The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Max_Almond on June 07, 2018, 10:51:22 AM
-
It seems like lately all attempts to investigate any proposed flat earth model on here don't really progress because there isn't any model.
I mean, there used to be - the good old Gleason's map with the dome over it, and the sun and moon circling around 3000 miles high, moving in between the Tropics - but now that thinking flat earthers have accepted the impossibility of all that, the whole thing appears out the window.
So what do TFES's flat earthers believe about their model? And I'm talking basics here.
1. It's flat. We've got that much, right? It's like a giant version of Kansas. Not a sphere. A flat plane.
2. Does it have a dome over it? Many people seem to believe that. Though I don't suppose it matters.
3. Where is the sun? We can all see it, and we can all measure certain things about it. But how high is it? And where is it in relation to the Earth?
4. Does the north pole exist? I.e., is there a point in the centre of everything to which all compasses point?
5. Where is the north star? 90% of us can see it, and we can measure certain things about it. But no one seems to know where it is.
6. Where is the moon? How high? Where in relation to the plane? And how does it get in front of the sun to cause eclipses?
7. What about a map? Given how much we all move about on the surface of the planet, and how little difficulty we have doing that these days, why is there no flat earth map? Or even, it seems, the vaguest notion of where countries and cities are? Can the location of any single place on the flat earth be stated with any degree of confidence? Like: how far is LA from the north pole? From Seattle? From San Diego? Are those questions impossible to answer too?
These are the basics. They really ought to have answers by now.
-
It seems like lately all attempts to investigate any proposed flat earth model on here don't really progress because there isn't any model.
I mean, there used to be - the good old Gleason's map with the dome over it, and the sun and moon circling around 3000 miles high, moving in between the Tropics - but now that thinking flat earthers have accepted the impossibility of all that, the whole thing appears out the window.
So what do TFES's flat earthers believe about their model? And I'm talking basics here.
1. It's flat. We've got that much, right? It's like a giant version of Kansas. Not a sphere. A flat plane.
Well it has hills and mountains and valleys, but more or less flat, yes. The clue is in the name.
2. Does it have a dome over it? Many people seem to believe that. Though I don't suppose it matters.
Most FErs would agree the earth has a firmament. It matters a lot if you like breathing.
3. Where is the sun? We can all see it, and we can all measure certain things about it. But how high is it? And where is it in relation to the Earth?
Voliva holds that it is 3000 miles above earth, rowbotham 800 miles. It isn't millions of miles, of that we can be sure.
4. Does the north pole exist? I.e., is there a point in the centre of everything to which all compasses point?
Yup, right in the middle of the earth. The axis munday. Compasses point to the MAGNETIC north pole. That's another place entirely. Close, but not the same.
5. Where is the north star? 90% of us can see it, and we can measure certain things about it. But no one seems to know where it is.
It is directly above the geographic north pole.
6. Where is the moon? How high? Where in relation to the plane? And how does it get in front of the sun to cause eclipses?
Its like the sun. Same size, roughly same altitude. See Earth not a globe for an explanation on eclipses. Its not a one line answer.
7. What about a map? Given how much we all move about on the surface of the planet, and how little difficulty we have doing that these days, why is there no flat earth map? Or even, it seems, the vaguest notion of where countries and cities are? Can the location of any single place on the flat earth be stated with any degree of confidence? Like: how far is LA from the north pole? From Seattle? From San Diego? Are those questions impossible to answer too?
There are plenty of flat earth maps. In fact every map you've ever used is flat. No one pulls out a globe to work out where they are going. And they can be any projection you like. Why do we have to settle on one, when you can use as many as you like?
These are the basics. They really ought to have answers by now.
They all have answers. Just because you don't like the answers doesn't mean the answers aren't there.
-
3. Where is the sun? We can all see it, and we can all measure certain things about it. But how high is it? And where is it in relation to the Earth?
Voliva holds that it is 3000 miles above earth, rowbotham 800 miles. It isn't millions of miles, of that we can be sure.
... but you surely agree that it must be farther away than all of the Moon, Mercury and Venus, since all of these have been and can be seen to transit in front of the sun ....?
6. Where is the moon? How high? Where in relation to the plane? And how does it get in front of the sun to cause eclipses?
Its like the sun. Same size, roughly same altitude. See Earth not a globe for an explanation on eclipses. Its not a one line answer.
It cannot be at the same altitude/distance if it passes in front of the Sun
-
1. It's flat. We've got that much, right? It's like a giant version of Kansas. Not a sphere. A flat plane.
Well it has hills and mountains and valleys, but more or less flat, yes. The clue is in the name.
2. Does it have a dome over it? Many people seem to believe that. Though I don't suppose it matters.
Most FErs would agree the earth has a firmament. It matters a lot if you like breathing.
3. Where is the sun? We can all see it, and we can all measure certain things about it. But how high is it? And where is it in relation to the Earth?
Voliva holds that it is 3000 miles above earth, rowbotham 800 miles. It isn't millions of miles, of that we can be sure.
4. Does the north pole exist? I.e., is there a point in the centre of everything to which all compasses point?
Yup, right in the middle of the earth. The axis munday. Compasses point to the MAGNETIC north pole. That's another place entirely. Close, but not the same.
5. Where is the north star? 90% of us can see it, and we can measure certain things about it. But no one seems to know where it is.
It is directly above the geographic north pole.
6. Where is the moon? How high? Where in relation to the plane? And how does it get in front of the sun to cause eclipses?
Its like the sun. Same size, roughly same altitude. See Earth not a globe for an explanation on eclipses. Its not a one line answer.
7. What about a map? Given how much we all move about on the surface of the planet, and how little difficulty we have doing that these days, why is there no flat earth map? Or even, it seems, the vaguest notion of where countries and cities are? Can the location of any single place on the flat earth be stated with any degree of confidence? Like: how far is LA from the north pole? From Seattle? From San Diego? Are those questions impossible to answer too?
There are plenty of flat earth maps. In fact every map you've ever used is flat. No one pulls out a globe to work out where they are going. And they can be any projection you like. Why do we have to settle on one, when you can use as many as you like?
Thank you for your answers. Follow-up questions here:
3. How is the 3000 mile altitude of the sun calculated? And where is the sun? Like, if you think it's above the flat plane, where was it directly above today at 1200PST?
4. Why do you think there's a north pole?
5. How high is the north star above the north pole?
6. In ENaG Rowbotham says: "A solar eclipse is the result simply of the moon passing between the sun and the observer on earth." Can you draw a diagram of that please?
7a. What I mean is an accurate map of the flat plane of the earth - which, rather than a projection of the globe, as all the other accurate 2D maps are, should be a direct representation of the flat earth.
7b. How far is LA from the north pole, from Seattle, and from San Diego?
7c. Can you give the distance of any one or two places from the north pole?
Thanks again for the answers. Cheers. :)
-
I'm more interested to know if Thork believes the South Pole exists (I mean as opposed to being an ice wall around the earth).
Given that, you know, you can literally go there if you have the money, people work there and loads of people have been there and crossed it.
-
7a. What I mean is an accurate map of the flat plane of the earth - which, rather than a projection of the globe, as all the other accurate 2D maps are, should be a direct representation of the flat earth.
Not a picky point: no 2D map is accurate unless the earth is flat. If it is, we could rescale and paste together all the different maps and there you would have the FE map you were looking for.
The question is whether any 2D map is precisely accurate.
This detailed explanation https://www.bnhs.co.uk/focuson/grabagridref/html/OSGB.pdf explains how it works for the British Survey maps.