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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: I am wondering why I do not see...
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2024, 06:46:38 PM »
Yes, the RE Earth is tilted in relation to the Ecliptic, and the the area of the Earth deviates to the North or South a bit, but I still would not expect those shapes, locations, or angles the shadow appears and takes. In Round Earth Theory, during the Total Solar Eclipse the Moon is in alignment with the Sun and Earth, on the Ecliptic, so I would expect the shadow to appear on the line of the Ecliptic upon the Earth -- the plane of the Sun-Earth system.

I would expect the Total Solar Eclipse shadow to appear here on this path upon the Earth:



The Total Solar Eclipse occurs when the Moon is aligned with the Ecliptic and the Sun:

https://www.space.com/solar-eclipses-all-ring-shaped-future



Here is a Partial Eclipse, as seen from Earth:

https://rwoconne.github.io/rwoclass/astr1230/4.2-eclipses.html

"Viewed on the celestial sphere from the Earth, the node is where the Moon's celestial path crosses the ecliptic. See the diagram below (click for enlargement). Only if the Sun and Moon are both near the node at the same time can a solar eclipse occur. If the Sun and Moon are both near enough to the node but the alignment is not perfect, a partial eclipse will occur, as in the figure"



Why is the Moon's shadow at the time of the Total Solar Eclipse placed elsewhere other than the plane of the ecliptic upon the earth? The time of the Total Eclipse should be where the Moon intersects the Sun on the Ecliptic.

The "Path of Totality", where the Moon completely completely covers the Sun in Total Solar Eclipse, and the point where the Moon crosses the Ecliptic in the sky to the observer, is often visible to observers from a very odd shape upon the Earth. All of the observers on this darkened path see the Moon completely covering the sun in complete totality:

https://www.exploratorium.edu/eclipse/2024-total-solar-eclipse-guide



I understand the desire to obfuscate, but it is clear that there is something not explained here.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 09:09:51 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline WTF_Seriously

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Re: I am wondering why I do not see...
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2024, 10:16:32 PM »

Why is the Moon's shadow at the time of the Total Solar Eclipse placed elsewhere other than the plane of the ecliptic upon the earth? The time of the Total Eclipse should be where the Moon intersects the Sun on the Ecliptic.


The simple and obvious answer to this is because the earth's not flat with the sun and moon circling above it around a central point.  You've asked the exact question that proves the FE model false.

During a solar eclipse, the declination of the moon and sun are identical.  In the FE world that puts two objects of nearly equal size directly on top of each other over the exact same latitude line.  IF FE were true, at the time of the total eclipse totality must occur at a latitude equal the declination of both.  Having the time of the eclipse occur toward the polar latitudes is geometrically impossible.

It is the fact that you have objects orbiting and rotating on different planes that gives you the answer to your question.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: I am wondering why I do not see...
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2024, 10:34:01 PM »
Quote from: WTF_Seriously
It is the fact that you have objects orbiting and rotating on different planes that gives you the answer to your question.

They are not on different planes during the Total Solar Eclipse.

During the Total Solar Eclipse the Sun and Moon are on the same plane with the Earth, the Ecliptic. The Moon is on the Ecliptic during the Total Solar Eclipse.

https://socratic.org/questions/why-don-t-we-have-eclipses-every-month



"The lunar orbit around Earth is tilted 5.8 degrees to ecliptic apparent path of Sun. Moon goes round the Earth once in 27 days 8 hours. But full moon to full moon is 29.5 days. Eclipses happen only at the point of intersection of both these orbits called nodes."

The Total Solar Eclipse can only occur when the Moon intersects the Ecliptic and the Sun.

The Ecliptic intersects the Earth here as in the previous figure we saw:



The highest apex above the Equator the Ecliptic touches on the Earth's surface is the Tropic of Cancer. The Tropic of Cancer clearly cuts through Mexico, at a lower latitude than the USA:



Yet in the recent April 2024 eclipse, the Path of Totality where observers could see the Total Solar Eclipse looked like this. The people in these cities saw a Total Solar Eclipse:




For some reason the Path of Totality was above the Tropic of Cancer, and was angled northward towards Maine. Why is this?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2024, 02:58:20 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline AATW

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Re: I am wondering why I do not see...
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2024, 01:42:17 PM »
In Round Earth Theory, during the Total Solar Eclipse the Moon is in alignment with the Sun and Earth, on the Ecliptic, so I would expect the shadow to appear on the line of the Ecliptic upon the Earth -- the plane of the Sun-Earth system.

Right. I see what you're saying. This is all horribly out of scale but I think it illustrates the principle of how eclipses can appear at different latitudes:



In the top diagram the sun, moon and earth are exactly aligned. In that case yes, the shadow appears on that plane.
In the second diagram I've moved the moon up a few pixels - that represents a tiny misalignment but small enough that the shadow still hits the earth, just at a different latitude. In that example it's hitting the north pole and you'll note that the shadow covers a far larger area - the width of the shadow cast by the moon in a vertical direction isn't different, it's just because of the angle of the ground with respect to that shadow it coverers a wider area.
In the third diagram I've moved the moon up further and that's when the shadow misses the earth completely, which is what happens most of the time.

Then you have the complication of the earth spinning. The speed of the ground varies with latitude of course whereas the shadow moves at a constant speed, so that complicates how the path moves. Again, you're mapping a 2D disc of the shadow path on to a 3D spinning object. There is some complexity here.

Your attitude seems to be if you don't understand something then it can't be true. You've said that eclipse paths make more sense on a FE, but all you have to back that up is a series of arcs drawn on a FE map, but you've agreed elsewhere that there is no definitive FE map. I mentioned the Santiago to Sydney flight which was in the air as I was typing, the route of which makes no sense on that map. I note those images come from the Wiki, I had a look at the page about it and it gives no details about how eclipses work on a FE - there's no diagram which explains it like there is for RE.
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Re: I am wondering why I do not see...
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2024, 10:21:32 AM »


Why is the Moon's shadow at the time of the Total Solar Eclipse placed elsewhere other than the plane of the ecliptic upon the earth? The time of the Total Eclipse should be where the Moon intersects the Sun on the Ecliptic.

The "Path of Totality", where the Moon completely completely covers the Sun in Total Solar Eclipse, and the point where the Moon crosses the Ecliptic in the sky to the observer, is often visible to observers from a very odd shape upon the Earth. All of the observers on this darkened path see the Moon completely covering the sun in complete totality:

https://www.exploratorium.edu/eclipse/2024-total-solar-eclipse-guide




If you plot that path on an actual globe, you will see it's a perfect RE-based arc (in 3D that is). If you look at that line straight on, it will be straight, and in perfect sync with RE theory.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2024, 12:53:02 AM by stevecanuck »
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Re: I am wondering why I do not see...
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2024, 08:11:13 PM »
Quite by chance I came across this short explanation of the path of an eclipse on a round earth:



You might find it answers some of the above questions.
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.

Offline Action80

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Re: I am wondering why I do not see...
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2024, 05:20:26 PM »
Quite by chance I came across this short explanation of the path of an eclipse on a round earth:



You might find it answers some of the above questions.
If there was ever more solid evidence of a pure bot thread response than ^this, I would be shocked.

Reposts a video already posted in the same thread and introduces it as something happened upon "quite by chance."

I mean, you're shitting me, right?
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

Re: I am wondering why I do not see...
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2024, 05:58:16 PM »
..Reposts a video already posted in the same thread ...

Why so I have, how embarrassing.  :o  Very careless of me, I apologise.
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.