[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Greeting! I have 3 images on my computer re: the Hebrew concept of the Earth. My ancestors believed the Earth to be flat, w/ mountains holding up the firmament of the sky. Above the sky were the waters above the firmament. Above that was the Throne of God. The Earth itself was held up by the columns. Sheol, the abode of the dead, was below the Earth. Around all this was the World Ocean. I'm on my phone, so I can't upload any images. But, you can Google them, I expect. For you FEer's, what do you think of the concept?

[Alchemist21]

Sorry since I'm not FE, but aside from mountains supporting the firmament this seems good for religious views.  You won't get much scientific support on this though since most here aren't of the Hebrew faith.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Alchemist, I expect you're right. I'm an REer myself, although for a short time I was prepared to give FET a chance. Well, their points are not provable, @ least to me. But, I still find the ancient Hebrew conception fascinating.

[spank86]

Alchemist, I expect you're right. I'm an REer myself, although for a short time I was prepared to give FET a chance. Well, their points are not provable, @ least to me. But, I still find the ancient Hebrew conception fascinating.

Indeed, you'd think god would have told them something a bit more accurate when he was doling out wisdom to be put in his holy books.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

*GRIN* No one ever said that God was a businessman dictating a letter. Well, Fundies do, but that's beside the point. He made use of poetry, literary convention, allegory, etc. I expect 'the four corners of the Earth' was metaphor. The fact that humans understood it literally (although we don't know that they all did) shows human nature @ its best & worst.

[spank86]

So god didn't know how his words would be interpreted?

He didn't know the best way to get his true meaning across?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I'm not sure the shape of the Earth was relevant to the points God was making. After all, you're talking about people that were not likely to travel 50 miles from home in a lifetime. Even traders weren't going to go out of the Levant much or @ all.

[spank86]

I'm not sure the shape of the Earth was relevant to the points God was making. After all, you're talking about people that were not likely to travel 50 miles from home in a lifetime. Even traders weren't going to go out of the Levant much or @ all.

Seems a little short sighted, wasn't he trying to make a book for all time?

Or should we chuck sections of it (like this one) away as outdated?

[Alchemist21]

I'm not sure the shape of the Earth was relevant to the points God was making. After all, you're talking about people that were not likely to travel 50 miles from home in a lifetime. Even traders weren't going to go out of the Levant much or @ all.

Seems a little short sighted, wasn't he trying to make a book for all time?

Or should we chuck sections of it (like this one) away as outdated?

Again, talking from an outside perspective here, but I see the Old Testament's laws as a means to promote longevity and reproduction among the Jewish people.  Basically, it's to up their odds of survival.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Well, I don:t think the book was intended to be a science book. The point wasn't to teach facts about the planet. If that were the case, he'd have taught us about jet engines & how to fly. The text would be literally millions of pgs long, w/ every single part of our lives mapped out. We'd be robots, w/o free will. No, God gave us only that knowledge we needed. The rest is for us to learn.

[spank86]

Well, I don:t think the book was intended to be a science book. The point wasn't to teach facts about the planet. If that were the case, he'd have taught us about jet engines & how to fly. The text would be literally millions of pgs long, w/ every single part of our lives mapped out. We'd be robots, w/o free will. No, God gave us only that knowledge we needed. The rest is for us to learn.

And if we learn that land is just land and that where we live is a lot less important than how we live?


well wouldn't that be a fine thing for some people and places.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Well, I'm inclined to believe what is clearly written in Torah, & whose land it is is pretty clearly spelled out.

[spank86]

Well, I'm inclined to believe what is clearly written in Torah, & whose land it is is pretty clearly spelled out.

as was the sky being held up by the mountains....

Make your mind up.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Actually, no, the Bible nowhere gives a clear explanation of a flat earth. It does talk about the 4 corners of the Earth, & does vaguely insinuate a flat earth, but the Hebrews shared their belief in the earth's flatness & the characteristics thereof w/ their pagan neighbours, & likely derived alot of the details that I described from them.

[Excelsior John]

Greeting! I have 3 images on my computer re: the Hebrew concept of the Earth. My ancestors believed the Earth to be flat, w/ mountains holding up the firmament of the sky. Above the sky were the waters above the firmament. Above that was the Throne of God. The Earth itself was held up by the columns. Sheol, the abode of the dead, was below the Earth. Around all this was the World Ocean. I'm on my phone, so I can't upload any images. But, you can Google them, I expect. For you FEer's, what do you think of the concept?

I hath seen these types of pictures before and tis indeed find them intresting! I do beleive there is some type of truth to them and I beleive you know my beleif in the four corners of the world and im begining to beleive in the infinite earth thoery but im still not totaley sure. For example I look at the waters in the firmanent to be the clouds and I also beleive Sheol to litraley be in the earths underground but it is phisicley imposible to get to pherhaps existing in a spirtuel dimension/plane. And if the infinite earth is real then the world ocean sureley surouds it. Anyway im glad that you have decided to share this with people umfamilar with Jewish flat earthism

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I should point out that modern Jews don't believe in FET, @ least I never met one that did. The ancient concept was one that was shared throughout the Levant & the Fertile Crescent, by people as diverse as the Hebrews & the Babylonians.

[Excelsior John]

I should point out that modern Jews don't believe in FET, @ least I never met one that did. The ancient concept was one that was shared throughout the Levant & the Fertile Crescent, by people as diverse as the Hebrews & the Babylonians.

I am well aware of that RET has taken over even the most traditionel folk but it is rooted in Hebrew cosmologey

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I find it curious that most of the FEers on these fora are atheist/agnostic. Given that the history of the FES is intimately intertwined w/ Scriptural (both Jewish & Christian) justification for such a belief, it makes me wonder what happened.

[markjo]

Modern secular life happened.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Markjo, in the USA, 86% of people identify as Christian. 46% attend a house of worship @ least once a month. I know Western Europe is much more secular, but still, outright atheism is rare there too. Most people in Western Europe prefer a vague Deism. So why is the FES, whose strength has always been the UK & the US, different?