are not all having acid thrown in their face, but there are some other take always you should acknowledge. Women are not allowed to attend school. This was reported by Al Jazeera, so it’s not just a MSM ploy as you have asserted.
The Taliban have already asserted today that 'women will have rights within Islamic law'.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-58219963

Being as they are rebranding the country as "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" that isn't much of a surprise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Emirate_of_Afghanistan

Basically cover your head and do all the other dumb stuff Islamic women have to do and there's no problem.

Along with putting female newsreaders back on the news, offering everyone an amnesty and generally running the place sensibly. What is the problem?

Quote from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58243134
It's much busier in the city than yesterday. There is much more traffic, a few more shops are open, and people are doing their usual jobs.

There have been no reports of violence in the city - no sound of gunfire or helicopters. I can hear a few military jets flying high over the city.

I can see the Taliban presence has increased. Fighters have come from different areas of Afghanistan, the majority of them from Logar province south of the capital. They say they are here to keep order.

The ones I have seen are behaving nicely with people. Sometimes they even ask if you are alright, or if you need help with anything.

I spoke with two street vendors in the centre on Tuesday. As poor Afghans, they said it didn't make any difference to them whether it was the Taliban or Americans in charge.
^ There's the quote you wanted. Poor Afghans don't care who is in charge. It makes no odds to them.

I’ve already given you an example of horrible acts that occur in Taliban Afghanistan. Just a couple of days ago, they admitted to killing a comedian for… reasons.
I'm not interested in your isolated incidents. US soldiers are forever getting called up on war crimes, rapes, murders, torture. Individuals are not the voice of the Taliban.


I never said they were terrorists. I said they were a totalitarian theocracy. Please try and rebut the points I have made.
Well that's just name calling. The US called them terrorists. Now you are calling them a totalitarian theocracy. You just walked away from the terrorist tag. I doubt you've any better evidence for the 'totalitarian theocracy' one.

You posted a BBC link with an embedded clip from the Afghani news outlet, Tolo News, and held that up as proof that women are not oppressed by the Taliban.
So my source was the BBC and not Afghani news. Thank you for clearing that up. I trust you are now satisfied I am not taking my queues from Afghani television. 🙄
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The Taliban Won
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2021, 05:36:36 PM »
No women are not all having acid thrown in their face, but there are some other take always you should acknowledge. Women are not allowed to attend school. This was reported by Al Jazeera, so it’s not just a MSM ploy as you have asserted.
The Taliban have already asserted today that 'women will have rights within Islamic law'.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-58219963

Being as they are rebranding the country as "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" that isn't much of a surprise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Emirate_of_Afghanistan

Basically cover your head and do all the other dumb stuff Islamic women have to do and there's no problem.

Ah yes, the incredibly equitable Islamic law.

Quote
Along with putting female newsreaders back on the news, offering everyone an amnesty and generally running the place sensibly. What is the problem?

They were always enforcing Islamic Law. Their particular interpretation was heinous. Maybe they’ve changed, but I will want to see evidence of that.

Quote
Quote from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58243134
It's much busier in the city than yesterday. There is much more traffic, a few more shops are open, and people are doing their usual jobs.

There have been no reports of violence in the city - no sound of gunfire or helicopters. I can hear a few military jets flying high over the city.

I can see the Taliban presence has increased. Fighters have come from different areas of Afghanistan, the majority of them from Logar province south of the capital. They say they are here to keep order.

The ones I have seen are behaving nicely with people. Sometimes they even ask if you are alright, or if you need help with anything.

I spoke with two street vendors in the centre on Tuesday. As poor Afghans, they said it didn't make any difference to them whether it was the Taliban or Americans in charge.
^ There's the quote you wanted. Poor Afghans don't care who is in charge. It makes no odds to them.

So no evidence of millions of content Afghans. Got it.

Quote
I’ve already given you an example of horrible acts that occur in Taliban Afghanistan. Just a couple of days ago, they admitted to killing a comedian for… reasons.
I'm not interested in your isolated incidents. US soldiers are forever getting called up on war crimes, rapes, murders, torture. Individuals are not the voice of the Taliban.

I’ve shown you evidence of systemic oppression of women by the Taliban as well.


Quote
I never said they were terrorists. I said they were a totalitarian theocracy. Please try and rebut the points I have made.
Well that's just name calling. The US called them terrorists. Now you are calling them a totalitarian theocracy. You just walked away from the terrorist tag. I doubt you've any better evidence for the 'totalitarian theocracy' one.

None that you can’t ignore.

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You posted a BBC link with an embedded clip from the Afghani news outlet, Tolo News, and held that up as proof that women are not oppressed by the Taliban.
So my source was the BBC and not Afghani news. Thank you for clearing that up. I trust you are now satisfied I am not taking my queues from Afghani television. 🙄

The evidence the BBC used was Afghan television. It was literally the entire point of the article. In fact, all the BBC added was where the embedded video originated from and a headline. It feels like you didn’t click your own link.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.