Offline Tontogary

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2018, 08:01:22 AM »


This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?

it's so bizarre to me


Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?

Now Tom, you will have to prove that claim.

If it was a million times over ten years, then it must be 100,000 times a year. I cannot see that your post count goes up to a million, so therefore your claim must be wrong, and cannot be believed.

I too have noticed that there is a certain amount of switching off from the threads that have pretty much been denied out as far as they can. After that there seems to be silence.

There was no answer to my examples of how distances over sea can be measured, using equipment that is calibrated without relying upon a round earth, that gives results accurate to about 1.5%. This would corroborate the airline data.

I guess no one challenged it, as they couldn’t think of a reasonable way to explain it, so as far as i am concerned flat earth is busted. The airline distances are accurate which mathematically was proved to show that the flat Earth could not possibly exist.

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Offline iamcpc

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2018, 08:21:20 PM »

Now Tom, you will have to prove that claim.

If it was a million times over ten years, then it must be 100,000 times a year. I cannot see that your post count goes up to a million, so therefore your claim must be wrong, and cannot be believed.

I too have noticed that there is a certain amount of switching off from the threads that have pretty much been denied out as far as they can. After that there seems to be silence.

There was no answer to my examples of how distances over sea can be measured, using equipment that is calibrated without relying upon a round earth, that gives results accurate to about 1.5%. This would corroborate the airline data.

I guess no one challenged it, as they couldn’t think of a reasonable way to explain it, so as far as i am concerned flat earth is busted. The airline distances are accurate which mathematically was proved to show that the flat Earth could not possibly exist.


You can't compare a round earth million to a flat earth one. They are totally different.

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Offline juner

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2018, 09:05:01 PM »
You can't compare a round earth million to a flat earth one. They are totally different.

Refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. Warned.

Offline iamcpc

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2018, 08:15:10 PM »

I recall answering your question when you asked it. A mile is 5280 feet on FE and RE. The premise was that long distance systems based on a spherical coordinate systems are inaccurate in measuring a mile. Those systems are inaccurate.

At what distance does a FE mile differ from a RE mile? Has anyone done any research on this?

If a police officer uses radar showing me going 100 miles per hour is that flat earth accurate miles per hour or round earth inaccurate miles per hour?

If the coordinate systems are inaccurate are they inaccurate measuring distance or are they inaccurate measuring time or are they inaccurate measuring both?

Offline edby

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2018, 08:50:16 PM »

I recall answering your question when you asked it. A mile is 5280 feet on FE and RE. The premise was that long distance systems based on a spherical coordinate systems are inaccurate in measuring a mile. Those systems are inaccurate.
Tom, would you accept evidence based on flight times? Time can be measured using an ordinary watch, and the measurement is independent of distance or the coordinate system.

And ditto to the question above. If the coordinate systems are inaccurate are they inaccurate measuring distance or are they inaccurate measuring time or are they inaccurate measuring both?


Offline iamcpc

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2018, 09:20:29 PM »
Tom, would you accept evidence based on flight times? Time can be measured using an ordinary watch, and the measurement is independent of distance or the coordinate system.

And ditto to the question above. If the coordinate systems are inaccurate are they inaccurate measuring distance or are they inaccurate measuring time or are they inaccurate measuring both?


Flight times will not work without knowing how fast each plane was going. A plane flying 100 MPH will take 6 hours to fly a 600 mile distance while a plane flying 600 MPH will take just 1 hour. If you only looked at the flight times they could vary wildly and show no representation. In my OP i inferred that both planes were traveling the same speed. All someone has to do is that that the distance is wrong and then also the speed is wrong.

Offline edby

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2018, 08:19:32 AM »
Tom, would you accept evidence based on flight times? Time can be measured using an ordinary watch, and the measurement is independent of distance or the coordinate system.

And ditto to the question above. If the coordinate systems are inaccurate are they inaccurate measuring distance or are they inaccurate measuring time or are they inaccurate measuring both?


Flight times will not work without knowing how fast each plane was going. A plane flying 100 MPH will take 6 hours to fly a 600 mile distance while a plane flying 600 MPH will take just 1 hour. If you only looked at the flight times they could vary wildly and show no representation. In my OP i inferred that both planes were traveling the same speed. All someone has to do is that that the distance is wrong and then also the speed is wrong.

Note my other comments on the flight distance thread, and the chart correlating great circle lines with flight times. If speeds were erratic, this would show up on the chart.

Offline edby

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2018, 05:42:56 PM »
Excellent video by a longtime airline pilot with a similar challenge to FEers, i.e. to produce a flat projection that maps the flight times and the coordinates. No one managed the challenge (it requires mathematics). The comments from FEers are interesting. A couple of them pretending to be pilots, but they get sent packing

Quote
FE ‘pilot’: i don't recall flying over a ball surface as my plane is ALWAYS... ALWAYS... flying 6-7 miles above sea level and maintaining the nose up with the artificial horizon which NEVER... NEVER... drops.

Real pilot: Hello  What airline did you fly for?  Can you give us a detailed description of the fuel policy for ETP and PNR contingencies please?’

FE ‘pilot’: What does it matter what airline i work for..?? I don't need to discuss my employment or employer details with you... That is NONE of your business and the fact that you would ask that just shows your type of character.’

Real pilot: ‘+You Tube.  Another Flat Earth Pilot exposed as a fraud.  Thanks for showing us that Flat Earthers are dishonest.’
There were other comments to the effect that if you challenge FE supporters with verifiable facts they will always evade the question, and sometimes lie.

This is beginning to answer my question about human rationality. (1) Evading the question is not necessarily irrational, since it is rational to avoid cognitive dissonance (2) Lying is not irrational, quite the opposite (3) Stupidity is not irrational. A lot of the FEers clearly failed to grasp basic trigonometry, but this does not prove irrationality. To be irrational you would have to clearly grasp the mathematics, yet at the same time deny it, to yourself, consciously.

Offline iamcpc

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2018, 10:29:00 PM »
Excellent video by a longtime airline pilot with a similar challenge to FEers, i.e. to produce a flat projection that maps the flight times and the coordinates. No one managed the challenge (it requires mathematics). The comments from FEers are interesting. A couple of them pretending to be pilots, but they get sent packing

Quote
FE ‘pilot’: i don't recall flying over a ball surface as my plane is ALWAYS... ALWAYS... flying 6-7 miles above sea level and maintaining the nose up with the artificial horizon which NEVER... NEVER... drops.

Real pilot: Hello  What airline did you fly for?  Can you give us a detailed description of the fuel policy for ETP and PNR contingencies please?’

FE ‘pilot’: What does it matter what airline i work for..?? I don't need to discuss my employment or employer details with you... That is NONE of your business and the fact that you would ask that just shows your type of character.’

Real pilot: ‘+You Tube.  Another Flat Earth Pilot exposed as a fraud.  Thanks for showing us that Flat Earthers are dishonest.’
There were other comments to the effect that if you challenge FE supporters with verifiable facts they will always evade the question, and sometimes lie.

This is beginning to answer my question about human rationality. (1) Evading the question is not necessarily irrational, since it is rational to avoid cognitive dissonance (2) Lying is not irrational, quite the opposite (3) Stupidity is not irrational. A lot of the FEers clearly failed to grasp basic trigonometry, but this does not prove irrationality. To be irrational you would have to clearly grasp the mathematics, yet at the same time deny it, to yourself, consciously.



This is the foundation of any sort of conspiracy debate. We could debate if there are giant lizard aliens living in every trash can in the world. 

To the conspiracy believer any evidence that weakens the giant alien trash can lizards lizards is a lie, inaccurate, or made up.
Any evidence which supports the giant alien trash can lizards lizards is proven fact and true.

Like with the post about flight times. The speeds are inaccurate/made up. The distances are inaccurate/made up. We have been measuring speeds and distances for hundreds and hundreds of years. We have been navigating the planet using astrology for hundreds of years. 

Any speeds/distances/navigation systems which weaken (or even cast doubt on) the flat earth conspiracy are a lie, inaccurate, or made up.
Any speeds/distances/navigation systems which support the flat earth conspiracy are a proven fact and true.

Because of this there can be no sort of logical debate without some sort of common ground.


Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2018, 12:32:17 AM »
I just went to book the same fight as you and got 12 hours for your Bejing yo Los Angles fight and 18 hours for your Santiago, Australia fight. I tried this from different companys and got the same. Where did you book your fight?
   I wish people would try it before they just agree with you.

Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2018, 12:37:03 AM »
Didn't ignore it.
   I tried to book the same fight as him and got 12hours for the yellow line and 18hours for the black line. Tried 3 sites. I can't find any times he's talking about. This 13 and 14.5 hour frame.

Offline iamcpc

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2018, 05:06:23 PM »
I just went to book the same fight as you and got 12 hours for your Bejing yo Los Angles fight and 18 hours for your Santiago, Australia fight. I tried this from different companys and got the same. Where did you book your fight?
   I wish people would try it before they just agree with you.





Here's where I went to book the flight

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/book-a-trip/flights.html




Here's a screenshot showing a 14 hour and 20 minute flight time. I have verified that the departure and arrival times are correct using a very simple method:

I know when to arrive to board the plane which verified the departure time.
My family knows what time to pick me up which verifies the arrival time.





Where on earth did you go to find an 18 hour flight?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2018, 07:17:57 PM »
Did you book the flight? How do you know that you will be able to buy it, or that such a flight they end up giving you would be as advertised?

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Offline AATW

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2018, 07:22:03 PM »
Did you book the flight? How do you know that you will be able to buy it, or that such a flight they end up giving you would be as advertised?
Are you suggesting that airlines routinely advertise flights which don't exist, or lie about their duration?  ???
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2018, 07:24:53 PM »
Did you book the flight? How do you know that you will be able to buy it, or that such a flight they end up giving you would be as advertised?
Are you suggesting that airlines routinely advertise flights which don't exist, or lie about their duration?  ???

We don't know if the system will come back and tell us that the flight is unavailable when purchasing and to take another flight route. The occurence of the airliner rescheduling and adjusting flights is not unknown either. I've experienced flights that were rescheduled by airlines, even without notification, only finding out until trying to check in.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 07:37:04 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2018, 07:32:28 PM »
Did you book the flight? How do you know that you will be able to buy it, or that such a flight they end up giving you would be as advertised?
Are you suggesting that airlines routinely advertise flights which don't exist, or lie about their duration?  ???

I've had several flights that were rescheduled by airlines, even without notification, only finding out until trying to check in.
You'll need to prove that those flights were rescheduled specifically to hide that the world is flat then. There are tons of other reasons why they could have been rescheduled.
Recommended reading: We Have No Idea by Jorge Cham and Daniel Whiteson

Turtle Town, a game made by my brothers and their friends, is now in private beta for the demo! Feedback so far has been mostly positive. Contact me if you would like to play.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2018, 08:15:22 PM »
We don't know if the system will come back and tell us that the flight is unavailable when purchasing and to take another flight route. The occurrence of the airliner rescheduling and adjusting flights is not unknown either. I've experienced flights that were rescheduled by airlines, even without notification, only finding out until trying to check in.

So what? What does that prove, other than, for instance;

The pilot was taken ill, or delayed in getting to the flight
There was a breakdown with something on the plane
There was a delay due to other planes breaking down and causing a log jam with traffic control
There was an incoming emergency on another flight, and everything had to be delayed for that

Or, as recently happened in the UK

There was a meltdown in the computer system controlling booking, baggage or similar....
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Max_Almond

Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2018, 08:19:27 PM »
Lots of people have taken those flights and posted about them online, including YouTube. I also know people who have taken those flights. And, of course, conspiracy theorist Max Igan took the flight and reported no anomalies as far as time goes (he did think he had found an anomaly in bearing, but he hadn't accounted for magnetic declination).

I honestly thought that flat earthers had given up on saying things like, "they can't be booked, they can't be taken" a few years ago, given how easy it is to show they can.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2018, 09:02:11 PM »
Lots of people have taken those flights and posted about them online, including YouTube. I also know people who have taken those flights. And, of course, conspiracy theorist Max Igan took the flight and reported no anomalies as far as time goes (he did think he had found an anomaly in bearing, but he hadn't accounted for magnetic declination).

I honestly thought that flat earthers had given up on saying things like, "they can't be booked, they can't be taken" a few years ago, given how easy it is to show they can.

I'm not an avid YouTuber. In the past few years various free thinking groups took our ball and ran with it. We approve of this, but we are not always up to date on their world.

If anyone did take such a flight, then they just wasted their money, because we only ever put forward the Monopole map for visualization purposes only.

I took a look at the hot sheets and found some people claiming that Max Igan's flight showed things contrary to Round Earth Theory: https://youtu.be/pWuKU5Uik30

Also, magnetic declanation is when the North-South horizontal magnetic field lines start gettng a bit more vertical in the Antarctic and Arctic circles. It doesn't change the direction of North. It just means that you need to use a dip compass to determine North, otherwise your compass will scrape against its tray.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 09:40:00 PM by Tom Bishop »

Offline Tontogary

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Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2018, 09:39:12 PM »
Lots of people have taken those flights and posted about them online, including YouTube. I also know people who have taken those flights. And, of course, conspiracy theorist Max Igan took the flight and reported no anomalies as far as time goes (he did think he had found an anomaly in bearing, but he hadn't accounted for magnetic declination).

I honestly thought that flat earthers had given up on saying things like, "they can't be booked, they can't be taken" a few years ago, given how easy it is to show they can.

I'm not an avid YouTuber. In the past few years various free thinking groups took our ball and ran with it. We approve of this, but we are not always up to date on their world.

If anyone did take such a flight, then they just wasted their money, because we only ever put forward the Monopole map and model as an example for visualization purposes only.

I took a look at the hot sheets and found some people claiming that Max Igan's flight showed things contrary to Round Earth Theory: https://youtu.be/pWuKU5Uik30

Also, magnetic declanation is when the magnetic field lines start gettng a bit more vertical in the Antarctic and Arctic circles. It doesn't change the direction of North, to which East and West are always right angles to.

And how does that magnetic declination thingy work on a flat earth model tom? You will have to explain that to me, how the declination increases the more north and south you go, and how that ties in with the magnetic pole(s)?

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.