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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #520 on: September 25, 2020, 04:35:11 PM »
"... a 39-year-old criminal defense and First Amendment attorney in Durham, North Carolina, named T. Greg Doucette started compiling videos of police brutality in a Twitter thread. Doucette, who describes himself as conservative but not Republican (not anymore), has been sharing videos of police brutality on social media since 2007, but says he was frustrated at how the furor would die down between incidents: “When you’re just doing it once every couple of days, no one really sees that it’s a systemic problem. They say, ‘That’s just one bad apple.’ ”

So when the Floyd protests began, Doucette decided to wait until he had 10 videos before posting them. It only took two days. “I posted those 10 from cities all over the country,” he says. “Then other people started sending me stuff, so I started adding those in as well, and it ended up snowballing into a hot mess.” As of this writing, Doucette’s thread contained at least 775 videos documenting police violence at protests around the country since May 29."

https://www.elle.com/culture/a33591530/tiktok-activism/
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #521 on: September 25, 2020, 05:14:10 PM »

Rama Set

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #522 on: September 25, 2020, 06:03:43 PM »


Keep a CCW in your cars, folks.

And don’t drive your vehicle in to a crowd of people either.

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #523 on: September 25, 2020, 07:16:13 PM »


Keep a CCW in your cars, folks.

And don’t drive your vehicle in to a crowd of people either.

Lot of isntances where crowds surronded a vehicle.  Floria is making it legal to run in these cases even if you run over someone.  Smart move
Do you have a citation for this sweeping generalisation?

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #524 on: September 25, 2020, 07:59:49 PM »
The car in front of the Prius turned away from the crowd. The Prius drove into it. Were the protesters just supposed to turn the other cheek when the Prius driver attempted to push them out of the way with his ton of metal?
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #525 on: September 25, 2020, 08:08:09 PM »
Were the protesters just supposed to turn the other cheek when the Prius driver attempted to push them out of the way with his ton of metal?
It's a bit of an unwritten social contract that people try not to be in the way of a moving vehicle. Those who choose not to follow that contract are usually given a very special kind of medical attention.
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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #526 on: September 25, 2020, 08:10:37 PM »


Keep a CCW in your cars, folks.

And don’t drive your vehicle in to a crowd of people either.

Lot of isntances where crowds surronded a vehicle.  Floria is making it legal to run in these cases even if you run over someone.  Smart move

Smarter move would have been to just go elsewhere.

Rama Set

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #527 on: September 25, 2020, 08:11:11 PM »
Were the protesters just supposed to turn the other cheek when the Prius driver attempted to push them out of the way with his ton of metal?
It's a bit of an unwritten social contract that people try not to be in the way of a moving vehicle. Those who choose not to follow that contract are usually given a very special kind of medical attention.

Except that the street was quite obviously teeming with people.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #528 on: September 25, 2020, 08:17:09 PM »


Keep a CCW in your cars, folks.

And don’t drive your vehicle in to a crowd of people either.

It's unlikely this person drove into the street expecting a crowd of morons to be blocking it, so they just tried to gently drive through and then the crowd of morons started beating on the car. After driving through a crowd with zero injuries, a truck proceeded to try to run the man down anyway. Really great stuff.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 08:19:44 PM by Rushy »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #529 on: September 25, 2020, 08:26:58 PM »
Except that the street was quite obviously teeming with people.
It is an expressly written and legally enforceable contract that that's not how streets work.
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #530 on: September 25, 2020, 10:36:34 PM »
It's a bit of an unwritten social contract that people try not to be in the way of a moving vehicle.

The middle pedal, on a manual transmission car, is the brake pedal. It is used in conjunction with the steering to either stop the car, or steer away, when confronted with an unexpected obstacle or hazard on the road ahead. This could include debris from other vehicles, road accident victims, jaywalkers, someone taken ill, or, as we have here, a spontaneous protest.

The idea is to avoid harm to the car, the occupants, and to whatever or whomever the hazard is.

It's generally accepted that deliberately driving TOWARD the hazard, with the intent of ploughing through it, is the wrong approach, regardless of whether or not the hazard should be there or not.
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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #531 on: September 25, 2020, 11:02:00 PM »
Except that the street was quite obviously teeming with people.
It is an expressly written and legally enforceable contract that that's not how streets work.

Someone jay walking is not permission to hit them with a car.  What is this silliness?  The whole situation was all sorts of wrong, but let's not pretend it was a bad idea to try and force your vehicle through a crowd?  The protesters can be wrong as well as the driver being wrong.


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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #532 on: September 27, 2020, 12:46:44 PM »
Someone jay walking is not permission to hit them with a car.
They weren't jaywalking, were they?

let's not pretend it was a bad idea to try and force your vehicle through a crowd?
I know this was a slip of the tongue, but... ;)

The protesters can be wrong as well as the driver being wrong.
Sure, both sides did dumb things, but one side is disproportionately dumber and (rightly, in my view) is thus being held to account. Hopefully cementing this in the law will prevent future incidents.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #533 on: September 27, 2020, 01:34:30 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't pedestrians always have the right of way?
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Offline honk

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #534 on: September 27, 2020, 03:01:04 PM »
Pedestrians are people who are actually traveling on foot, not simply standing or protesting in the middle of the street.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

Rama Set

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #535 on: September 27, 2020, 03:56:29 PM »
Someone jay walking is not permission to hit them with a car.
They weren't jaywalking, were they?

Whatever misdemeanour you want to accuse them of.

Quote
let's not pretend it was a bad idea to try and force your vehicle through a crowd?
I know this was a slip of the tongue, but... ;)

Clever boy.

Quote
The protesters can be wrong as well as the driver being wrong.
Sure, both sides did dumb things, but one side is disproportionately dumber and (rightly, in my view) is thus being held to account. Hopefully cementing this in the law will prevent future incidents.

Is the side driving a car in to a crowd of people the dumber one?  I don't know where you stand on this.  I don't see one as dumber than the other since the car is much deadlier in that setting.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #536 on: September 27, 2020, 05:11:55 PM »
I don't see one as dumber than the other since the car is much deadlier in that setting.
In this particular case, the car was remarkably non-deadly. As in, caused precisely zero deaths, and no bodily harm as far as I'm aware of. It would seem that, under the circumstances, the driver did his utmost to minimise the risk he presented to others. Did he do everything right? Fuck no. Was he "deadlier" than the crowd of madmen that actively tried to harm him? I'd need some convincing.

The crowd went out of their way to chase the car after it cleared the blockade and caused significant damage to property. One of them directly assaulted the driver, trying to rip him out of his car. What do you think would have happened if they successfully extracted him from the car? I don't think they wanted to hug him.

To me, the balance is pretty obvious. The driver is lucky to have got out alive, and the protesters are the ones who intended on causing harm to another person.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 05:20:29 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #537 on: September 27, 2020, 06:15:48 PM »
I don't see one as dumber than the other since the car is much deadlier in that setting.
In this particular case, the car was remarkably non-deadly. As in, caused precisely zero deaths, and no bodily harm as far as I'm aware of. It would seem that, under the circumstances, the driver did his utmost to minimise the risk he presented to others. Did he do everything right? Fuck no. Was he "deadlier" than the crowd of madmen that actively tried to harm him? I'd need some convincing.

The crowd went out of their way to chase the car after it cleared the blockade and caused significant damage to property. One of them directly assaulted the driver, trying to rip him out of his car. What do you think would have happened if they successfully extracted him from the car? I don't think they wanted to hug him.

To me, the balance is pretty obvious. The driver is lucky to have got out alive, and the protesters are the ones who intended on causing harm to another person.

A car moving at 5mph is incredibly capable of causing bodily harm, so there isn't a standard of care in a non-emergency that mitigates driving in to a crowd in my eyes.  That no one was hurt is irrelevant to the recklessness of the action.  I'm not going to try and justify the mob that went after the driver either.

For me it's just a nice microcosm of American attitudes towards others in their society.  "You're in my way! Fuck you!" "But I believe in something so fuck YOU!"

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #538 on: September 27, 2020, 06:16:43 PM »
For me it's just a nice microcosm of American attitudes towards others in their society.  "You're in my way! Fuck you!" "But I believe in something so fuck YOU!"
All things aside, I can definitely agree with that take.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #539 on: September 27, 2020, 06:46:21 PM »
For me it's just a nice microcosm of American attitudes towards others in their society.  "You're in my way! Fuck you!" "But I believe in something so fuck YOU!"
All things aside, I can definitely agree with that take.
Agreed.  That is oddly accurate.
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