41

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: RE Lunar Phases With Extreme Perspective Changes

« on: July 08, 2020, 06:22:42 PM »

I don't see how it would be possible to know how perpendicular your string is to the Moon without some sort of perspective clues.

Consider a green cone perpendicular to the camera:



When putting up a string against it, it cuts through it horizontally.

Now we stand at another non-perpendicular position:



The string still cuts straight through. The only way we know that we are not perpendicular is by the perspective changes apparent in the 3D cone and scene. Otherwise it looks like the string cuts straight through the overall shape of the cone. With the Moon, however, we can't see such changes and visual clues (due to FE-EA theory/RE long distance theory).

Here is a better experiment. The next time you see the Moon Tilt Illusion, turn to look at the Moon so that it is in the center of your vision. Take a string and hold it out arms length, as far from your head as you can, against the Moon, keeping the Moon in the center of your vision. You will see the string shoot off into space:



While it might be possible to carefully position your string and camera in such a way that the Moon seems to connect to the Sun, simply holding the string as far as you can away from yourself, while keeping the Moon in the center, will show that the string shoots off into space.

The trouble with your explanation is that you are trying to make a string perpendicular to the cone on two planes. This would require perspective from both planes. We only get to perceive the sun and moon on one plane because the objects are so far away.

Because I can only perceive the sun and moon in a single plane, making the string perpendicular on that plane is all that matters.

We are currently in a waning moon phase, so I should be able to test this out in the next couple days.

42

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Are the American police out of control?

« on: July 08, 2020, 02:22:18 AM »

Again, supposed "facts" that you do not back up with any supporting evidence. And you say I'm blowing, what was it you said, "fluff and ala kazaam"?

Yep.

Try the internet. It is wonderful.

You have attempted to discredit any and all references that have been provided to you from the grand interwebs, and yet here you are, pronouncing with such confidence, "Check my facts with the internet." ... surely you won't find any fluff and ala-kazaam there now will you....

43

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: RE Lunar Phases With Extreme Perspective Changes

« on: July 08, 2020, 01:12:01 AM »

https://wiki.tfes.org/Moon_Tilt_Illusion#String_Experiment

String Experiment

Along the same lines as the above, we are given reference to "string experiments" in which the direction of the Moon's illuminated portion is able to be connected to the sun with a string.


Credit: Bobby Shafto

It has been argued that the string experiment shows that the bodies do actually point at each other. An illusion of some type is occurring and the string experiment "breaks the illusion," demonstrating that the illuminated portion of the Moon is actually pointing at the Sun. If it was not pointing at the Sun then it would not be possible to hold a straight piece of string along that path.

As a reply to this, consider the following scenario:

You are laying down on the ground on your back, facing upwards, and at the edges of your vision see the top of a pine tree on one side of your vision, and the top of a cabin on the other. You take out a string and connect them together across your vision. Have you proved that the tree is pointing at the cabin?

If you are laying down on the ground on your back and see the Moon pointing upwards on one side of your vision and see the Sun setting at the horizon on the other, a string connecting the two will no more prove that the Moon is pointing at the Sun than it would prove that a tree is pointing at a cabin. When you lay on your back you can see 190 degrees of space¹. Just because an object at one side might be pointing "up" at another object at the other side, it doesn't mean that they are pointing at each other.

When wrapped around the observer, this panoramic view of the moon tilt illusion:



Turns into this:



Art Credit: Todd Lockwood

In the above example both the Moon and airplane are on opposite sides of the Sun near point B. The Sun is on the horizon at point A. The Moon and airplane are not actually pointing at the Sun. The string merely connects them two dimensionally across a 'sphere of vision' exactly like the tree-cabin example.

If the airplane was actually pointing at the Sun in the above example, then when looking at the airplane face on, with the Sun on the horizon to your back, you should see the airplane pointed at you and tilted downwards towards the opposite horizon behind you. The same would also apply for the Moon. If the Moon were pointing at the Sun then when you face the Moon its illumined portion should point downwards at the Sun at the horizon behind you, just as an airplane would. Thus, we see that this assertion that the string experiment demonstrates that an illusion is occurring and that bodies are pointing at each other is erroneous. The string experiment may suggest that object positions and straight line paths behave as if they are curving on a dome of some manner, which may provide us with a clue in deciphering the nature of our world, but it does not demonstrate absolute directions of bodies.

A fish-bowl type simulation of the Moon Tilt Illusion can be seen in University of Nebraska-Lincoln's Moon Phases and the Horizon Diagram (.swf Archive) - "Provides a method of learning the correlation between the phase of the moon, the time of day, and the position of the moon in the sky."



Footnotes

¹ "our eyes sit in the front of our head, allowing us to see about 60 percent of world in front of us with both eyes, at the compromise that we can only see at maximum about 190 degrees around us (Block 1969; Wolfe 2006)" – Human Spatial Navigation, 2018, p.73

Thank you, Tom, for providing the links that I was referring to!

You can either believe this to be true or you can believe it to be false. It’s “pure imagination”. - Willy Wonka

Edit:

It is obvious to anyone who understands trigonometry that you can connect a straight line from any single point to any other single point.

What makes this the 'Bobby Shafto' observation (string experiment) differnt, is that the line connecting the dots has a perpendicular relationship with one of the points. That limits where the other point can reside. That is simple trigonometry.

44

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: RE Lunar Phases With Extreme Perspective Changes

« on: July 07, 2020, 05:46:48 PM »

The explanation for the Moon Tilt Illusion in RE is an effect of perspective.

When viewing the Moon Tilt Illusion, the Moon will often be tilted upwards:

It isn't really an illusion. If you know where the sun is in relation to the moon, you could take a string and hold it perpendicular to the angle the moon appears, and it will line up with the sun, as it should. This is easier to replicate when you can see the moon during the day because then you can see the sun as well, and line it up. If you do it at night, you will need to use an app to gauge roughly where the sun is and it should line right up with it.

The only reason the moon appears to have a tilt away from the sun is because the sun is further than you perceive it to be.

Bobby Shafto demonstrated this in a video a year or two ago (I tried to find it, but many of Bobby's linked images and videos are gone) - Tom, you were part of this debate. He literally held a string perpendicular to the moon (albeit during the day), and ran it out to the horizon and it lined up directly with the sun even though the moon appeared to have a tilt. How would you explain this?

45

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Are the American police out of control?

« on: July 07, 2020, 05:09:01 PM »

Don't need experience to quote facts.

Don't need experience of US policing to quote videos which show them brutalising the citizens they are supposed to protect and serve.

Yeah, it happens.

Yeah, I will still take these instances, knowing that justice will ultimately be served in the long run for all concerned.

One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that you would have no clue about policing anywhere, let alone the US.

One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that your reality exists in-so-far-as your nose goes.

You really should stop posting.... on the other hand, the entertainment level is clearly up because of you - good job.... I guess?

People generally tend to find the posting of facts and science to be informative and entertaining.

That's true, you should try it sometime.

Here is another series of facts.

In areas like Chicago, Seattle, New York, and DC, where the protests and calls for defunding the police are loudest, they are experiencing the largest rates of gun violence and murders, predominately committed by otherwise peaceful black citizens upon other peaceful black citizens.

Not surprisingly, these areas also have the most strict gun control laws in the country.

I am happy to be able to provide these facts on the forum, in order to fill the void as it were.

Again, supposed "facts" that you do not back up with any supporting evidence. And you say I'm blowing, what was it you said, "fluff and ala kazaam"?

46

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Are the American police out of control?

« on: July 06, 2020, 04:16:36 PM »

Don't need experience to quote facts.

Don't need experience of US policing to quote videos which show them brutalising the citizens they are supposed to protect and serve.

Yeah, it happens.

Yeah, I will still take these instances, knowing that justice will ultimately be served in the long run for all concerned.

One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that you would have no clue about policing anywhere, let alone the US.

One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that your reality exists in-so-far-as your nose goes.

You really should stop posting.... on the other hand, the entertainment level is clearly up because of you - good job.... I guess?

47

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Are the American police out of control?

« on: July 06, 2020, 04:00:02 PM »

It seems like the only course of action the man could have taken was to apologize to the officers for dancing in the street and say he was going to go home. This however would have been to accept that you do not have the freedom to dance in the street - which we do. In a residential area, it is perfectly legal to dance or do many many many other things on the street - none of which warranty a call to the police, or to be forcefully arrested and placed into a squad car.

The police are called to a scene, having received a report.

They are required to report to that scene.

I know you want a world where the police just ignore all that, but that really isn't how it works.

You have an idea of what does and what doesn't warrant police investigation and/or intervention and I'm sure you realize others have their views about it also.

Yes, they are required to report to the scene. They are not required to detain you.

They are if they believe there is something to detain you for.

And that is their call.

Not yours.

Right, and this is exactly why it is being called into question. Did the police officers make the right decision? Was there any 'real' reason to detain him? What if he were white?

The fact that you ignore these questions might explain why you see things in binary.

This wasn't just a case of police "doing their jobs". They put their hands on him, when there was no sign of danger, no sign of threat. And the man didn't even try to resist by any means other than words.

The police can put their hands on you or anyone else.

So can I or anyone else.

There are consequences to that action.

Let's not get distracted by pedantry.

Funny, I am not the one getting distracted by pedantry, you are.

I am stating facts, you are not.

Your pedantic facts are deliberately misleading and taking away from the point I was making. And you even acknowledge this when you state the next post of

Good thing I never wrote this.

What was the point in stating a fact that has literally nothing to do with the argument? Glad you are able to touch someone.... your hands work, good job. Now let's get back to the point.

Police are not just allowed to touch someone, and you are not just allowed to touch someone.

What is bad, however, is your ability to interpret simple English and relatively straightforward language.

You seem to have the inability to interpret simple logic, so there's that.

Police officers must have a reason to arrest you before they touch you in any way.

Horse hockey.
 

Any other reason to touch someone can be considered harassment. This man displayed no aggression when they grabbed his hands. Any normal person would feel violated at that point.

Any normal person wouldn't be dancing in the street.

Really? That sounds like a pretty rigid view on life - I feel sorry for you.

If you touch someone, you are more likely to be charged with harassment because you do not get the same benefit of doubt that police officers are awarded.

It is good you can post a likelihood.

Now if we can just proceed to reality.

I cringe at the thought of what you consider reality.

48

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Are the American police out of control?

« on: July 06, 2020, 03:27:02 PM »

It seems like the only course of action the man could have taken was to apologize to the officers for dancing in the street and say he was going to go home. This however would have been to accept that you do not have the freedom to dance in the street - which we do. In a residential area, it is perfectly legal to dance or do many many many other things on the street - none of which warranty a call to the police, or to be forcefully arrested and placed into a squad car.

The police are called to a scene, having received a report.

They are required to report to that scene.

I know you want a world where the police just ignore all that, but that really isn't how it works.

You have an idea of what does and what doesn't warrant police investigation and/or intervention and I'm sure you realize others have their views about it also.

Yes, they are required to report to the scene. They are not required to detain you.

This wasn't just a case of police "doing their jobs". They put their hands on him, when there was no sign of danger, no sign of threat. And the man didn't even try to resist by any means other than words.

The police can put their hands on you or anyone else.

So can I or anyone else.

There are consequences to that action.

Let's not get distracted by pedantry.

Police are not just allowed to touch someone, and you are not just allowed to touch someone.

Police officers must have a reason to arrest you before they touch you in any way. Any other reason to touch someone can be considered harassment. This man displayed no aggression when they grabbed his hands. Any normal person would feel violated at that point.

If you touch someone, you are more likely to be charged with harassment because you do not get the same benefit of doubt that police officers are awarded.

49

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Are the American police out of control?

« on: July 06, 2020, 02:51:38 PM »

black man was arrested for dancing in the street... Wut. Why would it escalate to that point? Police are supposed to be trained to deescalate. I understand they have to investigate when someone calls them but... Cops arrive, ask the guy if everything is all good, guy says year just doing my morning routine. Cops at that point should have just stopped bothering him but instead went into restraining him, which is ridiculous. And having to have neighbours come out and vouch for you to the police is also ridiculous because he was doing nothing wrong... It's a completely bizarre exchange between the police and the guy.
 

See, you don't even understand the principles of lawful detention for the purposes of investigation and lawful arrest.

Just terrible.

Being questioned by police and detained by police are two different things. It went from questioning to detaining in a split second for virtually no reason.

It seems like the only course of action the man could have taken was to apologize to the officers for dancing in the street and say he was going to go home. This however would have been to accept that you do not have the freedom to dance in the street - which we do. In a residential area, it is perfectly legal to dance or do many many many other things on the street - none of which warranty a call to the police, or to be forcefully arrested and placed into a squad car.

This wasn't just a case of police "doing their jobs". They put their hands on him, when there was no sign of danger, no sign of threat. And the man didn't even try to resist by any means other than words.

50

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Are the American police out of control?

« on: July 06, 2020, 02:13:46 PM »

black man was arrested for dancing in the street... Wut. Why would it escalate to that point? Police are supposed to be trained to deescalate. I understand they have to investigate when someone calls them but... Cops arrive, ask the guy if everything is all good, guy says year just doing my morning routine. Cops at that point should have just stopped bothering him but instead went into restraining him, which is ridiculous. And having to have neighbours come out and vouch for you to the police is also ridiculous because he was doing nothing wrong... It's a completely bizarre exchange between the police and the guy.
 

This is absurd. Props to the dancing guy - I wouldn't have been able to keep my cool as well as he did in that situation. I would be looking to sue the police department if they did that to me. On top of humiliating the guy, they had audacity to give him a resting arrest ticket. Couldn't get him on anything else because he wasn't doing ANYTHING wrong, but because the man tried to preserve a little dignity he was guilty of resisting arrest. Surprising he didn't get shot when he reached for his car keys.

51

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Black Lives Matter

« on: June 30, 2020, 09:02:14 PM »

To be honest, I thought that was a Thork post, it's a very Thork thing to say.

I haven't posted in this thread for ages. I lit the touch paper and walked away from this dumpster fire ages ago.

White families were able to and that wealth has trickled down the generations in a way it hasn't for black families.

Are you a trust fund kid or something? No one gave me anything. White people aren't inheriting a fortune on their 18th birthday. Where do you get this nonsense? Most white people EARN a living. They don't get bursaries or grants for being BAME. They just get on with working hard. It is why they are called the working class.

There's a difference between *** INHERITING MILLIONS!!!! *** and being privileged enough to have land that your ancestors were able to acquire, or inability to acquire (if you're black) which had everything to do with the Jim Crow laws and racism of our history. This is the wealth (I believe) AATW is speaking of.

52

Technology & Information / Re: Dell TechDirect

« on: June 30, 2020, 06:46:02 PM »

Just finished my first Dell TechDirect self-help dispatch ticket.

Had to replace a motherboard on an in-warranty Latitude 5490. With Dell TechDirect, I was able to login to a portal, create a ticket with a brief description of the issue and troubleshooting steps, then select the part I needed. A few days later, the board arrived, with a return shipping label for the defective board. Very slick. Didn't have to call Dell or talk to a single tech rep, it was awesome!

Yeah, I loved that about Dell self repair.  Lenovo has something similar but it's much harder to get.  We just do the self ticket and they send a 3rd party repair guy to fix it.

Ah, wonder if they'll have some incentive to ditch the repair guy and let people do it themselves now that they risk COVID infection by doing house-calls.

53

Technology & Information / Dell TechDirect

« on: June 30, 2020, 06:41:08 PM »

Just finished my first Dell TechDirect self-help dispatch ticket.

Had to replace a motherboard on an in-warranty Latitude 5490. With Dell TechDirect, I was able to login to a portal, create a ticket with a brief description of the issue and troubleshooting steps, then select the part I needed. A few days later, the board arrived, with a return shipping label for the defective board. Very slick. Didn't have to call Dell or talk to a single tech rep, it was awesome!

Plus, you get access to resources like assembly/disassembly manuals.

54

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Black Lives Matter

« on: June 30, 2020, 04:27:37 PM »

Your entire post is simply a fake mantra.

Read Thomas Sowell and take it up with him.

I'll take the word of a black professor over yours any day of the week.

Yeah, that was a racist thing to write, so sue me.

This isn't my word.

Most of what I've said comes from the words of a man who lived with crack dealers in New York City for several years journaling his entire experience and interviewing them first-hand in order to write a book about it.

Edit:

The book is called "In Search of Respect" - Philippe Bourgois

55

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Profile post ordering

« on: June 30, 2020, 03:45:23 PM »

Getting rid of the numbers might be the best solution. Alternatively, we can generate a random integer for each post. Or select a random emoji.

Selecting a random emoji would be fun. Would it also show you the bbcode for it?!

Edit:

@Pete, didn't mean to ignore your question. Clyde has it right:

The way I read it, it sounds like when one is looking at anyone's post history, that person's most recent post should match what their current post count is (let's say that person has 1000 posts... the post numbered 1000 in that case would be the 1000th post that this hypothetical person had made). Similarly, that person's first-ever post on the forum should show up as post number 1 in their post count.

56

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Black Lives Matter

« on: June 30, 2020, 03:30:01 PM »

To add on to Tim’s point about the continuation of racism, the economic conditions that many systemically oppressed black people found themselves in are inherited today as well.

Thomas Sowell proves your stated position is devoid of substance.

Lifestyle choice is not systemic.

You are correct, but we are not talking about "lifestyle choices". Because of Jim Crow laws, it wasn't their choice to live in impoverished locations, with low resources. It wasn't their choice to be forced to accepting low-paying, low-class jobs. It wasn't their choice that dealing drugs and prostitution was the most sustainable way to live - yes it was their choice to participate, but it was not their choice that it was the most profitable way to survive.

In fact, if you study inner-city marginalization, you find that many drug dealers attempted to get out of that business and "go legit". Struggling to survive on a legit income is much harder if you are black, poor, and marginalized. <- none of those things are anyone's choice.

So, I'm not sure why you call these "lifestyle choices" because nobody chooses their skin color, nobody chooses where there they are born, and nobody chooses what socio-economic class they are born into.

All Rama is saying is that a lot of this is still true today - Jim Crow laws disappeared, but that didn't automatically make anyone's lives better, or matter more.

57

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Profile post ordering

« on: June 30, 2020, 03:21:47 PM »

Well, suppose it is possible to set permission levels so that each user can see all of their own posts (even deleted ones), so that the numbers would have unambiguous meaning? Then the only thing that would throw it off is like parsifal said, if you post while someone is looking at your post history - but this seems like a moot point because I'm talking about looking at my own posts, not someone else looking at my posts.

Sometimes I like to look at my old posts and seeing my most recent post as post #1 is misleading. Getting rid of the numbers is not a terrible idea.... I can pretty accurately surmise which posts were my first and last without numbers.

As I said in my OP, very very VERY not a big deal.

58

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide

« on: June 30, 2020, 02:57:05 AM »

Thork, I want people to have that attitude. I want people to be paranoid that the Orange Man will win again,  despite the overwhelming evidence that he won't. Apparently it's the only way to energize enough Democrats to make a difference.

Sadly America's youth will not vote, they just can't be bothered.  Maybe if they could vote on Tik Tok?

I don't know... with all that has happened lately, I wonder if it will outrage enough young people to pay attention.

59

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: June 30, 2020, 01:56:36 AM »

Presidents get a secret service detail for life.

What if they get charged for felony crimes? I know the president can avoid a lot in a court just by virtue of being president, but does that still apply after presidency, and if he is charged for felonies after presidency, does that affect his eligibility for having a lifetime personal body guard?

60

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Profile post ordering

« on: June 30, 2020, 01:33:13 AM »

In theory, changing this for everyone should be a matter of changing DESC to ASC somewhere in the code. Making it configurable per user might be a little more work or a lot more work, you never know with SMF.

If you're up to the challenge of trying this yourself, our code is on GitHub. No obligation, of course, just if you want to.

Huh, cool. Never know, I could get bored enough some time.

Thanks!