Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #240 on: July 07, 2021, 06:03:28 AM »
I guess this means people should maybe reconsider going with the Pfizer vaccine and go with J&J, Moderna, or AstraZeneca instead.
Maybe, although all these vaccines have to go through independent trials before they’re approved. We don’t just have to take their word for it. And it’s now been rolled out to I guess hundreds of millions of people. In a population that size you are going to get some people who have reactions. People with a certain agenda will then cherry pick those cases to try and make a case which doesn’t stand up statistically
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #241 on: July 07, 2021, 06:58:42 AM »
I guess this means people should maybe reconsider going with the Pfizer vaccine and go with J&J, Moderna, or AstraZeneca instead.
Maybe, although all these vaccines have to go through independent trials before they’re approved. We don’t just have to take their word for it. And it’s now been rolled out to I guess hundreds of millions of people. In a population that size you are going to get some people who have reactions. People with a certain agenda will then cherry pick those cases to try and make a case which doesn’t stand up statistically

Agreed. I guess I'm not really sure what Tom's point is. I took it as "vax bad" as I am not in the "vax bad" camp. I was pointing out (not so well) that if one has a problem with Pfizer's history, it doesn't wipe out all of the other vax's.

Not to mention the case he brought up, though terrible, requires some nuance to understand as opposed to just a lively twitter quote. They got busted for continually providing incentives to Dr's to prescribe their meds, golf trips, vaca's of other sorts, etc. Incentives, a no no. And they had a history of doing that. For two, they were promoting some of their drugs for uses that were not FDA approved. They are allowed to "suggest" alternative uses for their drugs, but not "promote" them. So yeah, terrible big-pharma behaviour. So the devil is in the details not in a cherry-picked twitter burst.

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Online xasop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #242 on: July 13, 2021, 04:43:00 PM »
Starting tomorrow, Malta will be the first country in the EU to close its borders to anyone not fully vaccinated (source in Dutch). I wonder how many more will follow.
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Offline Iceman

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #243 on: July 13, 2021, 04:50:26 PM »
Though not an EU nation, Iceland has already done the same, right? I think it makes a lot of sense for island nations, where they can maintain a strong control over access points.

I see that being a huge challenge for many of the EU states with multiple border crossings. Definitely an interesting development though.

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #244 on: July 13, 2021, 05:04:08 PM »
Though not an EU nation, Iceland has already done the same, right? I think it makes a lot of sense for island nations, where they can maintain a strong control over access points.
I was unfamiliar with the case of Iceland, but it seems that there are some exemptions for citizens of certain countries with negative test results. Malta is going a step further and requiring vaccinations for everyone.

I see that being a huge challenge for many of the EU states with multiple border crossings. Definitely an interesting development though.
The EU Digital COVID Certificate may make this easier to check, but we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Personally, I'm all in favour of this now that the vaccine is broadly available to everyone. For the vast majority of people, there will be no excuse not to be fully vaccinated in another couple of months.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 05:23:25 PM by xasop »
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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #245 on: July 13, 2021, 05:20:22 PM »
I'm a bit uneasy about this. I do think people should get vaccinated but there are some people who can't be and making it so that people can't travel or get certain jobs without being vaccinated...
It's a dangerous precedent
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #246 on: July 13, 2021, 05:23:11 PM »
I'm a bit uneasy about this. I do think people should get vaccinated but there are some people who can't be and making it so that people can't travel or get certain jobs without being vaccinated...
It's a dangerous precedent
People who can't be vaccinated are exactly the people rules like this are protecting. If they can't be vaccinated themselves, we should be doing everything we can to protect them with herd immunity.

Once we have sufficient herd immunity built up, these restrictions should obviously be eased, but I firmly believe they are necessary for the coming months.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #247 on: July 13, 2021, 05:29:39 PM »
By the CDC's own data, there were more deaths from the vaccine last week in the US than there were from the Coronavirus:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/shock-report-covid-19-vaccine-deaths-last-week-us-covid-19-deaths/

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SHOCK REPORT: There Were More COVID-19 Vaccine Deaths Last Week in US than COVID-19 Deaths

There are now 9,125 reported deaths from the COVID-19 vaccinations across the United States this year.



The number of deaths linked to vaccines this year has absolutely skyrocketed. According to the CDC’s own data, in 2021 n the first 3 months, the VAERS website recorded over 1,750 deaths due to vaccines in the US.

Last week they were reporting 6,985 deaths, and this week that number jumped up 2,043 to 9,048.

That number is now at 9,195

“The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database contains information on unverified reports of adverse events (illnesses, health problems and/or symptoms) following immunization with US-licensed vaccines. Reports are accepted from anyone and can be submitted electronically at www.vaers.hhs.gov.”

There have been 411,931 adverse reactions reported to the vaccine.

Also, last week there were 1,505 COVID-19 deaths in the United States.

That means there were more Covid vaccine deaths in the United States last week than Covid deaths in the United States last week.

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #248 on: July 13, 2021, 05:37:37 PM »
By the CDC's own data, there were more deaths from the vaccine last week in the US than there were from the Coronavirus
No, Tom. Read your own source again. Carefully this time.
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Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #249 on: July 13, 2021, 05:43:15 PM »
By the CDC's own data, there were more deaths from the vaccine last week in the US than there were from the Coronavirus
No, Tom. Read your own source again. Carefully this time.
What does this mean?

"there were more Covid vaccine deaths in the United States last week than Covid deaths in the United States last week."

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #250 on: July 13, 2021, 05:45:47 PM »
What does this mean?

"there were more Covid vaccine deaths in the United States last week than Covid deaths in the United States last week."
It means that the person who wrote that sentence has understood the numbers about as well as Tom has.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #251 on: July 13, 2021, 05:51:31 PM »
What does this mean?

"there were more Covid vaccine deaths in the United States last week than Covid deaths in the United States last week."
It means that the person who wrote that sentence has understood the numbers about as well as Tom has.

What is there to understand about the numbers?

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #252 on: July 13, 2021, 05:56:50 PM »
What is there to understand about the numbers?
Even assuming this obviously biased source is accurately reporting the numbers (which I haven't verified one way or another), you are comparing a number for the year to date with a number for last week. It is invalid to assume that an increase in a reported figure from one week to the next constitutes the number of deaths in that week. There are any number of possible reasons why the reporting of deaths could have been delayed from previous weeks.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #253 on: July 13, 2021, 06:12:10 PM »
What is there to understand about the numbers?
Even assuming this obviously biased source is accurately reporting the numbers (which I haven't verified one way or another), you are comparing a number for the year to date with a number for last week.

It's not though. It's comparing these two numbers:

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Last week they were reporting 6,985 deaths, and this week that number jumped up 2,043 to 9,048.

~

Also, last week there were 1,505 COVID-19 deaths in the United States.

Quote from: xasop
It is invalid to assume that an increase in a reported figure from one week to the next constitutes the number of deaths in that week. There are any number of possible reasons why the reporting of deaths could have been delayed from previous weeks.

Another possible reason is that the vaccine caused more deaths than the Coronavirus. Such data is certainly worth reporting and alerting us about.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 06:20:42 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #254 on: July 13, 2021, 06:32:55 PM »
Another possible reason is that the vaccine caused more deaths than the Coronavirus. Such data is certainly worth reporting and alerting us about.
Just about anything is "possible". It's not worth spreading disinformation about our best chance at beating the pandemic just because the numbers you want aren't available.
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Offline WTF_Seriously

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #255 on: July 13, 2021, 07:07:28 PM »
What is there to understand about the numbers?

Perhaps this related to VAERS reporting.(The numbers listed are as of July 6.  No idea what the date of your numbers is.)

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https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 331 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 6, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 5,946 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause.Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines.

According to the CDC the US age related death rate in 2019 was 715.2 per 100,000 us population.  That would mean one could expect 357.5 deaths per 100,000 in a six month period. If you figure 2 doses per person then we're looking at 115 people million which would equate to 411,125 expected deaths pre-covid vaccine.  So, we have 9048 vaccine deaths vs. 411,125 expected deaths.  This means that getting the vaccine puts you at 2.2% the risk of death vs. not having a vaccine if you'd like to really understand your numbers.
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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #256 on: July 13, 2021, 07:39:23 PM »
“The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database contains information on unverified reports of adverse events (illnesses, health problems and/or symptoms) following immunization with US-licensed vaccines. Reports are accepted from anyoneand can be submitted electronically

lol. Compelling.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #257 on: July 13, 2021, 08:08:27 PM »
The COVID-19 deaths are also reported even if it's unclear if COVID-19 was the cause. In fact, the people dying of it are the elderly and people with serious chronic conditions. No one is separating out how much of their death was due to their Cancer.

Quote
Just about anything is "possible". It's not worth spreading disinformation about our best chance at beating the pandemic just because the numbers you want aren't available.

Why does the pandemic need to be beat? The elderly and people with serious chronic diseases are also likely to be killed by a range of diseases. That's what happens when you get old or sick. You die.

If the vaccine is helpful, it should at best be taken by those groups that are at risk of dying of the disease; not healthy adults and children. There is no reason to perform mRNA gene experiments on the healthy.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 08:18:08 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #258 on: July 13, 2021, 08:19:54 PM »
Starting tomorrow, Malta will be the first country in the EU to close its borders to anyone not fully vaccinated (source in Dutch). I wonder how many more will follow.
They have already gone back on that. They're now just going to quarantine anyone who isn't fully vaccinated instead.
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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #259 on: July 13, 2021, 09:54:16 PM »
The COVID-19 deaths are also reported even if it's unclear if COVID-19 was the cause. In fact, the people dying of it are the elderly and people with serious chronic conditions. No one is separating out how much of their death was due to their Cancer.

That's fairly accurate. But the thing I've been looking at in the UK is all cause mortality, there were two big spikes above the average during the two waves of the virus. That tells me that there's something going on which isn't typical.
Overall the CFR (Case Fatality Rate) from Covid is around 1%. Greatly skewed towards older people, granted, but I was talking to a doctor recently who works in intensive care and he was telling me that over the last winter many of the people in hospital with Covid were in their 40s and 50s. So younger people can still get very ill.

It's been quoted above, but according to the CDC:

Quote
More than 334 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 12, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,079 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.

And VAERS is a website where literally anyone can report an Adverse Event.
And of course significantly more people have been vaccinated than have ever caught Covid.

So...I'm not sure what point you think you're making here.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis