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Offline Cain

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #160 on: April 30, 2018, 02:52:58 PM »
I think you're all being too hard on poor Thork. If he wants to be wrong, that's his prerogative.
You just made my list, buddy.  >:(
this world does not have room for another mind as intelligent as yours.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #161 on: April 30, 2018, 03:21:25 PM »
I'm not sure why you have a problem with this.

Some of the power goes to other components via PCIe and other i/o. Therefore it isn't going to be heat on the die, is it? The power was transferred elsewhere. Also there are other ways to dissipate energy, such as electromagentic force, kinetic energy etc.

Not all the power into a CPU ends up as heat on the die. Its very simple.


Ok, seriously, how much power do you think a CPU sends when it passes instructions and data between itself and RAM or the ALU or whatever component its talking to? 


And given that data comes back TO the CPU, how much more data does a CPU send out than it takes it?  Cause it should be more in than out.  We don't take tiny data and make them bigger, we take big data and use it then tell something what to do.


So give us that, will ya?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #162 on: April 30, 2018, 05:02:24 PM »
Many modern cpus will downclock when they idle to conserve energy. I highly suggest you don't turn this feature off, as it makes an enormous difference in how much energy your computer is using while idling, or even while doing simple tasks. And yes, you could run a CPU with a x1 multiplier, though I imagine you'll get some undesirable performance issues if that happens.

This makes a big difference because every time the clock signal goes from low-to-high or high-to-low then it consumes energy. By downclocking, you're allowing the computer to save energy when you don't need high clocks to keep up with whatever you're doing. The processor doesn't really need to check its current state, say, at a rate of 3 GHz, when it really isn't doing anything that requires that kind of throughput.

For a more in-depth approach to all of this, you can read about clock-gating here: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/use-of-clock-gating-to-reduce-power-consumption/ (keep in mind this article is talking more about turning the clock on/off in embedded systems, not necessarily talking about clocks used by a x86 processor.)

The key takeaway from all of this is that a clock signal wastes energy, even when the circuit its governing isn't actually doing anything. The higher the clockrate, the more energy you waste.

Isn't the CPU downgrading strictly as a power save feature and people like me who turn that off don't see it downstep?

Why would you turn that off? You don't need your CPU's full power 99% of the time, because most programs are very rarely CPU-bound. Operating systems are very good at increasing the clock rate when needed, so there's no (or negligible) performance impact. You're just wasting electricity, as Rushy says, and possibly also making your fan louder than it needs to be.

Welp... I turned it back on.  Or what I thought was it.  (Green Power!)
Turns out... it doesn't seem to do much.  I'm still idling at full power according to Cpu-Z.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #163 on: April 30, 2018, 05:25:03 PM »
Not all the power into a CPU ends up as heat on the die.
The die, by itself, is irrelevant. Stop backpedalling and take your failure like a man.

Heat which ends up somewhere else inside your tightly-packed AiO still needs to find its way out of the case. This, by the way, is another fantastic reason for why your "heat pipes" ramble is completely misplaced.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #164 on: April 30, 2018, 05:33:17 PM »
Not all the power into a CPU ends up as heat on the die.
The die, by itself, is irrelevant. Stop backpedalling and take your failure like a man.

Heat which ends up somewhere else inside your tightly-packed AiO still needs to find its way out of the case. This, by the way, is another fantastic reason for why your "heat pipes" ramble is completely misplaced.
How is the die irrelevant when talking about TDP of a processor? You don't even know what you are arguing any more.

Also an AIO isn't tighly packed. Its has a 27inch screen and is 2 inches deep. Its got about 10 times as much space inside as a laptop, yet uses laptop components. The problem is the CPU and GPU (desktop components). And those have high TDPs that are dealt with by the heat pipes.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 05:34:57 PM by Baby Thork »
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #165 on: April 30, 2018, 05:36:35 PM »
How is the die irrelevant when talking about TDP of a processor? You don't even know what you are arguing any more.
The die by itself is irrelevant. Thork, you're gonna struggle in Brexit Britain if you don't learn our language.

Also an AIO isn't tighly packed. Its has a 27inch screen and is 3 inches deep. Its got about 10 times as much space inside as a laptop
Which is why I repeatedly told you to fuck off when you tried bringing up laptops.

yet uses laptop components.
No, your argument is the opposite of that. If you meant to say the opposite of what you said - well, that would explain why you're so horrendously wrong, but it doesn't make you look any better.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #166 on: April 30, 2018, 05:40:45 PM »
How is the die irrelevant when talking about TDP of a processor? You don't even know what you are arguing any more.
The die by itself is irrelevant. Thork, you're gonna struggle in Brexit Britain if you don't learn our language.
Don't you tell me how to speak English you dirty immigrant!  >o< It is not irrelevant when that 65W TDP of heat is the thing you have to deal with. <removed, R4> -junker

Also an AIO isn't tighly packed. Its has a 27inch screen and is 3 inches deep. Its got about 10 times as much space inside as a laptop
Which is why I repeatedly told you to fuck off when you tried bringing up laptops.
You still can't get desktop fans inside them ... you have to use heatpipes like on A LAPTOP!

yet uses laptop components.
No, your argument is the opposite of that. If you meant to say the opposite of what you said - well, that would explain why you're so horrendously wrong, but it doesn't make you look any better.
The sky is blue. Would you like to make an 8 page thread disputing that as well?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 04:45:20 PM by junker »
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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #167 on: April 30, 2018, 05:48:39 PM »
It is not irrelevant when that 65W TDP of heat is the thing you have to deal with.
Yes, now you're back from irrelevant to incorrect. 65W TDP is what the cooling solution directly interfacing with the CPU has to handle. It is not the full story when it comes to heat dissipation inside an AiO.
But it is how the AIO manages to deal with a desktop CPU.

You still can't get desktop fans inside them ... you have to use heatpipes like on A LAPTOP!
And? It's not like heat pipes are particularly new or exciting.
They are both new and exciting. They are what make time travel small form factor PCs possible. Show me a sff PC from 1995 with a full blown desktop CPU in it.

The sky is blue. Would you like to make an 8 page thread disputing that as well?
Only if you open it by saying "the sun is a peculiar shade of lime green, which is caused by a recent invention called the windmill" and then act very surprised when no one agrees with you. As you can see, I'm a sucker for these.

Bonus points if you get LD to believe you for a minute or two.
I'm happy to state the world is flat, and you never have any issue argeeing with me on that point.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #168 on: April 30, 2018, 05:49:03 PM »
A chip that isn't 'the coolest in decades' as you earlier bungled
That was you, darling.

No, I'm not running one of the coolest CPUs in decades.

I said this:

you're running one of the coolest CPUs available for desktops in the past 2 decades

It is not irrelevant when that 65W TDP of heat is the thing you have to deal with.
Yes, now you're back from irrelevant to incorrect. 65W TDP is what the cooling solution directly interfacing with the CPU has to handle. It is not the full story when it comes to heat dissipation inside an AiO.

You still can't get desktop fans inside them ... you have to use heatpipes like on A LAPTOP!
And? It's not like heat pipes are particularly new or exciting.

The sky is blue. Would you like to make an 8 page thread disputing that as well?
Only if you open it by saying "the sun is a peculiar shade of lime green, which is caused by a recent invention called the windmill" and then act very surprised when no one agrees with you. As you can see, I'm a sucker for these.

Bonus points if you get LD to believe you for a minute or two.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #169 on: April 30, 2018, 05:51:02 PM »
Well now you are deleting posts. You can see above my responses.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #170 on: April 30, 2018, 05:52:05 PM »
Well now you are deleting posts.
A minor technical difficulty, I wouldn't want to bother you with details, lest you might start vibrating. My post is still there in its entirety, with some additions for your enjoyment. You just happened to be wrong on a couple more things, so I added them for you :)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 05:57:52 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #171 on: April 30, 2018, 06:09:01 PM »
They are both new and exciting. They are what make time travel small form factor PCs possible. Show me a sff PC from 1995 with a full blown desktop CPU in it.

Thork, let me present to you the Unisys CWD-4002, a small form factor PC from 1995 with a full blown i486 desktop CPU.  :)


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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #172 on: April 30, 2018, 06:32:35 PM »
They are both new and exciting. They are what make time travel small form factor PCs possible. Show me a sff PC from 1995 with a full blown desktop CPU in it.

Thork, let me present to you the Unisys CWD-4002, a small form factor PC from 1995 with a full blown i486 desktop CPU.  :)


Had a TDP of 10-12W. Doesn't need heatpipes like the 65W monster in my AIO.  ;)

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #173 on: April 30, 2018, 06:35:18 PM »
Had a TDP of 10-12W. Doesn't need heatpipes like the 65W monster in my AIO.  ;)

That's not what you asked for though is it.

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Offline junker

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #174 on: April 30, 2018, 06:41:53 PM »
I suppose that depends on what you hope to get out of a debate with someone online. If you just want to win, don't ever engage me. I'll never admit it even if I'm losing.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #175 on: April 30, 2018, 08:02:19 PM »
He realized he's wrong about five pages ago. This is just an effort to convince us he's trolling instead of just accepting that he's an idiot.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #176 on: April 30, 2018, 08:25:09 PM »
He realized he's wrong about five pages ago. This is just an effort to convince us he's trolling instead of just accepting that he's an idiot.

>implying doubt on the subject
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #177 on: May 01, 2018, 03:55:15 PM »
So back to the subject of me getting a new PC ...

What I have ordered comes with an m.2 ssd. Reads and write around 500Mb/s.

Having currently got an NVMe in my NUC, I'm not keen on this backward step.

I'm thinking of dropping a Samsung 970 250GB card in ... this means new windows installation and voiding my dell warrenty... but it also means no Dell crapware. So its two birds with one stone. Think that one reads at 3200 Mb/s. 6 times faster.


I don't want to take the one out my NUC. My girlfriend is having this PC when I'm done with it. Seems a hassle to give her the ssd in the new PC and then load everything back on for her. The new NVMe should last about 3 years (I usually get a new computer every 3 years or less).
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 04:00:36 PM by Baby Thork »
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Offline junker

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #178 on: May 01, 2018, 04:47:18 PM »
Don't you tell me how to speak English you dirty immigrant!  >o< It is not irrelevant when that 65W TDP of heat is the thing you have to deal with. <removed, R4> -junker

Cool it with the personal attacks, even if it is "just a joke." And don't put any information about people that can identify them unless they have explicitly permitted it. Warned.

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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: Ordered a new computer
« Reply #179 on: May 01, 2018, 04:55:53 PM »
I don't think when there are around 1 million immigrants from said nation you can't say that information is 'personally identifiable'. Posting images of my face, as you have done with no reprimand ... that's different. I'm the only one with my face.

Yes, the 'personal attack' was a joke. I'm sure Pete didn't view it any other way, but I'll respect feelings and all that other PC nonsense for the future.

You heartless bastard.
One might argue this is a personal attack as it is aimed squarely at me and calls into question my legitimacy ... but its also a joke so ...  :-\
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 05:02:24 PM by Baby Thork »
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