The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: JHelzer on September 10, 2021, 02:38:00 PM

Title: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: JHelzer on September 10, 2021, 02:38:00 PM
On September 15th, the Inspiration4 space flight is scheduled to take 4 civilians to space on board a SpaceX Dragon capsule. These civilians will see Earth from space, take pictures and give first hand accounts of what they see. If they report that they see a globe, will you believe their simple, first hand, observations? Will you acknowledge this large science experiment as proof one way or the other?  One of the Flat Earth values is to just look and believe what your eyes are telling you; to believe the most obvious, simplest truth. Will that apply to the crew of Inspiration4? Will you believe their first hand report or dismiss it? 
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: AlephNull on September 10, 2021, 07:36:57 PM
Governments hire actors all the time - just look at 9/11 - total inside job by Bush Admin but they had us all thinking it was the Iraqis. If they can fake 9/11, they can fake a space launch.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: stack on September 10, 2021, 07:51:34 PM
Governments hire actors all the time - just look at 9/11 - total inside job by Bush Admin but they had us all thinking it was the Iraqis. If they can fake 9/11, they can fake a space launch.

How many actors did they hire? I think you mean Afghanistan, not Iraq. The former has been in the news a lot lately. Not sure how you missed that.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: JHelzer on September 10, 2021, 08:48:10 PM
The rocket going up will not be faked. People standing up and down the coast will see it go with their own eyes. The returns are also not faked, unauthorized boaters have watched the dragon capsules return and driven their boats right up to one of them. I suppose these 4 people participating in Inspiration4 could have been hired to act out the part of an amazing space mission.  Just calling people actors is fine I guess. I can also claim that the Flat Earth believers on this site are actors.

Still your answer is valid. Inspiration4 images and personal testimony will not change your perspective.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 11, 2021, 07:28:48 AM
Governments hire actors all the time - just look at 9/11 - total inside job by Bush Admin but they had us all thinking it was the Iraqis. If they can fake 9/11, they can fake a space launch.

How many actors did they hire? I think you mean Afghanistan, not Iraq. The former has been in the news a lot lately. Not sure how you missed that.
Wasn’t it the Saudis?
And obviously AlephNull has excellent and credible evidence for his claim. So what happened, they hired actors willing to fly suicide missions to simulate a terrorist attack? Honestly, what nonsense.
This is the trouble with some people. They demand evidence and observations but then dismiss them when they are presented.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: jack44556677 on September 11, 2021, 07:55:39 AM
If they report that they see a globe, will you believe their simple, first hand, observations?

It is not so much their observations that are disbelieved - it is their (heavily conditioned/biased) interpretation that is.

We already get plenty of people that say they can see the curvature of the earth (with the erroneous/illogical implicit bias that this proves the world a sphere). They are all deluded or are suffering from lens distortion.

I know that sounds crazy, but it is the reality that everyone observes and there isn't any serious contention on this point.

Let's go through a few examples


What you are missing is that the horizon never curves. And that this has nothing to do with whether it is flat or spherical.

The horizon is always a flat and horizontal line that surrounds you.  As you pull away, that circle expands to the limits of your vision.  If the earth were spherical, you would expect at some altitude (MUCH higher than the "commercial space flights" are going) that the "hump"/"shoulder" of the world ought to jut out, apparently from the horizon line.  The completely flat and horizontal horizon is always there, the curve of the earth appears to jut out of it (IF the world is spherical, that is)

Let me know if you have any questions.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on September 11, 2021, 08:39:14 AM
With you 100% on the aeroplanes, balloons and Branson, Jack, and I'd agree with you on the Inspiration4 if it were to (somehow) hover geo-stationary at a low Earth altitude.  But it doesn't; it moves. 

The thing about the horizon is that, like a rainbow, it is only relative to a single, fixed, point of perspective.  In an aircraft, balloon or near-vertical sub-orbital lob the observer's motion across the planet and change of horizon is imperceptible.  At LEO velocity, however, what was "horizon" 20 minutes ago is now beneath you.  Over a flat earth approaching features will simply come into greater clarity, over a round planet they will, literally, appear and disappear over the horizon. 
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: ichoosereality on September 11, 2021, 07:52:03 PM
On September 15th, the Inspiration4 space flight is scheduled to take 4 civilians to space on board a SpaceX Dragon capsule. These civilians will see Earth from space, take pictures and give first hand accounts of what they see. If they report that they see a globe, will you believe their simple, first hand, observations? Will you acknowledge this large science experiment as proof one way or the other?  One of the Flat Earth values is to just look and believe what your eyes are telling you; to believe the most obvious, simplest truth. Will that apply to the crew of Inspiration4? Will you believe their first hand report or dismiss it?
FEers did not come to their beliefs by a scientific review of the available data, so I think they are unlikely to abandon it based on a bit of additional data.
Even if the more extreme posts here are by trolls, actual believers reading them will have their beliefs reinforced.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: JHelzer on September 14, 2021, 02:52:26 PM
What you are missing is that the horizon never curves. And that this has nothing to do with whether it is flat or spherical.

The horizon is always a flat and horizontal line that surrounds you.  As you pull away, that circle expands to the limits of your vision.  If the earth were spherical, you would expect at some altitude (MUCH higher than the "commercial space flights" are going) that the "hump"/"shoulder" of the world ought to jut out, apparently from the horizon line.  The completely flat and horizontal horizon is always there, the curve of the earth appears to jut out of it (IF the world is spherical, that is)

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks Jack. Your point reminds me that there is a distinction between seeing the curvature of the Earth (away from us) and seeing the curvature of the horizon. While I agree with you that windows and lenses can disrupt the perception of horizon curvature from airplane altitudes (10km), I must disagree about the Branson/Bezos flights (100km) and also the Inspiration4 flight (500km).  Everything you say about raising in altitude is true when I climb a mountain or fly in a plane. I agree with you because I have seen this myself. However, from the video footage I've seen, when we pass 100km the curvature of the horizon becomes so pronounced that neither lens distortion nor placebo bias can account for it. There is a point where we have to say, Ok. That curvature is more than what lens distortion can cause.  I am proposing that at 500km, the 4 crew members will pass that point and see it for themselves.

Add to that, they will orbit the earth every 90 minutes and will witness not only the curvature of the horizon, but the curvature of the Earth away from them. This expectation of what they will see comes from my bias to believe what I have seen in previous rocket launches through cameras.  The difference here is that we will have 4 new witnesses who see it with their eyes. They will give their observations when they return, and I, for one, will take their witness as valid first person data.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on September 15, 2021, 10:49:10 PM
I've just been reading that the Crew Dragon's normal docking-apparatus in the nose has been replaced for this mission by a "single domed monolithic glass window".  (Second flight of this capsule by the way, following a previous mission to the fictional-ISS). 

I don't know the specific qualities of this window in particular, but the unique thing about a hemispherical window of course is that an eyeball at its geometric centre point experiences no optical distortion whatever due to refractive index, as all observed light is passing through the vacuum/glass and glass/air boundaries at 90 degrees. 
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: stankan333 on September 17, 2021, 01:59:07 PM
Governments hire actors all the time - just look at 9/11 - total inside job by Bush Admin but they had us all thinking it was the Iraqis. If they can fake 9/11, they can fake a space launch.

How many actors did they hire? I think you mean Afghanistan, not Iraq. The former has been in the news a lot lately. Not sure how you missed that.

Well, actually the Bush administration did conflate Iraq with 9/11.  They convinced a lot of people that the two were connected as a pretext for the invasion of Iraq.  Most of the terrorists from 9/11 actually came from Saudi Arabia, but Al quida was indeed based in Afghanistan.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: JHelzer on September 17, 2021, 04:31:51 PM
30 hours of silence from the Inspiration4 crew after the launch. Only a few pictures of the crew in the dragon capsule. No non-fisheye-lens images of earth. They aren't giving me what I'd hoped for to have a conversation in this forum on this topic. Still waiting...
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: stack on September 17, 2021, 08:23:24 PM
30 hours of silence from the Inspiration4 crew after the launch. Only a few pictures of the crew in the dragon capsule. No non-fisheye-lens images of earth. They aren't giving me what I'd hoped for to have a conversation in this forum on this topic. Still waiting...

SpaceX announced that the crew would give a live update from space at 5 p.m. Eastern time. That will be shown on YouTube:

Inspiration4 | In-Flight Update with the Crew

https://youtu.be/E71ffwc13y4

According to the NYT, they've been talking to ground control (obviously) and:

- The crew answered questions from cancer patients at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital in Memphis. St. Jude released recorded excerpts from the chat on Twitter.
- The crew members also had a call with the actor Tom Cruise.

Tom Cruise? I guess maybe because he is supposed to go up to the ISS to film some bits for MI 100, or whatever they're up to now. Why the otherwise radio silence? Anyone's guess. My guess is that Elon's sense of promotion is to not flood the airwaves with updates, but create big splashes with just a few so the world begs for more and stays intrigued.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: AlephNull on September 18, 2021, 07:03:49 AM
First of all Tom Cruise is part of the Satan worshipping Hollywood pedophile cult that has been exposed by President Trump. So nothing he says can be taken at face value. InspirationX is a hoax using brainwashed actors. The rocket you saw was an unmanned missile that blew up somewhere in upper atmosphere and the interior shots of spacecraft are filmed in a studio probably in Elon Musk basement. Space does not exist - you eventually hit a barrier (the firmament) beyond which you cannot pass - what is above that is only speculation, I think probably just water or ether or something. This is brainwashing for the masses with the goal of Elon Musk and his friends in the 1% getting more and more control of governments and finance - Elon Musk wants to rule the world, that is what this whole thing is about.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on September 18, 2021, 09:38:59 AM
"Satan worshipping paedophile cult exposed by President Trump"
 "Probably blew up in the upper atmosphere"
 "I think probably just water or ether or something".

Glad to see you're resisting the brainwashing. 
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 19, 2021, 06:28:24 AM
The rocket you saw was an unmanned missile that blew up somewhere in upper atmosphere and the interior shots of spacecraft are filmed in a studio probably in Elon Musk basement.
And your evidence for any of that is…?
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on September 19, 2021, 03:38:58 PM
The rocket you saw was an unmanned missile that blew up somewhere in upper atmosphere and the interior shots of spacecraft are filmed in a studio probably in Elon Musk basement.
And your evidence for any of that is…?
I
If I was a bilionaire, I would also have an anti-gravity basement. 

The real elephant-in-the-room question for Aleph; are the kids with cancer also actors?  Or maybe they simply don't have cancer at all.








Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: JHelzer on September 21, 2021, 03:29:35 PM
I take it all back. You can totally see the wires on this...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1440314847720132612
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: JHelzer on September 22, 2021, 05:57:19 AM
Ok. Here we go. Jared Issacman provided some real video taken with an iPhone in the cupola.  With the camera in the center of the cupola ring you can see the straight edges of the window frame (at the very end) and the round edges of the Earth. You can also see the Earth curving away around the edges of the globe.

There you have it my flat earth friends. Guy buys flight to space, guy looks out window, guy sees globe.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1440485977059827712
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: DuncanDoenitz on September 22, 2021, 08:03:05 AM
Incredible.  Billionaire Ubers a capsule, orbits the Earth and films the horizon in 'portrait'.  Notwithstanding the sheer awesomeness of this whole enterprise, the incompetence of his cinematography should be enough to convince anyone that neither NASA nor Kubrick's ghost was involved in this. 
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: MetaTron on September 22, 2021, 04:11:23 PM
I thought that was a pretty neat shot...  It doesn't say much to me about the overall shape of the earth..
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: JHelzer on September 22, 2021, 04:13:24 PM
... and films the horizon in 'portrait'.

hahaha. Portrait video is proof that this must be real. No studio would have allowed that. I love it.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: Tumeni on September 28, 2021, 11:00:58 PM
30 hours of silence from the Inspiration4 crew after the launch. Only a few pictures of the crew in the dragon capsule. No non-fisheye-lens images of earth. They aren't giving me what I'd hoped for to have a conversation in this forum on this topic. Still waiting...

Betcha they're saving the best for the in-flight episode of the Netflix documentary.

One of the astronauts posted a 360 pan around the view from the cupola. No fish-eye there. It's on twitter.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: JHelzer on October 01, 2021, 05:56:39 PM
Netflix 5th episode is out. Fantastic images of the crew and the earth. These are people who went to space and looked out the window with their own eyes.  These 4 people can tell you the shape of the earth. They circled the earth over 45 times and got a good view of it over a 3 day period. Space tourism is a real thing now. It has come down from hundreds of millions to millions in the past 15 years.  It will cost thousands instead of millions in a few more years.

I've heard of flat-earth efforts to raise funds to charter a ship to sail to the Antarctic ice wall, but this would be a far better journey. Send a couple of flat-earthers up on a SpaceX dragon with the expectation that they will debunk the fraud. Then see what they say after splashdown.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: SashOnTheWay on October 02, 2021, 01:03:13 AM
No, it wont. They'll just blast SpaceX and call them sheeples and shills.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: Tumeni on October 03, 2021, 02:42:56 PM
I thought that was a pretty neat shot...  It doesn't say much to me about the overall shape of the earth..

If there are sufficient landmarks or other geographical features, and a reasonably cloudless sky, then, as with the Red Bull Space Jump footage, it can be determined whether or not the landmarks are within the viewing scope of a spherical cap, based on the orbital height or altitude of the craft. 

What I've seen of the Inspiration footage thus far seems plagued by cloud, though...
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: stevecanuck on October 03, 2021, 03:49:41 PM
I thought that was a pretty neat shot...  It doesn't say much to me about the overall shape of the earth..

If there are sufficient landmarks or other geographical features, and a reasonably cloudless sky, then, as with the Red Bull Space Jump footage, it can be determined whether or not the landmarks are within the viewing scope of a spherical cap, based on the orbital height or altitude of the craft. 

What I've seen of the Inspiration footage thus far seems plagued by cloud, though...

Couldn't the same test be done from a Cessna 150 or the top of the Empire State building? The math would work just as well, and landmarks would be easier to see.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: SteelyBob on October 03, 2021, 06:16:48 PM
I thought that was a pretty neat shot...  It doesn't say much to me about the overall shape of the earth..

If there are sufficient landmarks or other geographical features, and a reasonably cloudless sky, then, as with the Red Bull Space Jump footage, it can be determined whether or not the landmarks are within the viewing scope of a spherical cap, based on the orbital height or altitude of the craft. 

What I've seen of the Inspiration footage thus far seems plagued by cloud, though...

Couldn't the same test be done from a Cessna 150 or the top of the Empire State building? The math would work just as well, and landmarks would be easier to see.

In theory, yes, but the visibility from aircraft tends to be limited by haze - usually particulate matter in the lower atmosphere - and not curvature. On a clear day, you might have, say, 20km visibility (met forecasts usually stop discriminating at 10km) at the kind of altitude you might reach in a light aircraft. But if you climb above the haze layer, or indeed the troposphere, such as in the red bull situation, or a rocket, you will be able to see a lot further, as the haze layer is less thick than, say 20km, meaning you can always see through it.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: scomato on October 04, 2021, 08:12:46 PM
If Flat Earthers don't even believe in the loooooong history of rocket launches to space, and think the whole thing is a hoax, then why would Inspiration4 mission change their mind? People could be living on Mars and there would still be Flat Earthers who claim Mars is not real and that space is fake.

(https://i.stack.imgur.com/alKhU.png)

Inspiration4 is just another blip on this graph that is denied wholesale by Flat Earthers.
Title: Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?
Post by: Kangaroony on November 28, 2021, 03:30:07 PM
Neither aircraft windows nor camera lenses "distort" the horizon line of the planet when
viewed from altitude. Even a wide angle lens will not cause distortion of a straight line if
the lens's longitudinal optical axis is centred exactly on that line or lines—either horizontal
or vertical.  Most of the people who talk about about purported lens distortion have little
concept of a lens optical properties.