[papertowel]

Hi! Im interested in FE theory, and i was thinking about it but I still dont understand some aspects of it. Could someone help me out?

1) If the moon and sun are circling above the earth how is it that the moon seems to be in the same phase in all parts of the world. i have friends with who i checked this with.

2) If the moon and sun are 2000 miles away, how is it that if i get on a plane, the sun stays the same size?

3) Why cant i see the sun when its night? i mean i can see much smaller stars on the dome, but i cant see the sun which is not that far away compared to the height of the dome. Also it should fade to a more dimmed sun as it move away from my location

[papertowel]

Its ok if you only tackle one question at a time Im really interested in these, i cant get my head around them

[New_In_Town]

Hey! I don't have the answers to these questions, but one observation I have made is that everything we know today as common knowledge and fact is born of the round earth model. So, there are endless possibilities as to why certain things are the way the are. We look for solutions to processes we observe in relation to the round earth belief. If the earth isn't round then things could have any number of unexplored solutions and explanations.

The problem we face having lived with this round earth model is that even when we consider new truths, like flat earth for example, we are still trying to make round earth theories fit a flat earth model and it doesn't work.

From what I've seen so far, earths processes and such make more sense on a flat model. However, the solar processes make more sense in a round model. 

[Tom Haws]

new truths, like flat earth

Hmm.

Since I am not supposed to post with "low content", let me point out that you are welcome to start from any beginning hypothesis you want and start doing observations. Why does the large, bright sun sink into the sea? Why can I fly about as fast from Sao Paulo to Johannesburg as from Chicago to Paris? What explains the apparent movements of the sun, moon, planets, and stars? Then get out your calculator.

[mtnman]

1) If the moon and sun are circling above the earth how is it that the moon seems to be in the same phase in all parts of the world. i have friends with who i checked this with.

I have asked this same question multiple times, never received an explanation.

The idea of sun&moon circling above us also would imply that we cycle through the phases of the moon each day (full orbit of sun, partial orbit of moon)

If the sun and moon are on a similar plane thousands of miles up, we should never be able to see a completely illuminated full/circular moon.

Funny how flat Earth belief can't explain some things that are really basic.

[Tom Bishop]

1) If the moon and sun are circling above the earth how is it that the moon seems to be in the same phase in all parts of the world. i have friends with who i checked this with.

I have asked this same question multiple times, never received an explanation.

The idea of sun&moon circling above us also would imply that we cycle through the phases of the moon each day (full orbit of sun, partial orbit of moon)

If the sun and moon are on a similar plane thousands of miles up, we should never be able to see a completely illuminated full/circular moon.

Funny how flat Earth belief can't explain some things that are really basic.

Have you attempted to perform a simple seach on the Wiki or the forums for your query?

Not many people are going to sit here answering your questions unless you can show that you have done some basic research on the subject and are able to provide interesting content to discuss.

[devils advocate]

Not many people are going to sit here answering your questions unless you can show that you have done some basic research on the subject and are able to provide interesting content to discuss.

FYI: Basic research could consist of the following; reading "Earth is not a Globe", watching YouTube videos or looking out of your window. To be fair the Flat earther's get bored of getting asked the same questions over and over. Much in the same way as Round earther's get tired of waiting for logical answers to these questions over and over. The reason you are encountering resistance to the phases of the moon question is that there is no FE answer that satisfies us, maybe the moon is a projection of a bunch of fireflies crawling over the surface (are two of the multiple answers I have read to explain what we see).

Don't even ask about the path the photons take at sunset from the sun to our eyes.........

[mtnman]

Have you attempted to perform a simple seach on the Wiki or the forums for your query?

Not many people are going to sit here answering your questions unless you can show that you have done some basic research on the subject and are able to provide interesting content to discuss.

Just my opinion, but I don't understand the reluctance to answer questions like this. Isn't that the purpose of this site?

But if you're going to direct people to the wiki for information on moon phases, that page (https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Phases_of_the_Moon) needs some help. As you know Tom I don't share your flat Earth beliefs. But I can't even understand what that page is trying to say.

When the moon and sun are at the same altitude one half of the lunar surface is illuminated and pointing towards the sun

No, one half of the lunar surface is illuminated and pointing towards the sun at all times. The phases seen depend on where the moon is viewed from.

the Moon and Sun, which are constantly wobbling up and down and exchange altitudes

Is this trying to say the moon's orbit is significantly inclined to that of the sun's orbit (around the pole), or perhaps at a right angle to it?

The full moon appears when the moon is higher, and is farther above the Earth? This would imply that the full moon is much smaller than the new moon. Is this what you observe?

During the days around the full moon (say -1 day to +1 day), while it is highest/furthest from the Earth, the sun would would make a few orbits around the North Pole. Therefore we should see a full or near full moon when the sun is both on the same side and the opposite side of the Earth over the course of the day. Is this what you observe?

In my observations, the full moon is always on the other side of the sky from the sun. Setting when the sun rises, etc. That doesn't seem to fit with this description.

That wiki page would be MUCH easier to understand with a couple of basic diagrams. Is there another source for this diagram that I have missed?

[papertowel]

1) If the moon and sun are circling above the earth how is it that the moon seems to be in the same phase in all parts of the world. i have friends with who i checked this with.

I have asked this same question multiple times, never received an explanation.

The idea of sun&moon circling above us also would imply that we cycle through the phases of the moon each day (full orbit of sun, partial orbit of moon)

If the sun and moon are on a similar plane thousands of miles up, we should never be able to see a completely illuminated full/circular moon.

Funny how flat Earth belief can't explain some things that are really basic.

Have you attempted to perform a simple seach on the Wiki or the forums for your query?

Not many people are going to sit here answering your questions unless you can show that you have done some basic research on the subject and are able to provide interesting content to discuss.

Hi yes I did but the wiki page (the one about moonphases) only answers the question that why is the orientation of the moon changing when viewed from other parts of the earth. My question is about the phase itself.

 Lets say that the moons one side is illuminated, but the other isnt. I see the moons light side but my friend at the other end ofntje world should now see the dark side of tje moon according to FE theory.

What is the answer for this? Or where is it in the wiki?

[Tom Bishop]

1) If the moon and sun are circling above the earth how is it that the moon seems to be in the same phase in all parts of the world. i have friends with who i checked this with.

I have asked this same question multiple times, never received an explanation.

The idea of sun&moon circling above us also would imply that we cycle through the phases of the moon each day (full orbit of sun, partial orbit of moon)

If the sun and moon are on a similar plane thousands of miles up, we should never be able to see a completely illuminated full/circular moon.

Funny how flat Earth belief can't explain some things that are really basic.

Have you attempted to perform a simple seach on the Wiki or the forums for your query?

Not many people are going to sit here answering your questions unless you can show that you have done some basic research on the subject and are able to provide interesting content to discuss.

Hi yes I did but the wiki page (the one about moonphases) only answers the question that why is the orientation of the moon changing when viewed from other parts of the earth. My question is about the phase itself.

 Lets say that the moons one side is illuminated, but the other isnt. I see the moons light side but my friend at the other end ofntje world should now see the dark side of tje moon according to FE theory.

What is the answer for this? Or where is it in the wiki?

See my comments in this thread.

[Tom Bishop]

Is this trying to say the moon's orbit is significantly inclined to that of the sun's orbit (around the pole), or perhaps at a right angle to it?

It is saying that the phases are a result of the changing altitude difference between the sun and the moon.

The full moon appears when the moon is higher, and is farther above the Earth? This would imply that the full moon is much smaller than the new moon. Is this what you observe?

See this article.

During the days around the full moon (say -1 day to +1 day), while it is highest/furthest from the Earth, the sun would would make a few orbits around the North Pole. Therefore we should see a full or near full moon when the sun is both on the same side and the opposite side of the Earth over the course of the day. Is this what you observe?

I don't see what you are trying to say.

Is there another source for this diagram that I have missed?

The idea seems pretty straight forward to me.

[mtnman]

Is this trying to say the moon's orbit is significantly inclined to that of the sun's orbit (around the pole), or perhaps at a right angle to it?

It is saying that the phases are a result of the changing altitude difference between the sun and the moon.

Please elaborate. I have not seen any reference that the FE altitude of the sun varies, so I think it is fairly constant. Are you saying that moon just goes straight up and down, or that it's polar orbit is inclined relative to the plane of the sun's orbit and the flat Earth's surface? Meaning that half of the orbit is below the sun's altitude and half above.

A diagram would make this much easier.

The full moon appears when the moon is higher, and is farther above the Earth? This would imply that the full moon is much smaller than the new moon. Is this what you observe?

See this article.

I'm not referring to atmospheric refraction/magnification, that's a known effect.  I refer to it's apparent diameter at a similar point in the sky over the course of a month.

During the days around the full moon (say -1 day to +1 day), while it is highest/furthest from the Earth, the sun would would make a few orbits around the North Pole. Therefore we should see a full or near full moon when the sun is both on the same side and the opposite side of the Earth over the course of the day. Is this what you observe?

I don't see what you are trying to say.

Imagine the animation on your wiki. If the moon takes 29 days to orbit, then it will be roughly over the same general area on the flat Earth for a period, (full moon +/- a day). During those days, the sun will orbit multiple times. So that would mean that for part of the time the sun will be on the opposite side of the disc, and on the same side part of the time. Has anyone ever observed a full moon that wasn't on the other side of the sky?

Is there another source for this diagram that I have missed?

The idea seems pretty straight forward to me.

Then once again, can someone provide a simple diagram? If education is your goal, it would make the concept easier for everyone to understand. Personally, I think this description is so far removed from reality that you can't make a diagram that would hold up to the slightest amount of analysis. But that's just my opinion.

[Tom Haws]

I'm sorry, but I agree this is extremely confusing. I cannot even begin to formulate a mental model of this. Has anybody built a scale model or a computer model that would let me zoom into all the objects involved to let me examine them?

I read the thread Tom Bishop linked, and I follow his example about Rubick's cube moon faces. But I disagree about the complexity of what's happening. It's pretty easy to compute with triangles what is being seen. Perspective is not a mystery. It's all about the angle of view that any object occupies. We can easily calculate any real world perspective problem. Give me an example if you'd like.

[Curious Squirrel]

I'm sorry, but I agree this is extremely confusing. I cannot even begin to formulate a mental model of this. Has anybody built a scale model or a computer model that would let me zoom into all the objects involved to let me examine them?

I read the thread Tom Bishop linked, and I follow his example about Rubick's cube moon faces. But I disagree about the complexity of what's happening. It's pretty easy to compute with triangles what is being seen. Perspective is not a mystery. It's all about the angle of view that any object occupies. We can easily calculate any real world perspective problem. Give me an example if you'd like.

I'm not an artist or anything, but here's a pair of rough drawings for what is happening. The first shows the moons up and down relative to the sun, doing a full period in one month. Very rough, just trying to get the idea across that it moves above then below the suns orbit during this time period, do NOT take it at face value. It's meant to help you form a mental image, nothing more. The second shows the 'path' of the sun/moon (again very roughly) upon the Earth and notes how one takes longer to go around than the other, resulting in the moon 'catching up' to the sun and passing it. All very simple if you throw out flat/round issues and consider sun/moon movements in relation to a stationary Earth. Here are the image

Tom claims trig is wrong past a certain distance. He's never explained how he knows that , what that distance may be, or why no one has ever noticed before. He also appears to have a very different idea of the meaning of perspective. If you can figure out his claims you're a step ahead of me, because I've been trying for two months and it still looks like he's claiming math doesn't work past X distance because reasons. The key is in 'parallel perspective lines' I think, but imo it's a nonsense phrase.

[Tom Haws]

Here are the image

Impressive! Makes me wonder how long you have been here. I can't say I have thought it through very far. But at least I now have a leg up.

Not exactly good for this thread, but very appropriate and resulting from this exchange (Tom's claims about trig and the subject of perspective), I found this interesting photograph and web page that claims to hold the world record for land to land photography distance (444 km). Of interest, the apparent protrusion of Pic Lory (yeah, I spent a lot of time on Google Earth with this) of about 1,000 feet 444 km away isn't far out of line with a rough pythagorean estimate of how much you might be able to see of Pic Lory above the horizon at that distance.

[papertowel]

1) If the moon and sun are circling above the earth how is it that the moon seems to be in the same phase in all parts of the world. i have friends with who i checked this with.

I have asked this same question multiple times, never received an explanation.

The idea of sun&moon circling above us also would imply that we cycle through the phases of the moon each day (full orbit of sun, partial orbit of moon)

If the sun and moon are on a similar plane thousands of miles up, we should never be able to see a completely illuminated full/circular moon.

Funny how flat Earth belief can't explain some things that are really basic.

Have you attempted to perform a simple seach on the Wiki or the forums for your query?

Not many people are going to sit here answering your questions unless you can show that you have done some basic research on the subject and are able to provide interesting content to discuss.

Hi yes I did but the wiki page (the one about moonphases) only answers the question that why is the orientation of the moon changing when viewed from other parts of the earth. My question is about the phase itself.

 Lets say that the moons one side is illuminated, but the other isnt. I see the moons light side but my friend at the other end ofntje world should now see the dark side of tje moon according to FE theory.

What is the answer for this? Or where is it in the wiki?

See my comments in this thread.

No no no no. If i look at a rubiks cube from 10 meters and only see its 3 faces, no matter how far i go i wont be able to see its backside

Besides that if i stand in africa and a friend stands in the usa if the moon is lets say at the average point between us but 2000 miles high then there is no way for us to see its same side at the same time. But we  do.

How can you explain that?