*

Offline AATW

  • *
  • Posts: 6488
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5800 on: June 24, 2020, 11:00:48 AM »
Trump stated positions indicated the closest thing available to having a "hands off" approach to the economy.

That is why I voted for him.

That, and the idea he would start to pull us out of Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.

Which is fine.
What I don't understand is why people are such apologists for him.
Over here I voted for Corbyn because he wasn't Boris. And because generally I agree with his outlook on things and think he wanted to try and do the right things - obviously I agreed those were the right things.
But that doesn't mean I think Corbyn was an amazing choice, he wasn't statesman-like, he was indecisive, he was idealistic but not always realistic.
Opinion in politics - and just generally - seems to have got so polarised. There are a lot of Orange Man Bad people, maybe I am one, I just don't see much to like in the guy. But there are a lot of Orange Man Good people too who defend everything he does no matter how crass.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #5801 on: June 24, 2020, 11:08:31 AM »
Trump stated positions indicated the closest thing available to having a "hands off" approach to the economy.

That is why I voted for him.

That, and the idea he would start to pull us out of Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.

Which is fine.
What I don't understand is why people are such apologists for him.
Over here I voted for Corbyn because he wasn't Boris. And because generally I agree with his outlook on things and think he wanted to try and do the right things - obviously I agreed those were the right things.
But that doesn't mean I think Corbyn was an amazing choice, he wasn't statesman-like, he was indecisive, he was idealistic but not always realistic.
Opinion in politics - and just generally - seems to have got so polarised. There are a lot of Orange Man Bad people, maybe I am one, I just don't see much to like in the guy. But there are a lot of Orange Man Good people too who defend everything he does no matter how crass.
Can you give me an example of defense, cause I am missing that part, tbh...

I am unsure about the polarization over politics too, because it seems to be more a polarization based on feelings... i.e., "If you don't feel the way I do about...then you are wrong!" ETA: Yes, I understand emotions are part of politics and I think this is what the driver is behind this movement. Will not be going away, regrettably...Introduced by Czar Bushy the I, because he had for shit policies and was just a straight up murdering POS...

No discussion about the merits of policy or procedure...
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 11:18:11 AM by totallackey »

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7653
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5802 on: June 24, 2020, 11:23:52 AM »
Trump stated positions indicated the closest thing available to having a "hands off" approach to the economy.

That is why I voted for him.

That, and the idea he would start to pull us out of Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.

These are all good reasons to support someone.

If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #5803 on: June 24, 2020, 01:42:50 PM »
Trump stated positions indicated the closest thing available to having a "hands off" approach to the economy.

That is why I voted for him.

That, and the idea he would start to pull us out of Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.

These are all good reasons to support someone.
Are they all good reasons to attack someone?

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7653
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5804 on: June 24, 2020, 02:33:58 PM »
Trump stated positions indicated the closest thing available to having a "hands off" approach to the economy.

That is why I voted for him.

That, and the idea he would start to pull us out of Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.

These are all good reasons to support someone.
Are they all good reasons to attack someone?

Personally, no.  Their ideas, yes.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #5805 on: June 24, 2020, 02:38:48 PM »
Trump stated positions indicated the closest thing available to having a "hands off" approach to the economy.

That is why I voted for him.

That, and the idea he would start to pull us out of Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.

These are all good reasons to support someone.
Are they all good reasons to attack someone?

Personally, no.  Their ideas, yes.
Forgive me, but could you elucidate a little more perhaps?

Has anyone openly attacked (or is openly attacking) Trump over these things?

I mean, actually stated: "Donald Trump is a shitbag for supporting a free economy and wanting to end regime-change wars."

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7653
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5806 on: June 24, 2020, 03:16:25 PM »
Trump stated positions indicated the closest thing available to having a "hands off" approach to the economy.

That is why I voted for him.

That, and the idea he would start to pull us out of Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.

These are all good reasons to support someone.
Are they all good reasons to attack someone?

Personally, no.  Their ideas, yes.
Forgive me, but could you elucidate a little more perhaps?

Has anyone openly attacked (or is openly attacking) Trump over these things?

I mean, actually stated: "Donald Trump is a shitbag for supporting a free economy and wanting to end regime-change wars."
More like "Wtf?  You can't pull out of the Middle East!  You'll just make AlQuida stronger!"
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #5807 on: June 24, 2020, 03:22:54 PM »
Trump stated positions indicated the closest thing available to having a "hands off" approach to the economy.

That is why I voted for him.

That, and the idea he would start to pull us out of Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.

These are all good reasons to support someone.
Are they all good reasons to attack someone?

Personally, no.  Their ideas, yes.
Forgive me, but could you elucidate a little more perhaps?

Has anyone openly attacked (or is openly attacking) Trump over these things?

I mean, actually stated: "Donald Trump is a shitbag for supporting a free economy and wanting to end regime-change wars."
More like "Wtf?  You can't pull out of the Middle East!  You'll just make AlQuida stronger!"
Seems the way you have phrased the attacks do not get much traction in the press...kinda makes me consider the validity of such statements to be on par with, "There are WMD... trust us."

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7653
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5808 on: June 24, 2020, 04:33:06 PM »
Trump stated positions indicated the closest thing available to having a "hands off" approach to the economy.

That is why I voted for him.

That, and the idea he would start to pull us out of Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.

These are all good reasons to support someone.
Are they all good reasons to attack someone?

Personally, no.  Their ideas, yes.
Forgive me, but could you elucidate a little more perhaps?

Has anyone openly attacked (or is openly attacking) Trump over these things?

I mean, actually stated: "Donald Trump is a shitbag for supporting a free economy and wanting to end regime-change wars."
More like "Wtf?  You can't pull out of the Middle East!  You'll just make AlQuida stronger!"
Seems the way you have phrased the attacks do not get much traction in the press...kinda makes me consider the validity of such statements to be on par with, "There are WMD... trust us."

Maybe maybe not.  Things are complex.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10637
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5809 on: June 24, 2020, 05:42:07 PM »
This is my interpretation:

Rama Set - Lives in Toronto - Hates Trump
AllAroundTheWorld - Lives in Europe - Hates Trump
Tunemi - Also lives in Europe - Hates Trump
Lord Dave - Also lives abroad - Hates Trump

We find a thread filled with people who are not even Americans, constantly spewing hate for a foreign leader.

Sorry, but you don't really live here and consequently don't know what is best for America. You may not have the same problems, or socialist and corporate influence infesting your laws and social norms. You did not grow up in America or with its values. This criticism of Trump is rather tenuous, based on a foreigner's interpretation of however their media and culture wants to display the America-first nationalist President Donald Trump.

I personally do not really give a flip who your leaders are and why they are important for your country at any given time. I don't live there, did not grow up there, and wouldn't know. I don't care about how bad Angela Merkel, or whoever, is. I don't know what's best for Germany. It would be pretty ridiculous if I went to some German forum and constantly complained about her.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 06:12:51 PM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline TomInAustin

  • *
  • Posts: 1367
  • Round Duh
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5810 on: June 24, 2020, 06:10:47 PM »

Lifetime politicians are not something we want anymore. They tend to be corrupt hacks.

Exactly.   

Someone please mark this day.  I agree with TB
Do you have a citation for this sweeping generalisation?

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #5811 on: June 24, 2020, 06:32:03 PM »
This is my interpretation:

Rama Set - Lives in Toronto - Hates Trump
AllAroundTheWorld - Lives in Europe - Hates Trump
Tunemi - Also lives in Europe - Hates Trump
Lord Dave - Also lives abroad - Hates Trump

We find a thread filled with people who are not even Americans, constantly spewing hate for a foreign leader.

Sorry, but you don't really live here and consequently don't know what is best for America. You may not have the same problems, or socialist and corporate influence infesting your laws and social norms. You did not grow up in America or with its values. This criticism of Trump is rather tenuous, based on a foreigner's interpretation of however their media and culture wants to display the America-first nationalist President Donald Trump.

Classic American defensiveness. No one can possibly understand what’s happening in America. It sounds like an angsty teen.

Quote
I personally do not really give a flip

Language, Tom.

Quote
who your leaders are and why they are important for your country at any given time. I don't live there, did not grow up there, and wouldn't know. I don't care about how bad Angela Merkel, or whoever, is. I don't know what's best for Germany. It would be pretty ridiculous if I went to some German forum and constantly complained about her.

This isn’t an American forum though is it? The admin is an Australian living in Europe, one of the ex-admins is a polish expat in the UK. We have Thork, etc, etc...

Even if it were, obviously ideas and arguments should be judged on their merits and not their source, right? You certainly claim that when one of your moron sources claims Pi=4 or what not.

This is an obvious attempt to divert attention away from the topic and you might want to stop it.

*

Offline timterroo

  • *
  • Posts: 1052
  • domo arigato gozaimashita
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5812 on: June 24, 2020, 06:44:49 PM »

We find a thread filled with people who are not even Americans, constantly spewing hate for a foreign leader.


I'm American. I think Trump is a crook.

Sorry, but you don't really live here and consequently don't know what is best for America. You may not have the same problems, or socialist and corporate influence infesting your laws and social norms. You did not grow up in America or with its values. This criticism of Trump is rather tenuous, based on a foreigner's interpretation of however their media and culture wants to display the America-first nationalist President Donald Trump.

I personally do not really give a flip who your leaders are and why they are important for your country at any given time. I don't live there, did not grow up there, and wouldn't know. I don't care about how bad Angela Merkel, or whoever, is. I don't know what's best for Germany. It would be pretty ridiculous if I went to some German forum and constantly complained about her.

What happens in American politics affects the entire world, not just the USA. It seems logical that if you are concerned with world politics, you'd be very concerned about the leaders of other nations. Especially when one starts to look like an authoritarian leader who acts like he can do anything he wants.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

*

Offline AATW

  • *
  • Posts: 6488
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5813 on: June 24, 2020, 07:45:20 PM »
We find a thread filled with people who are not even Americans, constantly spewing hate for a foreign leader.
Many people in the US are famously insular and don’t seem to care much what is going on anywhere else. This may blow your mind but in many countries people do care about what’s going on outside their borders, especially when it’s stuff going on in a powerful country like the US which affects the rest of the world.

So yeah, when Trump pulls the US out of the Paris Climate agreement then I have an opinion about that. It might be a good thing for the US economy in the short term but it’s a bad thing for the world in the US in the long term. And contrary to popular belief the US is in the world so that will also be bad for the US.

And I have an opinion about him as a person. I have made that opinion pretty clear. I see almost no redeeming qualities. So I asked you what you see in him. Most of your answer was “I don’t like the alternative”. That’s not an answer. The bits you did answer:

1) He’s a businessman, not a politician - refreshing change, maybe, but I don’t see that qualifies him, and he’s failed in many business ventures. His business empire is based on inheritance, he hasn’t built it up from scratch.

2) He gave up billions of dollars - did he, though? How do you figure?

3) He’s “draining the swamp” - he pledged to, but has he really? How so?

4) He holds good values - by a distance your most baffling claim.

My criticism of him is based on the way he acts, the things he says and does.

I note you haven’t addressed my post, your response is basically “you don’t live here, you don’t get to have an opinion” which is a pretty weak response.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7653
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5814 on: June 24, 2020, 08:26:11 PM »
This is my interpretation:
Lord Dave - Also lives abroad - Hates Trump
Umm... I AM an American.  I plan on voting for Joe Biden in November using my very legal Absentee ballot.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10637
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5815 on: June 24, 2020, 08:54:18 PM »
Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
Many people in the US are famously insular and don’t seem to care much what is going on anywhere else. This may blow your mind but in many countries people do care about what’s going on outside their borders, especially when it’s stuff going on in a powerful country like the US which affects the rest of the world.

So yeah, when Trump pulls the US out of the Paris Climate agreement then I have an opinion about that. It might be a good thing for the US economy in the short term but it’s a bad thing for the world in the US in the long term. And contrary to popular belief the US is in the world so that will also be bad for the US.

And I have an opinion about him as a person. I have made that opinion pretty clear. I see almost no redeeming qualities. So I asked you what you see in him. Most of your answer was “I don’t like the alternative”. That’s not an answer.

Had you lived here you would know that the the democratic party was the majority for a long time and infests all levels of government, corporations, and society and directly relates to Trump's rebellious movement. "I don't like the swamp" is a valid answer. The GOP is also a swamp, but that is more like lawful evil versus chaotic evil. Trump's movement is unique and may branch off into its own party someday.

You also say that leaving the Paris Climate agreement was good for America, but bad for everyone else. Why should America do something that's not in its self interest? That agreement had the US giving billions of dollars without oversight to all sorts of countries to develop their green technologies. This example just shows how selfish and greedy you foreigners are, wanting our tax dollars to support the world. America doesn't exist to serve you guys. Use your own money. It is curious that you think that as selfish foreigners you have a qualified opinion on American politics. I don't demand that you serve me with your politics and taxes, and nor do I tell you anything about the leaders you elect. Work on improving your own country so you can use your tax money to support the world.

Umm... I AM an American.

Could have fooled me.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 09:25:02 PM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline Dr David Thork

  • *
  • Posts: 5188
  • https://onlyfans.com/thork
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5816 on: June 24, 2020, 09:16:29 PM »
This example just shows how selfish and greedy you foreigners are, wanting our tax dollars to support the world.
Can we drop the dollar? If we can drop the dollar as the world reserve currency, we'll never ask you for anything. But so long as you can give us IOUs  in exchange for real goods and services without any hope of ever paying us back ... its a stretch to suggest we are the ones exploiting you.
https://goldiraguide.org/the-benefit-of-having-the-worlds-reserve-currency/
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 3179
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5817 on: June 24, 2020, 09:20:28 PM »
You also say that the Paris Climate agreement was good for America, but bad for everyone else. Why should America do something that's not in its self interest? That agreement had the US giving billions of dollars without oversight to all sorts of countries to develop their green technologies. This example just shows how selfish and greedy you foreigners are, wanting our tax dollars to support the world. America doesn't exist to serve you guys. It is curious that you think that as foreigners you have a qualified opinion on American politics. I don't pretend to be an expert about your foreign politics like you do with America.

It's the world's environment, common to us all.

If America pollutes to a significant degree, it affects the rest of us as well. Look at the size of the USA compared to other countries. You don't have a border which keeps your atmosphere above your lands, which keeps your river pollution within your coasts. Show some collective responsibility. At some point, we all have to get along on this, or we're dead. We've only got one planet.    Stop being so f*cking selfish about it.

If Trump rolls back environmental protections over the whole US, we all, the rest of the world, suffer for it.

At the moment, he seems to be doing this merely as payback for Obama roasting him at the correspondents' dinner. Irresponsible and selfish.
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10637
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5818 on: June 24, 2020, 09:50:35 PM »
Quote
Stop being so f*cking selfish about it.

Quote
Give me and a bunch of countries billions of dollars for our tech

If you want it so bad, plead with your government to step up to give up the money. You are responsible for your own house and wants. You want it, and America doesn't want it. So it's your responsibility to satisfy your wants. It is not America's responsibility to satisfy your wants. America is already tasked with protecting you with its military. I don't see why America has to support and breastfeed the world on every topic. But hopefully its military support also ends at some point.

Quote
Can we drop the dollar?

That's fine with me. You don't have to have the dollar as reserve currency if you don't want to. I don't think America should have to owe anything to anyone. I am certainly not going to whine and cry on an internet forum and tell you what your country should do, or try to insult or degrade your leadership with a three hundred page thread, like some of the crybabies here.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 12:56:50 PM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline TomInAustin

  • *
  • Posts: 1367
  • Round Duh
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #5819 on: June 24, 2020, 10:16:57 PM »
This example just shows how selfish and greedy you foreigners are, wanting our tax dollars to support the world.
Can we drop the dollar? If we can drop the dollar as the world reserve currency, we'll never ask you for anything. But so long as you can give us IOUs  in exchange for real goods and services without any hope of ever paying us back ... its a stretch to suggest we are the ones exploiting you.
https://goldiraguide.org/the-benefit-of-having-the-worlds-reserve-currency/

Careful what you ask for.   Anytime someone makes noise about the dollar their country turns to rubble.   Ask Libya how that worked out.
Do you have a citation for this sweeping generalisation?