The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Technology & Information => Topic started by: totallackey on March 04, 2020, 01:06:28 PM

Title: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 04, 2020, 01:06:28 PM
This is a CGI representation of the solar system traipsing about the galaxy, with the planets dutifully in tow.
(https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)
Please note it is not to scale, and also please note it is not legitimate as it does not utilize Newton/Kepler/Einstein math or laws in its formulation.

The question is this...

Where is the model that actually does use Newton/Kepler/Einstein that I can see on my computer screen?

I mean, this is a pretty cool screen saver, but I want the real "sciency," one touted by heliocentrists across the flat earth plane...
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Rama Set on March 04, 2020, 05:30:49 PM
Watch this series and let us know what you think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btsNk9EANzY
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 05, 2020, 12:15:19 PM
Watch this series and let us know what you think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btsNk9EANzY
Amusing video.
At approximately 2:50 in, states you need to turn the “collider,” off, otherwise planets will be careening into each other.
And other than making mention of Newton up front, there was no mention of making use of the formula for Universal Gravitation in the design of the program.
Can you post the links to the rest of the series?
No sun in motion.
Actually seemed to depict an x/y plane with objects in motion above in a cylindrical fashion, exactly as one one would see in a flat earth model.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Rama Set on March 05, 2020, 02:41:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8yiJsSg6Hg
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Rama Set on March 05, 2020, 03:05:50 PM
So that series shows that just by adding objects with mass, giving them an initial vector and applying newton's law of gravitation, you can end up with a stable 3-D orbital system.

Adam Bielecki has gone further and created the actual solar system using the same software package.

https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/templates/packs/solar-system-16139

Unfortunately you have to pay for it.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 05, 2020, 03:54:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8yiJsSg6Hg
Thanks.
So that series shows that just by adding objects with mass, giving them an initial vector and applying newton's law of gravitation, you can end up with a stable 3-D orbital system.

Adam Bielecki has gone further and created the actual solar system using the same software package.

https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/templates/packs/solar-system-16139

Unfortunately you have to pay for it.
And I do not see the need to pay for it, as at approximately 2:00 in to part 2, which you provided, the lady states specifically the sun is NOT going to move around.

So, it really does nothing of what is claimed.

It truly does not even use Newton/Kepler/Einstein in its modeling of a MOVING solar system.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Rama Set on March 05, 2020, 06:41:34 PM

And I do not see the need to pay for it, as at approximately 2:00 in to part 2, which you provided, the lady states specifically the sun is NOT going to move around.

So, it really does nothing of what is claimed.

It truly does not even use Newton/Kepler/Einstein in its modeling of a MOVING solar system.

It does use Newton's equations for the model, I am not sure why you think otherwise?  You can see her code it.  Your issue is that it does not show the solar system moving through the galaxy?  Would you concede that it adequately models a solar system?
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 06, 2020, 08:58:44 AM

And I do not see the need to pay for it, as at approximately 2:00 in to part 2, which you provided, the lady states specifically the sun is NOT going to move around.

So, it really does nothing of what is claimed.

It truly does not even use Newton/Kepler/Einstein in its modeling of a MOVING solar system.

It does use Newton's equations for the model, I am not sure why you think otherwise?  You can see her code it.  Your issue is that it does not show the solar system moving through the galaxy?  Would you concede that it adequately models a solar system?
How can it use Newton's equations if the model is not moving?

You do believe the sun is moving,  right?
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Rama Set on March 06, 2020, 12:14:19 PM
You saw her input and talk about using Newton’s equations right? I don’t want to gloss past that. Answer that and I will come back to your question.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Rama Set on March 12, 2020, 03:55:57 PM
I am happy to continue this conversation.  Just need you to confirm that we saw the same thing: namely the video creator coding for newton's law of gravitation and laws of motion?
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: AATW on March 13, 2020, 09:22:04 AM
How can it use Newton's equations if the model is not moving?

You do believe the sun is moving,  right?
Presumably because of the frame of reference they have chosen.
If you are on a plane and you jump you don't go shooting to the back of the plane.
Assuming the plane is going at a constant velocity and you jump straight up you're going to land where you took off.
If you were going to use Newton's laws to track your path you wouldn't consider the movement of the plane.
You can choose different frames of references, it depends what you are trying to model. If you are going to model the solar system then you would probably start on the basis of a stationary sun. That isn't the reality but you don't need to consider the sun's movement when modelling the solar system any more than you need to consider the plane's movement when modelling where you will land when you jump on one.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 13, 2020, 11:48:34 AM
I am happy to continue this conversation.  Just need you to confirm that we saw the same thing: namely the video creator coding for newton's law of gravitation and laws of motion?
I heard her mention it.

Now, kindly inform us all how that could be relevant if the model's visual output does NOT render a visual image of the sun appearing to move as in the gif I presented in the OP...
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 13, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
How can it use Newton's equations if the model is not moving?

You do believe the sun is moving,  right?
Presumably because of the frame of reference they have chosen.
If you are on a plane and you jump you don't go shooting to the back of the plane.
Assuming the plane is going at a constant velocity and you jump straight up you're going to land where you took off.
If you were going to use Newton's laws to track your path you wouldn't consider the movement of the plane.
You can choose different frames of references, it depends what you are trying to model. If you are going to model the solar system then you would probably start on the basis of a stationary sun. That isn't the reality but you don't need to consider the sun's movement when modelling the solar system any more than you need to consider the plane's movement when modelling where you will land when you jump on one.
Evidently some heliocentrist thought it was important enough to model actual reality to the point where he COULD NOT USE THE ACTUAL MATH to get the REAL PICTURE!

Curious, don't ya think?
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Rama Set on March 13, 2020, 12:36:58 PM
I am happy to continue this conversation.  Just need you to confirm that we saw the same thing: namely the video creator coding for newton's law of gravitation and laws of motion?
I heard her mention it.

And you saw her input code that used Newton’s laws?  Would you agree that this is a model of bodies in orbit using Newton’s Laws?

Quote
Now, kindly inform us all how that could be relevant if the model's visual output does NOT render a visual image of the sun appearing to move as in the gif I presented in the OP...

As mentioned it’s a matter of Newtonian relativity. If you want to model the motion of planets relative to the sun, you don’t need to account for the motion of the sun. Modeling the motion of the sun through the galaxy is an exponentially more complex matter. I would be surprised if we have enough data to plot its motion as accurately as with planets in the solar system. The gif above is not difficult to create but it’s meant to be an illustration of principle rather than an accurate model.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: AATW on March 13, 2020, 12:40:34 PM
Evidently some heliocentrist thought it was important enough to model actual reality to the point where he COULD NOT USE THE ACTUAL MATH to get the REAL PICTURE!

Curious, don't ya think?
I genuinely don't know what you are talking about.
The model you're talking about is of the solar system. The obvious frame of reference to choose when modelling that is that of a stationary sun. It's like how you'd model a person jumping on the ground the exact same way you'd model it on a plane travelling at a constant velocity. If the airplane is accelerating as the person jumps, then you'd have to take that into account.
I honestly don't know what you're getting at here.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 14, 2020, 02:05:28 PM
I am happy to continue this conversation.  Just need you to confirm that we saw the same thing: namely the video creator coding for newton's law of gravitation and laws of motion?
I heard her mention it.
And you saw her input code that used Newton’s laws?  Would you agree that this is a model of bodies in orbit using Newton’s Laws?
Why do you want me and everyone else to think this model is anything like the one I posted in the OP. Here it is again:
(https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)
Now, please answer the question. Does the model you provide depict the sun moving or not?
Quote
Now, kindly inform us all how that could be relevant if the model's visual output does NOT render a visual image of the sun appearing to move as in the gif I presented in the OP...

As mentioned it’s a matter of Newtonian relativity. If you want to model the motion of planets relative to the sun, you don’t need to account for the motion of the sun. Modeling the motion of the sun through the galaxy is an exponentially more complex matter. I would be surprised if we have enough data to plot its motion as accurately as with planets in the solar system. The gif above is not difficult to create but it’s meant to be an illustration of principle rather than an accurate model.
Well, since I asked for an accurate model that looked like the one I presented in the OP and you can't find it, I think we all can take that as an admission it can't be done.

Newton/Kepler/Einstein really doesn't work as advertised.

Thanks for owning up to this fact.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 14, 2020, 02:11:22 PM
Evidently some heliocentrist thought it was important enough to model actual reality to the point where he COULD NOT USE THE ACTUAL MATH to get the REAL PICTURE!

Curious, don't ya think?
I genuinely don't know what you are talking about.
You don't know the solar system is supposedly moving throughout the galaxy?

According to the the scientists you hold dear, it is.

That is what I am writing about.
The model you're talking about is of the solar system. The obvious frame of reference to choose when modelling that is that of a stationary sun.
Then why did this: (https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)
get out?
It's like how you'd model a person jumping on the ground the exact same way you'd model it on a plane travelling at a constant velocity. If the airplane is accelerating as the person jumps, then you'd have to take that into account.
I honestly don't know what you're getting at here.
I am getting at providing an accurate CGI representation of a moving solar system, according to the scientists...you know, real "sciency," based on Newton/Kepler/Einstein math...
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Rama Set on March 14, 2020, 06:51:42 PM
I am happy to continue this conversation.  Just need you to confirm that we saw the same thing: namely the video creator coding for newton's law of gravitation and laws of motion?
I heard her mention it.
And you saw her input code that used Newton’s laws?  Would you agree that this is a model of bodies in orbit using Newton’s Laws?
Why do you want me and everyone else to think this model is anything like the one I posted in the OP. Here it is again:
(https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)
Now, please answer the question. Does the model you provide depict the sun moving or not?
Quote
Now, kindly inform us all how that could be relevant if the model's visual output does NOT render a visual image of the sun appearing to move as in the gif I presented in the OP...

As mentioned it’s a matter of Newtonian relativity. If you want to model the motion of planets relative to the sun, you don’t need to account for the motion of the sun. Modeling the motion of the sun through the galaxy is an exponentially more complex matter. I would be surprised if we have enough data to plot its motion as accurately as with planets in the solar system. The gif above is not difficult to create but it’s meant to be an illustration of principle rather than an accurate model.
Well, since I asked for an accurate model that looked like the one I presented in the OP and you can't find it, I think we all can take that as an admission it can't be done.

Newton/Kepler/Einstein really doesn't work as advertised.

Thanks for owning up to this fact.

You’ve seen a solar system can be modeled with Newton’s laws but for some reason you think that adding a velocity to the sun renders the entire enterprise impossible? Explain why that step makes the whole thing fall apart at least.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: AATW on March 14, 2020, 08:16:01 PM
You don't know the solar system is supposedly moving throughout the galaxy?

I do know that but I don’t know why you’d expect any solar system model to account for it. Because it makes no difference to the movements of the planets or moons in the solar system.
Why would you add unnecessary complication to a model when it isn’t needed?

Quote
Then why did this: (https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)
get out?

I don’t know what you mean by “get out” but I assume that animation was done to explain to the layman the fact that the solar system is moving.

Quote
I am getting at providing an accurate CGI representation of a moving solar system, according to the scientists...you know, real "sciency," based on Newton/Kepler/Einstein math...

I don’t know if that exists, to be honest I’m not sure what anyone would do it for.
Maybe someone has but I’m not going to look for one. I’m not sure what you think it would prove. An accurate model of the solar system - and we have those - should give enough confidence in the laws of physics which underpin it.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: xasop on March 14, 2020, 08:48:30 PM
Quote
I am getting at providing an accurate CGI representation of a moving solar system, according to the scientists...you know, real "sciency," based on Newton/Kepler/Einstein math...

I don’t know if that exists

Of course it does. Take any CGI model of a stationary solar system, set it running on your computer screen, then get up and walk past the screen. The screen (and hence the model) is now moving relative to you.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Rama Set on March 14, 2020, 09:01:50 PM
Quote
I am getting at providing an accurate CGI representation of a moving solar system, according to the scientists...you know, real "sciency," based on Newton/Kepler/Einstein math...

I don’t know if that exists

Of course it does. Take any CGI model of a stationary solar system, set it running on your computer screen, then get up and walk past the screen. The screen (and hence the model) is now moving relative to you.

Boom!  But unfortunately we aren't moving quite fast enough.  How about we set up a giant TV on Earth and film it from the ISS?
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 16, 2020, 10:22:39 AM
You’ve seen a solar system can be modeled with Newton’s laws but for some reason you think that adding a velocity to the sun renders the entire enterprise impossible? Explain why that step makes the whole thing fall apart at least.
It falls apart because if it didn't fall apart you would not try to deflect the topic to a model that doesn't depict the sun moving.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 16, 2020, 10:27:47 AM
You don't know the solar system is supposedly moving throughout the galaxy?

I do know that but I don’t know why you’d expect any solar system model to account for it.
Truth in advertising.
Because it makes no difference to the movements of the planets or moons in the solar system.
Why would you add unnecessary complication to a model when it isn’t needed?
To depict the whole of the model.
Quote
Then why did this: (https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)
get out?

I don’t know what you mean by “get out” but I assume that animation was done to explain to the layman the fact that the solar system is moving.
In other words, it was done to depict the truth, except it didn't use the truth.
Quote
I am getting at providing an accurate CGI representation of a moving solar system, according to the scientists...you know, real "sciency," based on Newton/Kepler/Einstein math...

I don’t know if that exists, to be honest I’m not sure what anyone would do it for.
Maybe someone has but I’m not going to look for one. I’m not sure what you think it would prove. An accurate model of the solar system - and we have those - should give enough confidence in the laws of physics which underpin it.
It doesn't exist.

Because the sun is not moving throughout a galaxy, the earth doesn't revolve around the sun, and the math of Newton/Kepler/Einstein is all BS.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Rama Set on March 16, 2020, 12:40:47 PM
You’ve seen a solar system can be modeled with Newton’s laws but for some reason you think that adding a velocity to the sun renders the entire enterprise impossible? Explain why that step makes the whole thing fall apart at least.
It falls apart because if it didn't fall apart you would not try to deflect the topic to a model that doesn't depict the sun moving.

I tried, but you obviously have nothing of substance to say on the topic. Take it easy.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 16, 2020, 12:46:25 PM
You’ve seen a solar system can be modeled with Newton’s laws but for some reason you think that adding a velocity to the sun renders the entire enterprise impossible? Explain why that step makes the whole thing fall apart at least.
It falls apart because if it didn't fall apart you would not try to deflect the topic to a model that doesn't depict the sun moving.

I tried, but you obviously have nothing of substance to say on the topic. Take it easy.
Well, admittedly, defining substance can be difficult at times if you are trying to achieve consensus.

That is why I tried to restrict the topic to the subject matter I introduced.

That of a moving solar system.

I see you didn't have one to offer which is not surprising.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: stack on March 16, 2020, 11:46:23 PM
Because the sun is not moving throughout a galaxy, the earth doesn't revolve around the sun, and the math of Newton/Kepler/Einstein is all BS.

And you're basing that statement on what? You realize it's just you saying that without backing it up so what's the point of saying it to begin with? I think we know what your opinion is.

You've been shown this before. It's super cool:

Check out the American Museum of Natural History - Hayden Planetarium ‘Digital Universe'

Download:

https://www.openspaceproject.com/

You can render simulations like this one they did of the solar system moving through the milky way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4y1WDl-WP8

All Newtonian/Keplarian, just the way you like it.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 17, 2020, 10:51:03 AM
Because the sun is not moving throughout a galaxy, the earth doesn't revolve around the sun, and the math of Newton/Kepler/Einstein is all BS.

And you're basing that statement on what? You realize it's just you saying that without backing it up so what's the point of saying it to begin with? I think we know what your opinion is.

You've been shown this before. It's super cool:

Check out the American Museum of Natural History - Hayden Planetarium ‘Digital Universe'

Download:

https://www.openspaceproject.com/

You can render simulations like this one they did of the solar system moving through the milky way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4y1WDl-WP8

All Newtonian/Keplarian, just the way you like it.
Highly entertaining, yet nowhere near what was presented in the OP.

I didn't see the sun moving once in the video, nor was any planet depicted in orbit.

Utter failure...
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Tumeni on March 17, 2020, 04:14:08 PM
I see depictions of orbits up to around the 55sec point.

Why don't you see them?
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 18, 2020, 10:40:18 AM
I see depictions of orbits up to around the 55sec point.

Why don't you see them?
I meant to write "orbits around a moving sun."

Regardless, all you see are lines.

I don't count that as a depiction of a orbit.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: JSS on March 18, 2020, 05:27:58 PM
This is a CGI representation of the solar system traipsing about the galaxy, with the planets dutifully in tow.
(https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)
Please note it is not to scale, and also please note it is not legitimate as it does not utilize Newton/Kepler/Einstein math or laws in its formulation.

The question is this...

Where is the model that actually does use Newton/Kepler/Einstein that I can see on my computer screen?

I mean, this is a pretty cool screen saver, but I want the real "sciency," one touted by heliocentrists across the flat earth plane...

I booted up Universe Sandbox, loaded the inner solar system then gave the whole system movement.  Here are some images from the simulation, and these are to scale as requested, all the planets sun and moon have the correct size and gravity and the program is fully simulated with Newtonian mechanics.

(https://i.ibb.co/XtSN58g/Moving-Solar-System1.jpg)

Here is a closeup of the Earth and Moon.  You can't see them as separate lines in the above image due to the scale.  The solar system is a big place!

(https://i.ibb.co/JsX4K62/Moving-Solar-System-Moon.jpg)

I have to admit I haven't loaded Universe Sandbox up for some time, was fun to play around with again.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 18, 2020, 06:47:32 PM
This is a CGI representation of the solar system traipsing about the galaxy, with the planets dutifully in tow.
(https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)
Please note it is not to scale, and also please note it is not legitimate as it does not utilize Newton/Kepler/Einstein math or laws in its formulation.

The question is this...

Where is the model that actually does use Newton/Kepler/Einstein that I can see on my computer screen?

I mean, this is a pretty cool screen saver, but I want the real "sciency," one touted by heliocentrists across the flat earth plane...

I booted up Universe Sandbox, loaded the inner solar system then gave the whole system movement.  Here are some images from the simulation, and these are to scale as requested, all the planets sun and moon have the correct size and gravity and the program is fully simulated with Newtonian mechanics.

(https://i.ibb.co/XtSN58g/Moving-Solar-System1.jpg)

Here is a closeup of the Earth and Moon.  You can't see them as separate lines in the above image due to the scale.  The solar system is a big place!

(https://i.ibb.co/JsX4K62/Moving-Solar-System-Moon.jpg)

I have to admit I haven't loaded Universe Sandbox up for some time, was fun to play around with again.
Yeah...those links you posted look like a white page...quite amazing...

Look...do you see where I clearly identified in my OP the words "not to scale."

I presented this image:(https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)

And I wrote: Please note it is not to scale, and also please note it is not legitimate as it does not utilize Newton/Kepler/Einstein math or laws in its formulation.

So, I know it is not to scale.

The problem is this.

Your Newton/Kepler/Einstein math cannot render such an image, not due to scale, but due to the fact, the orbits would not work and all the stuff claimed by heliocentrists would fall apart in front of the eyes of the observers...pity.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Rama Set on March 18, 2020, 06:53:06 PM
This of course completely ignores that you have been shown simulations of orbits in this thread using Newton's equations.  Its very sad when your position requires you to ignore evidence while you provide none.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: JSS on March 18, 2020, 06:57:27 PM
Yeah...those links you posted look like a white page...quite amazing...

Look...do you see where I clearly identified in my OP the words "not to scale."

I presented this image:(https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)

And I wrote: Please note it is not to scale, and also please note it is not legitimate as it does not utilize Newton/Kepler/Einstein math or laws in its formulation.

So, I know it is not to scale.

The problem is this.

Your Newton/Kepler/Einstein math cannot render such an image, not due to scale, but due to the fact, the orbits would not work and all the stuff claimed by heliocentrists would fall apart in front of the eyes of the observers...pity.

I don't know what to tell you, they show up for me.  I even used the same hosting service that's your image was on to make sure you could see it.

Below are links to the images.  I'll attach the first one to this reply as well.

Yes, I saw you said your example was not to scale, which is why I specified that mine was.

https://ibb.co/BBqd6Nx

https://ibb.co/d5nqrC6
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 19, 2020, 10:46:31 AM
This of course completely ignores that you have been shown simulations of orbits in this thread using Newton's equations.  Its very sad when your position requires you to ignore evidence while you provide none.
I think it wise to ignore evidence that doesn't fit the criteria of the OP.

Please note the words: Sun moving, with planets dutifully in tow.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 19, 2020, 10:48:04 AM
Yeah...those links you posted look like a white page...quite amazing...

Look...do you see where I clearly identified in my OP the words "not to scale."

I presented this image:(https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)

And I wrote: Please note it is not to scale, and also please note it is not legitimate as it does not utilize Newton/Kepler/Einstein math or laws in its formulation.

So, I know it is not to scale.

The problem is this.

Your Newton/Kepler/Einstein math cannot render such an image, not due to scale, but due to the fact, the orbits would not work and all the stuff claimed by heliocentrists would fall apart in front of the eyes of the observers...pity.

I don't know what to tell you, they show up for me.  I even used the same hosting service that's your image was on to make sure you could see it.

Below are links to the images.  I'll attach the first one to this reply as well.

Yes, I saw you said your example was not to scale, which is why I specified that mine was.

https://ibb.co/BBqd6Nx

https://ibb.co/d5nqrC6
Yeah, well... nice try anyway.

None of the pictures you posted are animated gifs.

Thanks for proving my point.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Tumeni on March 19, 2020, 01:08:55 PM
Regardless, all you see are lines.

I don't count that as a depiction of a orbit.

What would the orbit be depicted with, if not a line? What would you depict it with, if asked to do so?
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Rama Set on March 19, 2020, 04:52:42 PM
It only counts for him if the ball thingamagigs move on the linemabobs. That’s his standard for facts.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: JSS on March 19, 2020, 06:37:46 PM
Yeah...those links you posted look like a white page...quite amazing...

Look...do you see where I clearly identified in my OP the words "not to scale."

I presented this image:(https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)

And I wrote: Please note it is not to scale, and also please note it is not legitimate as it does not utilize Newton/Kepler/Einstein math or laws in its formulation.

So, I know it is not to scale.

The problem is this.

Your Newton/Kepler/Einstein math cannot render such an image, not due to scale, but due to the fact, the orbits would not work and all the stuff claimed by heliocentrists would fall apart in front of the eyes of the observers...pity.

I don't know what to tell you, they show up for me.  I even used the same hosting service that's your image was on to make sure you could see it.

Below are links to the images.  I'll attach the first one to this reply as well.

Yes, I saw you said your example was not to scale, which is why I specified that mine was.

https://ibb.co/BBqd6Nx

https://ibb.co/d5nqrC6
Yeah, well... nice try anyway.

None of the pictures you posted are animated gifs.

Thanks for proving my point.

You never mentioned you needed an animated gif up until now, so I'm not sure what point you think it's proving.  But I'm trying to be helpful so I'll make a gif for you.  Here you go.

The software is Universe Sandbox, and anyone can buy it and play with all kinds of solar systems or even simulations of galaxies and see for themselves how Newtons laws play out. I'd highly recommend it if you're interested in this sort of thing.

(https://i.ibb.co/7YxgRrG/Solar-System-Motion.gif) (https://ibb.co/HFLNxGr)
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 20, 2020, 10:49:36 AM
Regardless, all you see are lines.

I don't count that as a depiction of a orbit.

What would the orbit be depicted with, if not a line? What would you depict it with, if asked to do so?
Lines and visible object like this:
(https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 20, 2020, 10:53:24 AM
Yeah...those links you posted look like a white page...quite amazing...

Look...do you see where I clearly identified in my OP the words "not to scale."

I presented this image:(https://image.ibb.co/d8otAT/ezgif_com_resize_2.gif)

And I wrote: Please note it is not to scale, and also please note it is not legitimate as it does not utilize Newton/Kepler/Einstein math or laws in its formulation.

So, I know it is not to scale.

The problem is this.

Your Newton/Kepler/Einstein math cannot render such an image, not due to scale, but due to the fact, the orbits would not work and all the stuff claimed by heliocentrists would fall apart in front of the eyes of the observers...pity.

I don't know what to tell you, they show up for me.  I even used the same hosting service that's your image was on to make sure you could see it.

Below are links to the images.  I'll attach the first one to this reply as well.

Yes, I saw you said your example was not to scale, which is why I specified that mine was.

https://ibb.co/BBqd6Nx

https://ibb.co/d5nqrC6
Yeah, well... nice try anyway.

None of the pictures you posted are animated gifs.

Thanks for proving my point.

You never mentioned you needed an animated gif up until now, so I'm not sure what point you think it's proving.  But I'm trying to be helpful so I'll make a gif for you.  Here you go.

The software is Universe Sandbox, and anyone can buy it and play with all kinds of solar systems or even simulations of galaxies and see for themselves how Newtons laws play out. I'd highly recommend it if you're interested in this sort of thing.

(https://i.ibb.co/7YxgRrG/Solar-System-Motion.gif) (https://ibb.co/HFLNxGr)
I see you pasted a link in your response but it doesn't render on the monitor.

Looks like you have it tagged incorrectly in your post.

Could you try again?
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: JSS on March 20, 2020, 11:39:35 AM
I see you pasted a link in your response but it doesn't render on the monitor.

Looks like you have it tagged incorrectly in your post.

Could you try again?

I don't know what's wrong with your computer that it keeps failing to load images, but it's tagged correctly and works fine on all my computers and others I've asked to look at it. You might want to have that looked at. Anyone else having problems?

Here are the direct links for the page and the image.  I'd upload it as an attachment bu it's too large.

https://ibb.co/HFLNxGr

https://i.ibb.co/7YxgRrG/Solar-System-Motion.gif
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 20, 2020, 12:00:12 PM
I see you pasted a link in your response but it doesn't render on the monitor.

Looks like you have it tagged incorrectly in your post.

Could you try again?

I don't know what's wrong with your computer that it keeps failing to load images, but it's tagged correctly and works fine on all my computers and others I've asked to look at it. You might want to have that looked at. Anyone else having problems?

Here are the direct links for the page and the image.  I'd upload it as an attachment bu it's too large.

https://ibb.co/HFLNxGr

https://i.ibb.co/7YxgRrG/Solar-System-Motion.gif
If you look at your link, it fails to include the [img] tag.

Can you post an animated gif that moves like the one I posted, but uses the correct Newton/Kepler/Einstein math?

Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: JSS on March 20, 2020, 12:06:00 PM
I see you pasted a link in your response but it doesn't render on the monitor.

Looks like you have it tagged incorrectly in your post.

Could you try again?

I don't know what's wrong with your computer that it keeps failing to load images, but it's tagged correctly and works fine on all my computers and others I've asked to look at it. You might want to have that looked at. Anyone else having problems?

Here are the direct links for the page and the image.  I'd upload it as an attachment bu it's too large.

https://ibb.co/HFLNxGr

https://i.ibb.co/7YxgRrG/Solar-System-Motion.gif
If you look at your link, it fails to include the [img] tag.

Can you post an animated gif that moves like the one I posted, but uses the correct Newton/Kepler/Einstein math?

My first post included the [img] tag but you said you couldn't see it, so I included the raw links for you.  Try copying and pasting them into your browser.  Just select the entire Solar-System-Motion URL with the mouse, press ctrl-c and then use ctrl-v to paste it into your web browsers navigation bar.

Here it is again.

https://i.ibb.co/7YxgRrG/Solar-System-Motion.gif

The image is an animated gif using the correct math.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 20, 2020, 12:09:14 PM
My first post included the tag but you said you couldn't see it, so I included the raw links for you.  Try copying and pasting them into your browser.  Just select the entire Solar-System-Motion URL with the mouse, press ctrl-c and then use ctrl-v to paste it into your web browsers navigation bar.

Here it is again.

https://i.ibb.co/7YxgRrG/Solar-System-Motion.gif

The image is an animated gif using the correct math.
That link directs me to a site containing possible malware and is blocked by my firewall.

Perhaps you can use the [img] and post it directly here so I can see it here in thread.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: Rama Set on March 20, 2020, 12:16:22 PM
I could see all of them just fine.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 20, 2020, 01:06:03 PM
I could see all of them just fine.
That's great.

Thank you for letting us know that.

Unfortunately for those keeping track in the thread, they cannot see, in direct response to the thread, an image of what is claimed to be represented.

So I am sure that would be of keen interest to some.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: JSS on March 20, 2020, 01:20:04 PM
That link directs me to a site containing possible malware and is blocked by my firewall.

Perhaps you can use the img and post it directly here so I can see it here in thread.

Thanks.

How ironic.  I only used that site because it's the same one your image was hosted at and I wanted to make sure you could see it.  I'm unclear why you can see the image you linked but not mine, they are both hosted at the same site. You should update your firewall, that site is no longer blocked on updated systems.

Anyway. Here is another copy hosted on imgur.  I posted both your picture and mine for comparison.

(https://i.imgur.com/mmOcUix.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/J9Q3kLR.gif)
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 20, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
That link directs me to a site containing possible malware and is blocked by my firewall.

Perhaps you can use the img and post it directly here so I can see it here in thread.

Thanks.

How ironic.  I only used that site because it's the same one your image was hosted at and I wanted to make sure you could see it.  I'm unclear why you can see the image you linked but not mine, they are both hosted at the same site. You should update your firewall, that site is no longer blocked on updated systems.

Anyway. Here is another copy hosted on imgur.  I posted both your picture and mine for comparison.

(https://i.imgur.com/mmOcUix.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/J9Q3kLR.gif)
Thanks you very much!

Can you verify the code utilized to generate your gif makes use of Newton/Kepler/Einstein math in its rendering of the image?

If so, do you know what forces where taken into account for the measurement of g, which bodies were responsible for generation of the g, and how long of a sequence the gif represents?

Further, do you know why your rendering only includes four bodies and not the rest?
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: JSS on March 20, 2020, 01:56:55 PM
That link directs me to a site containing possible malware and is blocked by my firewall.

Perhaps you can use the img and post it directly here so I can see it here in thread.

Thanks.

How ironic.  I only used that site because it's the same one your image was hosted at and I wanted to make sure you could see it.  I'm unclear why you can see the image you linked but not mine, they are both hosted at the same site. You should update your firewall, that site is no longer blocked on updated systems.

Anyway. Here is another copy hosted on imgur.  I posted both your picture and mine for comparison.

(https://i.imgur.com/mmOcUix.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/J9Q3kLR.gif)
Thanks you very much!

Can you verify the code utilized to generate your gif makes use of Newton/Kepler/Einstein math in its rendering of the image?

If so, do you know what forces where taken into account for the measurement of g, which bodies were responsible for generation of the g, and how long of a sequence the gif represents?

Further, do you know why your rendering only includes four bodies and not the rest?

1. The developers state it uses Newtonian n-body calculations.  I can verify they are doing this as I've been writing n-body simulators for 30 years and if they were not, their simulations would be wildly inaccurate.

2. Opening the simulator settings shows that G is set to 0.0000000000667 Newtons(m/kg)^2 which is also correct.
     The time frame is about 687 days, as that is how long Mars takes to orbit the sun once.

3. I only included the inner bodies in the gif as if I zoomed out to show the outer ones the inner ones would be too small to see.  You can't fit the whole solar system into a small gif due to the scale.  But the full simulation has all the planets, a hundred or so moons and several thousand asteroids and comets, I can watch it all.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: AATW on March 20, 2020, 03:45:29 PM
Unfortunately for those keeping track in the thread, they cannot see, in direct response to the thread, an image of what is claimed to be represented.
Yes they can. Your firewall or browser is blocking the imgbb site. I suggest you change the settings as that is not a malicious site.
I could see the image fine.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 20, 2020, 04:51:37 PM
Unfortunately for those keeping track in the thread, they cannot see, in direct response to the thread, an image of what is claimed to be represented.
Yes they can. Your firewall or browser is blocking the imgbb site. I suggest you change the settings as that is not a malicious site.
I could see the image fine.
Thanks, but he was able to post an image.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: totallackey on March 20, 2020, 04:58:59 PM

1. The developers state it uses Newtonian n-body calculations.  I can verify they are doing this as I've been writing n-body simulators for 30 years and if they were not, their simulations would be wildly inaccurate.

Can you clarify for the lay person exactly what this means?
2. Opening the simulator settings shows that G is set to 0.0000000000667 Newtons(m/kg)^2 which is also correct.
Fantastic.

Now, what portion of the galaxy (according to the developers) is most responsible the generation of and use of that figure you provided for this possibly accurate (but definitely incomplete) rendering?
The time frame is about 687 days, as that is how long Mars takes to orbit the sun once.
Thank you.
3. I only included the inner bodies in the gif as if I zoomed out to show the outer ones the inner ones would be too small to see.  You can't fit the whole solar system into a small gif due to the scale.  But the full simulation has all the planets, a hundred or so moons and several thousand asteroids and comets, I can watch it all.
Well, I find that interesting.

The gif I presented had all the bodies.

Plus, tell me what you find visually different between the way things are modeled in each.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: JSS on March 20, 2020, 05:47:18 PM

1. The developers state it uses Newtonian n-body calculations.  I can verify they are doing this as I've been writing n-body simulators for 30 years and if they were not, their simulations would be wildly inaccurate.

Can you clarify for the lay person exactly what this means?

If you want to understand Newtonian n-body simulations, the wiki page is a good read at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-body_simulation

An n-body simulation is just using Newtons formulas on a set of bodies, like the solar system or stars.  It's how most gravity simulations are done, including when NASA plans space missions.

2. Opening the simulator settings shows that G is set to 0.0000000000667 Newtons(m/kg)^2 which is also correct.
Fantastic.

Now, what portion of the galaxy (according to the developers) is most responsible the generation of and use of that figure you provided for this possibly accurate (but definitely incomplete) rendering?

The gravitational constant is measured in a variety of ways, none of which have anything to do with the galaxy.  It's simply a number that indicates how much matter is attracted to itself.   You can read about it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_constant

The time frame is about 687 days, as that is how long Mars takes to orbit the sun once.
Thank you.

You're welcome.

3. I only included the inner bodies in the gif as if I zoomed out to show the outer ones the inner ones would be too small to see.  You can't fit the whole solar system into a small gif due to the scale.  But the full simulation has all the planets, a hundred or so moons and several thousand asteroids and comets, I can watch it all.
Well, I find that interesting.

The gif I presented had all the bodies.

Plus, tell me what you find visually different between the way things are modeled in each.

The image you posted has shrunk the orbits of all the planets so they all fit into the animation.  In reality, the orbits of the outer plants is vastly larger than the inner ones.  So if you show them all, the inner planets are all shrunk down so small it's hard to make them out.

I included a screensho of the whole solar system, and you can see that it's very hard to see any detail about the inner planets without magnifying.  Plus, the orbits of the outer planets are so long compared to the inner planets that the animation doesn't look as good.

My images are accurate in size and orbital speed and so don't look as nice as the one you linked. That one is meant to show the concept and messes with both scales to fit everything into a cool looking fast moving image with over-sized planets so people can recognize the Sun and Saturn and Earth.
Title: Re: Just look at this...
Post by: stack on March 20, 2020, 08:42:38 PM
Now, what portion of the galaxy (according to the developers) is most responsible the generation of and use of that figure you provided for this possibly accurate (but definitely incomplete) rendering?

Your original question was:

The question is this...

Where is the model that actually does use Newton/Kepler/Einstein that I can see on my computer screen?

Seems like your OP has been satisfied several times now. Are you looking for something different now?