The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Technology & Information => Topic started by: Lord Dave on October 04, 2014, 04:32:25 PM
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Figured I'd see what the minds here know.
So my district has about 150 iPads. To manage them, I have an old macbook with 2gb of ram with os mavericks and is os server.
Now it runs fine with one exception: VPP(volume purchase program) tokens. I hate these things. To explain: apple allows you to assign an app to a user and push that app. The VPP allows you to do that. It also links to a special iTunes account that let's you buy the apps.
We have roughly 7 of these tokens. Why? Because you don't want to mix money from the various departments. Special Ed, for example, has their own budget and thus their own VPP account.
Now the server can only handle 1 token at a time. So if I want to push out apps for specialed, I load the token and push the apps. If I want to push out apps for the HS, I swap the tokens and push. However, swapping tokens also stops all pushes and prevents any future pushing or authorization until I put it back.
To this end, I want to virtualize the servers so I can have 7 servers on one box. We already have a windows server VM farm so it fits in our overall technology plan. However, apple are dicks and refuses to allow virtualization on any non-apple hardware. So... I'm debating what to buy. I can get a Mac mini with 16GB of ram and hope that'll work (2gb for each server which is minimum) at $1,500 or the Mac pro with 32 gb of ram (upgradable to 64) for $3,500. I'd like to go cheap as most of the servers won't be doing much most of the time but each server requires a minimum of 2gb and the Mac mini maxes out at 16.
Also: Mac pro is a god damn canister. Mounting it is not really an option. But the mini is a box.
Thoughts? The pro is definitely the server choice as its hardware is the upgrade for the old apple xserver. But the mini may do what I need for many years. I just don't have enough Mac hardware experience to know which is the best option.
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Have you considered Windows?
I can't help you
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Are you really expecting this group of people to provide serious answers to this question?
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Are you really expecting this group of people to provide serious answers to this question?
Well, Thork at least may know.
And even if not, it'll be fun to see the responses. So don't disappoint.
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http://www.hackintosh.com/
Build a cheap ass computer but buy lots of RAM. 16GB that isn't made for gaming/overclocking should only cost about $100. Here is a list of hardware that is actually compatible with OSX: http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
OSX isn't a bad OS, I just never liked the fact that Apple tries to wall people in on shitty, expensive hardware.
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Thanks rushy.
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What you need is some MacGyver advice.
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What you need is some MacGyver advice.
My signature might be useful here.
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I agree.
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I hate mac minis, but that is the answer. We use those little bastards for everything. We hide them in walls at trade shows, make them do the thinking when an iPad is left wanting, run websites from them, make them serve our wiki, make them run video collages with 12 screens or so and give them to developers who plead too poor to get their own equipment.
Forget the mac pro. Its not for that. Put it this way, if you pick a mac mini you picked the obvious choice and no one can say shit to you.
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I hate mac minis, but that is the answer. We use those little bastards for everything. We hide them in walls at trade shows, make them do the thinking when an iPad is left wanting, run websites from them, make them serve our wiki, make them run video collages with 12 screens or so and give them to developers who plead too poor to get their own equipment.
Forget the mac pro. Its not for that. Put it this way, if you pick a mac mini you picked the obvious choice and no one can say shit to you.
If you need little mac servers en masse, this makes sense, but considering he only needs one with a bunch of VMs running on it, a hackintosh is the more economical option.
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hackintosh
Did you even read the OP? He is looking to get this on behalf of his work. You don't go stealing software for your company or breaking license agreements. You just spend the $600 and get on with it.
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Did you even read the OP? He is looking to get this on behalf of his work.
So? If Apple sues a school for circumventing their walled garden hardware then all it will do is make Apple look like a bunch of asshats and be terrible PR.
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I doubt Apple would ever find out. But Dave isn't going to look very professional when his solution is something illegal, is he?
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I doubt Apple would ever find out. But Dave isn't going to look very professional when his solution is something illegal, is it?
Software licenses don't define what is and isn't legal. It's Apple, not the US government. No one gives a shit what Apple thinks.
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Should Dave just copy and paste that straight into his business case?
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Should Dave just copy and paste that straight into his business case?
Is this the best response you could come up with?
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You know your solution is retarted. Why would I put any more effort in than I have?
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You know your solution is retarded. Why would I put any more effort in than I have?
Dave is now well on his way to saving a school $1000 on their budget. What are you doing with your life?
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A mac mini is about $600. You are looking to save him $200 at best, whilst sounding like a total gonk when he utters the word 'hackintosh'.
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A mac mini is about $600. You are looking to save him $200 at best, whilst sounding like a total gonk when he utters the word 'hackintosh'.
He quoted it at $1500, so he is probably using some sort of government service that marks up all the shit they sell. I had to order sticky notes from a government supply service once (for my job) and they were $40 for a six-pack.
So yeah, I'm saving him about $1000. So, like I asked before, what are you doing with your life? Nothing. Nothing at all.
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You are a gonk. >:(
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A mac mini is about $600. You are looking to save him $200 at best, whilst sounding like a total gonk when he utters the word 'hackintosh'.
He quoted it at $1500, so he is probably using some sort of government service that marks up all the shit they sell.
Actually, $1500 is probably about right for a MacMini server with 16 GB ram.
So yeah, I'm saving him about $1000. So, like I asked before, what are you doing with your life? Nothing. Nothing at all.
I would think that Dave's school district would appreciate a tech solution that includes the option for real tech support.
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Virtualisation sounds like completely the wrong solution to the problem of a software limitation like this. Even if the software isn't fixable (which would be the right solution), why can't you just run 7 instances of the server process?
Also, I don't know exactly which features of Mac server you use, but you could try Linux with Netatalk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netatalk).
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Now it runs fine with one exception: VPP(volume purchase program) tokens. I hate these things. To explain: apple allows you to assign an app to a user and push that app. The VPP allows you to do that. It also links to a special iTunes account that let's you buy the apps.
We have roughly 7 of these tokens.
If it's just an iTunes account, won't the Windows version of iTunes handle the tokens just as well as the Mac version?
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Virtualisation sounds like completely the wrong solution to the problem of a software limitation like this. Even if the software isn't fixable (which would be the right solution), why can't you just run 7 instances of the server process?
Also, I don't know exactly which features of Mac server you use, but you could try Linux with Netatalk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netatalk).
As far as I know, you can't.
Let me back up and give a bit of info on what we do and how it works.
We use 3 main components of the server(sort of): A virtual MDM(Mobile Device Manager), Profile Manager, and Cache.
When we buy apple products, like ipads, I access the virtual MDM server which is housed in the apple cloud. On that virtual MDM I then assign those ipads to a real MDM (my server). When an ipad is activated, it contacts apple, get's the IP address and name of the server it's assigned to, and then contacts that server to download the configuration (which I made mandatory). The benefit is that if the ipad is ever stolen, I still retain full control over it so long as it's got a wifi connection to the internet and if it's wiped, it can't be reactivated without downloading the config file from the server, which I can set to autolock the ipad. So basically, it'll make a wiped ipad useless.
The second part, Cache is your run of the mill caching service for ios software. ipad wants an app, the server downloads that app and stores it for any other iOS device that wants it.
The Profile Manager is the main workhorse service. In there we have the device deployment and the Volume Purchase Program. The device deployment is the MDM service and it requires a special security token using a public/private key setup. You get a public key, give it to apple, and they give you a private key back which you then install as your token. The VPP operates in a similar way except you log into the VPP program account (whichever account you're using at the time) and download the security token from apple then install it onto the server.
Profile manager also runs the web based profile manager interface which is where you configure settings, assign devices, etc...
So I get the ipads setup, push configurations, and assign them to users.
To push an app, I first have to buy it. So I log into the vpp apple page with the same account my server's token is set to, buy an app (even free ones) and wait. After apple approves the purchase (usually within a minute) I then wait until apple pushes the purchase data to my sever. The apps then show up on my profile manager and I assign them to users.
The app is then pushed to the ipad via itunes. It assigns the app to whatever itunes account is on the ipad and pushes it either from the cloud or my server. And because it's user based, one user can have 100 devices and only use one purchased copy of the app. (though we do make sure we buy enough for each device anyway) It also means that any itunes account that the app get's pushed to can actually install that app.
See, apple's idea is that every single idevice should have a unique itunes account, with the exception of home use and lab type setups.
So the device pushes it and everyone's happy.
Until I need to swap tokens. Once I do that, a couple things happen.
1. The app won't get updates.
2. The app may be removed after a month.
3. I can't push any more apps to the device until I change the token back.
4. AND, it doesn't keep track of who has what app so I have to reassign all the apps all over again.
And the security key is for each server, as I understand it. So if I were to have 7 instances of apple server on it, there would be 7 keys running and every single idevice would get confused as to what key they're using. And there isn't a way to say "keep checking keys until you get the right one." It's a one key to one server(not instance) type of setup.
Hence why I need multiple servers.
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You get a public key, give it to apple, and they give you a private key back
How has Apple managed to fuck up PKI that badly?
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You get a public key, give it to apple, and they give you a private key back
How has Apple managed to fuck up PKI that badly?
How else can an iOS device to know that a server its talking to is the one apple said it is?
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How else can an iOS device to know that a server its talking to is the one apple said it is?
The same way literally every other PKI in the world achieves similar goals, by having Apple sign your public key with their private key. Your private key should remain, well, private.
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You get a public key, give it to apple, and they give you a private key back
How has Apple managed to fuck up PKI that badly?
How else can an iOS device to know that a server its talking to is the one apple said it is?
by tracking it's IP.
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by tracking it's IP.
This is the second worst way you could think of to check the validity of a server, the first way being: "are you a fake server?" ... "no"
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How else can an iOS device to know that a server its talking to is the one apple said it is?
The same way literally every other PKI in the world achieves similar goals, by having Apple sign your public key with their private key. Your private key should remain, well, private.
*shrug* maybe that is how they do it but they call it a token. I dunno. All I know is that its a pain in the ass.
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Update:
I got a hackintosh VM to run. Yay me.
The bad news? Apple is a god damn, mother fucking greedy fuckface of a company.
For those who don't know, Apple likes to update things. They also like to not allow you to download previous versions. So when Yosemite came out not only could I NOT download a new copy of server.app (which I need for the hackintosh) but I have to PAY for version 4.0!
WTF apple! You don't let me redownload the app I bought AND you force me to buy a new one?
Oh and copying over server.app doesn't work well. postgres ends up not working thus the things I NEED the server to do, do not work. (file permission error crap)
So yeah, Apple is evil.
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Postgres is one of the easiest things in the world to make work. Just treat it like an isolated component, fix it, and then see if things work.
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Postgres is one of the easiest things in the world to make work. Just treat it like an isolated component, fix it, and then see if things work.
Oh getting Postgres to work is easy. Getting the imbeded, built in, and configured for another server postgres INSIDE server.app to work with the server.app setup... not so much.
Basically the server setup scripts attempt to create a database named something I can't find using an account I have no idea about all internally and if it doesn't have the right permissions (whatever they are) it fails.
It probably wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to basically move an already configured copy of server.app into a different server. And the permissions are all fucked up too. On the original server, the server.app is completely "read&write only by system" but the copy has my admin account as the read&write person. and I'm not sure how to propagate a system account as the only read&write permission.
And honestly: I'm not a linux or unix expert. And the apple community (or the hackintosh community) is not helpful since no one in their right mind would have to ask "how do you reconfigure server.app to use an external postgres install".
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Update:
I got a hackintosh VM to run. Yay me.
The bad news? Apple is a god damn, mother fucking greedy fuckface of a company.
For those who don't know, Apple likes to update things. They also like to not allow you to download previous versions. So when Yosemite came out not only could I NOT download a new copy of server.app (which I need for the hackintosh) but I have to PAY for version 4.0!
WTF apple! You don't let me redownload the app I bought AND you force me to buy a new one?
Oh and copying over server.app doesn't work well. postgres ends up not working thus the things I NEED the server to do, do not work. (file permission error crap)
So yeah, Apple is evil.
Cost (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-8.1/productID.288401200) of Windows 8.1.
Cost (https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=915041082&mt=12&ls=1) of OS X Yosemite.
Microsoft is a bit more evil.
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Update:
I got a hackintosh VM to run. Yay me.
The bad news? Apple is a god damn, mother fucking greedy fuckface of a company.
For those who don't know, Apple likes to update things. They also like to not allow you to download previous versions. So when Yosemite came out not only could I NOT download a new copy of server.app (which I need for the hackintosh) but I have to PAY for version 4.0!
WTF apple! You don't let me redownload the app I bought AND you force me to buy a new one?
Oh and copying over server.app doesn't work well. postgres ends up not working thus the things I NEED the server to do, do not work. (file permission error crap)
So yeah, Apple is evil.
Cost (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-8.1/productID.288401200) of Windows 8.1.
Cost (https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=915041082&mt=12&ls=1) of OS X Yosemite.
Microsoft is a bit more evil.
Windows works on most hardware.
OS X Yosemite works on a very limited range of hardware.
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Cost (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-8.1/productID.288401200) of Windows 8.1.
Cost (https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=915041082&mt=12&ls=1) of OS X Yosemite.
Microsoft is a bit more evil.
If you take a mac and subtract the actual cost of the hardware (retail value is fine) then you end up paying around $800 for OS X every time. I'm not sure what you're getting at, here. I can build a $400 Windows 8.1 computer. I can't build an OS X computer at all.
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To be fair:
Upgrade from Snow Leopard to Mavericks was free as was Mavericks to Yosemite.