[Lord Dave]

No, I expect that he didn't want people to die. That's usually pretty helpful. Now, I won't deny. Can pork be cooked safely today? Sure. Can a rat? Sure. That doesn't mean I'm going to. Ultimately it comes down to the following: There are all kinds of explanations for the Kosher Laws. But the ultimate one

 is the following. GOD TOLD US TO. End of story. SHUT UP AND DO IT. He didn't tell the Goy to do it. He told us. So there you are.

So you are the kind that likes being told what to do. Well, you ought to do just fine in North Korea.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

No, I expect that he didn't want people to die. That's usually pretty helpful. Now, I won't deny. Can pork be cooked safely today? Sure. Can a rat? Sure. That doesn't mean I'm going to. Ultimately it comes down to the following: There are all kinds of explanations for the Kosher Laws. But the ultimate one

 is the following. GOD TOLD US TO. End of story. SHUT UP AND DO IT. He didn't tell the Goy to do it. He told us. So there you are.

So you are the kind that likes being told what to do. Well, you ought to do just fine in North Korea.

See, but at least Jews ask the questions. If there are no answers, then we shut up and do what we're told. You wouldn't even ask, as I recall your original post saying. Not very creative, are you? Have a look-see at the Talmud sometime, and observe the debates that go on regarding how to obey the Torah. We know we have to obey because God said so, but we ALSO want to know why he said so. You've already admitted you would never even ask the question. We admit that we WILL follow, but we still seek to know why. Enjoy North Korea.

[markjo]

Actually, you've got that completely wrong. Jews could care less about the rewards. Some Jews don't even believe in an Afterlife.

If there is no afterlife, then what's the point in pleasing God in this one?

A pig can be cooked safely. But should it be? No.

Yes, it should.

It is still an unhealthy animal to eat because of what it eats.

Farm raised pigs are fed much healthier diets than wild pigs.

And God at present doesn't command us to kill anyone. We are forced to kill Arabs because they want to destroy us.

Apparently God doesn't want you to settle your differences with them eiter. 

[Tau]

Actually, you've got that completely wrong. Jews could care less about the rewards. Some Jews don't even believe in an Afterlife.

If there is no afterlife, then what's the point in pleasing God in this one?

Same reason some people will go through their entire life obsessed with pleasing their father. It's a half neurosis and half the misconception that his opinion matters.

[DuckDodgers]

Why is it okay to eat cow when they ingest their own waste quite frequently while grazing?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

You see, God gave us Mitzvot (look that one up; it means Commandments, but the Hebrew word carries a much stronger connotation that I can't quite explain. However, look it up under the singular, Mitzvah) is not for a better life when we die. It is for a better life HERE. Judaism is a religion of the Here and Now. We could ultimately care less for what happens when we die. Even though a lot of Jews do believe in an Afterlife (I would say a majority), there are plenty who don't, and that is considered well within the norm for Jewish thinking.

The Torah says absolutely NOTHING about an Afterlife. The Writings don't say much about it except to talk about Sheol, the abode of the dead, wherein there is no feeling at all. There are some references that POSSIBLY point to an Afterlife concept in the Prophets.

Whether I personally believe in an Afterlife is beside the point. The point that I am making is not what I think. It doesn't matter what I think. It matters how I behave. Even if I don't believe in an Afterlife, or if I do, I am not going to change my behaviour one iota. I shall live as best a Jewish life I may. God said it, I do it, and try to find out WHY he said it. That is the nature of Judaism. If you have four Jews in a room you have five opinions. A joke, of course. But there is some truth to it. We are argumentative little fuckers, I'll say that much for us.

[Lord Dave]

What's the point of asking why if you don't change the law when the why becomes irrelevant?

Look at blood transfusions.  Why was it forbidden?  Because it could kill both of you since no one knew about needles or blood types and blood diseases.  Can we do it safely now?  Absolutely.  So the why has become irrelevant and thus the law needs to be changed.  But it never will.  Hence why Jews live in such a primitive time compared to Christians.

[Rushy]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/10/shlomo-sand-i-wish-to-cease-considering-myself-a-jew

I am aware of living in one of the most racist societies in the western world. Racism is present to some degree everywhere, but in Israel it exists deep within the spirit of the laws. It is taught in schools and colleges, spread in the media, and above all and most dreadful, in Israel the racists do not know what they are doing and, because of this, feel in no way obliged to apologise. This absence of a need for self-justification has made Israel a particularly prized reference point for many movements of the far right throughout the world, movements whose past history of antisemitism is only too well known.

I am often ashamed of Israel, particularly when I witness evidence of its cruel military colonisation, with its weak and defenceless victims who are not part of the “chosen people”

Fascinating. It's like he is referring directly to Yaakov.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

What's the point of asking why if you don't change the law when the why becomes irrelevant?

Look at blood transfusions.  Why was it forbidden?  Because it could kill both of you since no one knew about needles or blood types and blood diseases.  Can we do it safely now?  Absolutely.  So the why has become irrelevant and thus the law needs to be changed.  But it never will.  Hence why Jews live in such a primitive time compared to Christians.

Ah, what? Maybe you are thinking of Jehovah's Witnesses? Jews take blood. I took 2 full transfusions a few years ago. And JWs don't refuse for the reasons you suggest. they refuse because God ordered that we are not to eat blood, and they take that order to the extreme of not taking blood into the body in ANY way. You need to get your facts straight, Dude.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/10/shlomo-sand-i-wish-to-cease-considering-myself-a-jew

I am aware of living in one of the most racist societies in the western world. Racism is present to some degree everywhere, but in Israel it exists deep within the spirit of the laws. It is taught in schools and colleges, spread in the media, and above all and most dreadful, in Israel the racists do not know what they are doing and, because of this, feel in no way obliged to apologise. This absence of a need for self-justification has made Israel a particularly prized reference point for many movements of the far right throughout the world, movements whose past history of antisemitism is only too well known.

I am often ashamed of Israel, particularly when I witness evidence of its cruel military colonisation, with its weak and defenceless victims who are not part of the “chosen people”

Fascinating. It's like he is referring directly to Yaakov.

Evidently, he is a very poorly educated Jew. I didn't even bother reading the whole article. The fact is, Israel doesn't colonise anything. There isn't a single Jew in all of Gaza. NOT ONE. So quit whining. 85% of Israeli Jews have been polled, and have made clear that they would love to have a "Palestinian" State living in security next to Israel,if it would bring peace, which is an opinion I clearly do not share, because I don't believe it would bring peace.

Anybody who lives in Israel and can still say the things this guy does is clearly a fucking schmuck. The only reason "Palestinians" don't have a State is because they don't want one. In 2001 Ehud Barak offered Arafat 96% of the West Bank, ALL of the Gaza Strip, AND Arab East Jerusalem for a capital. Arafat started the 2nd Intifada instead. "Palestinians" would rather kill Jews then govern themselves.

Israel LEFT the Gaza in 2005. Completely left it, with a functioning agricultural industry. Hamas came to power in '07 and promptly destroyed the agricultural industry to use its equipment for weapons. Israel allowed imports to the Gaza of cement and like materials to build schools and homes. Instead of doing either, they built tunnels into Israel to kidnap and kill Israelis.

So, no, this man has no credibility. He's a fucking schmuck who has his head so far up his own ass that he can taste his own breakfast when it comes out about teatime. I'm not impressed.

[Tau]

People who disagree with me are evil

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

People who disagree with me are evil

Prove me wrong, or shut your pie-hole.

But my response will be later. I have Evening Prayer to get through yet.

[Rushy]

Evidently, he is a very poorly educated Jew. I didn't even bother reading the whole article. The fact is, Israel doesn't colonise anything. There isn't a single Jew in all of Gaza. NOT ONE. So quit whining. 85% of Israeli Jews have been polled, and have made clear that they would love to have a "Palestinian" State living in security next to Israel,if it would bring peace, which is an opinion I clearly do not share, because I don't believe it would bring peace.

Anybody who lives in Israel and can still say the things this guy does is clearly a fucking schmuck. The only reason "Palestinians" don't have a State is because they don't want one. In 2001 Ehud Barak offered Arafat 96% of the West Bank, ALL of the Gaza Strip, AND Arab East Jerusalem for a capital. Arafat started the 2nd Intifada instead. "Palestinians" would rather kill Jews then govern themselves.

Israel LEFT the Gaza in 2005. Completely left it, with a functioning agricultural industry. Hamas came to power in '07 and promptly destroyed the agricultural industry to use its equipment for weapons. Israel allowed imports to the Gaza of cement and like materials to build schools and homes. Instead of doing either, they built tunnels into Israel to kidnap and kill Israelis.

So, no, this man has no credibility. He's a fucking schmuck who has his head so far up his own ass that he can taste his own breakfast when it comes out about teatime. I'm not impressed.

Then why does a very well known philosopher sincerely believe that, after visiting Israel, what they're doing is much worse than Apartheid South Africa?

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2014/8/8/noam_chomsky_what_israel_is_doing

Many reasons. Take, say, the term "apartheid." In the Occupied Territories, what Israel is doing is much worse than apartheid. To call it apartheid is a gift to Israel, at least if by "apartheid" you mean South African-style apartheid. What’s happening in the Occupied Territories is much worse. There’s a crucial difference. The South African Nationalists needed the black population. That was their workforce. It was 85 percent of the workforce of the population, and that was basically their workforce. They needed them. They had to sustain them. The bantustans were horrifying, but South Africa did try to sustain them. They didn’t put them on a diet. They tried to keep them strong enough to do the work that they needed for the country. They tried to get international support for the bantustans.

The Israeli relationship to the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is totally different. They just don’t want them. They want them out, or at least in prison. And they’re acting that way. That’s a very striking difference, which means that the apartheid analogy, South African apartheid, to the Occupied Territories is just a gift to Israeli violence. It’s much worse than that. If you look inside Israel, there’s plenty of repression and discrimination. I’ve written about it extensively for decades. But it’s not apartheid. It’s bad, but it’s not apartheid. So the term, I just don’t think is applicable.

Israel has—Israeli experts have calculated in detail exactly how many calories, literally, Gazans need to survive. And if you look at the sanctions that they impose, they’re grotesque. I mean, even John Kerry condemned them bitterly. They’re sadistic. Just enough calories to survive. And, of course, it is partly metaphoric, because it means just enough material coming in through the tunnels so that they don’t totally die. Israel restricts medicines, but you have to allow a little trickle in. When I was there right before the November 2012 assault, visited the Khan Younis hospital, and the director showed us that there’s—they don’t even have simple medicines, but they have something. And the same is true with all aspects of it. Keep them on a diet, literally. And the reason is—very simple, and they pretty much said it: "If they die, it’s not going to look good for Israel. We may claim that we’re not the occupying power, but the rest of the world doesn’t agree. Even the United States doesn’t agree. We are the occupying power. And if we kill off the population under occupation, not going to look good." It’s not the 19th century, when, as the U.S. expanded over what’s its national territory, it pretty much exterminated the indigenous population. Well, by 19th century’s imperial standards, that was unproblematic. This is a little different today. You can’t exterminate the population in the territories that you occupy. That’s the dovish position, Weissglas. The hawkish position is Eiland, which you quoted: Let’s just kill them off.

It's a fascinating geopolitical situation.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Well, your point is? Noam Chomsky is a self-hating Jew. Has been for years. He is a RADICAL leftist. And the argument "very well known philosopher" sounds like an Appeal to Authority to me. Not a very good approach to take. And yes, if you had people who have proven that they will kill you the moment they get a chance, I would put them on a diet too. I am aware of the accusation. I am also aware of how untrue MOST accusations like that are. Of course, Mr. Chomsky offers no evidence for his claims, but simply claims that this is occurring.

Telling me anything about John Kerry is irrelevant. Kerry is an idiot. He got us into this mess in the first place. The United States should be incinerating Arabs, not rebuilding fucking Gaza, for God's sake!

So, when Mr. Chomsky can back up what he is saying with cold hard numbers directly from Israeli Government figures (NOT the UN, which we have established is NOT a credible organisation, and should be abolished forthwith as an eminent threat to world peace), then MAYBE I'll take the time for a second look.

[Rushy]

Well, your point is? Noam Chomsky is a self-hating Jew. Has been for years. He is a RADICAL leftist. And the argument "very well known philosopher" sounds like an Appeal to Authority to me. Not a very good approach to take. And yes, if you had people who have proven that they will kill you the moment they get a chance, I would put them on a diet too. I am aware of the accusation. I am also aware of how untrue MOST accusations like that are. Of course, Mr. Chomsky offers no evidence for his claims, but simply claims that this is occurring.

Telling me anything about John Kerry is irrelevant. Kerry is an idiot. He got us into this mess in the first place. The United States should be incinerating Arabs, not rebuilding fucking Gaza, for God's sake!

So, when Mr. Chomsky can back up what he is saying with cold hard numbers directly from Israeli Government figures (NOT the UN, which we have established is NOT a credible organisation, and should be abolished forthwith as an eminent threat to world peace), then MAYBE I'll take the time for a second look.

So, that's your defense? Everyone who says bad things about Israel must be stupid because Israel is a shining beacon of perfection? Even worse, the only facts you'll accept are ones that come straight from Israel? Did you know courts ask defendants for a plea of guilty/not guilty and they normally plea not guilty? It is because people tend not to incriminate themselves.

I'm sorry, I thought I was having a rational discussion. I'll leave you to yourself, then.

[Vindictus]

lol UN as a threat to world peace. That's a new level of wacko. The UN just loves throwing their military weight around.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Well, your point is? Noam Chomsky is a self-hating Jew. Has been for years. He is a RADICAL leftist. And the argument "very well known philosopher" sounds like an Appeal to Authority to me. Not a very good approach to take. And yes, if you had people who have proven that they will kill you the moment they get a chance, I would put them on a diet too. I am aware of the accusation. I am also aware of how untrue MOST accusations like that are. Of course, Mr. Chomsky offers no evidence for his claims, but simply claims that this is occurring.

Telling me anything about John Kerry is irrelevant. Kerry is an idiot. He got us into this mess in the first place. The United States should be incinerating Arabs, not rebuilding fucking Gaza, for God's sake!

So, when Mr. Chomsky can back up what he is saying with cold hard numbers directly from Israeli Government figures (NOT the UN, which we have established is NOT a credible organisation, and should be abolished forthwith as an eminent threat to world peace), then MAYBE I'll take the time for a second look.

So, that's your defense? Everyone who says bad things about Israel must be stupid because Israel is a shining beacon of perfection? Even worse, the only facts you'll accept are ones that come straight from Israel? Did you know courts ask defendants for a plea of guilty/not guilty and they normally plea not guilty? It is because people tend not to incriminate themselves.

I'm sorry, I thought I was having a rational discussion. I'll leave you to yourself, then.

Well, lets see. Israel as an Occupying Power allows the Occupied to sue in its own Supreme Court. Try that in Tibet. Israel as an Occupying Power routinely reviews the actions of its military when they receive reports of malfeasance. See if that happens in Tibet. In the Occupied Territories, you can publicly criticise Israeli leaders. Try doing that in Tibet.

When there is  a war on, Hamas aims to kill civilians. The IDF tries to minimise civilian casualties with leaflet drops, phone calls, text messages, roof-knocking, etc.

Shall I go on?

lol UN as a threat to world peace. That's a new level of wacko. The UN just loves throwing their military weight around.

The UN is a threat to world peace because everybody wants to go through the fucking Security Council which can't get out of its own way, and through the joke of a human rights council (remember such laudatory members as China, Syria, Cuba, Saudi Arabia...) to get anything done. By then its too late. People are dead, and raped and God knows what else. The UN hasn't preserved the peace once in the last 30-40 years. All they have done is further inflamed situations. They must be abolished forthwith, and every person on their payroll who does not automatically agree should be arrested for crimes against the people.

[markjo]

Well, lets see. Israel as an Occupying Power allows the Occupied to sue in its own Supreme Court.

Just out of curiosity, how many times has Israel lost one of these supreme court cases?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

You would not believe, but MANY times. I would direct you to the website of the Supreme Court of the State of Israel.

http://elyon1.court.gov.il/eng/home/index.html

I would say about half the time of the cases I've reviewed, the Government and/or military have lost.

[Vindictus]

The UN is a threat to world peace because everybody wants to go through the fucking Security Council which can't get out of its own way, and through the joke of a human rights council (remember such laudatory members as China, Syria, Cuba, Saudi Arabia...) to get anything done. By then its too late. People are dead, and raped and God knows what else. The UN hasn't preserved the peace once in the last 30-40 years. All they have done is further inflamed situations. They must be abolished forthwith, and every person on their payroll who does not automatically agree should be arrested for crimes against the people.

Butt-frustrated that the UN told Israel to settle the fuck down when they decided to murder some more Palestinians.