[Tom Bishop]

Thork answered how the solar eclipses are predicted.

No, he did not. He talked about the prediction of the dates of eclipses. I was talking about the path where the full eclipse would be visible (see this link). This path was calculated with a model of the solar system with a round earth (and round moon, round sun). And the question is: how is it that this RET-based calculation worked?

You failed again at answering my question. (And probably at simply understanding it).

How did Columbus know where the Solar Eclipse would happen in America if only the date can be predicted but not the location?

[Rama Set]

How did Columbus know where the SolarLunar Eclipse would happen in America if only the date can be predicted but not the location?

Considering a lunar eclipse can be viewed from anywhere the moon is visible, then it is not very important where you are.  It is different in the case of a solar eclipse.

[Tom Bishop]

How did Columbus know where the SolarLunar Eclipse would happen in America if only the date can be predicted but not the location?

Considering a lunar eclipse can be viewed from anywhere the moon is visible, then it is not very important where you are.  It is different in the case of a solar eclipse.

Columbus predicted a Solar Eclipse.

[Rama Set]

How did Columbus know where the SolarLunar Eclipse would happen in America if only the date can be predicted but not the location?

Considering a lunar eclipse can be viewed from anywhere the moon is visible, then it is not very important where you are.  It is different in the case of a solar eclipse.

Columbus predicted a Solar Eclipse.

Incorrect.  The whole discussion is from the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1504_lunar_eclipse.

Or check out the link here: http://www.space.com/2729-lunar-eclipse-saved-columbus.html

or here: http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/lunar-eclipse-saved-christopher-columbus/

or here: http://todayinhistory.tumblr.com/post/18488413482/february-29th-1504-christopher-columbus-predicts

or here: http://farmersalmanac.com/astronomy/2009/10/12/how-did-an-almanac-save-christopher-columbus/

Shall I go on?

[Tom Bishop]

I am not interested in those fables. Apologize and don't post any Round Earth rubbish for three months! Also, send Thork and I all of your bitcoins as penance.

[markjo]

I am not interested in those fables.

Which fables are you interested in?  The ones by Rowbotham?

[Rama Set]

I am not interested in those fables. Apologize and don't post any Round Earth rubbish for three months! Also, send Thork and I all of your bitcoins as penance.

I have never seen You kid around before. I guess this is as close as you get to admitting you are wrong. This is worth all the bitcoins Rushy had.

[Sceptom]

I am not interested in those fables. Apologize and don't post any Round Earth rubbish for three months! Also, send Thork and I all of your bitcoins as penance.

At least, Rama Set provided links to show his sources.

Could you please also provide the sources that say Columbus predicted a solar eclipse? (and explain how this prediction is accurate enough to know the exact path where the full eclipse is visible?)

[Thork]

Could you please also provide the sources that say Columbus predicted a solar eclipse? (and explain how this prediction is accurate enough to know the exact path where the full eclipse is visible?)

Super lazy.

Christopher Columbus, in an effort to induce the natives of Jamaica to continue provisioning him and his hungry men, successfully intimidated the natives by correctly predicting a lunar eclipse for February 29, 1504, using the Ephemeris of the German astronomer Regiomontanus.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephemeris

[Sceptom]

Could you please also provide the sources that say Columbus predicted a solar eclipse? (and explain how this prediction is accurate enough to know the exact path where the full eclipse is visible?)

Christopher Columbus, in an effort to induce the natives of Jamaica to continue provisioning him and his hungry men, successfully intimidated the natives by correctly predicting a lunar eclipse for February 29, 1504, using the Ephemeris of the German astronomer Regiomontanus.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephemeris

The linked text reads "lunar eclipse" and my question is about solar eclipse. Now, English is not my first language, but I'm pretty sure those are different...

[Thork]

When you demand an explanation because you can't figure out how to use Google, it'd be nice if you actually read the links provided that answer your questions.

The astronomical position calculated from an ephemeris is given in the spherical polar coordinate system of right ascension and declination. Some of the astronomical phenomena of interest to astronomers are eclipses, apparent retrograde motion/planetary stations, planetary ingresses, sidereal time, positions for the mean and true nodes of the moon, the phases of the Moon, and the positions of minor celestial bodies such as Chiron.

And done the way its always been done in historical Ephemeris
http://eclipse-maps.com/Eclipse-Maps/History/Pages/1851-1860.html

and some more from 1252!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfonsine_tables

[markjo]

When you demand an explanation because you can't figure out how to use Google, it'd be nice if you actually read the links provided that answer your questions.

Perhaps you should read the thread before you chime in.  Tom claimed twice that Columbus predicted a solar eclipse.  Pretty much every reference (including one that you provided) said that it was a lunar eclipse that Columbus actually predicted.  Now please try to keep up, will you?

[Sceptom]

When you demand an explanation because you can't figure out how to use Google, it'd be nice if you actually read the links provided that answer your questions.

The astronomical position calculated from an ephemeris is given in the spherical polar coordinate system of right ascension and declination. Some of the astronomical phenomena of interest to astronomers are eclipses, apparent retrograde motion/planetary stations, planetary ingresses, sidereal time, positions for the mean and true nodes of the moon, the phases of the Moon, and the positions of minor celestial bodies such as Chiron.

And done the way its always been done in historical Ephemeris
http://eclipse-maps.com/Eclipse-Maps/History/Pages/1851-1860.html

and some more from 1252!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfonsine_tables

Thanks for those sources, it's interesting. You just proved that, indeed, eclipses are based on heliocentric and RE models, and that solar eclipses are caused by the moon passing in front of the sun.

But that was not the original question, which keeps getting avoided each time. As a reminder, the question was: how do RET-based calculations for predicting the exact path of the total eclipse (using NASA JPL DE405) actually work (considering RET is allegedly false)?

[Thork]

You just proved that, indeed, eclipses are based on heliocentric and RE models

So the Alfonsine tables that accurately predict solar eclipse paths that were published 300 years before Copernicus delivered his theory on heliocentricity, is proof of heliocentricity despite the fact no one had entertained heliocentricity in the scientific community at that time when the tables were made?

I realise your powers of reasoning are not that great, but even the dimmest on this forum would not have reached the conclusion you did, from the sources I provided.

[markjo]

You just proved that, indeed, eclipses are based on heliocentric and RE models

So the Alfonsine tables that accurately predict solar eclipse paths that were published 300 years before Copernicus delivered his theory on heliocentricity, is proof of heliocentricity despite the fact no one had entertained heliocentricity in the scientific community at that time when the tables were made?

You do realize that the Alfonsine tables are based on RE (Ptolemaic) geocentrism, not FE geocentrism, don't you?  BTW, how many epicycles did it take to calculate those tables?

[Thork]

Ahhh, progress. So agreed that heliocentricity is not a requirement of predicting eclipses. Super.

Now, can you explain the difference between RE (Ptolemaic)  geocentrism and FE geocentrism for us? I don't want to hear that Ptolemy estimated the sun to be 93 million miles away from you either.

Using the same method as Hipparchus to determine the distance to the Sun led Ptolemy to the same serious underestimate in its distance

Underestimate meaning purely a lower number than is estimated by the globular liars of today, of course.

[markjo]

Ahhh, progress. So agreed that heliocentricity is not a requirement of predicting eclipses. Super.

Now, can you explain the difference between RE (Ptolemaic)  geocentrism and FE geocentrism for us? 

Well, biggest difference is that Ptolemy had an RE geocentric model that kinda, sorta worked (depening on how many epicycles you add).  It more or less matched observations and could explain how things like sunsets and eclipses work.

[Thork]

Oh, you mean this?


Do go on. Explain eclipses and sunsets.

[markjo]

Do go on. Explain eclipses and sunsets.

Who cares how eclipses work on an round earth (geocentric or heliocentric)?  This thread is about how FET explains and predicts eclipses.  Please stay on topic.

[Thork]

Do go on. Explain eclipses and sunsets.

Who cares how eclipses work on an round earth (geocentric or heliocentric)?  This thread is about how FET explains and predicts eclipses.  Please stay on topic.

Well I'm assuming you are going to explain how Ptolemy's model works and therefore much of ours. I need only correct you on the bits you get wrong that way. Saves me doing all the leg work when you already know most of it already.