Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #480 on: August 01, 2021, 03:54:02 PM »
About time something was done about these damaging lies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-58045787
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #481 on: August 01, 2021, 06:33:29 PM »
About time something was done about these damaging lies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-58045787

"YouTube did not point to specific items but said it opposed material that "could cause real-world harm"."

Do you think it would be right if I ban you for a week then refuse to tell you why aside from saying I oppose material that "could cause real-world harm"? It should be concerning that YouTube:

1. Has enough power and control that banning a channel makes a large impact on the availability of information.
2. Exercises this control at their own discretion and does not specify what caused the removal aside from a vague platitude.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #482 on: August 01, 2021, 06:52:59 PM »
YouTube can and does provide information about bans to channels behind the scenes. Just because they don’t announce to the public the specific details of what warranted a ban, does not mean they routinely proceed in an obfuscating mannner.

I also wonder why anyone thinks YouTube shouldn’t be able to ban people from using their platform. They are a private business, after all. Surely they shouldn’t be forced to carry content of any sort without discretion? Seems pretty authoritarian.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #483 on: August 01, 2021, 07:00:16 PM »
I also wonder why anyone thinks YouTube shouldn’t be able to ban people from using their platform. They are a private business, after all. Surely they shouldn’t be forced to carry content of any sort without discretion? Seems pretty authoritarian.

You have it backwards. Single entities under no oversight having the authority to control huge amounts of information that is distributed to billions of people is authoritarian. Just because they are technically a private business that can ban who it wants does not mean it should be that way. Unless you are an amoeba who thinks laws should remain static for all time.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #484 on: August 01, 2021, 07:07:07 PM »
YouTube can and does provide information about bans to channels behind the scenes. Just because they don’t announce to the public the specific details of what warranted a ban, does not mean they routinely proceed in an obfuscating mannner.

Do you have evidence of that?

I also wonder why anyone thinks YouTube shouldn’t be able to ban people from using their platform. They are a private business, after all. Surely they shouldn’t be forced to carry content of any sort without discretion? Seems pretty authoritarian.

That's a surprisingly libertarian viewpoint from you. If one large conglomerate controls the majority of online information, do you think it's okay for the owner to suppress any information they don't like? For example, say Google's board decides it really doesn't like a particular political candidate. You are no longer allowed to search for their name on Google, you are not allowed to make posts using that name on Google's servers or allowed to post videos about that candidate. Is that perfectly okay because they are a private business? How much power in the hand of private business is too much? Google is also an Internet Service Provider (ISP). Should an ISP be able to block political traffic they disagree with?

https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/online-video--12/youtube-market-share

Youtube has competitors, but controls 74% of the user-based video streaming market. That's a pretty powerful hand on the valve of information. Imagine all of the things that Google hides from you on a daily basis that you never hear about because Google hid them from you in the first place.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 07:09:30 PM by Rushy »

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Online xasop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #485 on: August 01, 2021, 07:10:21 PM »
You have it backwards. Single entities under no oversight having the authority to control huge amounts of information that is distributed to billions of people is authoritarian. Just because they are technically a private business that can ban who it wants does not mean it should be that way. Unless you are an amoeba who thinks laws should remain static for all time.
They don't control the information. Anyone can publish any legal material they like on the web without having to go through any one specific content provider. Being unable to post it on YouTube means almost nothing — the only disadvantage is that you no longer appear in YouTube search results or recommendations, which are used by many people, and that may be considered a form of monopoly.

If there is a role for legislation to play here, it is in reducing YouTube's de facto monopoly on video hosting, not regulating what content they are allowed to ban.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #486 on: August 01, 2021, 07:41:56 PM »
Being unable to post it on YouTube means almost nothing — the only disadvantage is that you no longer appear in YouTube search results or recommendations, which are used by many people, and that may be considered a form of monopoly.

If there is a role for legislation to play here, it is in reducing YouTube's de facto monopoly on video hosting, not regulating what content they are allowed to ban.

It would be a lot easier to reclassify massive media entities like Facebook and YouTube as public utilities and apply government oversight than it would be to play whack-a-mole for every new media monopoly that springs up. You can't easily legislate where people choose to spend time on the internet.

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Online xasop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #487 on: August 01, 2021, 07:50:07 PM »
It would be a lot easier to reclassify massive media entities like Facebook and YouTube as public utilities and apply government oversight than it would be to play whack-a-mole for every new media monopoly that springs up. You can't easily legislate where people choose to spend time on the internet.
Not directly, no, but most regulations don't apply directly to the thing they're trying to regulate. You don't prevent car accidents by having police be everywhere enforcing the road rules, you reduce the risk by requiring people to take a test to be allowed to drive.

Similarly, there are various indirect methods that could be applied here. A good start would be improved education in technical literacy, so that people understand the difference between the free, decentralised web and an individual private content provider with its own rules. Also, a government-run (or -regulated) search engine that indexes content on private media websites could go a long way to separating content hosting (which there is no need to regulate, beyond banning obviously illegal material) from content discovery (which is currently controlled by the content hosting providers, and that is the problem).

It's a bit defeatist to say "it can't be done" without even trying to solve the problem.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #488 on: August 01, 2021, 07:50:39 PM »
If one large conglomerate controls the majority of online information, do you think it's okay for the owner to suppress any information they don't like? For example, say Google's board decides it really doesn't like a particular political candidate. You are no longer allowed to search for their name on Google, you are not allowed to make posts using that name on Google's servers or allowed to post videos about that candidate. Is that perfectly okay because they are a private business?
That is absolutely not what has happened here and you know it.
Given how powerful YouTube is, don't you think they have some responsibility to police what is posted if the content is untrue and harmful to public health? There should be some limits on what can be posted.
There is a potential issue here of course, who is the arbiter of truth? I guess in this example, they are. But the internet being a free for all where anyone can post anything without scrutiny isn't working out too well, I'd suggest it's a big part of the "post truth" world we now live in.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #489 on: August 01, 2021, 07:56:31 PM »
I'm with Rama.

Youtube is a website that has videos.  They do not promote themselves as a news source.  We should not have the government try to legitimize youtube as a valid information source.

Also of note: News channels can and do filter information they don't like.  And they ARE a legitimate source of information, yet we do nothing. And while youtube does control alot of attention, as does Twitter, Twitch, Tumblr, facebook, and whatever else is used, just remember:  ICANN controls their asses.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #490 on: August 01, 2021, 09:36:18 PM »
 :-*
YouTube can and does provide information about bans to channels behind the scenes. Just because they don’t announce to the public the specific details of what warranted a ban, does not mean they routinely proceed in an obfuscating mannner.

Do you have evidence of that?

I’ve heard Philip DeFranco discuss conversations he’s had with YouTube reps over his issues surrounding censorship on the platform.

Quote
That's a surprisingly libertarian viewpoint from you.

Not really.

Quote
If one large conglomerate controls the majority of online information, do you think it's okay for the owner to suppress any information they don't like? For example, say Google's board decides it really doesn't like a particular political candidate. You are no longer allowed to search for their name on Google, you are not allowed to make posts using that name on Google's servers or allowed to post videos about that candidate. Is that perfectly okay because they are a private business? How much power in the hand of private business is too much? Google is also an Internet Service Provider (ISP). Should an ISP be able to block political traffic they disagree with?

https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/online-video--12/youtube-market-share

Youtube has competitors, but controls 74% of the user-based video streaming market. That's a pretty powerful hand on the valve of information. Imagine all of the things that Google hides from you on a daily basis that you never hear about because Google hid them from you in the first place.

Ethically, I would prefer YouTube not to ban this content, but instead put barriers to entry in place, similar with what Twitter did with Trump’s shitposting but I also think a private enterprise shouldn’t be forced to do business with someone they don’t wish to, especially when it’s not a protected class.

I am concerned about Google’s search algorithm, but it’s incumbent on me to use alternative search engines, which is a trivial solution. If we want to have this sort of regulation of tech companies they need to made in to utilities. We have all but formally admitted that video streaming is an essential tool of today’s communication.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #491 on: August 01, 2021, 10:49:51 PM »
I’ve heard Philip DeFranco discuss conversations he’s had with YouTube reps over his issues surrounding censorship on the platform.

That's not evidence...

Ethically, I would prefer YouTube not to ban this content, but instead put barriers to entry in place, similar with what Twitter did with Trump’s shitposting but I also think a private enterprise shouldn’t be forced to do business with someone they don’t wish to, especially when it’s not a protected class.

I am concerned about Google’s search algorithm, but it’s incumbent on me to use alternative search engines, which is a trivial solution. If we want to have this sort of regulation of tech companies they need to made in to utilities. We have all but formally admitted that video streaming is an essential tool of today’s communication.

It seems that you're fine with private businesses censoring people as long as competition exists, but history shows that businesses easily collaborate when their interests align. This means in the internet sphere where only two or three businesses are competing in a certain realm, it becomes pretty easy to effectively control what information the vast majority of people see.

In the case that they don't collaborate, removing a video from Youtube probably prevents thousands or even hundreds of thousands of people from seeing it, for better or worse. Most people don't go through a great deal of effort to hunt things down (most people can't be pained to look up basic information about their local reps, even). Information control doesn't need to be absolute to do serious damage.

I would agree to give more rights to 'private business' in this regard if their market share was limited, but right now most of the information on the internet is controlled by only a handful of tech companies. Google's search engine market share is 92%. Imagine how much of a difference their proprietary algorithm makes on the information that billions of people view every day. 


That is absolutely not what has happened here and you know it.
Given how powerful YouTube is, don't you think they have some responsibility to police what is posted if the content is untrue and harmful to public health? There should be some limits on what can be posted.
There is a potential issue here of course, who is the arbiter of truth? I guess in this example, they are. But the internet being a free for all where anyone can post anything without scrutiny isn't working out too well, I'd suggest it's a big part of the "post truth" world we now live in.

Not only are they the arbiter of truth, they don't have to tell you exactly what they un-truthed. They tell the public "no, you're not allowed to hear that" and that's that. My stance would be closer to that of Rama's if Google's market share in video hosting were closer to 20% of the market instead of 70%.

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #492 on: August 01, 2021, 11:42:23 PM »
Not only are they the arbiter of truth, they don't have to tell you exactly what they un-truthed. They tell the public "no, you're not allowed to hear that" and that's that. My stance would be closer to that of Rama's if Google's market share in video hosting were closer to 20% of the market instead of 70%.

Are you suggesting that at certain market share level Google YT shouldn't be allowed to remove/ban content and/or creators of said content? If so, what percent would be the tipping point? Something north of 20%? Kind of a 'too big to censor' rule?

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #493 on: August 02, 2021, 10:31:46 AM »
Illness, disease, suffering, and death are all part of a normal life.

Diphtheria is no longer a part of normal life.
Polio is no longer a part of normal life.
Tetanus is no longer a part of normal life.
Measles are no longer a part of normal life.
Mumps are no longer a part of normal life.
Rubella is no longer a part of normal life.
Whooping cough is no longer a part of normal life.

Are we seeing a pattern yet?
Yes, we are seeing a pattern.

Your continued denial that death is a normal part of life.

Those things still exist and still take lives.

And they were controlled with far less draconian measures than you henny pennies think are necessary.

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #494 on: August 02, 2021, 10:39:10 AM »
The White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator during the start of the Coronavirus pandemic said it herself that they were doing things differently.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/08/dr_birx_unlike_some_countries_if_someone_dies_with_covid-19_we_are_counting_that_as_a_covid-19_death.html

Quote
Dr. Birx: Unlike Some Countries, "If Someone Dies With COVID-19 We Are Counting That As A COVID-19 Death"

Here's the official CDC guidance on how to report Covid deaths:

Reporting and Coding Deaths Due to COVID-19
This page provides guidance and resources for reporting deaths due to COVID-19 on death certificates. When COVID-19 is determined to be a cause of death, it is important that it be reported on the death certificate to accurately assess the effects of this pandemic and appropriately direct public health response.

Everything you want to know about how Covid deaths should be reported on death certificates. Seems quite standard. Here's the longer PDF with the details from the link above:

Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID–19)

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

I suggest you familiarize yourself with this information.

Quote from: stack
Around the entire planet? For what purpose? As in what motive, gain, and for whom?

The government has drummed up fear in the past to enact its policies, consolidate power, and get funding for things like war.

Governments enacting fear and tyranny to enact policies and consolidate power. Like that has never happened before.  ::)

So pretty much every government on the planet is engaged in "enacting fear and tyranny to enact policies and consolidate power"?  ::)

Edit: Lastly, regarding that 20,000+ NYC excess deaths figure, 16k attributed to Covid, 4k not, according to your assessment, how much of that 16k is false Covid reporting?
I suggest you learn the definition of the word, "guidance," before you post again.

The government pays the hospital if Covid is the cause of death.

Administrators want the money.

And will not follow "guidance."

Just like you wouldn't follow "guidance," if I dropped my wallet on the ground and you found it.

Demonstrable lack of conscience found in your post history.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 12:34:51 PM by Action80 »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #495 on: August 02, 2021, 12:40:57 PM »
The White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator during the start of the Coronavirus pandemic said it herself that they were doing things differently.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/08/dr_birx_unlike_some_countries_if_someone_dies_with_covid-19_we_are_counting_that_as_a_covid-19_death.html

Quote
Dr. Birx: Unlike Some Countries, "If Someone Dies With COVID-19 We Are Counting That As A COVID-19 Death"

Here's the official CDC guidance on how to report Covid deaths:

Reporting and Coding Deaths Due to COVID-19
This page provides guidance and resources for reporting deaths due to COVID-19 on death certificates. When COVID-19 is determined to be a cause of death, it is important that it be reported on the death certificate to accurately assess the effects of this pandemic and appropriately direct public health response.

Everything you want to know about how Covid deaths should be reported on death certificates. Seems quite standard. Here's the longer PDF with the details from the link above:

Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID–19)

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

I suggest you familiarize yourself with this information.

Quote from: stack
Around the entire planet? For what purpose? As in what motive, gain, and for whom?

The government has drummed up fear in the past to enact its policies, consolidate power, and get funding for things like war.

Governments enacting fear and tyranny to enact policies and consolidate power. Like that has never happened before.  ::)

So pretty much every government on the planet is engaged in "enacting fear and tyranny to enact policies and consolidate power"?  ::)

Edit: Lastly, regarding that 20,000+ NYC excess deaths figure, 16k attributed to Covid, 4k not, according to your assessment, how much of that 16k is false Covid reporting?
I suggest you learn the definition of the word, "guidance," before you post again.

The government pays the hospital if Covid is the cause of death.

Administrators want the money.

And will not follow "guidance."

Just like you wouldn't follow "guidance," if I dropped my wallet on the ground and you found it.

Demonstrable lack of conscience found in your post history.

What about at hospitals that don't get extra money per covid person?  Like most of the world?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #496 on: August 02, 2021, 12:56:33 PM »
The White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator during the start of the Coronavirus pandemic said it herself that they were doing things differently.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/08/dr_birx_unlike_some_countries_if_someone_dies_with_covid-19_we_are_counting_that_as_a_covid-19_death.html

Quote
Dr. Birx: Unlike Some Countries, "If Someone Dies With COVID-19 We Are Counting That As A COVID-19 Death"

Here's the official CDC guidance on how to report Covid deaths:

Reporting and Coding Deaths Due to COVID-19
This page provides guidance and resources for reporting deaths due to COVID-19 on death certificates. When COVID-19 is determined to be a cause of death, it is important that it be reported on the death certificate to accurately assess the effects of this pandemic and appropriately direct public health response.

Everything you want to know about how Covid deaths should be reported on death certificates. Seems quite standard. Here's the longer PDF with the details from the link above:

Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID–19)

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

I suggest you familiarize yourself with this information.

Quote from: stack
Around the entire planet? For what purpose? As in what motive, gain, and for whom?

The government has drummed up fear in the past to enact its policies, consolidate power, and get funding for things like war.

Governments enacting fear and tyranny to enact policies and consolidate power. Like that has never happened before.  ::)

So pretty much every government on the planet is engaged in "enacting fear and tyranny to enact policies and consolidate power"?  ::)

Edit: Lastly, regarding that 20,000+ NYC excess deaths figure, 16k attributed to Covid, 4k not, according to your assessment, how much of that 16k is false Covid reporting?
I suggest you learn the definition of the word, "guidance," before you post again.

The government pays the hospital if Covid is the cause of death.

Administrators want the money.

And will not follow "guidance."

Just like you wouldn't follow "guidance," if I dropped my wallet on the ground and you found it.

Demonstrable lack of conscience found in your post history.

What about at hospitals that don't get extra money per covid person?  Like most of the world?
All worldwide economic activity, including hospitals, were receiving government subsidized payments based on Covid.

The IMF https://www.imf.org/en/Topics/imf-and-covid19/COVID-Lending-Tracker is making a killing off of this.

The governments do not care for their people, they only care about their skim off the trillions being lent out by the IMF.

USE THE WORD COVID, GET PAID BIG BUCKS!!!
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 01:00:08 PM by Action80 »

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Online xasop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #497 on: August 02, 2021, 02:30:13 PM »
I just had my second jab. Posting this telepathically over 5G. It was totally worth it.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #498 on: August 02, 2021, 04:44:09 PM »
The White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator during the start of the Coronavirus pandemic said it herself that they were doing things differently.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/08/dr_birx_unlike_some_countries_if_someone_dies_with_covid-19_we_are_counting_that_as_a_covid-19_death.html

Quote
Dr. Birx: Unlike Some Countries, "If Someone Dies With COVID-19 We Are Counting That As A COVID-19 Death"

Here's the official CDC guidance on how to report Covid deaths:

Reporting and Coding Deaths Due to COVID-19
This page provides guidance and resources for reporting deaths due to COVID-19 on death certificates. When COVID-19 is determined to be a cause of death, it is important that it be reported on the death certificate to accurately assess the effects of this pandemic and appropriately direct public health response.

Everything you want to know about how Covid deaths should be reported on death certificates. Seems quite standard. Here's the longer PDF with the details from the link above:

Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID–19)

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

I suggest you familiarize yourself with this information.

Quote from: stack
Around the entire planet? For what purpose? As in what motive, gain, and for whom?

The government has drummed up fear in the past to enact its policies, consolidate power, and get funding for things like war.

Governments enacting fear and tyranny to enact policies and consolidate power. Like that has never happened before.  ::)

So pretty much every government on the planet is engaged in "enacting fear and tyranny to enact policies and consolidate power"?  ::)

Edit: Lastly, regarding that 20,000+ NYC excess deaths figure, 16k attributed to Covid, 4k not, according to your assessment, how much of that 16k is false Covid reporting?
I suggest you learn the definition of the word, "guidance," before you post again.

The government pays the hospital if Covid is the cause of death.

Administrators want the money.

And will not follow "guidance."

Just like you wouldn't follow "guidance," if I dropped my wallet on the ground and you found it.

Demonstrable lack of conscience found in your post history.

What about at hospitals that don't get extra money per covid person?  Like most of the world?
All worldwide economic activity, including hospitals, were receiving government subsidized payments based on Covid.

The IMF https://www.imf.org/en/Topics/imf-and-covid19/COVID-Lending-Tracker is making a killing off of this.

The governments do not care for their people, they only care about their skim off the trillions being lent out by the IMF.

USE THE WORD COVID, GET PAID BIG BUCKS!!!

According to the tracker, most nations aren't getting anything.  Only those who are poor.
Soooo....not sure what the problem is.  If a country is poor, they need help to combat covid and get a loan.

What... Do you think like... The US gets a few million from the loan repayment from dirty poor nations?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #499 on: August 02, 2021, 04:53:54 PM »

I suggest you learn the definition of the word, "guidance," before you post again.

The government pays the hospital if Covid is the cause of death.

Administrators want the money.

And will not follow "guidance."

In the US, yes, for Medicare patients, the government pays the hospital for Covid services rendered. I'm not finding where the Gov't is paying something or anything extra for non-Medicare Covid patients.  Please cite a source.

Just like you wouldn't follow "guidance," if I dropped my wallet on the ground and you found it.

Demonstrable lack of conscience found in your post history.

Wow, this says more about your conscience than mine - I once found a wallet on the sidewalk. It had some cash, like $60+, a University ID and some credit/debitcards. I scoured the web for the individual based on the ID. Found her father's info, called him up, he said it was her daughter's. She was visiting here from school, he lived locally. He came by and picked up the wallet, cash included.

Sounds like your your sense of guidance is severely warped & selfish - Makes sense given your stance on this topic.