[QED]

I have always wondered what the powerful organizations have as a motivation for the conspiracy. What is to be gained in tricking people about the Earth's shape? Is it money? How? NASA could sent folks into space (or pretend to...if that is your belief) no matter what shape the Earth takes. What does the conspiracy gain by lying about the Earth's shape?

[Bad Puppy]

It's not just that a powerful organization lied.  It's about the world as you knew it being a lie.  If you don't think that would fundamentally change your life, than I'd say you're lucky.  Perhaps that's why real flat earth believers (not just the trolls on the forums) are so quick to dismiss any evidence of a round planet.

Pick anything you strongly believe in and replace flat earth belief with that.  Imagine a devout christian, he spends his whole life in the service of God and the bible only to find that it was in fact written by the devil for some nefarious purpose.  I think his life would fundamentally change.

Although, I'm sure flat earth believers are happy to be living in our round world as our conspirators have given them efficient flight around the world, GPS, Star Trek, pi that doesn't equal "something closer to 4", a known distance from New York to Paris (3161 nautical miles), and most conveniently a map of the earth (something that doesn't exist on a flat earth).

[QED]

It's not just that a powerful organization lied.  It's about the world as you knew it being a lie.  If you don't think that would fundamentally change your life, than I'd say you're lucky.  Perhaps that's why real flat earth believers (not just the trolls on the forums) are so quick to dismiss any evidence of a round planet.

Pick anything you strongly believe in and replace flat earth belief with that.  Imagine a devout christian, he spends his whole life in the service of God and the bible only to find that it was in fact written by the devil for some nefarious purpose.  I think his life would fundamentally change.

Although, I'm sure flat earth believers are happy to be living in our round world as our conspirators have given them efficient flight around the world, GPS, Star Trek, pi that doesn't equal "something closer to 4", a known distance from New York to Paris (3161 nautical miles), and most conveniently a map of the earth (something that doesn't exist on a flat earth).

Thank you very much for this feedback. So if I am hearing you correctly (and please do correct me if wrong), then the issue is that your reality as you know it is a lie, fed to you by liars. Is this right?

I think I can see how that would result in you not caring so much about the motivation behind the lie, but rather the fact that you are being lied to in the first place. Jez, I would be pissed if I thought that was happening. So I am sorry that you are in that situation.

If I may ask a follow up question: what initially led you to think your reality was a lie?

I hope I am not overstepping or making you feel uncomfortable. If so, then I apologize a million times. I truly find this conversation helpful.

[Bad Puppy]

It's not just that a powerful organization lied.  It's about the world as you knew it being a lie.  If you don't think that would fundamentally change your life, than I'd say you're lucky.  Perhaps that's why real flat earth believers (not just the trolls on the forums) are so quick to dismiss any evidence of a round planet.

Pick anything you strongly believe in and replace flat earth belief with that.  Imagine a devout christian, he spends his whole life in the service of God and the bible only to find that it was in fact written by the devil for some nefarious purpose.  I think his life would fundamentally change.

Although, I'm sure flat earth believers are happy to be living in our round world as our conspirators have given them efficient flight around the world, GPS, Star Trek, pi that doesn't equal "something closer to 4", a known distance from New York to Paris (3161 nautical miles), and most conveniently a map of the earth (something that doesn't exist on a flat earth).

Thank you very much for this feedback. So if I am hearing you correctly (and please do correct me if wrong), then the issue is that your reality as you know it is a lie, fed to you by liars. Is this right?

I think I can see how that would result in you not caring so much about the motivation behind the lie, but rather the fact that you are being lied to in the first place. Jez, I would be pissed if I thought that was happening. So I am sorry that you are in that situation.

If I may ask a follow up question: what initially led you to think your reality was a lie?

I hope I am not overstepping or making you feel uncomfortable. If so, then I apologize a million times. I truly find this conversation helpful.

You may have misunderstood me.  I forgot to quote curious26 when they said "I don't think my life would change dramatically if I knew the powerful organizations lied, would yours?"

Personally, I don't believe I'm being lied to.  Nor do I believe the world is flat.  Though, I could only imagine the world that flat earthers must believe they're in.  I can't understand what the motivation behind the conspiracy would really be?  A round earth has been around for over 500 years.

The space travel conspiracy also seems like complete BS.  NASA isn't the only space agency in the world, so where's Russia in the conspiracy?  Where's China?

No apologies necessary, QED.

[Pete Svarrior]

QED, stop derailing threads. Splitting Conspiracy discussion into a separate subject.

[QED]

QED, stop derailing threads. Splitting Conspiracy discussion into a separate subject.

Thank you for the warning, this is helpful to me. So, would it be appropriate to begin a new thread for my follow up question, or should I just PM him about it?

Thanks in advance for your help and guidance!

[Bad Puppy]

I didn't think the thread needed to be split.  A simple "don't derail the thread...let's get back on point" would have probably sufficed.  Do you split every thread that wavers slightly off topic just once?

For those reading wondering, the thread started here:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=10479.0

[Rushy]

No one in the government is actively lying about the Earth's shape (as far as we know). They genuinely believe it to be round. The lie is the act of having advanced space travel capabilities. Back in the late 1940s, the 50s and the 60s, governments were just beginning to understand the properties of mass propaganda and how it can shape the reality of their people.

The USSR always existed on the fundamental idea that they were working towards some glorious, super-industrial future that never came to fruition. What better motivation than to tell their people and their enemies, that they have sent man-made objects into space? Amazing, finally their glorious technological future will come to pass! Except it didn't. They never sent anything into space. They lied to their own people. However, the West couldn't just sit idly by because their own people believed the lie too. "Look at the USSR!" they said, "they're so advanced!" The West couldn't allow such a thought to start purveying their own populace. Something had to be done.

The West couldn't simply say the USSR is lying. The USSR would continue to lie and people would start to ask "well why aren't we sending things to space?" Therefore it was decided that the West would lie as well. "Look, we've sent stuff too!" Then it became a big game of who can con their own people into the biggest lie. It became a game of "let's get Kubrick to televise our lies on national television". The USSR couldn't compete with Hollywood. They lost the lying game.

The Earth not being round is just a part of the big lie, it's not even an intentional lie. If the US thought the Earth was flat when it faked the moon landing, the Earth would appear flat in the movie. It's just an artistic backdrop picture. Space travel still is, and will continue to be, a silly lie, which is why NASA will fade into irrelevance, why SpaceX only exists because of government contracts, and why every company who ever uttered the phrase "space tourism" is doomed to failure. Eventually the government, and schools, will tell us all that there's nothing interesting in space, don't bother thinking about it, and they'll hope faking the moon landing is no big deal when it's declassified in a century or so.

[QED]

No one in the government is actively lying about the Earth's shape (as far as we know). They genuinely believe it to be round. The lie is the act of having advanced space travel capabilities. Back in the late 1940s, the 50s and the 60s, governments were just beginning to understand the properties of mass propaganda and how it can shape the reality of their people.

The USSR always existed on the fundamental idea that they were working towards some glorious, super-industrial future that never came to fruition. What better motivation than to tell their people and their enemies, that they have sent man-made objects into space? Amazing, finally their glorious technological future will come to pass! Except it didn't. They never sent anything into space. They lied to their own people. However, the West couldn't just sit idly by because their own people believed the lie too. "Look at the USSR!" they said, "they're so advanced!" The West couldn't allow such a thought to start purveying their own populace. Something had to be done.

The West couldn't simply say the USSR is lying. The USSR would continue to lie and people would start to ask "well why aren't we sending things to space?" Therefore it was decided that the West would lie as well. "Look, we've sent stuff too!" Then it became a big game of who can con their own people into the biggest lie. It became a game of "let's get Kubrick to televise our lies on national television". The USSR couldn't compete with Hollywood. They lost the lying game.

The Earth not being round is just a part of the big lie, it's not even an intentional lie. If the US thought the Earth was flat when it faked the moon landing, the Earth would appear flat in the movie. It's just an artistic backdrop picture. Space travel still is, and will continue to be, a silly lie, which is why NASA will fade into irrelevance, why SpaceX only exists because of government contracts, and why every company who ever uttered the phrase "space tourism" is doomed to failure. Eventually the government, and schools, will tell us all that there's nothing interesting in space, don't bother thinking about it, and they'll hope faking the moon landing is no big deal when it's declassified in a century or so.

Thank you for the detailed response! So, if we had a telescope of sufficient magnification, and pointed that telescope at the Moon, would you change your mind if you could see with our own eyes the equipment on the surface of the Moon left by astronauts?

[timterroo]

No one in the government is actively lying about the Earth's shape (as far as we know). They genuinely believe it to be round. The lie is the act of having advanced space travel capabilities. Back in the late 1940s, the 50s and the 60s, governments were just beginning to understand the properties of mass propaganda and how it can shape the reality of their people.

The USSR always existed on the fundamental idea that they were working towards some glorious, super-industrial future that never came to fruition. What better motivation than to tell their people and their enemies, that they have sent man-made objects into space? Amazing, finally their glorious technological future will come to pass! Except it didn't. They never sent anything into space. They lied to their own people. However, the West couldn't just sit idly by because their own people believed the lie too. "Look at the USSR!" they said, "they're so advanced!" The West couldn't allow such a thought to start purveying their own populace. Something had to be done.

The West couldn't simply say the USSR is lying. The USSR would continue to lie and people would start to ask "well why aren't we sending things to space?" Therefore it was decided that the West would lie as well. "Look, we've sent stuff too!" Then it became a big game of who can con their own people into the biggest lie. It became a game of "let's get Kubrick to televise our lies on national television". The USSR couldn't compete with Hollywood. They lost the lying game.

The Earth not being round is just a part of the big lie, it's not even an intentional lie. If the US thought the Earth was flat when it faked the moon landing, the Earth would appear flat in the movie. It's just an artistic backdrop picture. Space travel still is, and will continue to be, a silly lie, which is why NASA will fade into irrelevance, why SpaceX only exists because of government contracts, and why every company who ever uttered the phrase "space tourism" is doomed to failure. Eventually the government, and schools, will tell us all that there's nothing interesting in space, don't bother thinking about it, and they'll hope faking the moon landing is no big deal when it's declassified in a century or so.

I can completely understand why nations would lie about going to space, and to be honest, I am not sold on our supposed trip to the moon. I don't, however, understand why all of this is grounds to believe the earth is flat. There is evidence that the moon landing was faked, although, it could be debated on what they consider "evidence" is not actually a lack of understanding of physics and mechanics in space, however there is no evidence the earth is flat. This conspiracy is only used as an argument to invalidate the images seen from space of a globe earth.

It doesn't invalidate images taken from satellites, though. Even a FET can entertain the notion of satellites, so why wouldn't they be able to capture pictures of earth from high enough elevation to see whether or not there is a curve? In fact, most of the images we see that contain the entire globe were not taken as a single photograph, but rather as several (possibly hundreds) of photos taken by high-flying satellites and parsed together (much like google maps). This is why there is a discrepancy in the apparent sizes of continents from one Earth 'photo' to the next, and why some photos have repeating cloud patterns.

[QED]

No one in the government is actively lying about the Earth's shape (as far as we know). They genuinely believe it to be round. The lie is the act of having advanced space travel capabilities. Back in the late 1940s, the 50s and the 60s, governments were just beginning to understand the properties of mass propaganda and how it can shape the reality of their people.

The USSR always existed on the fundamental idea that they were working towards some glorious, super-industrial future that never came to fruition. What better motivation than to tell their people and their enemies, that they have sent man-made objects into space? Amazing, finally their glorious technological future will come to pass! Except it didn't. They never sent anything into space. They lied to their own people. However, the West couldn't just sit idly by because their own people believed the lie too. "Look at the USSR!" they said, "they're so advanced!" The West couldn't allow such a thought to start purveying their own populace. Something had to be done.

The West couldn't simply say the USSR is lying. The USSR would continue to lie and people would start to ask "well why aren't we sending things to space?" Therefore it was decided that the West would lie as well. "Look, we've sent stuff too!" Then it became a big game of who can con their own people into the biggest lie. It became a game of "let's get Kubrick to televise our lies on national television". The USSR couldn't compete with Hollywood. They lost the lying game.

The Earth not being round is just a part of the big lie, it's not even an intentional lie. If the US thought the Earth was flat when it faked the moon landing, the Earth would appear flat in the movie. It's just an artistic backdrop picture. Space travel still is, and will continue to be, a silly lie, which is why NASA will fade into irrelevance, why SpaceX only exists because of government contracts, and why every company who ever uttered the phrase "space tourism" is doomed to failure. Eventually the government, and schools, will tell us all that there's nothing interesting in space, don't bother thinking about it, and they'll hope faking the moon landing is no big deal when it's declassified in a century or so.

I can completely understand why nations would lie about going to space, and to be honest, I am not sold on our supposed trip to the moon. I don't, however, understand why all of this is grounds to believe the earth is flat. There is evidence that the moon landing was faked, although, it could be debated on what they consider "evidence" is not actually a lack of understanding of physics and mechanics in space, however there is no evidence the earth is flat. This conspiracy is only used as an argument to invalidate the images seen from space of a globe earth.

It doesn't invalidate images taken from satellites, though. Even a FET can entertain the notion of satellites, so why wouldn't they be able to capture pictures of earth from high enough elevation to see whether or not there is a curve? In fact, most of the images we see that contain the entire globe were not taken as a single photograph, but rather as several (possibly hundreds) of photos taken by high-flying satellites and parsed together (much like google maps). This is why there is a discrepancy in the apparent sizes of continents from one Earth 'photo' to the next, and why some photos have repeating cloud patterns.

I dunno..maybe. I try to get into this whole faked moon thing, but every video I find about it uses these weird arguments about shadows and stuff. It's like they never went into their backyard and played around with shadows to see how they work. Every moon landing video I have ever seen adheres to basic optics that I learned in undergrad.

You'd think that if there was a problem, then physicists would have discovered it right away and blown the whistle.

[TomInAustin]

I have always wondered what the powerful organizations have as a motivation for the conspiracy. What is to be gained in tricking people about the Earth's shape? Is it money? How? NASA could sent folks into space (or pretend to...if that is your belief) no matter what shape the Earth takes. What does the conspiracy gain by lying about the Earth's shape?

Very good point.  There are many conspiracy theories around NASA and the moon.  We didn't go(RE), we went but aliens told us not to come back, we didn't go because of FE makes it not possible.

The FE thing that makes the least sense to me is that the USA responded to the USSR with our own lies.  We would have been way more likely to just humiliate them by exposing the truth.  We took great joy in exposing their propaganda.

[Tumeni]

What better motivation than to tell their people and their enemies, that they have sent man-made objects into space? Amazing, finally their glorious technological future will come to pass! Except it didn't. They never sent anything into space. They lied to their own people. However, the West couldn't just sit idly by because their own people believed the lie too.

The West WATCHED Sputnik, with telescopes and binoculars, and monitored its radio transmission. There's ample evidence that the general public, and governmental organisations, did not simply "believe" the Russians.


"Look at the USSR!" they said, "they're so advanced!" The West couldn't allow such a thought to start purveying their own populace. Something had to be done. The West couldn't simply say the USSR is lying.

Why would they, when they had watched/tracked/listened to Sputnik for themselves?

[QED]

I can view the ISS using my telescope. Now mind you, I don't have some incredible telescope or anything. But it is not bad. For anyone interested:

https://www.amazon.com/Celestron-NexStar-6-SE-Telescope/dp/B000GUKTDM/ref=lp_281063_1_6?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1534780118&sr=1-6

You can see the ISS quite clearly with this one. Many details stand out. It is really up there!

[Bad Puppy]

No one in the government is actively lying about the Earth's shape (as far as we know). They genuinely believe it to be round. The lie is the act of having advanced space travel capabilities. Back in the late 1940s, the 50s and the 60s, governments were just beginning to understand the properties of mass propaganda and how it can shape the reality of their people.

The USSR always existed on the fundamental idea that they were working towards some glorious, super-industrial future that never came to fruition. What better motivation than to tell their people and their enemies, that they have sent man-made objects into space? Amazing, finally their glorious technological future will come to pass! Except it didn't. They never sent anything into space. They lied to their own people. However, the West couldn't just sit idly by because their own people believed the lie too. "Look at the USSR!" they said, "they're so advanced!" The West couldn't allow such a thought to start purveying their own populace. Something had to be done.

The West couldn't simply say the USSR is lying. The USSR would continue to lie and people would start to ask "well why aren't we sending things to space?" Therefore it was decided that the West would lie as well. "Look, we've sent stuff too!" Then it became a big game of who can con their own people into the biggest lie. It became a game of "let's get Kubrick to televise our lies on national television". The USSR couldn't compete with Hollywood. They lost the lying game.

The Earth not being round is just a part of the big lie, it's not even an intentional lie. If the US thought the Earth was flat when it faked the moon landing, the Earth would appear flat in the movie. It's just an artistic backdrop picture. Space travel still is, and will continue to be, a silly lie, which is why NASA will fade into irrelevance, why SpaceX only exists because of government contracts, and why every company who ever uttered the phrase "space tourism" is doomed to failure. Eventually the government, and schools, will tell us all that there's nothing interesting in space, don't bother thinking about it, and they'll hope faking the moon landing is no big deal when it's declassified in a century or so.

You'd think that if countries are lying to each other about who made it to space, the other could call them out on it.  Why would NASA acknowledge the existence of Russian spacecraft if this were the case?  Better to say Russia failed but America will succeed.  Who controls space controls the world....so is the ISS fake?  Was Mir fake?

If Russia launched a fake space station in 1986, why did it take 12 years for America to launch their fake space station?  For the purpose of the conspiracy it makes absolutely no sense.  Was this Russian collusion version 1.0?  How far back does Russian collusion with USA go back?

The ISS can be seen through a telescope.  What sorcery is used to fake what is seen through telescopes?

Another scenario is that space travel is real.  Mir was real, the ISS is real (and observable), and we live in a world where knowledge is real (in most places).  Technology has advanced to a point where we have been able to send spacecraft beyond this rock.  Quite silly, really.

[MCToon]

No one in the government is actively lying about the Earth's shape (as far as we know). They genuinely believe it to be round. The lie is the act of having advanced space travel capabilities. Back in the late 1940s, the 50s and the 60s, governments were just beginning to understand the properties of mass propaganda and how it can shape the reality of their people.

If there is no space travel, thus no satellites, what is everyone pointing their TV dishes at?  I have personally aimed a TV dish.  When it's slightly at the wrong angle: no signal, adjust it correctly: signal works.  Leave it at that angle for years and continue to watch TV.  It is getting a signal from that dish.  What is sending the signal?  I've seen claims of balloons being continuously launched in secret to provide the service, there must be something to provide this service.

If there's some sort of non-orbiting device transmitting the signal someone has to put it in place.  The rocket launches must be faked to satiate the masses, then at some time the fake, non-orbiting device is put in place.  The question is who does the faking?

Let's take, for example, the Bangabandhu-1 satellite apparently launched by SpaceX on May 11, 2018.  As claimed, the government believes the earth is round: "They genuinely believe it to be round".  Who actually knows the satellite wont be achieving orbit?  SpaceX must know, they built the rocket and have many people involved in creating and running the systems that control the rocket.  They also must have several CGI artists involved in providing the faked video.  Does the government of Bangladesh know it's fake?  They must not because "They genuinely believe it to be round".  They commissioned a satellite to be built, paid millions of dollars to have it built and launched, build all the command and control structure to interact with the satellite.  Once the satellite has been fake put into orbit, a fake non-orbiting replacement must be put into place somehow.  This has to be in the correct position as Bangladesh will point their large satellite dishes to the expected location of the satellite and start communicating with it.  So, is SpaceX putting this non-orbiting device into place?  Did SpaceX reverse engineer the functionality of the satellite?  Will SpaceX be maintaining this non-orbiting replacement for the lifespan of the satellite.  All this for whatever price Bangladesh paid SpaceX for the launch of their satellite.

All sorts of stuff can be described away until the citizens of Bangladesh get their own dishes and point them up at the sky and start watching TV.

Please, I'm curious what people think is really happening here.  Is this what people envision for faked rocket launches?  Am I way off?  What are you really thinking is happening with the Bangabandhu-1 satellite?

[flat_earth_fanatic]

I am brand new to the flat earth society but i have always believed there was something fishy about the earth being round. it just didn’t make sense. my school teachers ridiculed me for not believing in “science”. i hope my journey here on this site will be a supportive community as we fight for the truth to come out.

[Bad Puppy]

I am brand new to the flat earth society but i have always believed there was something fishy about the earth being round. it just didn’t make sense. my school teachers ridiculed me for not believing in “science”. i hope my journey here on this site will be a supportive community as we fight for the truth to come out.

My previous reply was deleted, so I'll reword it.  I'd love to hear your thoughts on the conspiracy to fake space travel.