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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1560 on: June 09, 2022, 02:43:15 AM »
Actually the quote isn't coming from the proprietors of that website, it's coming from a doctor.

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Online BillO

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1561 on: June 09, 2022, 02:46:21 AM »
Here's more about Tom's buddy Ryan..

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https://www.factcheck.org/2021/04/scicheck-idaho-doctor-makes-baseless-claims-about-safety-of-covid-19-vaccines/

Just google his name.  His lack of respect from the medical/science community is exemplary.
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I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1562 on: June 09, 2022, 02:49:06 AM »
I did google his name. He's a real doctor. You're not.

Nor is the author of that web page you linked attempting to critique him. The person who wrote that article has a BA in Philosophy.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 02:52:34 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Online BillO

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1563 on: June 09, 2022, 02:49:45 AM »
I did google his name. He's a real doctor. You're not.
And by what magic do you know this?
Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

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Online BillO

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1564 on: June 09, 2022, 02:55:41 AM »
Nor is the author of that web page you linked attempting to critique him.
So, is a homicide detective a murderer?

Your logic may be good (eh) but your premise is #1 grade BS.
Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

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Online BillO

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Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1566 on: June 09, 2022, 03:09:09 AM »
i'd love to get a citation on "hundreds of soccer players per month are dying on the field." i do not believe that at all.
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1567 on: June 09, 2022, 03:12:07 AM »
As far as I can tell, Ryan Cole is still a doctor and a pathologist, no matter what detractors may criticize him for. As he his a doctor, it means that he is an authority and his opinion has merit.

i'd love to get a citation on "hundreds of soccer players per month are dying on the field." i do not believe that at all.

He said athletes, not only soccer players. We saw on the previous pages that the numbers increased quite significantly, to which Markjo blames opioid abuse.

Tom displaying a profound lack of critical faculty by assuming this is COVID vaccine connected.

Actually it plays perfectly into the litany of sports related heart incidents which started after introduction of the Covid vaccine.

2021 held the record for most FIFA players to die on the field. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing

See: 5-fold increase in sudden cardiac deaths of FIFA players in 2021



Correlation equals causation in Tom’s world.

Correlation is not necessarily causation. But there is no causation without correlation.

https://goodsciencing.com/covid/athletes-suffer-cardiac-arrest-die-after-covid-shot/

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The International Olympic Committee in Lausanne, Switzerland, studied documents from international data banks from 1966 to 2004. Those documents indicate 1,101 sudden deaths in athletes under 35 years of age, an average of 29 athletes per year, the sports with the highest incidence being soccer and basketball. (NIH Document)

A study by Maron on sudden death in US athletes, from 1980 to 2006 in thirty-eight sports identified 1,866 deaths of athletes with cardiac disease, with a prevalence of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

2005 to 2006 averaged sixty-six (66) deaths per year, with 82% of those occurring during competition or training.

Thanks to investigator readers for discovering these reports, and this story in Spanish. Momento Deportivo.

In 2021 and 2022 so far, cardiac disease has not been mentioned. Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy was mentioned twice, but those two reports were listed in the “not vax related” list. “Enlarged heart” was only mentioned three times, but there was no indication this was a long-term or recent issue (possibly due to vaccine injury).

The above shows that in prior years, there were 66 deaths per year, but there have been 86 reported in January 2022, so far.


https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

Quote
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 03:14:50 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Online BillO

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1568 on: June 09, 2022, 03:34:14 AM »
I love how Tommy quote stats from Islamic sources.  Your kind of folks, eh Tom?

So, tell me Tom, would you maybe expect that a bunch of athletes that have been asked to sit on the bench for nearly 2 years to have a little touch of cardiovascular atrophy?  Might this condition cause a uptick in heart related failure when strenuous exertion suddenly begins?

I mean, you may be right.  I have not gone over all the data collected worldwide (neither has anyone else btw) but it seems to me that someone of your level of education might want a little assurance about what literally anybody can post on the internet is correct before you stand behind it as though it was your first born male (I say male because you haven't shown much respect for women) child's university education (like that will ever be a thing).
Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1569 on: June 09, 2022, 03:43:02 AM »
If you wanted to count up the FIFA deaths yourself to verify the graph you could go to the Wikipedia page linked and count up the articles - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing

I did. Each death is associated with a news article. There were significantly more deaths in 2021. When a player dies on the field it is a major event which generates news articles. It is not an obscure unreported or unpublicized death, and is more ideal of a metric than trying to find out information on less reported populations.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 03:45:35 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Online BillO

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1570 on: June 09, 2022, 04:31:29 AM »
That doesn't address my question(s).

People die.  Sometimes more readily than others.  What is your proof that recent deaths of soccer players were as a result of their being vaccinated for COVID-19?  Just quoting "numbers" is not sufficient.  You have to present an inarguable relationship. Otherwise, more research is required.

What data do you have to reject other possible causes?  Do you have all the raw data and the education to do the required analysis?

Seriously Bob, your sources are VERY suspect.  Your bias had been prominently presented.  You are not credible.  Sorry.

Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1571 on: June 09, 2022, 04:45:42 AM »
As far as I can tell, Ryan Cole is still a doctor and a pathologist, no matter what detractors may criticize him for. As he his a doctor, it means that he is an authority and his opinion has merit.

Since we’re playing that game, your:

As he his a doctor, it means that he is an authority and his opinion has merit.

Here are two Drs that call BS on this whole thing, (of the cardiologist, sports medicine expertise variety. Unlike your Dr. Cole who claimed vax's cause cancer and then went on to misdiagnose 2 patients telling them they had cancer when they didn’t.)

- Jonathan Drezner, MD (UW Medicine Center for Sports Cardiology, Seattle)
- Eugene Chung, MD (University of Michigan, Ann Arbor), chair of the American College of Cardiology’s Sports and Exercise Cardiology Council,

Reports of Sudden Deaths Among Athletes After COVID-19 Vax Are ‘Misinformation’
The problem with these claims, experts say, is that there’s no evidence conclusively connecting COVID-19 vaccination to any sudden deaths among athletes.

“I think those links are completely false information,” said Jonathan Drezner, MD (UW Medicine Center for Sports Cardiology, Seattle), editor-in-chief of the British Journal of Sports Medicine. “Many of those cases have other diagnosed conditions and even occurred before the pandemic started—so there’s nothing to this.”

Drezner works with the National Center for Catastrophic Sport Injury Research, which aims to monitor all cases of sudden cardiac arrest and death among competitive athletes from middle school up through the professional level, and he said “I am not aware of any COVID-19 vaccine-related athletic death that’s occurred.”

Eugene Chung, MD (University of Michigan, Ann Arbor), chair of the American College of Cardiology’s Sports and Exercise Cardiology Council, echoed that, saying, “The sports cardiology community is a pretty tight-knit community and we talk frequently and many of us have been involved with the cohort studies that have been published over the last year-and-a-half . . . and in those studies, there have been no cases that have been confirmed that have been due to the vaccine.”


So it looks like my two cardiologists trump your one pathologist in the ‘they are authorities and their combined opinions have more merit.

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1572 on: June 09, 2022, 07:59:42 AM »
As far as I can tell, Ryan Cole is still a doctor and a pathologist, no matter what detractors may criticize him for. As he his a doctor, it means that he is an authority and his opinion has merit.
And is his opinion the medical consensus?
If not then this is you cherry picking. Again.

You have an agenda so you link to an article which you think confirms that. Except that article doesn't mention vaccines or Covid. Not once. So why are you posting that in this thread? Then after a bit more Googling you find a doctor who thinks what you think. Hooray, another cherry!

As I keep pointing out, you are only interested in a person's "authority" if they are saying what you want to hear. Authorities on, say, the shape of the earth are dismissed by you. I have pointed out to you before that there are a million medical doctors in the US alone. Are you expecting complete unanimity of opinion in a population of a million people? So it's easy to find outliers who will say pretty much whatever you want. Only appealing to their authority of people who are saying what you want and ignoring those who do not is dishonest and fallacious.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1573 on: June 09, 2022, 11:48:49 AM »
Here are two Drs that call BS on this whole thing, (of the cardiologist, sports medicine expertise variety. Unlike your Dr. Cole who claimed vax's cause cancer and then went on to misdiagnose 2 patients telling them they had cancer when they didn’t.)

- Jonathan Drezner, MD (UW Medicine Center for Sports Cardiology, Seattle)
- Eugene Chung, MD (University of Michigan, Ann Arbor), chair of the American College of Cardiology’s Sports and Exercise Cardiology Council,

Reports of Sudden Deaths Among Athletes After COVID-19 Vax Are ‘Misinformation’
The problem with these claims, experts say, is that there’s no evidence conclusively connecting COVID-19 vaccination to any sudden deaths among athletes.

Actually that article says that "there’s no evidence conclusively connecting COVID-19 vaccination to any sudden deaths among athletes"

They say that they don't have evidence and don't know. That is not an argument that the vaccination is not causing the deaths. If you are declaring that you do not have any evidence either way it means that you are a poor researcher and need to do a better job at getting the science.

Please do continue to cite articles where researchers declare that they don't know. They are totally convincing.  ::)

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Offline Iceman

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1574 on: June 09, 2022, 12:02:37 PM »
Don’t quote rational people saying rational things guys, it’s not fair!

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1575 on: June 09, 2022, 12:12:55 PM »
Dr. Cole does not claim that there is "conclusive" evidence in his interviews and media. He is expressing a concern on the connection and points out that the vaccine was introduced during the time period. The doctors in that link say that there is no "conclusive" evidence. As far as I can see Dr. Cole and those doctors are in agreement on the matter of the existence of conclusive evidence.

If you thought that the article disproved or contradicted something Dr. Cole said, you are incorrect.

If you think that it contradicts Dr. Cole, you would need to point out where he said that there was conclusive evidence. He did not say that, so it is a bunk argument from the start.

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1576 on: June 09, 2022, 12:16:03 PM »
You can't trust doctors or anything they say.
Remember Dr. Sherri Tenpenny, a leading medical expert censored by the media, she said the vaccine was turning people magnetic. She was harassed by the mainstream medical industry even though they had no conclusive evidence she was wrong.




Turns out, it's all bullshit. Dude, I wanted to be magnetized. I got three vaccines and still no magnetic anything.
I was going to be Magneto but turns out the these anti vax freaks were just making shit up. It's like they're just saying what we want to hear.
Can you believe it?

Fortunately, through direct Zetetic observation, I saw the truth.
My hate for you and everything you stand for is so much deeper than the depths of Shambala that you could probably take the entire Lungmen population down there and back up around twenty million times before you would have sunk to the end of my hate.



Round Earther patiently looking for a better deal...

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1577 on: June 09, 2022, 12:22:23 PM »
You can't trust doctors or anything they say.
Remember Dr. Sherri Tenpenny, a leading medical expert censored by the media, she said the vaccine was turning people magnetic. She was harassed by the mainstream medical industry even though they had no conclusive evidence she was wrong.

The concept of experimentation exists. It was possible to prove that claim wrong, but they didn't have the evidence, as you admit yourself. The harassers had no conclusive evidence, which was problematic. They didn't care enough to bother to fund the experiments. They just decided to harass. It demonstrates that the idea that the group think always represents real and conclusive evidence is false.

The situation here is thinking that the claim of not having conclusive evidence on the increase of sudden deaths is evidence that the vaccines were not involved. This is fallacious, to say the least.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 12:39:26 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1578 on: June 09, 2022, 12:38:05 PM »
Please do continue to cite articles where researchers declare that they don't know. They are totally convincing.  ::)
The first "article" you posted, from the Daily Mail, said the reason for the rise was unknown. The headline called it a "Mystery".
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1579 on: June 09, 2022, 04:10:15 PM »
You can't trust doctors or anything they say.
Remember Dr. Sherri Tenpenny, a leading medical expert censored by the media, she said the vaccine was turning people magnetic. She was harassed by the mainstream medical industry even though they had no conclusive evidence she was wrong.

The concept of experimentation exists. It was possible to prove that claim wrong, but they didn't have the evidence, as you admit yourself. The harassers had no conclusive evidence, which was problematic. They didn't care enough to bother to fund the experiments.

Did this "experiment" require funding? Is this not conclusive? (From the same hearing):