[Rushy]

You haven't even considered the kinetic energy of moving the switches.

This is the part where Thork tells us he thinks that transistors are literally a series of switches that get moved back and forth in a CPU, isn't it?

[Dr David Thork]

And you are claiming that all of the petrol goes into heating the engine and none of the energy does into driving you anywhere.

If the CPU's job was to impart kinetic energy unto the computer, this might be a valid analogy to make. Unfortunately for you, a CPU does a negligible amount of useful work, for the physical definition of "work".

Maybe your PC does a negligible amount of useful work. That I could believe.

[Pete Svarrior]

This so unbelievably simple. Not all of a processors drawn power ends up as heat on the die. I think anyone with half a brain cell could work that out. There is no such thing as a perfect machine.

This continues to be your failing. The fact that CPUs dissipate virtually all their power as heat is a sign of their extreme imperfection. To say that they're not perfect hurts your argument.

This is the part where Thork tells us he thinks that transistors are literally a series of switches that get moved back and forth in a CPU, isn't it?

Transistors haven't been in computers all that long. It is a relatively new technology.

[Rushy]

I'm still waiting for Thork to explain what he really meant by "You haven't even considered the kinetic energy of moving the switches."

[Dr David Thork]

This so unbelievably simple. Not all of a processors drawn power ends up as heat on the die. I think anyone with half a brain cell could work that out. There is no such thing as a perfect machine.

This continues to be your failing. The fact that CPUs dissipate virtually all their power as heat is a sign of their extreme imperfection. To say that they're not perfect hurts your argument.

This is the part where Thork tells us he thinks that transistors are literally a series of switches that get moved back and forth in a CPU, isn't it?

Transistors haven't been in computers all that long. It is a relatively new technology.

No, it would make them perfect heaters. They aren't.

I'm still waiting for Thork to explain what he really meant by "You haven't even considered the kinetic energy of moving the switches."

You're still going around in circles.

[Rushy]

So I'm going to go ahead and guess that you:

1. hurriedly googled what a transistor actually is.
2. realized it doesn't actually move.
3. realized you now have to brush that comment under the rug.

Now Thork, this may come as a shock to you, but everything you said in your previous comment was just as wrong as saying that transistors are a series of moving switches. Why you seem to think your software engineering degree or whatever suddenly makes you a computer hardware engineer is beyond me, but this thread is making you look like an absolute fool who understands less about electricity than a elementary school student with a my-first-circuit kit.

I would also like to point out that a 100% efficient heater is of course possible. Attach a battery to a resistor. You now have a 100% efficient heater, and 100% of the battery's stored chemical energy will become heat eventually. You're welcome.

[Dr David Thork]

I pasted the wrong image. ...

I will tell you what.

I have posted tons of links through out this thread and you just keep saying ... nah, you are wrong. That's just your shitty uneducated opinion. How about you link to something that backs YOUR position. Just one link. Cos I've seen fuck all out of any of you.

Show me TDP = power draw.

[xasop]

Show me TDP = power draw.

Nobody is saying that it does. That doesn't make your fantasy world in which CPUs absorb energy and violate fundamental laws of physics real.

[Rushy]

I pasted the wrong image. ...

I will tell you what.

I have posted tons of links through out this thread and you just keep saying ... nah, you are wrong. That's just your shitty uneducated opinion. How about you link to something that backs YOUR position. Just one link. Cos I've seen fuck all out of any of you.

Show me TDP = power draw.

Heat dissipated in a circuit always equals the power draw of that circuit. Literally an introductory concept of electronic physics. TDP is just a theoretical amount, Thork. No CPU actually sticks to its TDP 100% of the time.

[Dr David Thork]

Show me TDP = power draw.

Nobody is saying that it does. That doesn't make your fantasy world in which CPUs absorb energy and violate fundamental laws of physics real.

Yes they were. Pete said

I will, however, invite you to consider the fact that you're running one of the coolest CPUs available for desktops in the past 2 decades.

And I rebutted that by saying my processor had TDP of 65W and therefore was no cooler than 65W desktop processors of 20 years ago.

And then you all didn't know the difference between TDP and power draw.

Back on topic... my PC is not running a cool CPU. Its just got better cooling than was possible 20 years ago because of heat pipe tech and so AIOs pushing desktop performance is now a thing.

don't just start lying in the thread.

[Dr David Thork]

I pasted the wrong image. ...

I will tell you what.

I have posted tons of links through out this thread and you just keep saying ... nah, you are wrong. That's just your shitty uneducated opinion. How about you link to something that backs YOUR position. Just one link. Cos I've seen fuck all out of any of you.

Show me TDP = power draw.

Heat dissipated in a circuit always equals the power draw of that circuit. Literally an introductory concept of electronic physics. TDP is just a theoretical amount, Thork. No CPU actually sticks to its TDP 100% of the time.

Not on the CPU die it doesn't for all the reasons I gave earlier. You can't say every watt that goes into a cpu comes out as a perfect full watt of heat. That's just bollocks. SHOW ME A LINK!

[Pete Svarrior]

And I rebutted that by saying my processor had TDP of 65W and therefore was no cooler than 65W desktop processors of 20 years ago.

Indeed, your high-end CPU is (probably) no cooler than a very-low-end CPU of yesteryear. The fact that you keep trying to conflate them is hilarious.

Its just got better cooling than was possible 20 years ago because of heat pipe tech and so AIOs pushing desktop performance is now a thing.

This continues to be factually incorrect. Heat pipes are not a new invention, nor have they seen any significant developments in the past decade. If you're so desperate as to compare it to stuff from 1998, well, you're still wrong, but slightly less wrong.

[xasop]

And I rebutted that by saying my processor had TDP of 65W and therefore was no cooler than 65W desktop processors of 20 years ago.

Which is not necessarily correct. Have you considered the problem may be that you don't know the difference between TDP and heat output?

[Rushy]

And I rebutted that by saying my processor had TDP of 65W and therefore was no cooler than 65W desktop processors of 20 years ago.

Yes and that's still wrong because you don't understand that a CPU today doesn't have to use its max energy rating all the time unlike older CPUs. A modern 4 GHz CPU can downclock itself to 1 GHz while idling or performing easy tasks, which saves a tremendous amount of energy, and thereby heat.

And then you all didn't know the difference between TDP and power draw.

Heat dissipated and power used are the same thing, Thork. The problem here is that you insisted on using the power drawn by the wall, in which we all had to explain to you that is heat dissipated by your PSU, not your CPU. If your CPU draws 120W from the wall, but dissipates 65W of heat, then that means the other 55W is heat coming from some other components (namely, the PSU).

Back on topic... my PC is not running a cool CPU. Its just got better cooling than was possible 20 years ago because of heat pipe tech and so AIOs pushing desktop performance is now a thing.

don't just start lying in the thread.

Your PC is most definitely running a cool CPU, and it's definitely not thanks to the """"relatively new"""" discovery that copper can transfer heat from one place to another...

[Pete Svarrior]

thanks to """"relatively new"""" discovery that copper can transfer heat from one place to another...

Now, Rushy, don't lie. It's a copper tube filled with a fluid.

[Dr David Thork]

And I rebutted that by saying my processor had TDP of 65W and therefore was no cooler than 65W desktop processors of 20 years ago.

Which is not necessarily correct. Have you considered the problem may be that you don't know the difference between TDP and heat output?

This is mind boggling nonsense. If my PC has a TDP of 65W, I can expect it to warm my PC as much as any other 65W TDP processor on any given day. I shouldn't expect it to run cooler than a 35W TDP processor of yesteryear.

And I rebutted that by saying my processor had TDP of 65W and therefore was no cooler than 65W desktop processors of 20 years ago.

Yes and that's still wrong because you don't understand that a CPU today doesn't have to use its max energy rating all the time unlike older CPUs. A modern 4 GHz CPU can downclock itself to 1 GHz while idling or performing easy tasks, which saves a tremendous amount of energy, and thereby heat.

Incorrect. I'd love you to find me a 4GHz processor that drops to 1Ghz. They don't. 2.2GHz from 4 GHz is still a hell of a drop these days. Also as someone who probably overclocks their potato, you should know that locks your clock speed all the time.

And then you all didn't know the difference between TDP and power draw.

Heat dissipated and power used are the same thing, Thork. The problem here is that you insisted on using the power drawn by the wall, in which we all had to explain to you that is heat dissipated by your PSU, not your CPU. If your CPU draws 120W from the wall, but dissipates 65W of heat, then that means the other 55W is heat coming from some other components (namely, the PSU).

No. You guys are the ones who quoted power draw figures from CPUs and made out they were how much heat needed to be dissipated.

Back on topic... my PC is not running a cool CPU. Its just got better cooling than was possible 20 years ago because of heat pipe tech and so AIOs pushing desktop performance is now a thing.

don't just start lying in the thread.

Your PC is most definitely running a cool CPU, and it's definitely not thanks to """"relatively new"""" discovery that copper can transfer heat from one place to another...

Yeah, I'd like a link out of you. I know you never back anything you say with evidence, but you write so much shit. Show me that the ryzen 1400 is a cool chip please.

thanks to """"relatively new"""" discovery that copper can transfer heat from one place to another...

Now, Rushy, don't lie. It's a copper tube filled with a fluid.

Kind of important to note that. That used to be an expensive thing to manufacture.

[Rushy]

Incorrect. I'd love you to find me a 4GHz processor that drops to 1Ghz. They don't. 2.2GHz from 4 GHz is still a hell of a drop these days. Also as someone who probably overclocks their potato, you should know that locks your clock speed all the time.

Thork, my current processor, an 8700k, drops from 5GHz to 800MHz when idle. Could you really, just really please stop making shit up...

[Dr David Thork]

Incorrect. I'd love you to find me a 4GHz processor that drops to 1Ghz. They don't. 2.2GHz from 4 GHz is still a hell of a drop these days. Also as someone who probably overclocks their potato, you should know that locks your clock speed all the time.

Thork, my current processor, an 8700k, drops from 5GHz to 800MHz when idle. Could you really, just really please stop making shit up...

Prove that.



Here's my 1.8GHz base clock PC at 4%. Never gets below 1.2 GHz.

Show me your 5Ghz processor at 800Mhz please.

[Rushy]

[Pete Svarrior]

Kind of important to note that. That used to be an expensive thing to manufacture.

Yes, in the 1940s it was. Keep in mind that you're arguing that powerful AiOs (not to be confused with laptops - you like to make that conflation too) were not recently possible, even at the time when the technology you credit for this was commonplace in computing.

You also remarked that a significant amount of energy in CPUs is converted to kinetic energy. I'll just let that sink in.

Since you like links, perhaps others can explain this more simply: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/79166/where-does-all-the-power-consumed-by-a-cpu-go - because the Law of Conservation of Energy is a thing, and because your computer doesn't power many things outside of its case, virtually all energy drawn will turn into heat inside the case.