Offline Action80

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2022, 06:10:32 PM »
We send space craft to Mars (a trip of about 300 million miles) based on the standard solar system view (i.e. RE).
....
What exactly do you not understand?  The TRIP takes nearly 300Million miles (something like 292.5 if you want more accuracy).  https://mars.nasa.gov/news/8785/nasas-perseverance-rover-is-midway-to-mars/

That you profess to believe that doubling the average distance is somehow resulting in high efficiency is only a statement of the depth of delusion you are in.

Sad.
Covering distance in the vacuum of space once at speed is essential free, you can coast forever.  It's accelerating (to gain or reduce speed) that takes fuel and hence is expensive.  Reaching the destination in a reasonable time by coasting as much as possible and accelerating as little as possible is the goal.

No, he didn't make a mistake in writing.
He wrote "trip."
Correct, thank you.

His mistake is believing that nonsense to begin with.

The NASA claim comes from human beings who have the same difficulty in making sense of how to wash dishes in their homes or how to brush their goddamn teeth properly, let alone making sense of what the universe is like beyond what they can see with their own two eyes.
If you do not believe in the existence of anything you have not seen with your own eyes, how many places on teh earth have you visited?  Do the others not exist?  You must not think anything at the atomic/molecular scale exists either.  How do you explain the vast ways that we manipulate that world for the chemistry of pretty much everything around you to atomic power, or electromagnetic radiation?   When you are listening to the radio or watching television is that some sort of magic?  Likewise for the electrons wizzing around the device you are looking at right now.  None of them are visible, so how is your computer working?
None of what I wrote is dismissive of the existence of things outside my literal or figurative field of view. It is a statement of the distinct failure of humanity admitting their shortcomings and lack of understanding for those easily attainable things surrounding us; and their predilection to claim to "know," things that could not possibly be known.

https://archive.org/details/kingsdethronedhi00hickrich/page/n5/mode/2up
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #61 on: March 24, 2022, 06:42:28 PM »
None of what I wrote is dismissive of the existence of things outside my literal or figurative field of view. It is a statement of the distinct failure of humanity admitting their shortcomings and lack of understanding for those easily attainable things surrounding us; and their predilection to claim to "know," things that could not possibly be known.

https://archive.org/details/kingsdethronedhi00hickrich/page/n5/mode/2up
OK, this:
I believe in what I can sense and mentally fathom.

I can point to the things present around me, occupying the areas I have been or am in, and state, "I understand ..."

And that is just for a very small portion of things.

To claim I can look at things I do not have access to and lay any sort of claim consisting of, "THIS IS REALITY," is just nutso thinking.
Seemed to be to being saying exactly that, but ok.  There are very likely things we can not know or maybe even ask reasonable questions about (like what came before the universe, since that question makes no sense if time started with the universe).  But having only read the preface to KindsDethroned its author is clearly making the classic claim of those whose work can not be replicated by others.  It is not governments nor institutions that pass judgement on scientific claims but the work of other scientists, i.e. peer-review.  Further now, as opposed to in 1920's we have all the evidence of space travel.  To claim a work published only in the popular press 100 years ago somehow proves all of space travel (including the things we all can observe working, like GPS, sat TV, etc) must be false, seems quite ridiculous to me.
If "bendy light" were real the spot shape and power output of large solid-state lasers would vary depending on their orientation relative to the surface of the earth, but this is not observed thus bendy light is not real.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #62 on: March 24, 2022, 08:24:39 PM »
It is not governments nor institutions that pass judgement on scientific claims but the work of other scientists, i.e. peer-review.  Further now, as opposed to in 1920's we have all the evidence of space travel.  To claim a work published only in the popular press 100 years ago somehow proves all of space travel (including the things we all can observe working, like GPS, sat TV, etc) must be false, seems quite ridiculous to me.

In the 1920's government connected information was looked upon with skepticism. There were a lot of questionable medical experiments conducted by the federal government, forced sterilization of the disabled, questionable narratives about races, etc. If the government claimed something it might or might not be credible, and was generally untrusted. The government has had a tough time with honesty and integrity.

It has always been far more credible if multiple independent universities and independent scientific groups could verify it. Unfortunately all the the space travel claims are connected with government in some manner. Therefore it has not been peer reviewed. To believe this requires faith in government integrity.

Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2022, 08:36:10 PM »
It is not governments nor institutions that pass judgement on scientific claims but the work of other scientists, i.e. peer-review.  Further now, as opposed to in 1920's we have all the evidence of space travel.  To claim a work published only in the popular press 100 years ago somehow proves all of space travel (including the things we all can observe working, like GPS, sat TV, etc) must be false, seems quite ridiculous to me.

In the 1920's government connected information was looked upon with skepticism. There were a lot of questionable medical experiments conducted by the federal government, forced sterilization of the disabled, questionable narratives about races, etc. If the government claimed something it might or might not be credible, and was generally untrusted. The government has had a tough time with honesty and integrity.

It has always been far more credible if multiple independent universities and independent scientific groups could verify it. Unfortunately all the the space travel claims are connected with government in some manner. Therefore it has not been peer reviewed. To believe this requires faith in government integrity.
Which government?

Please explain how satellite broadcasting works with geosynchronous satellites.  The angles of dishes are 100% consistent with a round earth.

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Offline stack

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #64 on: March 24, 2022, 09:15:21 PM »
It is not governments nor institutions that pass judgement on scientific claims but the work of other scientists, i.e. peer-review.  Further now, as opposed to in 1920's we have all the evidence of space travel.  To claim a work published only in the popular press 100 years ago somehow proves all of space travel (including the things we all can observe working, like GPS, sat TV, etc) must be false, seems quite ridiculous to me.

In the 1920's government connected information was looked upon with skepticism. There were a lot of questionable medical experiments conducted by the federal government, forced sterilization of the disabled, questionable narratives about races, etc. If the government claimed something it might or might not be credible, and was generally untrusted. The government has had a tough time with honesty and integrity.

It has always been far more credible if multiple independent universities and independent scientific groups could verify it. Unfortunately all the the space travel claims are connected with government in some manner. Therefore it has not been peer reviewed. To believe this requires faith in government integrity.

So anything "connected with government in some manner" can't be peer reviewed? Does this apply to all governments? How do you define "connected with government", specifically?

Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #65 on: March 24, 2022, 10:51:42 PM »
So anything "connected with government in some manner" can't be peer reviewed? Does this apply to all governments? How do you define "connected with government", specifically?

Airbags have government involvement, immediately remove them from your car!

Offline Action80

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #66 on: March 25, 2022, 11:42:38 AM »
None of what I wrote is dismissive of the existence of things outside my literal or figurative field of view. It is a statement of the distinct failure of humanity admitting their shortcomings and lack of understanding for those easily attainable things surrounding us; and their predilection to claim to "know," things that could not possibly be known.

https://archive.org/details/kingsdethronedhi00hickrich/page/n5/mode/2up
OK, this:
I believe in what I can sense and mentally fathom.

I can point to the things present around me, occupying the areas I have been or am in, and state, "I understand ..."

And that is just for a very small portion of things.

To claim I can look at things I do not have access to and lay any sort of claim consisting of, "THIS IS REALITY," is just nutso thinking.
Seemed to be to being saying exactly that, but ok.  There are very likely things we can not know or maybe even ask reasonable questions about (like what came before the universe, since that question makes no sense if time started with the universe).  But having only read the preface to KindsDethroned its author is clearly making the classic claim of those whose work can not be replicated by others.  It is not governments nor institutions that pass judgement on scientific claims but the work of other scientists, i.e. peer-review.  Further now, as opposed to in 1920's we have all the evidence of space travel.  To claim a work published only in the popular press 100 years ago somehow proves all of space travel (including the things we all can observe working, like GPS, sat TV, etc) must be false, seems quite ridiculous to me.
I am wondering how the concept of "believing in things that are understood," excludes either faith or belief in things not understood.

You were given a text to review, offering an explanation and further insight into the foundation of my view as to why flat earth exists and space (as pitched by world-wide con men), does not exist.

You're not interested and fine.

See ya.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #67 on: March 26, 2022, 01:46:10 AM »
So anything "connected with government in some manner" can't be peer reviewed? Does this apply to all governments? How do you define "connected with government", specifically?

Airbags have government involvement, immediately remove them from your car!

Not sure why you are choosing to point out airbags as a reason for why we should blindly trust the government. One of the largest automotive safety recalls in history was an airbag. It occurred due to poor government oversight and regulations. It's a good example for why the government should not be implicitly trusted.

https://web.archive.org/web/20201126234937/https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/business/takata-airbag-recall-crisis.html

« Last Edit: March 26, 2022, 02:08:47 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #68 on: March 26, 2022, 02:29:07 AM »
So anything "connected with government in some manner" can't be peer reviewed? Does this apply to all governments? How do you define "connected with government", specifically?

Airbags have government involvement, immediately remove them from your car!

Not sure why you are choosing to point out airbags as a reason for why we should blindly trust the government. One of the largest automotive safety recalls in history was an airbag. It occurred due to poor government oversight and regulations. It's a good example for why the government should not be implicitly trusted.

No one is saying a government should be defacto "trusted". But it cuts both ways. Governments should be questioned with skepticism, but not just blindly untrusted in all circumstances. And not trusting a government to provide blanket infallible oversight, in this case, airbags, doesn't mean that airbags don't exist and they are lying about the existence of airbags.

Your argument is akin to government not providing the proper safety regulations oversight for a private enterprise launching a satellite into space, because of which, the satellite ultimately failed spectacularly and plummeted to the ground and destroyed structures and killed people. Doesn't mean the satellite didn't exist, wasn't up in space, and not capturing images of earth from 22,000 miles away.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #69 on: March 26, 2022, 10:24:30 AM »
Not sure why you are choosing to point out airbags as a reason for why we should blindly trust the government. One of the largest automotive safety recalls in history was an airbag. It occurred due to poor government oversight and regulations. It's a good example for why the government should not be implicitly trusted.

... but how is this relevant to Echostar? You quoted one line from a text written by "members or employees of Near Earth LLC, a small FINRA licensed broker-dealer focused on providing investment banking and consulting services to the commercial space and satellite sectors." which (paraphrased) said that NASA had laid the groundwork for commercial space activities. You didn't show any direct government involvement in Echostar beyond this. (Section "Definition of Commercial Space" on p 14 of 228)


The satellite mentioned in the video is Echostar 11 (eleven). From Wikipedia;

"EchoStar XI, also known as EchoStar 11, is an American geostationary communications satellite which is operated by EchoStar on behalf of Dish Network. It is positioned in Geostationary orbit at a longitude of 110° West, from where it is used to provide direct broadcasting services to the United States.  EchoStar XI was built by SSL, and is based on the LS-1300 satellite bus. It is equipped with .... The satellite was launched using a Sea Launch Zenit-3SL carrier rocket flying from the Ocean Odyssey launch platform."

---

"The Zenit-3SL is an expendable carrier rocket operated by Sea Launch. ...  It is a member of the Zenit family of rockets, and is built by the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau. RKK Energia produces the Block DM-SL upper stage, whilst the payload fairing is produced by Boeing. Launches are conducted from the Ocean Odyssey platform anchored on the equator in the Pacific Ocean, at a point with 154°W longitude, about 370 kilometres east of Kiritimati."

- - -

"Sea Launch was a multinational spacecraft launch company founded in 1995 that provided orbital launch services from 1999–2014. The company used a mobile maritime launch platform for equatorial launches of commercial payloads on specialized Zenit-3SL rockets from the former mobile/floating oil drilling rig renamed Odyssey.

By 2014, it had assembled and launched thirty-two rockets, with an additional three failures and one partial failure. All commercial payloads were communications satellites intended for geostationary transfer orbit with such customers as EchoStar, DirecTV, XM Satellite Radio, PanAmSat, and Thuraya.

The approach Sea Launch LLC used was to assemble the launcher on a purpose-built ship Sea Launch Commander in California. The assembled spacecraft was then positioned on top of the self-propelled Odyssey floating launch platform and moved to the equatorial Pacific Ocean for launch, with the Sea Launch Commander serving as command center ... The sea-based launch system means the rockets can be fired from the optimal position on Earth's surface, considerably increasing payload capacity and reducing launch costs compared to land-based systems.

The Zenit-3SL design began in the late 1980s as the Zenit-3, a proposed replacement for the Proton-K, which would have used a Zenit-2 rocket with a Block D upper stage. This proposal was shelved after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, as Russia inherited the space programme, however the Zenit was manufactured in Ukrainian SSR. Boeing became involved in the programme in 1994.

Sea Launch integrates the rockets in California, and transfers them to Odyssey via the Sea Launch Commander for transportation to the launch site. Once at the launch site, the rocket is erected on the platform, and a three-day countdown is initiated."



Which part of this should we regard as untrustworthy (American) government? The rocket was made in Ukraine, and launched from international waters, far from the US. The integration (final assembly) of the craft was done in California, but what evidence is there to show that either NASA or the US Govt had any direct involvement in that, to the extent that it renders belief in the overall mission invalid?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2022, 10:30:52 AM by Tumeni »
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2022, 08:13:47 AM »
…. You were given a text to review, offering an explanation and further insight into the foundation of my view as to why flat earth exists and space (as pitched by world-wide con men), does not exist.

An interesting read in some ways, but it would have been more impressive if you’d read Kings Dethroned with a little of the questioning approach found on these forums. The author is less than rigorous with his “facts”, free with his unsubstantiated opinions and just plain wrong with his figures. He kicks off in chapter 2 with Ole Roemer, but gets Roemer’s measurements wrong and his calculated results wrong too. This lack of care is to be found throughout the book. I’ll mention one more for now: the measurements made during the 19th century transits of Venus. The author states that only those made in Bermuda and Sabrina Land were used in the end, but if you look hard enough you’ll find the British made observations from Bermuda, but you won’t find observations made from, or an expedition to, Sabrina Land. Many expeditions were made to observe the transit, some successfully and others stymied by cloudy weather, but there were many more observations made than KD’s author concedes.

I don’t expect to change your mind, but I do expect you to check others’ opinions.
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.

Offline Action80

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2022, 10:45:11 AM »
…. You were given a text to review, offering an explanation and further insight into the foundation of my view as to why flat earth exists and space (as pitched by world-wide con men), does not exist.

An interesting read in some ways, but it would have been more impressive if you’d read Kings Dethroned with a little of the questioning approach found on these forums. The author is less than rigorous with his “facts”, free with his unsubstantiated opinions and just plain wrong with his figures. He kicks off in chapter 2 with Ole Roemer, but gets Roemer’s measurements wrong and his calculated results wrong too. This lack of care is to be found throughout the book. I’ll mention one more for now: the measurements made during the 19th century transits of Venus. The author states that only those made in Bermuda and Sabrina Land were used in the end, but if you look hard enough you’ll find the British made observations from Bermuda, but you won’t find observations made from, or an expedition to, Sabrina Land. Many expeditions were made to observe the transit, some successfully and others stymied by cloudy weather, but there were many more observations made than KD’s author concedes.

I don’t expect to change your mind, but I do expect you to check others’ opinions.
^ Am I to take this little ditty you post here as opinion?

You write a critique and get your very first error in stating Chapter 2 gives information regarding Ole Roemer.

Tell us all where Ole Roemer is found in Chapter 2.

You post absolutely zero substance, with just baseless claims that someone else "got it wrong."

Your whole post has got to be a farce!

That someone else was published and you are not.

C ya.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 01:25:37 PM by Action80 »
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Offline Gonzo

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2022, 11:32:56 AM »
I'm not sure the fact someone has written and published a book is a particularly high bar for quality content.

Offline Action80

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2022, 01:12:01 PM »
I'm not sure the fact someone has written and published a book is a particularly high bar for quality content.
Hey, at least you identified a fact today.

Progress in action, step by step.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #74 on: March 30, 2022, 01:52:03 AM »
An FAA document on the origins of the commercial space industry:

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/about/history/milestones/Commercial_Space_Industry.pdf

Origins of the Commercial Space Industry

' Between 1963 and 1982, U.S. expendable launch vehicle (ELV) manufacturers produced
vehicles only under contract to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) or
the Department of Defense (DOD).

...

On May 16, 1983, the President issued NSDD 94, “Commercialization of Expendable Launch
Vehicles.” This stated the “U.S. Government fully endorses and will facilitate the
commercialization of U.S. Expendable Launch Vehicles. The U.S. Government will license,
supervise, and/or regulate
U.S. commercial ELV operations only to the extent required to meet
its national and international obligations and to ensure public safety.” '

---------

A 1988 document of interest, about NASA commercialization:

https://commons.erau.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2121&context=space-congress-proceedings

NASA SUPPORT TO COMMERCIAL ELV'S

' NASA endorses the development of U.S. private sector launching capabilities and has proceeded to transfer authority to the private sector to use NASA- controlled facilities and capabilities for commercial launchings. NASA facilitates the private sector operations of ELV's by identifying the necessary support and determining the transition means. Agreements are negotiated to provide assistance, services f and facilities as may be available. A number of these agreements either have been executed or are in various stages of negotiation.
NASA employs two basic types of agreements in the commercial ELY area. Under the first type, called an "umbrella" agreement, the parties agree to the general scope of their commitments. This agreement includes a general description of NASA resources which would be made available on a noninterference basis, means of handling disputes and other necessary understandings. Under the authority of the umbrella agreement, NASA field installations can enter into secondary "subagreements" which specify the NASA facilities and equipment which will be made available and the specific charges for use of such equipment. These subagreements are negotiated by the NASA field installations having
responsibility for the facilities and equipment to be used.

NASA provides support in both the privatization and the commercialization of ELV's. Since there is at times some confusion concerning the terms "privatization" and "commercialization," it is important to define them at this point. "Privatization" is defined as shifting to the private sector for the acquisition of goods or services required to conduct NASA programs. In the context of ELV's, privatization is turning over to the private sector ELV's which were developed under past NASA contracts. ELV's in this category include Atlas/Centaur, Delta, and Scout. "Commercialization" is defined as encouraging and facilitating domestic private sector applications of the products, knowledge, or services resulting or derived from space activities. In the context of ELV's, commercialization is the development of ELV's by the private sector. An ELY in this category is the Conestoga launch vehicle. As of the date of this paper (January 1988), NASA has executed one privatization and one commercialization ELY agreement, and a number of others are in various stages of negotiation and coordination.

ELV PRIVATIZATION

General Dynamics - Atlas/Centaur

NASA published a Request for Expressions of Interest (REI) for privatization of the Atlas/Centaur which appeared in the June 21, 1983, edition of Commerce
Business Daily (CBD). This led to publication of a Request for Proposals (RFP) which appeared on September 9, 1983. General Dynamics (GD) was the only responder to the RFP, submitting their original proposal in November 1983. When the agreement was signed on March 26, 1987, it became the first U.S. Government agreement transferring operation of a Government-developed ELV to the private sector. A subagreement is being developed to incorporate the use of specific services and property including: security and communications; payload calibration; institutional support; and technical assistance for payload processing and pre-launch mission management.

Since signing the agreement, GD has announced that they will start construction of 18 commercial Atlas G/Centaurs. The vehicle, which will be commercially
available in 1989, can deliver a 5,200-pound payload to geostationary orbit. The company also announced future plans to develop an advanced version which can send 6,650 pounds to geostationary orbit.

...

CONCLUSION

The fledgling U.S. commercial ELV industry represents a major milestone for business investment in space, much like the first communications satellite companies whose goal was to develop a market for satellite-based breakthroughs in communication technology. Competition from foreign launch vehicles will be a clear and growing challenge to these emerging commercial endeavors, firms, for years under contract to the U.S. Government, have mastered technology required to send payloads into orbit. The challenge to these in the last decade of the 20th century will be to demonstrate the viability of private sector space launches. NASA must, and will help. '
« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 02:03:28 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #75 on: March 30, 2022, 05:42:44 AM »
Looks like NASA didn't play a role in Echostar IX. The rocket was a Zenit-3SL. Russian. With some fins from Boeing. NASA has logs of pretty much every rocket ever launched from all nations. From the NASA site regarding all rocket launches, here, specifically, Echostar IX:



For example, here's NASA info on a Russian satellite rocket launch in 2001:



NASA data on a Chinese satellite rocket launch:



I'm pretty sure NASA doesn't play a role in any Chinese space missions.

Echostar IX was under the purview of the International Telecommunications Satellite Corporation (ITSO):
ITSO is an intergovernmental organization with 149-member states, that incorporates the principle set forth in Resolution 1721 (XVI) of the General Assembly of the United Nations, which established that communication by means of satellite should be available to the nations of the world as soon as practicable on a global and non-discriminatory basis.

Looks like more of a UN connection, if anything, and not NASA.

Offline Gonzo

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #76 on: March 30, 2022, 06:22:41 AM »
I'm not sure the fact someone has written and published a book is a particularly high bar for quality content.
Hey, at least you identified a fact today.

Progress in action, step by step.

Lovely to hear from you again, I’d really appreciate it if you could point out where I’ve not been using facts.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #77 on: March 30, 2022, 06:30:22 AM »
An FAA document on the origins of the commercial space industry:

Origins of the Commercial Space Industry

' Between 1963 and 1982, U.S. expendable launch vehicle (ELV) manufacturers produced
vehicles only under contract to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) or
the Department of Defense (DOD).

etc

The Echostar launch took place 21 years later. (EDIT - I see the report was dated 1988 - so approx 15 years later, not 21)

Cherry-picking from a document discussing a "fledgling" industry in 1983 or thereabouts carries no weight in showing American Government involvement in Echostar.

"The U.S. Government will license, supervise, and/or regulate U.S. commercial ELV operations only to the extent required to meet its national and international obligations and to ensure public safety.” "

(I draw an analogy with motoring again. The UK Government "licences, supervises and regulates" motor vehicles on our roads. I pay an annual road tax, without which I cannot take the car on the road,  and I'm required to take any car over 3 years old to a regulated testing station once per year for safety checks. All drivers must have a driving licence, which is obtained by passing a standard driving test, and all drivers must be insured. There's a set of road traffic regulations governing speed limits, obeying signage, etc.)

In general terms, that's the licencing, supervision and regulation.

But that's it. The Govt are totally hands off after that. Nobody from the Govt helps me start the car in the morning. Nobody watches what route I take. I can please myself in all respects in usage of my car, once I comply with a broad framework of regulation.)


All you've shown is some broad safety-related regulatory framework in the early 1980s. Nothing to show any direct Govt involvement in Echostar in 2003. 

 
« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 12:47:10 PM by Tumeni »
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #78 on: March 30, 2022, 03:16:53 PM »
Echostar IX was under the purview of the International Telecommunications Satellite Corporation (ITSO):
ITSO is an intergovernmental organization with 149-member states, that incorporates the principle set forth in Resolution 1721 (XVI) of the General Assembly of the United Nations, which established that communication by means of satellite should be available to the nations of the world as soon as practicable on a global and non-discriminatory basis.

Looks like more of a UN connection, if anything, and not NASA.

Your argument appears to be here that the US Government is not involved because the US Government is involved.  ::)

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: ECHOSTAR (Private Satellite) Earth footage?
« Reply #79 on: March 30, 2022, 04:31:01 PM »
Your argument appears to be here that the US Government is not involved because the US Government is involved.  ::)

From the OP;

There’s no substantive argument against the timelapse that holds water.

Do you have any substantive argument that the US Govt played any direct role in this?
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?