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Messages - GoldCashew

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161
Flat Earth Community / Re: More fake moon landing proof.
« on: May 10, 2020, 10:30:51 PM »
It has been suggested many many times to flat earthers that if they doubt the existence of the ISS (due to the belief that space travel is a conspiracy and a hoax) that they could simply observe the ISS through high powered telescopes.

I have observed the ISS many times through my father's telescope, whom is an amateur astronomer. One can go online to see exactly when the ISS will orbit overhead and observe first hand.

Given this, i don't understand why this opportunity to observing the ISS first hand seems to always be glossed over by flat Earthers.

It's like there tons and tons of discussion about government cover-,ups and space travel being faked when all a flat earther has to do is what I suggest above.

162
Hi,

Would be curious to know if there has been any correlation study done or data gathering excercise to track the growth (or decline) in the belief of the earth as being a flat disk vs. Time, starting before the age of the internet and going up to this year.

My prediction would be that believing in a flat disk earth as well as the space travel conspiracy that goes with it would be:
- very small, say in the 1980's and into the 1990's
- with the age of the internet booming in the 1990's and into the 2000's the uptick would still be relatively small
- into the mid 2000's to now would see a huge uptick and exponential growth.

I believe that people who have come to believe in the existence of a flat earth disk as well as the space travel conspiracy get to this point because:
● they tend to more easily fall into the internet rabbit holes of information and conspiracy theory's, unable to have sufficient insight into what's real VS. not real. The advent of the internet magnifies this.
● misinformation on the internet yields becomming misinformed into believing that they're on the forefront of self-awarenes and onto a big discovery.

It would be interesting to also see this data expressed across age groups, where I would predict that younger people (say in their early 20's to mid 30's) would comprise the majority of the flat disk belief.

Thank you.

163
I didn't say that it was proof. I said that it was a coincidence. Who knew that the managers merely had to tell the scientists to "work harder!" and the nation's rocket issues would be resolved and space breakthroughs would occur?


Tom,

Your desperately clinging on to the space travel conspiracy hoax by using coincidences as one way to explain a belief.

Also, why is it so hard for you to appreciate or accept going from technological failure to sudden success, without going down the hoax rabbit hole? I dont really understand because going from failure to success is how technology breakthroughs occur.

Your Wiki talks about the importance of knowing as opposed to believing. But then, your entire above argument is based on believing and not knowing.

It's weird how you think because in some threads you dive deep into and give or site examples or scientific experiments to make an argument, which I think is great. But in other threads like this one, it's like you become a different person and go from scientific experimentation to ridiculous speculations with sarcastic storytelling. It's really bizarre.

164
Following WWII the race to space lasted for 12 years, with one infamous failure and rocket disaster after another. During the space race there was a lot of pressure for the US to get a satellite, and therefore ICBMs, into orbit, by all levels of public and government. It was the next step of defense and nuclearization, which would establish a country as a super power.

Don't you think it's a coincidence that despite the many years of hardships to get to space, that within three months of the USSR claiming to have launched Sputnik into orbit, the US claimed to put a satellite into orbit as well?

Quote
Isn't it unlikely that, with all these different countries that dislike eachother that all went to space, they all agree to keep a secret by the US government?

You would be assuming that they actually have substantial space programs and are not simply outsourcing to NASA's contractors for space activities, like putting up satellites. SpaceX says that they put up satellites for Argentina, Canada, etc. Some countries or companies may 'design' what they want in space, and claim that those facilities are part of their 'space program', but there are really only a few places where rockets are launched from on Earth, and which are controlled by governmental organizations. There are also UN oversight organizations that were specifically set up during the space race era to help developing countries with their space programs. They had already known beforehand that countries wanted to go to space.

Also, some of the bigger countries like Japan who would perform more extensive activities like sending probes to orbit the Moon and such would usually always have a disclaimer in their information "*in joint collaboration with NASA." It is possible that it is different now, but it was that way for a long time.


Tom,

It's a fallacy to use coincidences and the workings together of nations in collaborative manners to achieve goals as a reason for a conspiracy or a hoax to exist. It goes against the very grain of how the Wiki talks about scientific observation and knowing as the basis for critical thought.

First, nations collaborate and partner in many different ways all the time to achieve goals. Airbus is an aircraft partnership amongst many different European Nations. It doesn't mean that travel on an Airbus is CGI or a hoax. This is just one example.

Second, there used to be a race in the 1960's towards being the first to offer supersonic transport to passengers. European countries were developing the Concorde. USA was developing the SST. And Russia did a sort of copy job on the Concorde, calling theirs the Concordia. The SST never panned out due to things like cost. Russia did complete their Concordia but abandoned the project due to catastrophic failures. And lastly, you had the Concorde which continued to fly up through the new millennia, but ultimately cancelled due to cost. Does this supersonic race to the sky mean that the Concorde / supersonic passenger travel was a hoax? No.

Third, you seem to also be saying that because there were many failures with rocket launches but then suddenly success is a reason to doubt space travel. This is both lazy science and a lazy argument. The Wright Brothers failed and tweaked airplane design many times before they got it right. In the early days when the Wright Brothers used to demonstrate their powered Wright Flyers to the US army, citizens would often laugh in disbelief, many also thinking it was a hoax until they saw it with their own eyes. And what about Thomas Edisons work to perfect the light bulb. Many many prototype trials and failures before getting it right. It doesnt mean that the light bulb is some sort of hoax.

Technological breakthroughs happen because of failures, learnings from failures, and then improvements that are made. This is technical evolution or technology evolving to become better, more reliable. Again, it's a lazy argument to attibute failures and then sudden technological success as the basis for a hoax.

Your arguments of coincidences, sudden breakthroughs, and nations collaborating as a reason to believe in the space travel conspiracy is why the Flat Earth conspiracy belief is so lacking in credibility.

165
Hi,

Was curious to know why you ascribe legitimacy to a guy or an article talking about a guy who says he faked NASA images VS. the thousands and thousands of pictures taken from space from the hundreds of astronauts (scientists, teachers, etc..) whom say they have been to space and took the pictures?
First, there slightly over 500 people claiming to have been in space.

Of those, only thirty have ever been claimed to have traveled farther away from the earth than the ISS.
If your looking at this without applying any confirmation bias, how do you know that one is more legitimate than the other?

Why is it not reasonable to ascribe legitimacy the other way around, i.e. to the hundreds of astronauts whom say they have been to space with their pictures of space?

Thanks.
I already admit confirmation bias.

You show confirmation bias yourself, when you type "hundreds of astronauts...with their pictures of space," with absolutely no facts to back to back that statement up.

Most RE-adherents won't though, so its nothing new.

Hi,

In the Flat Earth Theory forum section, I posted a recommendation for Flat Earthers to "stress test" their theory that Space Travel is a conspiracy hoax during the May 27 manned SpaceX launch to the ISS.

This would present Flat Earthers with a golden opportunity to observe the launch, and track the trajectory and telemetry of said launch, including tracking each of the stages of the rocket with Dragon capsule all the way to ISS.

Flat Earthers contend that rockets launch but then ditch in the ocean thus, never reaching space. This could be an opportunity to track everything from start to finish to test against your theory. Additionally, if space travel is a hoax or a conspiracy and a Dragon capsule suddenly appeared to land on Earth, where did it originally come from, if not from space? These are examples of things Flat Earth members could try and observe to test their theory.

Flat Earthers could even use high powered telescopes to track the ISS object orbiting overhead.

See details in that particular thread.

Thank you.

166
Suggestions & Concerns / ANSWERS TO YOUR MANY QUESTIONS Sticky
« on: May 04, 2020, 08:52:46 AM »
Hi,

I realize that within each Forum section there is a READ BEFORE POSTING sticky.

In order to help mitigate the new folks that ask common questions or questions already answered in the Wiki, just wondering if either the title of the sticky should be tweaked (i.e. ANSWERS TO MANY QUESTIONS HERE / READ BEFORE POSTING) or a second sticky added that says something like ANSWERS TO MANY QUESTIONS HERE with the hyperlinks.

Tweaking the title of the sticky a little might help a little to mitigate recurring questions.

I think the overall forum site is well organized with a lot of great info. and so just offering up some thoughts that could help further fine-tune.

Thanks.

167
Okay, so we agree that the composite image is not evidence that NASA faked space images, precisely because you originally implied that the person faked the images of space, and it was then shown that this is false, and you effectively conceded this point above.
The guy writes he "faked," an image.

The article describes how he faked it.

This demonstrates NASA releases faked images and one process for how they fake them.
[/quote]


Hi,

Was curious to know why you ascribe legitimacy to a guy or an article talking about a guy who says he faked NASA images VS. the thousands and thousands of pictures taken from space from the hundreds of astronauts (scientists, teachers, etc..) whom say they have been to space and took the pictures?

If your looking at this without applying any confirmation bias, how do you know that one is more legitimate than the other?

Why is it not reasonable to ascribe legitimacy the other way around, i.e. to the hundreds of astronauts whom say they have been to space with their pictures of space?

Thanks.

168
Flat Earth Investigations / A flaw with the Flat Earth model?
« on: April 29, 2020, 03:11:50 AM »
Hi,

No matter where one is located on Earth, the same round side of the observed globe Moon always faces the observer.

In a Flat Earth model, the Sun and globe Moon orbit above the Flat Earth, as shown in the Wiki. The Sun And Moon are also much much closer to the Earth VS. the RE model.

For the Flat Earth model, if I am say in South America/ Lower South America, Africa/ South Africa, or Australia, it would appear that if I were to look up at the Moon, I would potentially observe the "back side" or "bottom side" of the globe Moon.

Yet, I have been to Cap Town-South Africa, Brazil, and Australia and observe the same side of the globe Moon with my telescope as I do when I am in the northern part of the USA, like Chicago. This observation is a factual observation by anyone else on Earth looking up at the Moon.

So, I am curious as to how seeing the same globed side "face" of the Moon would be possible in the FE model, no matter if one is located in Chicago, Australia, or South Africa?

I've read the Wiki several times and could not find any info. that helps answer the above question.

Thank you.

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