The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: ichoosereality on August 01, 2021, 01:52:46 AM
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The night sky seen from the northern and southern hemispheres is radially different. No matter how powerful your telescope you can not see stars that are on the other side of the planet from your position. That is what we observe and it makes perfect sense for a ball earth. But why would it be true for a flat earth?
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The following comment I found online a while back might be helpful to you in explaining the stars question:
'2 people are standing on the opposite walls of a room, one wall is north, the other is south, and the moon is a picture on the ceiling. The top of the picture will be top for the one observer and the bottom of the picture will be top for the other observer...'
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The following comment I found online a while back might be helpful to you in explaining the stars question:
'2 people are standing on the opposite walls of a room, one wall is north, the other is south, and the moon is a picture on the ceiling. The top of the picture will be top for the one observer and the bottom of the picture will be top for the other observer...'
If the picture on the ceiling is a circle, both observers will see an ellipse. If it is drawn to appear to one as a circle, the other will not see it as such.
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The following comment I found online a while back might be helpful to you in explaining the stars question:
'2 people are standing on the opposite walls of a room, one wall is north, the other is south, and the moon is a picture on the ceiling. The top of the picture will be top for the one observer and the bottom of the picture will be top for the other observer...'
It is not a question of orientation, which should remain the same anyway (e.g. the FE model claims north points to the center of the flat earth and the entire universe rotates around that axis). But even forgetting orientation, as you move from north to south (or south to north) previously unseen stars/constellations become visible and others are no longer visible. The night sky in the northern regions is radically different from the night sky in the southern regions. It's clearly due to the earth being in the way which can not happen on a flat earth.
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The following comment I found online a while back might be helpful to you in explaining the stars question:
'2 people are standing on the opposite walls of a room, one wall is north, the other is south, and the moon is a picture on the ceiling. The top of the picture will be top for the one observer and the bottom of the picture will be top for the other observer...'
I don't believe that is relevant to what the OP is asking. S/He is referring to stars, not the moon. In short, perhaps, why can't you see Polaris from a ways south of the equator and conversely, why can't you see the Crux from a ways north of the equator?
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You folks seem to be forgetting bendy light.
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The night sky seen from the northern and southern hemispheres is radially different. No matter how powerful your telescope you can not see stars that are on the other side of the planet from your position. That is what we observe and it makes perfect sense for a ball earth. But why would it be true for a flat earth?
Despite the height of an object above our heads, it will eventually be obscured by objects arising from the flat earth plane.
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I want to know why it doesn't look completely different every night if we're spinning around through space like they say we are. All that supposed movement still the position of the stars remains pretty much the same each night. Something about that seems off if you ask me.
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... will eventually be obscured by objects arising from the flat earth plane.
... and these objects are .... what?
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I want to know why it doesn't look completely different every night if we're spinning around through space like they say we are. All that supposed movement still the position of the stars remains pretty much the same each night. Something about that seems off if you ask me.
Don't know about you, but the most recognisable constellation in my sky, at least over winter, is Orion. It doesn't stay still in my sky, in general terms I clearly see it at first to my South East, and it doesn't take long for it to have moved to South West and beyond over the course of a night.
Certainly doesn't stay still. Neither does the Moon, which shows the same sort of behaviour, crossing my sky exactly as would be expected with us rotating around, bringing it into view and taking it out of view, appearing in broadly the same spot once every 24 hours. The spot varies long-term, according to the seasons.
The stars don't look COMPLETELY different because, in the big scheme of things, we're hardly moving at all. We spin around once every 24 hours or so, cycle around the Sun once every 365 days, but in galactic terms, we're a drop in the ocean. A grain of sand on a big beach.
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... will eventually be obscured by objects arising from the flat earth plane.
... and these objects are .... what?
Bushes, trees, buildings, mountains, clouds, etc.
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You folks seem to be forgetting bendy light.
So why do you enlighten us then?
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The night sky seen from the northern and southern hemispheres is radially different. No matter how powerful your telescope you can not see stars that are on the other side of the planet from your position. That is what we observe and it makes perfect sense for a ball earth. But why would it be true for a flat earth?
Despite the height of an object above our heads, it will eventually be obscured by objects arising from the flat earth plane.
I have no idea what you are trying to say. The objects in the night sky appear to rotate nighty around the axis of the earth (due to the earth spinning, not the universe spinning).
As you move north or south the sky also appears to rotate in the opposite direction, but that is due to your position on a globe changing and the globe obstructing or revealing a different segment of sky.
In the far north or far south the stars are completely different. How can you explain that for a flat earth?
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You folks seem to be forgetting bendy light.
So why do you enlighten us then?
Bendy light affects all light. Get far enough away from it and it bends up over your head. Just like sunset. Something like that. It's bendy light.
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Bendy light affects all light. Get far enough away from it and it bends up over your head. Just like sunset. Something like that. It's bendy light.
"bendy light" is nonsense. If light coming from an object curved away from the observe you would not see the object, it would not appear to make the object decent or ascend.
Those pushing "bendy light" are just throwing words around that have no meaning.
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Bendy light affects all light. Get far enough away from it and it bends up over your head. Just like sunset. Something like that. It's bendy light.
"bendy light" is nonsense. If light coming from an object curved away from the observe you would not see the object, it would not appear to make the object decent or ascend.
Those pushing "bendy light" are just throwing words around that have no meaning.
Now is where you get directed to the WIKI
https://wiki.tfes.org/Electromagnetic_Acceleration
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I want to know why it doesn't look completely different every night if we're spinning around through space like they say we are. All that supposed movement still the position of the stars remains pretty much the same each night. Something about that seems off if you ask me.
Don't know about you, but the most recognisable constellation in my sky, at least over winter, is Orion. It doesn't stay still in my sky, in general terms I clearly see it at first to my South East, and it doesn't take long for it to have moved to South West and beyond over the course of a night.
Certainly doesn't stay still. Neither does the Moon, which shows the same sort of behaviour, crossing my sky exactly as would be expected with us rotating around, bringing it into view and taking it out of view, appearing in broadly the same spot once every 24 hours. The spot varies long-term, according to the seasons.
The stars don't look COMPLETELY different because, in the big scheme of things, we're hardly moving at all. We spin around once every 24 hours or so, cycle around the Sun once every 365 days, but in galactic terms, we're a drop in the ocean. A grain of sand on a big beach.
But Orion is still there isn't it? Just strikes me as odd that we're supposedly going in circles around the sun which in turn is spinning around the galaxy which also is likely doing something similar and all the time our night sky never seems to change that much.
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The night sky seen from the northern and southern hemispheres is radially different. No matter how powerful your telescope you can not see stars that are on the other side of the planet from your position. That is what we observe and it makes perfect sense for a ball earth. But why would it be true for a flat earth?
Despite the height of an object above our heads, it will eventually be obscured by objects arising from the flat earth plane.
I have no idea what you are trying to say.
Okay, let me elucidate.
A plane is flying from N to S.
You do not see it immediately due to clouds between you and the plane, but can hear it.
Then, it appears to you from between the clouds, then disappears again briefly, but reappears.
As it makes its way further S, it disappears behind a ten foot tall tree immediately behind you, then reappears briefly, only to disappear behind a water tower 1/2 mile away from you.
Then it finally disappears from your sight behind a distant line of low level clouds 10 miles down range of your position.
In the far north or far south the stars are completely different. How can you explain that for a flat earth?
That has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.
I would expect to see different things over my head as I move about, even in a 10x12 room.
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I want to know why it doesn't look completely different every night if we're spinning around through space like they say we are. All that supposed movement still the position of the stars remains pretty much the same each night. Something about that seems off if you ask me.
The stars don't look COMPLETELY different because, in the big scheme of things, we're hardly moving at all. We spin around once every 24 hours or so, cycle around the Sun once every 365 days, but in galactic terms, we're a drop in the ocean. A grain of sand on a big beach.
But Orion is still there isn't it? Just strikes me as odd that we're supposedly going in circles around the sun which in turn is spinning around the galaxy which also is likely doing something similar and all the time our night sky never seems to change that much.
I refer again to my last statement, now bolded.
I can only suggest you think bigger. Our little circuit around the Sun is a minor blip, a nothingness in galactic terms.
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I want to know why it doesn't look completely different every night if we're spinning around through space like they say we are. All that supposed movement still the position of the stars remains pretty much the same each night. Something about that seems off if you ask me.
The stars don't look COMPLETELY different because, in the big scheme of things, we're hardly moving at all. We spin around once every 24 hours or so, cycle around the Sun once every 365 days, but in galactic terms, we're a drop in the ocean. A grain of sand on a big beach.
But Orion is still there isn't it? Just strikes me as odd that we're supposedly going in circles around the sun which in turn is spinning around the galaxy which also is likely doing something similar and all the time our night sky never seems to change that much.
I refer again to my last statement, now bolded.
I can only suggest you think bigger. Our little circuit around the Sun is a minor blip, a nothingness in galactic terms.
The closest stars are about 10 light years away, most of the stars in the night sky are between 10 and 100 light years away, but lets use 10. The distance from on end of earths orbit to the other is 600 milling miles. So if you do the math, I think that comes out to the closest stars being about 100,000 times further away then the maxim different view positions of the earth. So if you have an unobstructed view of an object 1 mile away and move about 1/2 an inch (about 1/100,000th of a mile) left or right, would you expect your view of that object to change? And the is using the maximum difference at the extreme ends of an orbit for the analogy.. Day to day the difference for viewing an object 1 mile away would be very roughly 185 times less or around 7/100ths of an inch.
By using precise instrumentation differences CAN be seen and plotting the orbits of galaxies (which you can't see with the naked eye) around each other is part of the evidence for dark matter.
10 LY = 5.8E13 miles, call it 60 trillion
earth orbit diameter 600 million 6E8 miles
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I want to know why it doesn't look completely different every night if we're spinning around through space like they say we are. All that supposed movement still the position of the stars remains pretty much the same each night. Something about that seems off if you ask me.
Don't know about you, but the most recognisable constellation in my sky, at least over winter, is Orion. It doesn't stay still in my sky, in general terms I clearly see it at first to my South East, and it doesn't take long for it to have moved to South West and beyond over the course of a night.
Certainly doesn't stay still. Neither does the Moon, which shows the same sort of behaviour, crossing my sky exactly as would be expected with us rotating around, bringing it into view and taking it out of view, appearing in broadly the same spot once every 24 hours. The spot varies long-term, according to the seasons.
The stars don't look COMPLETELY different because, in the big scheme of things, we're hardly moving at all. We spin around once every 24 hours or so, cycle around the Sun once every 365 days, but in galactic terms, we're a drop in the ocean. A grain of sand on a big beach.
I've heard this size explanation before but it still sounds odd. If you were standing on a grain of sand flying through space I reckon your view is going to change dramatically from one moment to the next.
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If you were standing on a grain of sand flying through space I reckon your view is going to change dramatically from one moment to the next.
Why do you reckon that? When you're driving through the great Plains, do farms or mountains off in the distance change dramatically from one moment to the next? When you're on a cruise, do islands pop up and disappear from one moment to the next? When you're on a plane, travelling at 500 mph, does the ground beneath you hurtle past so fast you cant focus on it?
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But Orion is still there isn't it? Just strikes me as odd that we're supposedly going in circles around the sun which in turn is spinning around the galaxy which also is likely doing something similar and all the time our night sky never seems to change that much.
It's just a matter of distance and scale. Go outside and look at a mountain (or I guess any distant object). Now spin around while walking in a small a circle. Does the mountain appear in the same place and look the same every time you turn around? Pretty much the same concept.
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If you were standing on a grain of sand flying through space I reckon your view is going to change dramatically from one moment to the next.
Why do you reckon that? When you're driving through the great Plains, do farms or mountains off in the distance change dramatically from one moment to the next? When you're on a cruise, do islands pop up and disappear from one moment to the next? When you're on a plane, travelling at 500 mph, does the ground beneath you hurtle past so fast you cant focus on it?
I reckon they would if the road was a spiral.
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The night sky seen from the northern and southern hemispheres is radially different. No matter how powerful your telescope you can not see stars that are on the other side of the planet from your position. That is what we observe and it makes perfect sense for a ball earth. But why would it be true for a flat earth?
Despite the height of an object above our heads, it will eventually be obscured by objects arising from the flat earth plane.
I have no idea what you are trying to say.
Okay, let me elucidate.
A plane is flying from N to S.
You do not see it immediately due to clouds between you and the plane, but can hear it.
Then, it appears to you from between the clouds, then disappears again briefly, but reappears.
As it makes its way further S, it disappears behind a ten foot tall tree immediately behind you, then reappears briefly, only to disappear behind a water tower 1/2 mile away from you.
Then it finally disappears from your sight behind a distant line of low level clouds 10 miles down range of your position.
In the far north or far south the stars are completely different. How can you explain that for a flat earth?
That has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.
I would expect to see different things over my head as I move about, even in a 10x12 room.
All clutter on the horizon can be ignored by only looking at the sky say 20 degrees up from all horizons. We're observing on a clear night so clouds are not an issue. We'll observe at midnight each night so the daily rotation of the earth (or the universe in the FE mode) is not important. If you start in the far north and travel south you will observe stars seemingly to rotate over your head so some fall below the norther horizon and new ones emerge from the southern horizon. At the two north/south extremes of your trip the night sky will be radically different. This effect is observed the wold over and has been since people have been looking at the night sky.
Even in your 10x12 room you would expect to see the entire ceiling form anywhere in the room. Even in the FE model the stars are a lot farther way than the ceiling in a small room yet as we move north/south the entire sky, not just what is directly over our heads changes.
Clearly the shape of the earth has everything to do with it.
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You will see 20 degrees up if that is the angle at which your eyes are aimed. But it matters not when those stars you claim should be visible to you are below a 20 degree position. You act as if your unfamiliar with a protractor.
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You will see 20 degrees up if that is the angle at which your eyes are aimed. But it matters not when those stars you claim should be visible to you are below a 20 degree position. You act as if your unfamiliar with a protractor.
Are you suggesting the stars between zero elevation and 20 degree elevation are not visible?
Why?
Please explain the protractor reference. perhaps with a diagram to show what you mean.
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I am stating there is going to be interference with line of sight caused by objects arising from the earth with these stars and it is an impossibility for it to be otherwise.
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I am stating there is going to be interference with line of sight caused by objects arising from the earth with these stars and it is an impossibility for it to be otherwise.
Why does it matter? Forget the stars that you might not see due to obstructions, being generous cal that 20 degrees up from the horizon in all directions. Focus on the 140 degrees you can easily see in all directions. What is the explanation of why the stars in that region change as you move north/south such that at far north compared to far south latitude they are completely different. Exactly what you expect when changing your position on a sphere, exactly NOT what you expect when doing so on a plane.
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The stars don't look COMPLETELY different because, in the big scheme of things, we're hardly moving at all. We spin around once every 24 hours or so, cycle around the Sun once every 365 days, but in galactic terms, we're a drop in the ocean. A grain of sand on a big beach.
I've heard this size explanation before but it still sounds odd. If you were standing on a grain of sand flying through space I reckon your view is going to change dramatically from one moment to the next.[/quote]
Which is what happens to us here on Earth; specific constellations move across the sky overnight, according to our speed of rotation. In my case, they start in the south-east and arc over to south-west and beyond. That's a pretty drastic change in view, even though it takes a few hours to occur. They also appear differently according to the seasons.
But overall, the constellation stays exactly the same, year after year. Because it's so far away.
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I am stating there is going to be interference with line of sight caused by objects arising from the earth with these stars and it is an impossibility for it to be otherwise.
Yes, but ... so what?
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I am stating there is going to be interference with line of sight caused by objects arising from the earth with these stars and it is an impossibility for it to be otherwise.
Why does it matter? Forget the stars that you might not see due to obstructions, being generous cal that 20 degrees up from the horizon in all directions. Focus on the 140 degrees you can easily see in all directions. What is the explanation of why the stars in that region change as you move north/south such that at far north compared to far south latitude they are completely different. Exactly what you expect when changing your position on a sphere, exactly NOT what you expect when doing so on a plane.
The angle of the view certainly changes, and you certainly are viewing them from a different direction. Sounds more like a celestial sphere to me.
As I explained earlier, one would expect to see different things overhead as you move on the flat earth plane.
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I am stating there is going to be interference with line of sight caused by objects arising from the earth with these stars and it is an impossibility for it to be otherwise.
Why does it matter? Forget the stars that you might not see due to obstructions, being generous cal that 20 degrees up from the horizon in all directions. Focus on the 140 degrees you can easily see in all directions. What is the explanation of why the stars in that region change as you move north/south such that at far north compared to far south latitude they are completely different. Exactly what you expect when changing your position on a sphere, exactly NOT what you expect when doing so on a plane.
The angle of the view certainly changes, and you certainly are viewing them from a different direction. Sounds more like a celestial sphere to me.
As I explained earlier, one would expect to see different things overhead as you move on the flat earth plane.
As longitude varies at a far southern latitude (i.e. around the south pole) the stars are the same, despite according to the FE model that those places are very far apart (around the circumference of the disk), so the notion that you are just to far away to see the stars overhead does not hold. Further even with a big telescope you can not see stars that have fallen below the horizon compared to a different north/south position. The FE model does not begin to explain what we see.
Of course with a telescope you should also be able to see the sun from the night portion of the earth since its also not far away. Clearly just after "sunset" if it really i just moving too far away to be seen with the naked eye you could see it with a telescope. But we can not since it is being hidden by the planet. The FE model simply does not work.