[geckothegeek]

This is just an idea....
No claims made for a theory or hypothesis.
Or even if it would be  practical or possible.
I rather doubt that there is a highway that would be straight enough and level enough.
.
Here is the idea. But....If you could.
Let's assume you are at Mile Marker  1 and then   take sights on Mile Markers 2 and 3 with a telescope
Could you perform an experiment something like the Bedford Level ?

[Tom Bishop]

This is just an idea....
No claims made for a theory or hypothesis.
Or even if it would be  practical or possible.
I rather doubt that there is a highway that would be straight enough and level enough.
.
Here is the idea. But....If you could.
Let's assume you are at Mile Marker  1 and then   take sights on Mile Markers 2 and 3 with a telescope
Could you perform an experiment something like the Bedford Level ?

Sure, why not?

You should be expected to somehow defend the elevations, however, as you will be challenged regardless of result.

[Rounder]

What Tom said.  The reason for doing the Bedford experiment over water instead of land is the fact that water is self levelling.

[geckothegeek]

On second thought , I apologize for this idea.
I was thinking of some stretches of I-40 across the Mojave Desert.
But I rather doubt that you would be able to find any road that would be perfectly flat and perfectly level for several miles for this experiment.
Any road is going to have at least a few ups and downs and a few curves, no matter how small. Even I-40.

Not such a good idea.
Not very practical.
But I am going to try to see if I can see at least from one  mile marker to the next on my next trip with a telescope or binoculars.

I have read that there is one highway in Australia where this might be possible.

Moderator, you may delete this subject if you wish.

[rabinoz]

On second thought , I apologize for this idea.
I was thinking of some stretches of I-40 across the Mojave Desert.
But I rather doubt that you would be able to find any road that would be perfectly flat and perfectly level for several miles for this experiment.
Any road is going to have at least a few ups and downs and a few curves, no matter how small. Even I-40.

Not such a good idea.
Not very practical.
But I am going to try to see if I can see at least from one  mile marker to the next on my next trip with a telescope or binoculars.

I have read that there is one highway in Australia where this might be possible.

Moderator, you may delete this subject if you wish.

Yes, Western Australia does have its "90 mile straight", I've driven it a few times:

90 Mile Straight in WA, Elevation from 151 m down to 109 m

It is indeed straight, but with the elevation starting at 151 m in the west, falling to 109 m in the east, it might not be ideal.

Of course, if the earth is a globe the "bulge" in the middle should be around 305 m above either end, so maybe if you like to visit "down under" with your trusty theodolite you might get somewhere.

[geckothegeek]

The problem with this "idea" is that while you may have a straight road, you may not have a level road and vice-versa.

After doing a little review on my little "idea" , I am beginning to see why a "landlubber" who had never been to sea might be tempted to believe that the earth was flat.

The open sea is really the surface of the earth that appears to be the flattest and the most level. But on the other hand the old "ship over the horizon" or  "land over the horizon" seems to be the most visual indication of the curvature of the earth and proof that the earth is a gllobe.

In the words of Colonel Pickering of " My Fair Lady" , it is  "Common Knowledge" that the earth is a globe anyway.

This may be  a little off topic and maybe something more suited to one of the Titanic-related forums.
Would the lookout in the crow's nest on Carpathia see the Titanic's lifeboats first or would those in the Titanic's lifeboats see the top of Carpathia's highest  mast first ?
I believe there were reports that  the rockets from the Carpathia were seen well before the Carpathia appeared over the horizon.
Again.......Due to the  curvature of the earth.

[Rounder]

This may be  a little off topic and maybe something more suited to one of the Titanic-related forums.
Would the lookout in the crow's nest on Carpathia see the Titanic's lifeboats first or would those in the Titanic's lifeboats see the top of Carpathia's highest  mast first ?
I believe there were reports that  the rockets from the Carpathia were seen well before the Carpathia appeared over the horizon.
Again.......Due to the  curvature of the earth.

If the Carpathia's lookout has line-of-sight to the lifeboats, then they have line-of-sight to him.  Along the same line.  Even if you can see farther than the pure horizon due to refraction, the photons refract along the same path in each direction.

[geckothegeek]

This may be  a little off topic and maybe something more suited to one of the Titanic-related forums.
Would the lookout in the crow's nest on Carpathia see the Titanic's lifeboats first or would those in the Titanic's lifeboats see the top of Carpathia's highest  mast first ?
I believe there were reports that  the rockets from the Carpathia were seen well before the Carpathia appeared over the horizon.
Again.......Due to the  curvature of the earth.

If the Carpathia's lookout has line-of-sight to the lifeboats, then they have line-of-sight to him.  Along the same line.  Even if you can see farther than the pure horizon due to refraction, the photons refract along the same path in each direction.

Thanks, Rounder.
That was my deduction. Since the crow's nest on the Carpathia was a considerable height above the sea,  those in the lifeboats would see it at the same time the lookout saw them.
That does raise the questiion. Woiuld those in the lifeboats see the tip of the mast before the lookout saw them ?
But if the earth was flat they would see not only the mast, but the whole ship- hull to mast - just appearing larger as it aproached them.
Just the old "ship over the horizon."
Also about the same as those warnings on those "eighteen wheelers" ....." If you can't see my mirrors, I can"t see you."

I hereby abandon my "experiment" for lack of a perfectly flat, perfectly level elevation , perfectly straight  roadway.....For at least 3 miiles.
If someone else wants to pick up on it, they have my blessings . LOL

[Woody]

This may be  a little off topic and maybe something more suited to one of the Titanic-related forums.
Would the lookout in the crow's nest on Carpathia see the Titanic's lifeboats first or would those in the Titanic's lifeboats see the top of Carpathia's highest  mast first ?
I believe there were reports that  the rockets from the Carpathia were seen well before the Carpathia appeared over the horizon.
Again.......Due to the  curvature of the earth.

If the Carpathia's lookout has line-of-sight to the lifeboats, then they have line-of-sight to him.  Along the same line.  Even if you can see farther than the pure horizon due to refraction, the photons refract along the same path in each direction.

Thanks, Rounder.
That was my deduction. Since the crow's nest on the Carpathia was a considerable height above the sea,  those in the lifeboats would see it at the same time the lookout saw them.
That does raise the questiion. Woiuld those in the lifeboats see the tip of the mast before the lookout saw them ?
But if the earth was flat they would see not only the mast, but the whole ship- hull to mast - just appearing larger as it aproached them.
Just the old "ship over the horizon."
Also about the same as those warnings on those "eighteen wheelers" ....." If you can't see my mirrors, I can"t see you."

I hereby abandon my "experiment" for lack of a perfectly flat, perfectly level elevation , perfectly straight  roadway.....For at least 3 miiles.
If someone else wants to pick up on it, they have my blessings . LOL

You could still do it and just include the elevation change in the calculations. Geodetic surveyors not only determine elevation, but take it into account while doing their jobs and calculations.

[geckothegeek]

Something like a salt flat would be better ?

[Boots]

I hereby abandon my "experiment" for lack of a perfectly flat, perfectly level elevation , perfectly straight  roadway.....For at least 3 miiles.
If someone else wants to pick up on it, they have my blessings . LOL

Also, ask earth levelers. They are about as far from NASA propagandists as you can get. But they will tell you that you can only use a laser for about 1/4 of a mile. After that it is not accurate enough. This is because the laser is shooting in a straight line which is level with the position of the laser. As you move further away from the laser, it gradually begins to shoot "uphill" in relation to the earth at that location. Up until 1/4 mile the effect is small enough to ignore. After that they need to make an adjustment -  otherwise, according to how water behaves, they will be going uphill and not level.

[geckothegeek]

This may be  a little off topic and maybe something more suited to one of the Titanic-related forums.
Would the lookout in the crow's nest on Carpathia see the Titanic's lifeboats first or would those in the Titanic's lifeboats see the top of Carpathia's highest  mast first ?
I believe there were reports that  the rockets from the Carpathia were seen well before the Carpathia appeared over the horizon.
Again.......Due to the  curvature of the earth.

If the Carpathia's lookout has line-of-sight to the lifeboats, then they have line-of-sight to him.  Along the same line.  Even if you can see farther than the pure horizon due to refraction, the photons refract along the same path in each direction.

Thanks, Rounder.
That was my deduction. Since the crow's nest on the Carpathia was a considerable height above the sea,  those in the lifeboats would see it at the same time the lookout saw them.
That does raise the questiion. Woiuld those in the lifeboats see the tip of the mast before the lookout saw them ?
But if the earth was flat they would see not only the mast, but the whole ship- hull to mast - just appearing larger as it aproached them.
Just the old "ship over the horizon."
Also about the same as those warnings on those "eighteen wheelers" ....." If you can't see my mirrors, I can"t see you."

I hereby abandon my "experiment" for lack of a perfectly flat, perfectly level elevation , perfectly straight  roadway.....For at least 3 miiles.
If someone else wants to pick up on it, they have my blessings . LOL

You could still do it and just include the elevation change in the calculations. Geodetic surveyors not only determine elevation, but take it into account while doing their jobs and calculations.

You are right. My error. I negleted to take the change in elevations for each "check point" on the experiment into account. I should have remembered this from an old surveying course I took.......But that was a long time ago. LOL.

The Australian highway in the example is 42 Meters lower in elevation at the eastern end than it is at the westrern end.
If the highway was at the same elevation in its entire length, things could have been a bit simpler.