Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10620 on: July 02, 2023, 08:49:00 AM »
Here is an actual criminal defense attorney, reporting about the indictment.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10621 on: July 02, 2023, 10:04:35 AM »
Here is an actual criminal defense attorney, reporting about the indictment.


... Yeah....
You think they chaged him for EVERY document?  The total of documents found was 300 at his home in florida.
He got hit with 31 charges.

Whats your point?  That the one leaked bit isn't relevant?  Still got 37 charges.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10622 on: July 02, 2023, 04:35:40 PM »
Here is an actual criminal defense attorney, reporting about the indictment.


... Yeah....
You think they chaged him for EVERY document?  The total of documents found was 300 at his home in florida.
He got hit with 31 charges.

Whats your point?  That the one leaked bit isn't relevant?  Still got 37 charges.
It is relevant, given the AG included the leaked one in his written indictment. Why include such, "DAMNING PROOF!!!", in the indictment if not to include it as part of the "ACTUAL CHARGES!!!"?

God, what a weak piece of fluff reply.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10623 on: July 02, 2023, 05:26:52 PM »
Here is an actual criminal defense attorney, reporting about the indictment.


... Yeah....
You think they chaged him for EVERY document?  The total of documents found was 300 at his home in florida.
He got hit with 31 charges.

Whats your point?  That the one leaked bit isn't relevant?  Still got 37 charges.
It is relevant, given the AG included the leaked one in his written indictment. Why include such, "DAMNING PROOF!!!", in the indictment if not to include it as part of the "ACTUAL CHARGES!!!"?

God, what a weak piece of fluff reply.

I dunno, why are you trusting a liberal media source?
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10624 on: July 02, 2023, 10:38:53 PM »
I dunno, why are you trusting a liberal media source?
What I trust has nothing to do with the facts of the matter, the primary fact being Trump is not being charged with anything having to do with what the AG primarily highlights as a key piece of evidence.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10625 on: July 03, 2023, 02:42:54 AM »
I dunno, why are you trusting a liberal media source?
What I trust has nothing to do with the facts of the matter…
Yes, we get that.

Quote
…the primary fact being Trump is not being charged with anything having to do with what the AG primarily highlights as a key piece of evidence.
The recording goes to show that Trump knew that he had classified documents that he should not have had and how reckless he was with his handling of classified material.  It undermines his argument that he declassified everything before he left office. 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2023, 02:46:43 AM by markjo »
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10626 on: July 03, 2023, 08:32:24 PM »
I dunno, why are you trusting a liberal media source?
What I trust has nothing to do with the facts of the matter…
Yes, we get that.
The mouse in your pocket really doesn't constitute a "we." It does count as wee, though.

Quote
…the primary fact being Trump is not being charged with anything having to do with what the AG primarily highlights as a key piece of evidence.
The recording goes to show that Trump knew that he had classified documents that he should not have had and how reckless he was with his handling of classified material.  It undermines his argument that he declassified everything before he left office.
If it really did show that, then that would have been the actual charge.

Read the goddamn indictment, just like the wee gary wrote.

Reckless...LMMFAO...the only reckless thing here is your post.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10627 on: July 03, 2023, 09:21:44 PM »
I dunno, why are you trusting a liberal media source?
What I trust has nothing to do with the facts of the matter…
Yes, we get that.
The mouse in your pocket really doesn't constitute a "we." It does count as wee, though.

Quote
…the primary fact being Trump is not being charged with anything having to do with what the AG primarily highlights as a key piece of evidence.
The recording goes to show that Trump knew that he had classified documents that he should not have had and how reckless he was with his handling of classified material.  It undermines his argument that he declassified everything before he left office.
If it really did show that, then that would have been the actual charge.

Read the goddamn indictment, just like the wee gary wrote.

Reckless...LMMFAO...the only reckless thing here is your post.
You don't think 31 charges is enough?
It would be unfair for Trump to charge him for every single document.  He'd have over 100 counts.  No, instead they grouped them together.  Plus, I'm pretty sure they do not want to make public the times Trump showed the nuclear secrets document.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10628 on: July 04, 2023, 12:02:50 AM »
If it really did show that, then that would have been the actual charge.
There is something that you should understand about this sort of trial.  The prosecution has to be very careful about which documents they charge a defendant with.   The documents need to be secret enough to be worth charging him with, but not so secret that they can't show it to a jury.  That particular document may or may not fall within that rather narrow category.

Read the goddamn indictment, just like the wee gary wrote.
I did.  Charges like willful retention of national defense information are supported by the audio.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10629 on: July 04, 2023, 01:14:28 PM »
You don't think 31 charges is enough?
It would be unfair for Trump to charge him for every single document.  He'd have over 100 counts.  No, instead they grouped them together.  Plus, I'm pretty sure they do not want to make public the times Trump showed the nuclear secrets document.
What kind of prosecutor is not going to file a charge that actually includes the material for which you have the most damning evidence?

Again, it is a nothing story...written and commented on like it is truly SERIOUS by nothing entities...
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10630 on: July 04, 2023, 01:27:14 PM »
You don't think 31 charges is enough?
It would be unfair for Trump to charge him for every single document.  He'd have over 100 counts.  No, instead they grouped them together.  Plus, I'm pretty sure they do not want to make public the times Trump showed the nuclear secrets document.
What kind of prosecutor is not going to file a charge that actually includes the material for which you have the most damning evidence?

Again, it is a nothing story...written and commented on like it is truly SERIOUS by nothing entities...
The kind where the most damning evidence could start a war if leaked?
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10631 on: July 04, 2023, 02:01:33 PM »
What kind of prosecutor is not going to file a charge that actually includes the material for which you have the most damning evidence?
Finding boxes of classified national security documents in unsecured locations like a ballroom and a bathroom sounds pretty damning to me. 

Don’t forget that it’s not just about him having the documents, it’s about how he lied about giving all the documents back and trying to hide the ones that he didn’t.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2023, 02:05:32 PM by markjo »
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10632 on: July 04, 2023, 03:07:12 PM »
Again, it is a nothing story...written and commented on like it is truly SERIOUS by nothing entities...

Imagine thinking the indictment and trial of a former president is a nothing story.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10633 on: July 04, 2023, 09:45:11 PM »
What kind of prosecutor is not going to file a charge that actually includes the material for which you have the most damning evidence?
Finding boxes of classified national security documents in unsecured locations like a ballroom and a bathroom sounds pretty damning to me. 

Don’t forget that it’s not just about him having the documents, it’s about how he lied about giving all the documents back and trying to hide the ones that he didn’t.

Aside from the papers being legitimately located at Mar-a-Lago for many reasons, including a President ordering them to be there, there were no boxes of classified documents in the bathroom. They found the classified papers in the basement storage room.

https://www.axios.com/2023/06/10/trump-national-secrets-shower-classified-documents-indictment



This article and quote above mentions the boxes in the bathroom, but says the classified documents were in the basement.

The SCIF at Mar-a-Lago was in the basement, so it's obvious that someone was thoughtful enough to put the papers in a location that was most secure:

https://opoyi.com/usa/mar-a-lago-security-details-721546/



In the bathroom the boxes were unmarked, with some marked Mal Bedroom.

NY Mag - https://archive.fo/wIyba



Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_investigation_into_Donald_Trump%27s_handling_of_government_documents



KCRA - https://www.kcra.com/article/timeline-special-counsel-trump-classified-docs/44155950#



None of these articles indicate that classified documents were found in the bathroom as result of the raid.

It was later claimed that more classified documents were found in Trump's office area, but it is unclear how secure that was. Presumably the Secret Service would design it to be secure for sensitive papers to go between the basement and the president's/former president's office. It was not the bathroom where classified documents were found. So, you were lied to and your argument is based on lies.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2023, 10:34:28 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10634 on: July 04, 2023, 10:50:26 PM »
Aside from the papers being legitimately located at Mar-a-Lago for many reasons...
Sorry Tom, but there is no legitimate reason for private citizen Trump to have highly classified documents at his private residence.  Such documents are only available on a need to know basis, and private citizen Trump no longer has a need to know.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10635 on: July 04, 2023, 10:51:57 PM »
Aside from the papers being legitimately located at Mar-a-Lago for many reasons, including a President ordering them to be there, there were no boxes of classified documents in the bathroom. They found the classified papers in the basement storage room.

It was later claimed that more classified documents were found in Trump's office area, but it is unclear how secure that was. Presumably the Secret Service would design it to be secure for sensitive papers to go between the basement and the president's/former president's office. It was not the bathroom where documents were found. So, you were lied to and your argument is based on lies.

It's all good. The Republicans want their President to have unilateral control over sensitive documents with no oversight.




Even if they were in a bathroom, it's ok. Mar-a-lago is a very secure place.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/25/chinese-trespasser-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-resort-sentenced.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/08/26/russian-speaking-immigrant-allegedly-entered-mar-a-lago-using-fake-identity-met-with-trump-report-says/?sh=27fc31e4196a
https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/trespasser-caught-at-donald-trumps-mar-a-lago-estate-cops/
https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/man-breached-mar-a-lago-after-secret-service-warning-prosecutors-claim-16198928

We could let the Donald off as an ignorant buffoon when it comes to the whole document incident. Maybe, the fact that he's a traitorous piece of shit that allied himself with every one of our national adversaries and the fact that he left sensitive documents vulnerable like an idiot is just a coincidence.
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If the world is round, it means that you’re just an idiot who believes stupid crap on the internet.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10636 on: July 05, 2023, 10:18:06 AM »
The kind where the most damning evidence could start a war if leaked?
Uh, oh...a goddamn war...what will "we," (that is, the very ilk who absolutely CHEER FOR WAR, such as those ilk here)...the minions of Czar Bush the I, his cuz Billy, Czar Bush the II, "Oh!!! The WMD!!!" crowd...yeah, god forbid another war...

You are struggling to keep up, there LD...
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10637 on: July 05, 2023, 10:19:22 AM »
Aside from the papers being legitimately located at Mar-a-Lago for many reasons...
Sorry Tom, but there is no legitimate reason for private citizen Trump to have highly classified documents at his private residence.  Such documents are only available on a need to know basis, and private citizen Trump no longer has a need to know.
More nonsense like this^ should very quickly relegate you back to purgatory.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10638 on: July 05, 2023, 11:22:47 AM »
The kind where the most damning evidence could start a war if leaked?
Uh, oh...a goddamn war...what will "we," (that is, the very ilk who absolutely CHEER FOR WAR, such as those ilk here)...the minions of Czar Bush the I, his cuz Billy, Czar Bush the II, "Oh!!! The WMD!!!" crowd...yeah, god forbid another war...

You are struggling to keep up, there LD...

I didn't say it would be a war against America.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #10639 on: July 05, 2023, 05:01:32 PM »
Aside from the papers being legitimately located at Mar-a-Lago for many reasons...
Sorry Tom, but there is no legitimate reason for private citizen Trump to have highly classified documents at his private residence.  Such documents are only available on a need to know basis, and private citizen Trump no longer has a need to know.
More nonsense like this^ should very quickly relegate you back to purgatory.
Then by all means, please give me a good reason why private citizen Trump should have a need to know any of the classified documents that he illegally took from the White House.

BTW, if he really does think that he needs to know, then he should have applied for a waiver to keep his security clearance.  He did not do that, however.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.