61

Flat Earth Theory / Moon landing hoax question

« on: May 02, 2022, 12:38:25 AM »

For Moon landing hoax believers, why wouldn't Russia have faked a landing on the Moon before the USA did?

62

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS Photo From The Ground

« on: April 23, 2022, 01:34:03 AM »

Regardless of the shape of the earth, at ground level to chase the sun one full revolution you’d have to be traveling at approximately 1000 MPH for 24 hours. Doable for let’s say some hi-tech blimp I suppose. But now you have to do the same thing in just an hour and a half. On land, to make one full revolution in 90 minutes, you’d have to be going something like 16x faster, or around 16,000 MPH. Rise in altitude, farther to travel, more speed required. Let me know if my math is wrong.

Well, I am still researching this so I didn't want to prematurely mention it, but I suspect that there are multiple dirigibles. As they move around some can "go dark" and not be visible. The "space station" is not always visible. Even round-earthers agree that you can't see it in day time. Plus there is no need to fly the dirigibles on cloudy nights. So with only a few windows of opportunity (night time, clear skies, outside of a high-light metropolitan area) mixed with having the right equipment to even see the dirigible there are only a handful of people at any given time who can confirm its existence. This severely limits the times and places where the dirigible needs to appear and with multiple dirigibles the illusion can be easily achieved.

On top of all that, if anyone here were to get the proper equipment, go out into a desolate field on a clear night and look for the "space station" and fail to find it? You would 100% chalk it up to user error. Tell me you wouldn't.

With respect to your theory of multiple ISS dirigibles and your research that you are currently doing to look into this further, was curious to know of the specific research you are doing.

63

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS Photo From The Ground

« on: April 22, 2022, 10:02:52 PM »

With Scott Ferguson's observation, specialized software wasn't used to "see" the ISS. It was used to predict the position of the ISS.

Prove it.

Why are you asking me to prove it if I sent you that specific proof a couple of days ago?

64

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS Photo From The Ground

« on: April 22, 2022, 08:52:47 PM »

I can use specialised software to see much more than a magical space station. Be bold, name what you'd like to see. Specialised software will sort it out.

With Scott Ferguson's observation, specialized software wasn't used to "see" the ISS. It was used to predict the position of the ISS.

His observation and images of the ISS were taken using an eight-inch telescope and a video camera. There isn't anything of a magical space station (as you put it) or being bold and naming what you'd like to see.   

The magical part I think we are trying to figure out and question is Pongo's theory that the ISS is a dirigible attached with tether(s).

65

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS Photo From The Ground

« on: April 21, 2022, 05:17:09 AM »

Other considerations and critical thought questions to Pongo's above ISS dirigible attached to a tether theory would be (but not be limited to):

- are there NOTAM's (Notice to Airmen) issued to pilots around the world to keep clear of the tether(s) or when said tether(s) are in the general airspace that would be traveling thousands of miles per hour?
- are pilots in on the ISS tether conspiracy or are all flights secretly coordinated by the Elite's so that flights miss the tether(s)? If yes, are Elite's also trained in the field of air traffic control?
- are there any pictures of the ISS tether(s) that exist?
- are the tether(s) constructed of some sort of stealth material so that when they are travelling in the atmosphere, they are hidden from pilots as well as the billions of people on the ground?
- is there any evidence that such tether technology was tested before being used to secure the ISS dirigible?
- did the Elite(s) and only specific NASA employees make secret trips to the North Pole to test the technology or was the testing done elsewhere to simulate a North Pole like climate?
- what do you think the tether(s) are made of?
- when the thousands of mile long tether(s) are moving in the atmosphere at thousands of miles per hour, are there any design considerations that the developers would have had to consider with respect to the tether(s) making any unforeseen noise, howling, or whistling?
- how thick are the tether(s) and what would the specific properties of the tether(s) need to be to hold the ISS, to move at over 17,000 miles per hour, and withstand the rigors of environment for the many years the ISS has been in service?
- how did the ISS dirigible reach the atmosphere when it was originally launched to then be able to move at over 17,000 miles per hour with tether(s) attached? How and where was it launched and what propelled it to the velocity at over 17,000 miles per hour?       

66

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS Photo From The Ground

« on: April 21, 2022, 01:16:21 AM »

There’s a small problem with the contention that the space station is anchored to the North Pole under the flat earth theory.  That’s the fallacy of the earth’s upward acceleration to ‘simulate’ gravity.  In order for the space station to maintain a tension on a rope attached to the North Pole there would have to be a rocket engine on the space station to also maintain an upwards acceleration.  I’ve never seen any evidence of a rocket exhaust in any of the pictures.  Clearly there’s humans aboard the space station because I’ve personally heard them on the HAM radio frequencies.

By this logic birthday balloons would not stay afloat. The dirigible-station sails the upper bounds of the atmoplain like a ship anchored in a bay.

The difference being that in the ISS dirigible theory, the dirigible is traveling at over 17,000 miles per hour, is tied to tether(s) that would have to withstand 17,000 mph movement in upper atmosphere and the forces of the dirigible pulling in it, is being moved and steared by a force that would need to be defined, is attached to tethers that would have to be thousands and thousands of miles in length, and that would somehow need a plan for servicing said tether(s) if said tether(s) were to break or become damaged. Additionally, what would be the method of servicing such tethers without the billions of people on the ground knowing. Lastly, how would employees at NASA be mistaken that the ISS is orbiting the Earth vs. the ISS as a dirigible attached to tether(s)? They would be monitoring the ISS and not realize it's actually a dirigible with tether(s) attached?

67

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS Photo From The Ground

« on: April 20, 2022, 08:25:34 PM »

It may or may not surprise you to learn that many globe-earthers only come here to show flat-earthers how extremely tenuous their grasp of their own theories are despite how dogmatically they cling to them.

Coming from someone whose grasp of FE is non-existent and whose grasp of RE is somewhere between "poor" and "mediocre", that would be surprising. Nah, who am I kidding? You're exactly the type Pongo was talking about, and you just couldn't stop yourself from proving him right.

All that for a quick "UHHHH I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I???" quip.

I agree. But if you take a quick look at the wiki, it's steeped in discrediting theories not favorable to flat earth, obviously with some exceptions. Discredit NASA, discredit modern astronomy, discredit modern physics, etc. In other words, it cuts both ways regardless of FE or GE.

The Wiki addresses the most common arguments RE'ers come to us crying about. The only thing that "cuts both ways" here is your inability to ever be content. You pompously demand that we discredit your dogma, and then you complain that we humour you.

There are many FE concepts that you are absolutely correct; that RE'ers like myself don't grasp.

Pongo's suggestion of the ISS as a dirigible attached by a tether(s) to the North Pole is one example and it was fair for me to raise some initial feasibility questions.

This FE theory along with other concepts such as how the FE simplified animation model shows the Sun's spotlight projection as distorted on a flat earth model are FE theory items I don't have a grasp on but am trying to understand how they work.

68

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS Photo From The Ground

« on: April 16, 2022, 02:54:56 PM »

and hundreds of reasons to think it's not.

And yet you haven't mentioned one which stands up to any scrutiny at all.

If I declare something silly, for example, "The earth is round" then plug my ears and scream every time someone brings up evidence that contradicts my predetermined world-view, would you think I could say with integrity that there is no evidence that, "stands up to any scrutiny at all"?

It's honestly silly that we are still talking about this in 2022.

Well, agreed there. The idea that the ISS is anchored to the North Pole is obviously ludicrous. How long is this tether supposed to be? What material is it made of which could be strong enough at that length? Why can't it be observed? Surely people close to the Arctic Circle would be able to see it? You have made an argument from incredulity and then presented an alternative idea which is (in my view although it is admittedly subjective) significantly more incredible and provided zero evidence for it.

I can honestly say that I don't know the answers to your questions. However, that is a good thing because rather than Googling searching something like "What is the ISS wingspan" then running back here and blindly parroting the answer after giving myself a "well-earned" pat-on-the-back for my extensive "research", I can say that I do not know and it's an area for further study.

Some additional feasibility considerations or questions to look into regarding the tethered theory would be:

- does one side of the ISS blimp always face the arctic circle or does the ISS tend to roll or change pitch or attitude? If the ISS tends to roll or change pitch, than how would a tether work that is attached to the arctic circle? For example, if the ISS pitches, angles, or rolls than the tether would have to pass through the ISS blimp which would not be feasible. So, your research would have to look at how the ISS is oriented over long periods of time to see if a tether could be feasible.

- there are other man made objects which can be observed from the ground orbiting Earth at over 17,000 mph, including thousands of pieces of space junk. If these are also small blimps tied to tethers, how or what is controlling and coordinating the thousands of tethers so that they do not get tangled? How does this work?

- other considerations might be to investigate the technical feasibility of a tether and blimp moving through the atmosphere (even of thin) at over 17,000 mph while able to withstand massive aerodynamic and frictional forces over a period of decades. In the vacuum of space, an orbiting ISS would experience no such forces.

Given the above, are you also open to the possibility that the ISS could indeed be a space station that is orbiting about a spherical Earth in space?

69

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS 2031

« on: February 06, 2022, 10:02:42 PM »

So do you have any response to the more general problem I have highlighted.

Yes, but it's not one you'll like. I'll politely ask you to stay on topic, and if you want to discuss another topic, start a thread on it. This thread is about what is supposed to happen to the ISS in 2031, and a few people's outrage with the fact that we haven't yet built a network cutting-edge ISS tracking facilities along Pacific coastlines.

I didn't say the ground based (optical) telescope will enable one to see the supposed crash zone.

Luckily, I covered both cases.

You didn't cover both cases and you incorrectly assumed something I said. The ground based (optical) telescope with high performance digital camera (that I mentioned above) can indeed be used to observe the ISS, is used to observe space debris, and could be used to observe the ISS entering the Earth's atmosphere and it's start of breaking apart.

70

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS 2031

« on: February 06, 2022, 09:30:28 PM »

I don’t see how this is a problem.

It's a problem because many arguments you make are extremely poor, and they distract away from meaningful debate of the subjects. You make a half-arsed argument, it turns out it was completely inapplicable, and then you go "okay yeah so I obviously didn't mean what I said". It happens non-stop. Oh, you were joking. Oh, you were obviously exaggerating. Oh, okay, so maybe your argument doesn't make sense right now, but maybe it will at some other point?

Considering that you keenly hold others to high standards and expect them to get banned for making similarly poor arguments, it'd be nice if you could start practising what you preach.

I guess by high powered camera I was referring to a high performance digital camera attached to a ground based (optical) telescope.

What in Bambi's name are you talking about? RET or FET, no telescope or camera will enable you to see the supposed crash zone from a ground-based facility, nor will it enable you to reliably see the edge of the atmolayer.

I would admit that I don't know how much a setup like this would cost

Debating the cost of something that's completely unfeasible from an optics standpoint is rather meaningless.

I didn't say the ground based (optical) telescope will enable one to see the supposed crash zone. I said that "...the same could be used to track the ISS entering the Earth's atmosphere." This would be a starting point to putting "eyes" on the object in question (the ISS) by the FE community as it enters and begins to break up.

If this isn't done than the FE community would likely say something like, yes I observed something crashing but that it was NASA faking something coming from space; i.e. debris was dropped from a really high altitude weather balloon or a high altitude aircraft to make it appear as the ISS. So, we need to begin with eyes on the ISS entering and breaking up in the Earth's atmosphere as a starting point.

In terms of cost of equipment to track the ISS entering the Earth's atmosphere, I didn't suggest that it's a debatable item. I simply admitted that I didn't know how much a setup like this would cost.
 

71

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS 2031

« on: February 06, 2022, 08:39:00 PM »

"I offered just one example of a potential path to observe remotely, per my latest above post. There are likely more empirical ideas or solutions?... maybe continue to take this idea further or build off of this idea but I don't recommend to just give up or look for reasons not to try."

Ah, yes, the fantastic idea of "just find an idea". What would we do without you?

If you have nothing useful to say, please do not post in the upper. Your speciality is airing your insecurities in AR - stick to it.

"Maybe other solution ideas might include not being in the vicinity but using high powered camera / scopes to observe... if the ISS will enter the Earth's atmosphere in a specific trajectory, maybe position such observing to the west of trajectory that might be moving east. Maybe other ideas".

What the fuck is a "high powered camera"? You don't know much about photography/videography, do you?

And, again, responding to a call for specific ideas - what is it that you want us to be doing 9 years in advance of the event? - with "idk find ideas or something" is not very useful.

I guess by high powered camera I was referring to a high performance digital camera attached to a ground based (optical) telescope. With a wide field of view this could be a potential solution. I know that these types of technologies are used by NASA and other agencies to track space debris and so perhaps the same could be used to track the ISS entering the Earth's atmosphere as well. I would admit that I don't know how much a setup like this would cost, but to answer your above question, this is something that the FE community could at least start looking into now. If such a setup is feasible (including cost) than other work that could be done would be using it to perform preliminary observation (of the ISS orbiting or space debris) so that operators know how to use the device when the time comes.

Other question(s) would then be where exactly is NASA going to be putting the ISS in terms of it's re-entry 9 years from now so that the ISS entry could be observed with above device. I would concede that the answer to this question is obviously unknown and could prove to be a challenge unless NASA provides such re-entry information within a sufficient timespan for setup.

So, the above is one short term path that FE community could be looking into.

As also mentioned, the theory that the ISS is a projection (by some FE believers) could also be challenged or stress-tested in parallel to the above work. Where might such projections be located? Could such a projection be able to project crisp images upon a firmament dome, without any diffusion or scattering through the Earth's atmosphere? 

72

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS 2031

« on: February 06, 2022, 06:21:43 PM »

The answer to your question is in my above post and in my post before that one.

The only idea you've presented that's vaguely on-topic is a decade-long fundraiser in order to re-invent (for some reason?) a drone with a gopro strapped on to it. You did so immediately after we finished discussing why a fundraiser is unlikely to work. Please remember that you're not currently in AR - a modicum of effort is expected.

That wasn't the only idea I presented. I stated a couple of things:

"I offered just one example of a potential path to observe remotely, per my latest above post. There are likely more empirical ideas or solutions?... maybe continue to take this idea further or build off of this idea but I don't recommend to just give up or look for reasons not to try."

"Maybe other solution ideas might include not being in the vicinity but using high powered camera / scopes to observe... if the ISS will enter the Earth's atmosphere in a specific trajectory, maybe position such observing to the west of trajectory that might be moving east. Maybe other ideas".

So essentially, start to build a foundation for seedbed idea's as a starting point of how a team might be able to observe within the constraints of (to your point) cost of funding. TFES site was built from the efforts of your fellow TFES cohorts. It obviously took a ton of effort to get it to where it is today and so I have to assume that the folks and leaders that built this FE site could also participate in brainstorming methods and innovate around potentially clever ways to try and observe the event. 

I think that in parallel, I also said to challenge or stress test the notion of what some of your FE cohorts suggest (like Thork) which is that the ISS isn't even real but a projection. If you can prove that the ISS is a projection, than it's game over and no work needed to prove anything more.
"Where might such projection stations be located? How does such image projection technology work through our atmosphere and against a firmament dome without the projection image becoming diffused, scattered, or distorted?"

73

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS 2031

« on: February 06, 2022, 05:39:51 PM »

The event is 9 years away.

Indeed - which is why I asked what you're expecting us to be doing now:

Okay, give me an idea of what effort you expect us to be putting in 9 years in advance of an event outside of our control.

The answer to your question is in my above post and in my post before that one.

74

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS 2031

« on: February 06, 2022, 04:39:52 PM »

Well ok, this particular event might be difficult to observe because of its remoteness.

Did you notice that this is a recurring problem with you? You say something ridiculous, it's pointed out to you, and then you go "Well, okay, in this particular case you're right/I was joking/I was exaggerating, but in another scenario I'd be totally right!"

This thread is about the ISS's supposed spiral of death'n'doom in 2031. I propose that today, in 2022, FES shouldn't be doing much about it at all, due to a lack of credible alternatives.

Difficult to observe due to its remoteness doesn't mean not technically feasible.

I offered just one example of a potential path to observe remotely, per my latest above post.

There are likely more empirical ideas or solutions?... maybe continue to take this idea further or build off of this idea but I don't recommend to just give up or look for reasons not to try.

Try and look for ways to get creative such as idea's to observe without being in the vicinity. Brainstorm within the FE community, be resourcefull, innovate but don't recommend to look for excuses to say No, can't be done.

In "Behind the Curve" FE believers invested about $20,000 in a ring gyro. So, raising money within the FE community has been demonstrated as being possible.

Maybe other solution ideas might include not being in the general vicinity but using how powered cameras / scopes to observe... if the ISS will enter the Earth's atmosphere in a specific trajectory, maybe position such observing to the west of a trajectory that might be moving east. Maybe other ideas.

The event is 9 years away.

Also, if your FE cohorts, like Thork, are suggesting that the ISS is a projection, maybe stress test this notion. Where might such projection stations be located? How does such image projection technology work through our atmosphere without the projection image becoming diffused, scattered, or distorted?

75

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS 2031

« on: February 05, 2022, 12:25:38 AM »

You understand you can observe the ISS from the ground, right? You can see it with the naked eye exactly where and when it's said to be appearing and with some not that expensive equipment you can see the shape of it.

Oh, I can see their projections on the firmament, no problem at all.

Yeah, I don't understand why they don't just crash it on to a school or something either.

The earth is a big place. I'm sure the options aren't

1) Furthest place from any human likely to observe the death spiral
2) On a school

The US is currently at war with Syria. Why not hit a military installation with it? Would be a hell of a boost for the US troops.

If you believe that the ISS is a projection on the firmament (as you mention above), than over the next 9 years the FE community could form a game plan and execute a game plan to search for and prove the existence of such a projection station or projection stations.

If I were a FE'er and believed that the ISS was a projection onto the firmament, these are some questions I might ask to then go after:

- Is the fake ISS projection coming from a single projection device or multiple projection devices?
- If multiple projection devices, how do they work in concert with each other so seamlessly without multiple projections being layered on top of each other?
- Where might the projection station(s) be located? Take pictures of said projection station(s) as evidence.

Another idea:
- Consider working within the FE community to start a 7-8 year fundraising campaign to raise money to design and create a drone platform with 360 cameras (if I understand FE claims from previous postings, there may be 10's of millions of flat earth believers). Place said drone platform with cameras in the vicinity of where NASA says the ISS impact is to occur. If drone platform records debris impact than that would be consistent with what NASA is saying would have happened. If no impact is recorded, than FE can claim the ISS was indeed nothing more than a hoax.

(The design and creation of drone platform could be managed through various stage gate phases, from initial concept to full feasibility and could include various prototyping phases to refine and tune the design) 

76

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS 2031

« on: February 04, 2022, 09:03:13 PM »

Why are you assuming that the only method of observation would involve getting in a boat and being in the vicinity?

Because it is a very long swim.

Also, why are you referencing the Space Shuttle? That program ended in 2011 I believe. This is a discussion about the ISS.

I meant space station. Are you perfect? No. you don't even know what shape the earth is. 

Also, can't you read?

I think we should probably end this thread here.

This dead horse has been flogged enough.

The following are answers to your comments and inquiries:

1) You wouldn't need to be on a boat or swim to the vicinity to make an observation about the ISS breaking up.
2) No, I am not perfect, and neither are you. So, therefor you might be mistaken of the Earth being flat or the notion of a space travel conspiracy.
3) Yes, I can read, which is why I caught your error when you incorrectly referenced the Space Shuttle vs. the ISS.
4) Yes, we know what shape the Earth is. It is a sphere because it has been observed to have both curvature and be a sphere.

77

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS 2031

« on: February 04, 2022, 08:14:51 PM »

If NASA is saying that this event will happen in 2031, why not simply prepare for that event so that when said event is "supposed" to happen, than the FE community could use observation to disprove such an event?

Also

It's pretty obvious why they picked a remote point - there will be a fairly big degree of error with an unpowered object falling through the atmosphere.

So GoldCashew wants me to get in a boat and be in the vicinity when a million pieces of space shuttle come reigning down with a "fairly big degree of error".

How about I don't volunteer for this suicide mission, thank you? 

Why are you assuming that the only method of observation would involve getting in a boat and being in the vicinity?

Also, why are you referencing the Space Shuttle? That program ended in 2011 I believe. This is a discussion about the ISS.

78

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: ISS 2031

« on: February 04, 2022, 02:39:04 PM »

But the death spiral will be observable. Come on, you Zetetic lot, I'm sure you could hire a pedalo and go watch.

Yeah, they've made it real easy for us. 

In a report this week, the US space agency said the ISS would crash into a part of the ocean known as Point Nemo.

This is the point furthest from land on planet Earth, also known as the spacecraft cemetery.

EDIT: And why would there be a death spiral at all if it's just a studio somewhere?!

CGI is cheap. They don't even need a fireworks display to cover the tracks of this hoax.

Thork,

If NASA is saying that this event will happen in 2031, why not simply prepare for that event so that when said event is "supposed" to happen, than the FE community could use observation to disprove such an event?

Such a documented observation could then be placed into TFES Wiki as evidence to support the belief in a space travel conspiracy.

Why pre-emptively say "fake / CGI" now.... why not use empirical methods like observation to simply disprove at the time the "supposed" event is to occur?

79

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Found a fully working flat earth model?

« on: February 02, 2022, 12:13:49 AM »

Please find the sun_at_the_equator image hereby.

If you prefer, it's relatively easy to make these graphs yourself:
- generate the scene as the globe model describes (ie, an earth, a sun and straight lightrays from the sun to the earth)
- express every element in celestial coordinates (latitude, longitude, distance from the center of the earth)
- now draw (lat/long) as an AE projection (this creates a disc) and insert this disc at height `distance` in the cylinder.
Doing this for all elements in the scene will create the pictures i've made.

Or if you like hard math, transform the line-equation this way, and you'll have the equation for lightrays in the flat-earth universe.

In your above image at the left, the Sun's rays project light in only a "downward" direction from a single point.

Would not a spherical Sun emit rays in all directions though? If this be the case, than wouldn't you have rays projecting sideways  from the Sun and then bending downwards (due to bendy light) towards the flat Earth surface that you show as not lit?

Hi. I think you may have skipped over the above inquiry.

Was curious to get your take.

80

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Found a fully working flat earth model?

« on: February 01, 2022, 10:37:19 PM »

Please find the sun_at_the_equator image hereby.

If you prefer, it's relatively easy to make these graphs yourself:
- generate the scene as the globe model describes (ie, an earth, a sun and straight lightrays from the sun to the earth)
- express every element in celestial coordinates (latitude, longitude, distance from the center of the earth)
- now draw (lat/long) as an AE projection (this creates a disc) and insert this disc at height `distance` in the cylinder.
Doing this for all elements in the scene will create the pictures i've made.

Or if you like hard math, transform the line-equation this way, and you'll have the equation for lightrays in the flat-earth universe.

In your above image at the left, the Sun's rays project light in only a "downward" direction from a single point.

Would not a spherical Sun emit rays in all directions though? If this be the case, than wouldn't you have rays projecting sideways  from the Sun and then bending downwards (due to bendy light) towards the flat Earth surface that you show as not lit?