1

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Size of the Sun

« on: May 19, 2022, 06:23:34 AM »

Not sure what you point is, Tom, but at 1.4 to 50 ppb the Moon is "made of Helium-3" like the surface of Earth is made of gold. 

2

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon landing hoax question

« on: May 04, 2022, 07:27:41 AM »

By the late 1960s, the Soviet Union was promoting the benefits of Marxist-Leninist society in technology, sport and culture in its own territory, and in the promotion of satellite states (no pun intended) across Europe, Asia and the Americas.  The whole world marvelled at the sound of Sputnik's ping, applauded it Bolshoi, and cheered its superhuman athletes.  Is it even conceivable that they had no aspiration to put Soviet feet-on-the-ground on the biggest object in the night sky? 

"In your face, capitalist pigs!"

3

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon landing hoax question

« on: May 03, 2022, 08:05:43 AM »

As a wise Captain will one day say: 

Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship (enter name of starship). Its (enter planned duration) mission: to explore strange new worlds. To seek out new life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before!

Still don't get it?  Space is just the frontier, its a vacuum, its nothing. The finish line is the new worlds, lives and civilizations.  And we aren't there yet. 

And life must be a riot in the Bishop-household btw;

"Dad, Dad, can we go to Disneyland"?

"No need kids, we'll just send a robot". 

4

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS Photo From The Ground

« on: April 22, 2022, 09:04:17 PM »

So, surprise, surprise; we're back to the "faked photo" response. 

Any comment on Pongo's dirisible dirigible, Pete?

5

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS Photo From The Ground

« on: April 22, 2022, 01:53:10 PM »

No, I wouldn't. 

What ""user error"? Not having the right equipment?  Eyes not working? 

Every time I've looked for it; its been there.  Like the Sun.  Every time.  Anywhere in the world. 

You really need to give this more effort. Cloudy nights?  Like its cloudy everywhere at the same time?  I've even seen it from an airliner. 

6

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS Photo From The Ground

« on: April 21, 2022, 09:25:20 PM »

And can we have a little more clarity on the dirigible?  Further to the questions from other posters;

If its an ISS-shaped dirigible, it must have buoyancy.  How? 
Does it have sufficient volume to displace its own mass in atmosphere? 
Is it in the atmosphere?
Is it self propelled? 

7

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS Photo From The Ground

« on: April 21, 2022, 09:14:11 PM »

Wrong ; it would have to "move nearly as fast".  It should be fairly obvious that, regardless of altitude, it completes an orbit every 90 minutes or so, that's equivalent to the length of the equator. 

Currently (22.00 UTC 21 April) over the southern ocean due south of Africa, in the next 90 minutes it will cross east of Madagascar, Myanmar, China, Kamchatka, the Aleutians, off the entire west coast of the Americas, cross Chile, Argentina and the South Atlantic to pass, again, off the southern tip of Africa. 

So tell us how much slower it is travelling. 

8

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS Photo From The Ground

« on: April 19, 2022, 07:56:42 AM »

Whilst you may think " . . . further(ing) flat-earth theory . . ." is facetious, its actually the only reason most roundies come on here.  The only way to prove a theory is to disprove the alternatives, so we explore all avenues of flat-research until it disappears up its own monopole. 

Or not, of course. 

What's more likely? The super powers of the world put down their weapons, all collaborated together to magically - perpetuate a round-Earth myth?

It's honestly silly that we are still talking about this in 2022.

9

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Sydney to Santiago Flight path

« on: April 11, 2022, 08:06:45 PM »

In 2019 170,000 thousand people visited the Cook Islands which has a permanent population of just 17,000. It's already just a large air travel and hospitality and tourism industry. They clearly have infrastructure. 17,000 also doesn't include the people who travel seasonally or temporarily for work.

Resources come from other islands and international commercial development. They aren't alone. The concept of transportation and travel exists.

May as well claim that a small town in the middle of the US is so small and primitive that it couldnt possibly be a hub for vehicle fuel and overnight stays. 

From your own source, Tom; 

"Rarotonga International Airport is capable of handling aircraft up to Boeing B789’s and B747’s. The Terminal has two gates that can accommodate two international aircraft at a time. The apron can be congested at times but apron can accommodate up to 3 internationals provided two aircraft are of medium category and the other a heavy category aircraft. Because the Terminal is small, there can be congestion at the check-in area if there are 3 international airlines checking in at the same time and at screening".

Hmmm. 

Probably needs a little investment in the infrastructure to be a DXB challenger, doesn't it?  Shame it can't find the zillions of petro-dollars that the middle-east could lay its hands on.  And cheap aviation fuel would also help, like Dubai has it oozing up through the sand.  And then, of course, there's the real estate; lovely map, and it does indeed have a good runway, but there isn't really much more than that is there.  Where is it going to expand into?  Demolish that town, raze the forest, drain the swamp, flatten the mountain or landfill the lagoon?   

Plus, the Santiago-Auckland service doesn't actually need to stop there, does it? 

Really, the only thing in its favour is the marketing - "Don't just book it; Cook it!"

10

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Bipolar Model- An Investigation.

« on: March 26, 2022, 09:13:50 PM »

Now we're getting somewhere. 

Your "Google Maps excerpt" isn't a flight plan; it's an illustration to dramatise the concept of a flight between Dubai and San Francisco.  Is that where you've been going wrong all along?  Do you also believe that the London Underground trains travel in straight lines and take 30 degree corners, like the map?  Unbelievable. 

Now try asking Google Map for the distance between Dubai and San Francisco, and it will draw a great circle for you, over the Arctic, close to Moscow as we have been saying.

Jeepers, can't believe that you and the wedding guy thought it was a flight plan.  Unbelievable. 

11

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Bipolar Model- An Investigation.

« on: March 26, 2022, 12:42:14 PM »

In-flight diversions are a lot more complex than just diverting to the ‘nearest airport’, as some (including the author of that ‘book’) seem to think.

Most international airlines use a service based in Phoenix, AZ called MedLink MedAire. This is a 24/7 operation staffed by ER doctors which is the first port of call for aircraft in the air when there’s a sick passenger.
They will advise the airline on the best course of action.
Factors that need to be considered in choosing a diversion airport:
•   If it’s a medical diversion, is the patient stable? Is it every second counts?
•   Medical care facilities at the airport, and wider area
•   Runway length, runway strength, taxiway strength, anticipated aircraft landing weight
•   Weather now and forecast
•   Air traffic control provision
•   Airport fire fighting and rescue cover
•   Fuel and aircraft servicing provision (hydraulic fuel, lubricants, steps to reach the aircraft, baggage facilities, towing capability)
•   Does the airline have contracts in place with companies at the proposed diversion airport?
•   Engineer/mechanic provision
•   Flight crew duty hours
•   Relief crew position
•   Passenger services (immigration/customs)
•   Accommodation for crew and passengers
•   Distance from aircraft (to be comfortable for passengers, most airliners require about 10nm for every 3000ft of altitude. The descent rate could be increased somewhat if it was an emergency, but you’re still talking nearly 100nm from 35,000ft).
•   Passengers on board (do they need visas to land at proposed diversion? Will they be kept on board for hours while the situation is sorted out?).
•   Are there vulnerable passengers on board (i.e. people whom one country would be very keen to get their hands on? (for example the relatively recent incident over Belarus)) .
•   Political concerns (i.e. A US flight might go another 20-30nm to avoid diverting to Iran and making it to UAE).
These are factors I have just come up with, and no doubt there are many more to be considered.

To second guess why a crew made a decision to divert to a particular airport with no knowledge of most of these factors (as the 'book' does) is naive in the extreme.

Happy to answer any questions on the above, if I can!

You posted a bunch of reasons why flights might be diverted, but zero reasons for why they would be diverted to a place that would make a straight line between the destinations on a Flat Earth Azimuthal map.

You've completely failed to comprehend Gonzo's list. This is not a "bunch of reasons why a flight might be diverted".  It's a (non-exhaustive) list of factors that an aircraft commander must consider when deciding which airport he/she should divert to; his point is that it will not necessarily be the nearest, or more obvious to a layman. 

Added to that, a close-to great-circle flightpath, particularly in the northern hemisphere, is not necessarily mutually exclusive with a polar azimuthal flat-world map. 

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Bipolar Model- An Investigation.

« on: March 21, 2022, 12:46:59 PM »

Pretty odd and desperate rebuttal there. Aeronautics credentials are not required to connect three points on a map.

I guess you can't really rebut the content directly and have to demand aeronautic credentials. 

Correct, and even an Air Transport Pilot's Licence holder can probably point and shoot at a wedding, so I guess we are agreed that no one needs any particular skill to do anything.  (Thank God for the internet). 

Of course, in addition to a rudimentary knowledge of geometry, it would probably be an advantage to know which 3 dots have to be connected, what areas need to be avoided, and what other dots are available if one of the original dots gets deleted.   

13

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Bipolar Model- An Investigation.

« on: March 19, 2022, 09:12:43 PM »

If you've got to be spoon fed, you could start by opening the open-source Marinetraffic.com (Jomples gave you a link if you have problems with the internet) and search the vessel Hyundai Jakarta.  A data window will open, giving its alleged voyage details.  Then do some maths.

So you just assumed a bunch of things and claimed it to be fact, and don't actually have data for us. I see.

Read what I wrote,, and dispute the facts.

What facts? You provided no sources or links for which we can get log information from.

All of the log data is available if you have an account.

Hundai Jakarta

A path across three degrees proves this? Where are the full logs?

You have me sunk, Tom.  I assumed that the ship exists, that it sailed from Chennai and will arrive in Sao Paolo tomorrow.  Naivety on my part. 

As a counter argument, how do you propose that the containers are getting to South America?

14

Flat Earth Community / Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.

« on: March 19, 2022, 08:32:07 PM »

My understanding has always been that Tomahawk navigates by Terrain Profile Matching, in which case it could navigate with equal ease on a flat, globe or banana shaped world, as long as it has contour map data for the terrain below its course. 

In other words, it navigates just the way you and I drive; by ascertaining our current position, comparing with desired position, and producing an error signal.  We don't drive to the end of the street on a specific heading for a specific distance and turn left; we drive down the street, monitoring where we are in relation to the kerb and white lines until we reach the stop sign, then turn left, maintaining road position etc.  We can navigate this way, using small scale maps, over any distance.  Tomahawk does just the same, using terrain contours as a datum.  It is only ever interested in, and bases its spatial awareness on, the terrain immediately below it.

I see zero sources on how it works to use a FE model on an RE, just "your understanding".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(missile)#Navigation

". . . Based on comparison results the missile's inertial navigation system is updated and the missile corrects its course . . ."

It flies at low level, and only looks at the terrain immediately surrounding it.  At least, that's my understanding of reading this. 

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Bipolar Model- An Investigation.

« on: March 19, 2022, 08:02:08 PM »

If you've got to be spoon fed, you could start by opening the open-source Marinetraffic.com (Jomples gave you a link if you have problems with the internet) and search the vessel Hyundai Jakarta.  A data window will open, giving its alleged voyage details.  Then do some maths. 

16

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Bipolar Model- An Investigation.

« on: March 19, 2022, 07:32:39 PM »

Read what I wrote,, and dispute the facts. 

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Flat Earth Community / Re: Flat earth discourse is valuable without the literalism involved.

« on: March 19, 2022, 07:30:49 PM »

My understanding has always been that Tomahawk navigates by Terrain Profile Matching, in which case it could navigate with equal ease on a flat, globe or banana shaped world, as long as it has contour map data for the terrain below its course. 

In other words, it navigates just the way you and I drive; by ascertaining our current position, comparing with desired position, and producing an error signal.  We don't drive to the end of the street on a specific heading for a specific distance and turn left; we drive down the street, monitoring where we are in relation to the kerb and white lines until we reach the stop sign, then turn left, maintaining road position etc.  We can navigate this way, using small scale maps, over any distance.  Tomahawk does just the same, using terrain contours as a datum.  It is only ever interested in, and bases its spatial awareness on, the terrain immediately below it. 

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Bipolar Model- An Investigation.

« on: March 19, 2022, 07:10:47 PM »

Jomple's "multicolored ships" are real, steel ships, with crews and commercial cargo on them; real things getting transported places.  Its a Mercator projection because that's what fits conveniently on a computer screen.  It obviously isn't to scale, because its a projection. 

I invite you to look again at Marine Traffic.  Lets take the container ship Hundai Jakarta.  (hint; its a green ship).  It is currently about 300km south east of its destination, the port of Santos, Sao Paolo, Brazil, where it anticipates arriving in the early hours of tomorrow (Brazil time), having transited the South Atlantic.  It left Kattupalli, Chennai, India at 18.06 local time on 26 Feb 2022.  Its current speed over ground is 13.6 kts on a course of 296 deg.  If that were its average speed, it would travel 326 NM per day, or 605 km per day.  I just measured the global distances for a typical great-circle journey down the east coast of India, around Sri Lanka, around the cape of Good Hope to Santos as slightly over 15000 km.  At 605 km per day that would give a voyage time of 24 days.  Actual voyage time seems to be around 22 days, which I think is pretty close, considering that we only did the math based on its current speed.  Someone like RonJ could probably advise us better. 

So; what have we got.  Real ship, actual speed, actual distance, voyage time seem to marry up.  Alternatives we could explore:

1.   Ship doesn't exist. 
2.   Ship did not leave India on the date stated. 
3.   The "Winds That Must Not Be Named".  (Note that the South Atlantic is actually bursting at the seams with red and green ships sailing both East and West.  Some wind). 
4.   Disc World; of course, for this to work, we would need know the distance on a flat map. 

19

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers

« on: March 17, 2022, 02:15:37 PM »

A video of a flight from Santiago to Sydney taken by a flat earther, wielding a compass he clearly doesn't understand, is linked to in the wiki as evidence of the earth being flat.

Ha. Nice.
It is interesting how this conversation has gone. It starts with a FE person demanding we look in to flight routes between two pairs of specific cities. When it’s patiently explained that there aren’t direct flights between any two arbitrary cities because of demand and hub-spoke models the FE person says he picked those pairs of cities because of the distance. He then challenges us to find a pair of cities further apart and when that’s done and a video review of someone taking that flight is provided it’s simply implied that could be fake. The logic contradictions and goalpost shifting are bewildering

I picked the two furthest flight routes on a Flat Earth map. But on a Globe Earth map they are quite short (12,000km and 12,500km). The fact that there are no direct flights is part of my point.

I then proved that even the shortest flights available travel the longest way possible on a Round Earth map and quite efficiently on a Flat Earth map.

The target has never moved. I asked you to find me a flight I can book.

If you can't understand what I have done then that's evidence that your faith in a round earth is grounded in nothing other than blind belief as you are unable to even conceptualise in your mind basic contrasts between how flight routes on a Flat Earth vs Round Earth should behave.

No response to my Reply#36?  I presented a 15000km flight from Buenos Aires to Darwin, which trumps your 12500km.  A flight which actually occurred, non-stop, in 2021, by an Antarctic route. 

What, can't book it?  Perhaps if you're not interested in other peoples answers you may be asking the wrong question. 

20

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers

« on: March 16, 2022, 08:03:54 PM »

Hand-held compasses don't work in an aircraft; the fuselage is a big faraday cage, only with added RF electromagnetic interference.   An aircraft's compass-detector is located remotely on a wingtip or in the tail.  We aren't even allowed to use ferrous screws in the mountings.  They are so sensitive that when we set them up (a "compass swing"), the operator has to divest himself of all metalwork like phone, watch, jewellery.   

Some aircraft still have a standby compass mounted in the cockpit for emergency use, but it is calibrated to only be accurate with basic essential electrical systems operating.  Switching on windshield deice, for instance, will typically introduce a 50 degree error.