they get to talk to a Flat Earther
We hire out indian contractorsI think we can pop that idea in the bin, straight away. If we aren't honest about our methods, why would anyone think we are honest in our answers?
they get to talk to a Flat EartherWe hire out indian contractorsI think we can pop that idea in the bin, straight away. If we aren't honest about our methods, why would anyone think we are honest in our answers?
Honestly, I'm not really feeling this idea. What are we trying to achieve? Are YOU going to go to Antarctica? Personally its a bit cold and I'd struggle to get the time off work. Ignore the method of transaction, I don't know why you'd collect money for a grand experiment? What would it prove? That the earth is flat? What experiment would achieve that?
If we were going down the route of selling people's zip codes or e-mail addresses (trading personal information for monetary gain) and harassing people to interact or divulge interests and data, why wouldn't we just put ads on the site? Get click money? Or up the price of our T-shirts 50 cents? Or ask for $50 donations when we get requests for interviews?
In summary I think there are smarter and less intrusive ways to monetise, but I'd only be interested if TFES became an official charity and used its name and power to raise money for something I'd deem worthwhile. Sending you and Pongo to Antartica may be amusing, but its not a good use of funds. Sorry Tom.
I don't care about Antarctica.
As I said, this would just be a general fund-raising tactic. I don't care about Antarctica. But I am interested in funding large projects for the community to work on. The community would decide which direction we go by democratic vote.Tom, why fund large projects when there are so many small experiments that can be done for free? For example, there have been several attempts go get the community to record the time and position of sunrise and sunset on the days of the equinox that have died due to lack of interest on the part of FE'ers. Why try to fund a large research project when such a trivial one can't be organized for free? I contend that apathy is a greater hurdle to FET research than lack of funding.
I am absolutely opposed to task based financing. I don't want this society to be a spam-producing, sketchy clickbait site. Regardless of whether or not that's how you see it, Tom, that's how visitors would see it if we had an offer wall on the site.
sick to my stomach.
spam-producing, sketchy clickbait
This kind of crap
I operate a small marketing company. We specialize in providing innovative ways for websites to collect micropayments for their content.
The main problem I have with this idea, Tom ... is why are we fundraising?
I don't care about Antarctica.
What do you care about? Raising money for the sake of it seems a little odd.
What do you hope to gain? I can only assume you hope to get media coverage with a similar story to "hollow earth seeks to find entrance". If its purely raising our profile, I'm sure we can do that another way for similar effect without shaking down all our visitors for loose change.
If you'd said "We must redo the Bedford level experiment properly" I could at least understand that you had a specific purpose and motive. To fix a specific problem. But "I want to raise funds for something" suggests you are looking to add a process without an end goal.
As I've said before, if TFES became a registered charity and revenue went to a good cause - say a children's hospital or education materials for disadvantaged or disabled kids, I'd give you all the help my time allowed. But I can't get excited about a never ending fund to send a balloon into the stratosphere or buy a virgin galactic ticket.
I would have to say that I would have to bow out of the society as a whole were this to happen. I'm not at all comfortable supporting a group that resorts to the lowest common denominator methods of internet marketing. The whole idea makes me sick to my stomach.
Download Earth Not a Globe 2015 Expanded Edition and
Get 2 Free Issues of Smithsonian Magazine
(http://demandware.edgesuite.net/sits_pod18/dw/image/v2/AAIF_PRD/on/demandware.static/Sites-mags-us-Site/Sites-masterMagazines/default/v1421308890507/images/8928-MA/8928-MA-4-hires.jpg?sw=400&sh=537&sm=fit) (http://www.magmall.com/picts/smithsonianmagazine.jpg)
Do you think that real scientific organizations all operate on zero budgets and their scientists all work for free?Tom, how many times have you dismissed "real scientific organizations" because the "real scientists" were paid to produce the results that their employers wanted. Is this what you really want for TFES?
I would have to say that I would have to bow out of the society as a whole were this to happen. I'm not at all comfortable supporting a group that resorts to the lowest common denominator methods of internet marketing. The whole idea makes me sick to my stomach.
Here is another idea:
Instead of using low tier offers which are geared towards a general audience (ie, enter your zip code for a free box of Cheerios) we can take the time to pick out offers relevant to science and technology. It will be more time consuming to find these offers, and they sometimes need approval before running, but they exist. Right now Smithsonian Magazine is offering to pay $9 for signups for their 2 issue free trial. Users will receive 2 issues of their magazine and then have the option of signing up with Smithsonian for more.
We would get users to sign up with something like this:
Do you think that real scientific organizations all operate on zero budgets and their scientists all work for free?Tom, how many times have you dismissed "real scientific organizations" because the "real scientists" were paid to produce the results that their employers wanted. Is this what you really want for TFES?
Still a no, in my case. It's backhanded and sleazy, the sort of thing I'd expect to find on a less-than-reputable website, and this kind of campaign really doesn't sit well with me. I know it's your company and all, and I mean no offense, that's just the way I feel about it. I'm not interested in being associated with a website with these practices at all.
I think the T-Shirts and the book(s) are much more in the direction we need to look for fundraising efforts, and I concur that registering as a nonprofit and supporting charitable organizations would be good for us. I don't oppose ideas for fundraising in general, but this one, scientific focus or no, is just not something I'd recommend for any website who doesn't want to appear shady, and it's not something I can participate in at all. I do this crap at work because I have to, and my employer graciously works around my school schedule. Outside of that context, I want nothing to do with it.
As the person who runs this forum, let me state for the record that there will never be any revenue raised from it in any form. This forum is and always will remain free of charge, free of advertising and free of any solicitation of financial contribution (direct or indirect) for anyone to use, provided that they post within the rules.
Naturally, Daniel's website (which will remain the host of the Society homepage post-reunification) is under his remit, but I would be very surprised if he is any more amiable to this idea than I am.
I guess that's makes the idea of raising funds for education materials for those poor school children impossible then.
I would also suggest removing the thread on this forum soliciting me for t-shirts. It is against these rules.
KudosI guess that's makes the idea of raising funds for education materials for those poor school children impossible then.
It's quite possible; I simply won't allow it to come at the expense of the public's access to discuss those same educational materials in a free and open forum.I would also suggest removing the thread on this forum soliciting me for t-shirts. It is against these rules.
I'm quite happy for people to promote Flat Earth-related products (commercial or otherwise) on this forum. It's only soliciting contributions to the running of the forum, or placing conditions and/or barriers on the use of the forum that I'm opposing.
To illustrate with an example, creating a thread to say "I'm selling Flat Earth T-shirts" is okay. Having a popup that says "please buy a Flat Earth T-shirt" when somebody tries to register or post isn't.
Why would we raise funds and give it to children for education materials? We already pay our taxes to people to do that. This is the Flat Earth Society. We should be raising funds to further Flat Earth research.Because it is a decent thing to do? The world isn't perfect and not all good causes receive the money they need and deserve. Especially as we are now wrapped in austerity across the Western world.
As the person who runs this forum, let me state for the record that there will never be any revenue raised from it in any form. This forum is and always will remain free of charge, free of advertising and free of any solicitation of financial contribution (direct or indirect) for anyone to use, provided that they post within the rules.Well this is fairly insidious. You are saying "I rule the forum, Daniel rules the website, and you will all adhere to our ideals." This is against everything we stand for on this half of the society. The society is supposed to be run by the community for the community. If we all want banner ads (and we don't), but if we all do and you don't then that is the will of the community.
Naturally, Daniel's website (which will remain the host of the Society homepage post-reunification) is under his remit, but I would be very surprised if he is any more amiable to this idea than I am.
We are already accused of faking research. If we had an actual budget we would get more and better quality research. Isn't that what you have been asking for since you got here?Tom, do you have so little imagination that you can't think of any free experiments that will help prove the shape of the earth (other than looking out a window)?
How is offering two issues of Smithsonian Magazine with the copy of the new Earth Not a Globe book sleazy or backhanded? That's the least offensive form of advertising I can imagine. We would certainly get more interest than if we were to sell the book outright. We would be basically giving the book away for free, as well as a popular science magazine.
I would be more offended if I went to a Hollow Earth site and they were trying to push their books on me for profit, withholding research about a Hollow Earth unless I pay them money. My idea is a less sleazy way to fund-raise. The research is being given out for free. You want us to withhold research from the public unless we get paid in cash. That's terrible.
A disclaimer can be made that the "Smithsonian Magazine is partnered with the Flat Earth Society to bring you this offer." Anyone with an IQ above room temperature could figure out that money is somehow exchanging hands. It's not really that backhanded.
Well this is fairly insidious. You are saying "I rule the forum, Daniel rules the website, and you will all adhere to our ideals." This is against everything we stand for on this half of the society. The society is supposed to be run by the community for the community. If we all want banner ads (and we don't), but if we all do and you don't then that is the will of the community.
I understand that we have a mantra of free and open access, but we also are a community and the reason this half of the society was created was because we were sick of tyrants. I'm not disagreeing with you on your principle, but you should not be issuing edicts.
I imagine that vendors have a hard time selling beer legally over the internet where IDs cannot be checked.I'm not sure about draconian US regulation, but in Europe you can just buy beer online if you want.
I don't think the beer is out of place in such an inventory, but I imagine that vendors have a hard time selling beer legally over the internet where IDs cannot be checked.At the very least, I would imagine that you would need a liquor license to sell beer over the internet.
How you do that in the US when you are old enough at 18 to marry, have children, get a mortgage, financially ruin yourself but yet not enjoy a delicious beer on a warm summer's evening until you are 21, I'm not sure.Because too many 18-20 year old idiots were were killing people in drunk driving accidents.