Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - timterroo

Pages: < Back  1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 23  Next >
81
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: June 23, 2020, 08:14:25 PM »
Quote
Serious question. Why do you like Trump so much?

- Trump is not a politician. He is a businessman who gave up billions of dollars to drain the swamp.


If this is true, and I doubt it is, regardless whether or not he gave up any money, he's still filthy rich. The fact that he gives up his salary as president is evidence of that. If he can give away $500,000/year, chances are he makes substantially more than that.

82
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Black Lives Matter
« on: June 23, 2020, 02:46:01 PM »
BLM is not about white people, so if you feel like you don't matter or you're being left out because of this movement - if you're someone who says, "but every life matters" -  that's what is called "white privilege".

If you fall into this category, and I did at first, try putting the word "too" after "black lives matter". That's what BLM is about.

Right. But it feels like a straw man. It’s arguing against a position which almost no one holds. Who says that black lives don’t matter?
I provided the stats above, it’s incredibly rare that unarmed black people are killed by police in the US. The George Floyd incident was indisputably awful but the people who did it are in jail - no laws need to change, what they did was already illegal. And the stats just don’t bear out this idea that a systematically racist police force are killing black people for no reason other than their race.

Obviously I don’t know what it’s like to be black in the UK, but my feeling is that the privileges I have enjoyed - and I certainly have - are largely because of my family’s affluence.

I was writing this in response to some comments that were made earlier in the thread - primarily thorks comments. I often here people say things like that - "all lives matter", and that comes from a place of privilege as it misses the point of BLM.

You mention that you have been privileged in your life because you have money. This is not the same as "white privilege". There are plenty of wealthy black people.

White privilege is being advantaged solely because your skin is white. nothing to do with being rich or poor.

Take the bird watcher example:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2020/06/05/people-called-police-this-black-birdwatcher-so-many-times-that-he-posted-custom-signs-explain-his-hobby/

An educated black man who watches birds as a hobby evidently gave some poor lady a big enough scare that she called 911 on him - and she wasn't the first to do so.

This man's only crime was having black skin. If he had white skin, guaranteed nobody would have thought twice. This is what white privilege is - not having to worry you'll be judged or profiled because your skin is white.

Quote
It is generally young black men who are dressed in a certain way who are stopped. Because they tick all the boxes:
- Young
- Black
- Male
- Dressed in a certain way

Why are people picking out that person’s race and declaring that as the only factor and therefore it’s motivated by race and racism?

I disagree. If you have "young, white, male, dressed in a certain way", I think you will be stopped less than if you are black. Doesn't mean you won't draw suspicion, but not as quickly. However, I don't have any proof of this.

Quote

And it was 14 unarmed black men killed by police last year. Hardly indicative of a systematically racist police force just itching to gun down black people at every opportunity

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/


Although I don't think police are "itching to gun down black people at every opportunity", I do think those statistics are not giving the entire picture. There are far more white people in this country than black people, so statistically, there would be more white people shot down by police. The fact that the numbers are actually close is telling that the percentage of black people shot is higher than that for whites.


Edit:

@AATW, I re-read your post and I think I misunderstood. Are you saying the entire BLM movement is a strawman? If so, I think I see what you mean, but this is also exactly what I'm trying to say - People aren't explicitly saying "black lives don't matter", yet society treats them like they don't matter. Take my example of the bird watcher. If she had actually saw the man as a human being, rather than a black man, she might not have been so scared. No, there are no more laws that explicitly discriminate and we are all legally equal, it doesn't mean we are practically speaking because society implicitly biases against black people. So by saying "Black Lives Matter", that isn't an argument against people who say "black lives don't matter", it's a message for people to wake up and realize there is a problem.

83
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Black Lives Matter
« on: June 23, 2020, 04:26:55 AM »
Quote
I'm from a small town, most people are white, but I have a niece who is black. The school once told her she couldn't come to school with her hair in a fro - they said it was a distraction, and they thought it meant she hadn't been showering, so CPS was nearly called.

Would that justify her participation in riots and crime in protest of this perceived racism?

No, not at all.

If nothing justifies riots and crime, then why are you here trying to plead and justify and argue in favor of this movement which causes riots and crime to occur?

An argument of "some people there aren't throwing bricks and destroying property" is rather poor justification for this movement which causes crime to occur.

I’m not in favor of violence, and I never said I was.

Yet here you are, pleading with and defending an organization which causes crime to occur.

You said that already, and you are entitled to your opinion.

84
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Black Lives Matter
« on: June 23, 2020, 03:27:19 AM »
Quote
I'm from a small town, most people are white, but I have a niece who is black. The school once told her she couldn't come to school with her hair in a fro - they said it was a distraction, and they thought it meant she hadn't been showering, so CPS was nearly called.

Would that justify her participation in riots and crime in protest of this perceived racism?

No, not at all.

If nothing justifies riots and crime, then why are you here trying to plead and justify and argue in favor of this movement which causes riots and crime to occur?

An argument of "some people there aren't throwing bricks and destroying property" is rather poor justification for this movement which causes crime to occur.

I’m not in favor of violence, and I never said I was.

85
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Black Lives Matter
« on: June 23, 2020, 03:01:35 AM »
Quote
I'm from a small town, most people are white, but I have a niece who is black. The school once told her she couldn't come to school with her hair in a fro - they said it was a distraction, and they thought it meant she hadn't been showering, so CPS was nearly called.

Would that justify her participation in riots and crime in protest of this perceived racism?

No, not at all.

I get the impression that most people who are true to the BLM movement are not the people inciting violence. Of course, the rioting and violence is the majority of what the media shows, so that’s what people perceive.

86
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Black Lives Matter
« on: June 22, 2020, 11:12:06 PM »
BLM is not about white people, so if you feel like you don't matter or you're being left out because of this movement - if you're someone who says, "but every life matters" -  that's what is called "white privilege".

If you fall into this category, and I did at first, try putting the word "too" after "black lives matter". That's what BLM is about.

No reason to be offended.

@thork, there's so much you are saying that makes you sound so incredibly privileged, you should be glad that you have never had to deal with the kind of discrimination black people (in the USA) have to deal with.

I'm from a small town, most people are white, but I have a niece who is black. The school once told her she couldn't come to school with her hair in a fro - they said it was a distraction, and they thought it meant she hadn't been showering, so CPS was nearly called. Any idea how long it takes to properly do up her hair, so that it isn't messy or afroed? My wife can do it in about 8 hours.

This is the result of a complete lack of cultural education. I wouldn't necessarily call it racist, but at least ignorant. However, this is the kind of ignorance that leads to preconceived notions which leads to racism.

87
I wonder how much more this has to escalate before americans form a militia against the government just like their amendment allows for

It's already happened:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/inside-seattles-autonomous-zone-residents-enact-change/story?id=71295394

Protestors have taken over a 6-block radius which also contains a police department. They are going all out 2nd amendment style.

Edit:

After some further reading, it seems clear there is a ton of misinformation about the so-called "autonomous zone".... here's an article that seems to be less-biased....

https://slate.com/technology/2020/06/seattle-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone-occupied-protest.html

and another...

https://grist.org/ask-umbra/what-is-seattles-autonomous-zone-trying-to-do/


88
@totallackey

With regards to police training - since you are so keen on it - let's not forget that it is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away - don't you think that would apply to a gun as well? Police officers are also trained to give medical assistance to someone they have just shot - this officer just stood on him.
I have no clue where you got the idea that it is against Atlanta Police Department procedures to shoot someone who has a taser.

You conveniently ignored the latter part of the statement, so I'll restate it for you, only bolded this time:

"it is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away.

The man was shot in the back.
Really quite the chuckle from this...

Kindly post the policy...directly and put your own emphasis on those exact words as written in policy.

You know..."It is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away..."...that portion.

I will let you know right now I am sending you on a snipe hunt, as you will not find that in the Atlanta Police Department Policy Manual or SOP manual.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/atlanta-police-force-policy-violated-multiple-times-fatal/story?id=71295429

From the words of the district attorney:

"The Atlanta policy says you cannot fire a Taser at someone who is running away. So you certainly can't fire a handgun at someone who is running away," Howard said.

I guess he is just the attorney who represents the state of Georgia, so what does he know?

You're also just ignoring the rest of the facts.

1. The officer never informed Rayshard he was under arrest.

2. The police officer kicked Rayshard AFTER he shot him.

3. The police officer stood on Rayshard AFTER he shot him.

If the officer shot him solely because he felt he was a threat, why did he also feel the need to kick and stand on him afterwards rather than give him medical attention?

89
Inner-city marginalization accounts for a large percentage of criminal activity. Impoverished communities without resources for schools, community centers, and stable infrastructure.

As we have established, criminals aren't born, they are made. Poor communities without means for education, nor the resources to provide blue-collar jobs for those who cannot get educated leads to a cycle of crime, drug dealing, prostitution and violence. It turns out that poor communities can feed their children with money made from dealing drugs.

Society allows for a situation to exist that reinforces and legitimizes the underground criminal activity, and then it blames them for being violent drug dealing criminals.

90
In my own life, I have encountered police discrimination, specifically against black people, more than once:

1. My step father (a black man) was pulled over in Memphis, TN while driving my mother (a white woman) in her car. Upon coming up to the window, the officer looked at my mom and asked, "Is everything ok?". When my mom said, "yes!" the officer, pauses for a few moments, and says something like, "OK, just wanted to make sure." and sent them on their way. Clearly he was pulled over for "driving while black" AND suspicion of coercing/kidnapping a white woman.

2. My step father told me of a story in which he was stopped by two officers, I can't remember all the details, but they "arrested" him and drove him out to a lake outside of town where they proceeded to beat the living daylight out of him and left him for dead.

3. I was driving a friend of mine (a black man) to the hospital because he was having a major asthma attack and could not breathe. The hospital was 20 minutes away, so I was going about 90 MPH when I came upon a state trooper who was radaring. I see the officer, and immediately slow down and pull over because I assumed he would give us an escort of some kind once we realized my friend was minutes from dying. He did not. He looked at my friend, who is gasping for air and can barely mutter the words, "I can't breathe". The officer says, you need to go the speed limit, and he lets us go, but then proceeds to follow us down the highway (not lead, follows) to make sure I will not continue to speed. SeriouslY????? So f'd up. If my friend would have died that night, I would have held that officer personally responsible for failing to respond to an emergency and failing to help someone who was clearly in bad shape. Had my friend been white, I have no doubt he would have escorted us to the hospital.


91
@totallackey

With regards to police training - since you are so keen on it - let's not forget that it is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away - don't you think that would apply to a gun as well? Police officers are also trained to give medical assistance to someone they have just shot - this officer just stood on him.
I have no clue where you got the idea that it is against Atlanta Police Department procedures to shoot someone who has a taser.

You conveniently ignored the latter part of the statement, so I'll restate it for you, only bolded this time:

"it is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away.

The man was shot in the back.

92
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: June 18, 2020, 03:50:31 AM »
How many unarmed black men do you think the police killed last year? Take a guess, without cheating.

Don’t have a clue, but there were at least 3 killed in the past couple months.

Those are only the ones we know about since they were caught by civilian cameras.

93
however, the officer failed to read Rayshard his rights and inform him that he was under arrest

Reading someone their rights is not and has never been a requirement of arresting someone, and any reasonable adult should understand if an uniformed police officer tells them to put their hands behind their back and begins handcuffing them, they're obviously under arrest. I'm not saying it was okay to shoot this guy, but the implication that things might have gone differently if the cops had made a point of spelling out that he was being arrested and reading him his rights like it was a movie is an incredibly weak argument.

OK - so maybe you don't have to spell out people's rights to arrest them, but there are procedures in place to arrest someone. You don't just grab their arm and twist them around (especially not someone who has shown nothing but compliance). You say something like, "I'm going to put you under arrest now, and take you to detox/jail, or wherever they're taking you. "Please turn around and put your hands behind your back". Then they slap the cuffs on you - no reason to force it the way he did.

94
Watching the live hearing from the prosecutor right now, and it comes out that for roughly 45 minutes the officers questioned Rayshard and for 45 minutes he was compliant and respectful. After this time, the officer proceeded to arrest Rayshard - however, the officer failed to read Rayshard his rights and inform him that he was under arrest.

The taser Rayshard took had already been discharged, so it was NOT a lethal weapon and they knew this.

Then the officer also kicked Rayshard while he was on the ground after being shot - wth? Just doing his job, then? The officer is also on camera shown STANDING ON RAYSHARD!

Seems telling to me that there is more to this story.


Edit:

@totallackey

With regards to police training - since you are so keen on it - let's not forget that it is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away - don't you think that would apply to a gun as well? Police officers are also trained to give medical assistance to someone they have just shot - this officer just stood on him.

95
This is an open question directed to all Flat Earth Theorists, but I'm especially interested to see the responses of active debate participants like Tom Bishop or Pete Svarrior. It's okay if you don't want to answer, I'm not prying. However, if you are comfortable with sharing, what got you interested in Flat Earth Theory as a potentially true scenario. Was anyone not taught RE theory?

What interested me was not so much FET as a "potentially true scenario". What interested me was that if you put aside photography/videography, and try to prove the earth is round - it becomes a daunting task. What we've been taught our whole lives as "truths" are hardly provable. The more you discuss it, the more apparent this becomes.

96
He clearly wanted to simply get away from the police. That's it. No apparent harmful intent toward others, no apparent harmful intent toward the police, until they escalated the situation. Just wanted to get away. Can't say I blame him, given the amount of harm that they are causing to the citizens of the USA at the moment....

I don't want to give justification for the actions of anyone here, but if you really empathize with the black community, it isn't hard to imagine that Rayshard turned around and pointed the taser at the officer because he actually felt HIS life was in danger - as such, the turning around with the taser was in self-defense (in his head).

97
The officer should not have discharged his weapon. This was a situation where officers are trained NOT to shoot.

Edit:

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, the mentality should NOT be, "do as I say, or I'll shoot".
I doubt you have any clue as to what situations an officer is trained to shoot.

Nor the mentality it takes to be a police officer.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/15/cops-bullet-hit-familys-car-inside-in-rayshard-brooks-shooting-lawyer/

One of the bullets fired by the officer hit Rayshard's wife's car where there were children in the car. Tell me this is a situation where the cop is trained to shoot - when a family is immediately in line of fire? The officer not only killed Rayshard, he could have easily injured or killed Rayshard's wife or one of his four children. Police officers ARE TRAINED to NOT do this!

Furthermore, the officer had been previously disciplined for discharging his weapon when he should not have - further evidence that this officer was not trained properly.


98
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: June 17, 2020, 02:19:02 AM »
I'm glad this is getting more attention.
I'm surprised that you'd mistake such obvious spin for "more attention". Trump has been pretty obviously and visibly afraid of stairs when he started campaigning in the first place. Have you already forgotten him holding handsies with Theresa May a few years back?

This is not a new concern, nor is it a sign of deterioration. It's probably just a slight phobia.

Trump has visibly struggled with stairs a few times over the course of his presidency, but on many more occasions he's casually gone up and down stairs with no trouble at all, and the media haven't really bothered reporting on those moments because "Trump climbs stairs with no problem, nothing unexpected happens," isn't exactly a newsworthy story. Trump doesn't have a phobia of stairs in the sense that it's a purely psychological, irrational fear like how some people are afraid of clowns; he's afraid of more difficult stairs that he knows or thinks he won't be able to traverse smoothly and confidently. It might not be a sign of degradation, I'll admit. He might have been physically capable of moving faster, but was worried about stumbling and decided to be safe and take things extra slow. The same goes for the drink of water. Maybe he just has some arthritis that makes it painful for him to raise his arm too high. There are perfectly reasonable explanations for why a man his age has been acting the way he has, but Trump won't admit to any of them, because he refuses to admit to any flaws at all. So do his doctors. The only thing we really know is that the story he's given us of near-perfection isn't true.

The answer could be much simpler.....

He's drunk...

99
The officer should not have discharged his weapon. This was a situation where officers are trained NOT to shoot.

Edit:

And I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the mentality should NOT be, “do as I say, or I’ll shoot”.

100
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: June 15, 2020, 03:29:16 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/14/us/politics/trump-ramp-water-glass-health.html

I'm glad this is getting more attention. Trump is not in good health, and we won't know the extent of his condition unless he gets an actual independent medical examination, not a checkup from someone who'll say what Trump tells him to for fear of being fired. I'm not just saying this because of how regularly Trump both directly and through his campaign mocks his opponents for verbal stumbles and perceived physical weakness. It's a serious issue. The president is visibly deteriorating, and if he's no longer mentally or physically capable of doing his job, then there's a line of succession that needs to be followed. Trump's inner circle don't get to "take over" by propping him up and telling him what to say.

When watching Trump pick up the glass and bottles of water as he does, he does appear to be favoring his right hand - as though he doesn't have the strength or dexterity in his right hand. Perhaps it is weak from a blood flow issue or stroke? Purely hypothetical.

Pages: < Back  1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 23  Next >