Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1320 on: July 28, 2023, 08:48:25 AM »
The historical record is actually here in these threads

No, it isn't. ??? What a strange thing to say.

Quote
and it's funny you were not claiming any of this crap then that you are trotting out now

How is at all relevant what I did or didn't say in a post four years ago?
Because if these sources actually stated then what you are claiming they state now, it would have been trotted out then.

But thank you for the insight as to how revisionist history is so conveniently manufactured in this age of the AI internet.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1321 on: July 28, 2023, 09:02:10 AM »
Show me the evidence. Not Ted Cruz and another partisan stooge talking about all the evidence, but the actual evidence itself, or at least a summary of it from a trustworthy source, and then maybe I'll agree there's something there. That Republicans like Cruz are making wild promises about how super-duper corrupt the Bidens are means nothing. Also, a couple of highlights from that lengthy spiel:

The other guy there is the chair of the House Oversight Committee, who is talking about its current investigation into the Bidens. The explanation here is that either the House Oversight Committee is framing Biden, or that this is a legitimate investigation. Considering that you have not presented any evidence at all for your claims that Congress is framing Biden, it appears that we have more evidence that Biden is corrupt. Framing a sitting President is, of course, illegal, and you should get on with building a case for your wild claims.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1322 on: July 28, 2023, 12:44:45 PM »
Show me the evidence. Not Ted Cruz and another partisan stooge talking about all the evidence, but the actual evidence itself, or at least a summary of it from a trustworthy source, and then maybe I'll agree there's something there. That Republicans like Cruz are making wild promises about how super-duper corrupt the Bidens are means nothing. Also, a couple of highlights from that lengthy spiel:

The other guy there is the chair of the House Oversight Committee, who is talking about its current investigation into the Bidens. The explanation here is that either the House Oversight Committee is framing Biden, or that this is a legitimate investigation. Considering that you have not presented any evidence at all for your claims that Congress is framing Biden, it appears that we have more evidence that Biden is corrupt. Framing a sitting President is, of course, illegal, and you should get on with building a case for your wild claims.
Then I look forward to the results of the actual investigation.  Probably right after they investigate the voter fraud from the 2020 election, right?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline honk

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1323 on: July 28, 2023, 04:25:40 PM »
Because if these sources actually stated then what you are claiming they state now, it would have been trotted out then.

I really don't think you can be basing deductions about the non-existence of prominent sources purely on the whims of an online discussion. There are a million reasons why I or anyone else might address one but not another particular facet of a complex subject in any given post. Looking at the post of mine you quoted, it's pretty clear that I was talking about the validity of Trump's impeachment rather than whether or not the underlying claim that Biden was corrupt was true, and in particular that there didn't need to be an explicit quid pro quo for what Trump did to be an abuse of power. (I love how you responded with "So where's the explicit quid pro quo?" Great reading comprehension.) For what it's worth - in my view, nothing - Rama Set brought up the point that everyone wanted Shokin fired on the previous page of that thread, and I've discussed Shokin multiple times over the past few years. I don't know what makes this forum's records more trustworthy than that of the numerous websites I cited, and I find it very, very unlikely that all these websites could have planted those articles with false dates and pretended that it was information we've known for years with nobody noticing.

The explanation here is that either the House Oversight Committee is framing Biden, or that this is a legitimate investigation.

No, this is just a couple of prominent Republicans publicly lying about Biden and slandering him as a crook to rile up the base.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1324 on: July 28, 2023, 07:01:27 PM »
No, this is just a couple of prominent Republicans publicly lying about Biden and slandering him as a crook to rile up the base.

It's not just a couple of people "lying". The Oversight Committee is investigating the Bidens and what was posted was part of the investigation. Under your narrative of people "lying" Congress would need to be officially lying and framing the Bidens for crimes.

https://oversight.house.gov/landing/biden-family-investigation/







« Last Edit: July 28, 2023, 07:08:35 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Roundy

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1325 on: July 31, 2023, 08:43:18 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/31/politics/devon-archer-house-testimony/index.html

Well that was a bust. But if you keep digging, Republicans, maybe you can get President Biden to perjure himself over a blowjob or something.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1326 on: July 31, 2023, 09:42:36 PM »
"Former business partner says Hunter Biden sold ‘illusion’ of access to Joe Biden, source says"
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/31/politics/devon-archer-house-testimony/index.html

Just as I and undoubtedly others have speculated.  Hunter did not have to actually have any influence with his father to get high paying jobs where his employer wanted it to look like he had such.
The contents of the GPS NAV message is the time of transmission and the orbital location of the transmitter at that time. If the transmitters are not where they claim to be GPS would not work.  Since it does work the transmitters must in fact be in orbit, which means the earth is round.

Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1327 on: August 01, 2023, 12:17:58 AM »
Because if these sources actually stated then what you are claiming they state now, it would have been trotted out then.

I really don't think you can be basing deductions about the non-existence of prominent sources purely on the whims of an online discussion. There are a million reasons why I or anyone else might address one but not another particular facet of a complex subject in any given post. Looking at the post of mine you quoted, it's pretty clear that I was talking about the validity of Trump's impeachment rather than whether or not the underlying claim that Biden was corrupt was true, and in particular that there didn't need to be an explicit quid pro quo for what Trump did to be an abuse of power. (I love how you responded with "So where's the explicit quid pro quo?" Great reading comprehension.) For what it's worth - in my view, nothing - Rama Set brought up the point that everyone wanted Shokin fired on the previous page of that thread, and I've discussed Shokin multiple times over the past few years. I don't know what makes this forum's records more trustworthy than that of the numerous websites I cited, and I find it very, very unlikely that all these websites could have planted those articles with false dates and pretended that it was information we've known for years with nobody noticing.
And as I stated then, the entire US administration and the entire EU wanted him gone because he was investigating Burisma, which was funding the entire Democratic socialist enterprise. You didn't bring up any revisionist history bullcrap then, because it wasn't written then as it is in your latest line of malarkey you are trotting out.
The explanation here is that either the House Oversight Committee is framing Biden, or that this is a legitimate investigation.
No, this is just a couple of prominent Republicans publicly lying about Biden and slandering him as a crook to rile up the base.
What's the lie?
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1328 on: August 01, 2023, 08:05:08 PM »
Wow. Democrats have been backed into a corner have resorted to this new narrative they that bribery did occur, but Joe Biden wasn't part of it:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/08/01/democrats-hunter-biden-sold-business-partners-an-illusion-of-access-to-joe-biden/



This doesn't hold up of course, and only digs the Democrats into a deeper hole. We are expected to believe that foreign entities continually paid millions of dollars for something they did not get:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12361723/MAUREEN-CALLAHAN-Damning-testimony-shows-Biden-reeks-corruption-despite-Democrats-attempts-bury-truth-Dont-know-theyre-throwing-away-2024-Joes-biggest-liability.html

    CNN: 'Hunter Biden sold 'illusion' of access to Joe Biden.'

    Sure. What foreign entities would continue to spend millions with no return on their investment?

It is clear this narrative by the Democrats is a poor-effort excuse and lie. In the testimony it was admitted that Burisma pressured Hunter Biden to do something about the prosecutor that was giving them trouble.

https://nypost.com/2023/07/31/ex-hunter-biden-partner-devon-archer-arrives-for-house-deposition/

    According to Archer, Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky —  who allegedly told an FBI informant in 2016 he was “coerced” to pay $10 million in bribes to Hunter and Joe Biden — put intense pressure on Hunter in late 2015 to enlist US support for ousting Ukrainian prosecutor-general Viktor Shokin, who had investigated Burisma, the Republican readout said.

Joe Biden took care of it:



Honk and Roundy want us to believe that the prosecutor really was corrupt and it is only a coincidence that the Bidens were receiving millions of dollars from the company that was being prosecuted, and that it was only a coincidence that they pressured Hunter Biden to take care of it. It is one coincidence after the next.

And now, with this new narrative, we are expected to believe that corruption occurred, but everyone involved was corrupt except for Joe Biden, who was somehow fooled by his son in his son's corrupt bribery business dealings. Hunter Biden is the bad and evil one who is tricking his father into policy decisions. What an odd and increasingly desperate argument this is turning into.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2023, 08:33:05 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1329 on: August 01, 2023, 08:39:35 PM »
Wow. Democrats have been backed into a corner have resorted to this new narrative they that bribery did occur, but Joe Biden wasn't part of it:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/08/01/democrats-hunter-biden-sold-business-partners-an-illusion-of-access-to-joe-biden/



This doesn't hold up of course, and only digs the Democrats into a deeper hole. We are expected to believe that foreign entities continually paid millions of dollars for something they did not get:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12361723/MAUREEN-CALLAHAN-Damning-testimony-shows-Biden-reeks-corruption-despite-Democrats-attempts-bury-truth-Dont-know-theyre-throwing-away-2024-Joes-biggest-liability.html

    CNN: 'Hunter Biden sold 'illusion' of access to Joe Biden.'

    Sure. What foreign entities would continue to spend millions with no return on their investment?

It is clear this narrative by the Democrats is a poor-effort excuse and lie. In the testimony it was admitted that Burisma pressured Hunter Biden to do something about the prosecutor that was giving them trouble.

https://nypost.com/2023/07/31/ex-hunter-biden-partner-devon-archer-arrives-for-house-deposition/

    According to Archer, Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky —  who allegedly told an FBI informant in 2016 he was “coerced” to pay $10 million in bribes to Hunter and Joe Biden — put intense pressure on Hunter in late 2015 to enlist US support for ousting Ukrainian prosecutor-general Viktor Shokin, who had investigated Burisma, the Republican readout said.

Joe Biden took care of it:



Honk and Roundy want us to believe that the prosecutor really was corrupt and it is only a coincidence that the Bidens were receiving millions of dollars from the company that was being prosecuted, and that it was only a coincidence that they pressured Hunter Biden to take care of it.

And now, with this new narrative, we are expected to believe that corruption occurred, but everyone involved was corrupt except for Joe Biden, who was somehow fooled by his son in his son's corrupt bribery business dealings. What an odd and increasingly desperate argument this is turning into.
In fairness, Elon Musk spent Billions and is getting no Return on Investment.  Or profit.  Or an easier life.  So that part actually makes sense. 

But really... why fire him in 2015 when the investigation began in 2012?  Seems like an awfully long time to wait before pressuing Ukraine to fire someone, eh?
And why did  Vitaly Kasko provide documentation of a dormant investigation?
And why did the investigation only focus on the years prior to Hunter biden being put on the board?

Seems all oddly uncoincidental that all these things aren't related to Hunter Biden...
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline markjo

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1330 on: August 01, 2023, 08:45:22 PM »
It is clear this narrative by the Democrats is a poor-effort excuse and lie. In the testimony it was admitted that Burisma pressured Hunter Biden to do something about the prosecutor that was giving them trouble.

https://nypost.com/2023/07/31/ex-hunter-biden-partner-devon-archer-arrives-for-house-deposition/

    According to Archer, Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky —  who allegedly told an FBI informant in 2016 he was “coerced” to pay $10 million in bribes to Hunter and Joe Biden — put intense pressure on Hunter in late 2015 to enlist US support for ousting Ukrainian prosecutor-general Viktor Shokin, who had investigated Burisma, the Republican readout said.

Joe Biden took care of it:

But did he really?
However, there are two big problems with the narrative presented by Trump and Giuliani, according to activists in Ukraine and others.

For one thing, Ukrainian prosecutors and anti-corruption advocates who were pushing for an investigation into the dealings of Burisma and its owner, Mykola Zlochevskiy, said the probe had been dormant long before Biden leveled his demand.

"There was no pressure from anyone from the United States" to close the case against Zlochevskiy, Vitaliy Kasko, who was a deputy prosecutor-general under Shokin and is now first deputy prosecutor-general, told Bloomberg News in May. "It was shelved by Ukrainian prosecutors in 2014 and through 2015," he added.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1331 on: August 01, 2023, 10:16:12 PM »
The only ones trying to sell a narrative is the Republicans, who are desperate for a scandal (any scandal!) involving Biden to deflect from the fact that their likely candidate is in seriously deep shit. The Democrats have the facts on their side. The line about "selling the illusion" doesn't come from some spin doctors, it comes directly from the latest star witness that was supposed to blow the Biden Crime Family's ( ;D) corruption wide open, and ended up being yet another dud, because the Biden Crime Family is a figment of the imagination.

If there's evidence of corruption on Joe's part I'm sure it will come out. Unfortunately all the Repugnicans have been able to produce are half-baked accusations and conspiracy theories. But I wish them all the luck, if Biden really is the master criminal they desperately want the public to  believe he is then it should be exposed.

On the other hand there are REAMS of evidence damning Trump. And as a bonus Biden never tried to overthrow the government, so on balance I think he's the better candidate.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2023, 10:18:21 PM by Roundy »
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
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Offline honk

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1332 on: August 02, 2023, 02:38:06 AM »
And as I stated then, the entire US administration and the entire EU wanted him gone because he was investigating Burisma, which was funding the entire Democratic socialist enterprise. You didn't bring up any revisionist history bullcrap then, because it wasn't written then as it is in your latest line of malarkey you are trotting out.

Just to be clear, you believe that almost the entire media have colluded to carefully construct an elaborate retroactive narrative by planting numerous fabricated and falsely-dated articles, nobody noticed this blatant rewriting of history but you, and your sole evidence for believing this is the fact that a guy on the Internet didn't cite these articles during a discussion on a related (not even the same, just related) subject a few years ago?

Also, while I don't plan on doing this with every article I linked, I checked for the Bloomberg article on the Internet Archive. It's been copied over seven hundred times between now and its supposed publication date, with the earliest being this one from that same day, May 7th, 2019. How does this square with your theory of the article being posted recently and falsely dated? Is the Archive in on this conspiracy?

Wow. Democrats have been backed into a corner have resorted to this new narrative they that bribery did occur, but Joe Biden wasn't part of it:

Yes, Hunter Biden is sleazy and corrupt. We already knew this. Nobody has ever tried to deny it. You keep making the same basic observation over and over again and acting each time like it's brand new information. It's not.

Quote
We are expected to believe that foreign entities continually paid millions of dollars for something they did not get:

...

Sure. What foreign entities would continue to spend millions with no return on their investment?

Wealthy corporations and individuals (not sure what difference it makes if they're foreign) make poor investments and waste lots of money all the time. And if we're going to go down this route of "common sense" arguments that don't rely on actual evidence, then I have two of my own to make. Why would Biden partner with someone as flaky as his son for his criminal schemes? Hunter has been a drug addict for years, and he's well known for his wild partying and cavorting with prostitutes. Surely Joe would have enough connections through his decades in politics to find himself a far more reliable and discreet partner. Also, do you think that Hunter himself would be keeping quiet about it if Joe were connected with his crimes? This is the guy who made a move on his brother's widow and, as previously discussed, isn't enough of a man to be a part of his young daughter's life or even properly acknowledge her existence. He's a selfish, weak man with no real loyalty to his family. If he had been working with his father, he would have flipped on him a long time ago.

Quote
Honk and Roundy want us to believe that the prosecutor really was corrupt and it is only a coincidence that the Bidens were receiving millions of dollars from the company that was being prosecuted, and that it was only a coincidence that they pressured Hunter Biden to take care of it. It is one coincidence after the next.

And now, with this new narrative, we are expected to believe that corruption occurred, but everyone involved was corrupt except for Joe Biden, who was somehow fooled by his son in his son's corrupt bribery business dealings. Hunter Biden is the bad and evil one who is tricking his father into policy decisions. What an odd and increasingly desperate argument this is turning into.

No, it's not a coincidence. Burisma certainly hired Hunter in the hopes that he could curry favor with his father. But firing Shokin was not a result of this, because he was widely viewed as corrupt by the international community and the investigation into Burisma was dormant. Biden did not protect Burisma by demanding that Shokin be fired. That's simply not what happened, and it's pig-headed denialism to stick your fingers in your ears and pretend it was otherwise.

That being said, though, I do appreciate you linking me the webpage from Congress that has actual documents on it rather than just a Twitter link to Ted Cruz bloviating on camera. I'll look into their claims and see what case they've made.
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Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1333 on: August 02, 2023, 12:38:20 PM »
And as I stated then, the entire US administration and the entire EU wanted him gone because he was investigating Burisma, which was funding the entire Democratic socialist enterprise. You didn't bring up any revisionist history bullcrap then, because it wasn't written then as it is in your latest line of malarkey you are trotting out.

Just to be clear, you believe that almost the entire media have colluded to carefully construct an elaborate retroactive narrative by planting numerous fabricated and falsely-dated articles, nobody noticed this blatant rewriting of history but you, and your sole evidence for believing this is the fact that a guy on the Internet didn't cite these articles during a discussion on a related (not even the same, just related) subject a few years ago?

Also, while I don't plan on doing this with every article I linked, I checked for the Bloomberg article on the Internet Archive. It's been copied over seven hundred times between now and its supposed publication date, with the earliest being this one from that same day, May 7th, 2019. How does this square with your theory of the article being posted recently and falsely dated? Is the Archive in on this conspiracy?
WEB ARCHIVE!!!! TOTALLY LEGIT!!!! HONEST!!!!

...the investigation into Burisma was dormant...
ITT^ Saddam - "Shokin wasn't investigating Burisma...therefore he was fired."
        Saddam - "Shokin was investigating Burisma...I cannot get my own story straight."

Yeah, we can see why you cannot get your facts straight, Saddam.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2023, 12:39:59 PM by Action80 »
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline honk

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1334 on: August 02, 2023, 01:00:25 PM »
There had been an investigation into Burisma, but it was dormant. Therefore, Shokim was not investigating Burisma.
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Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1335 on: August 02, 2023, 02:59:20 PM »
There had been an investigation into Burisma, but it was dormant. Therefore, Shokim was not investigating Burisma.
ITT^ Saddam states his undying belief that all investigations must be continuously ongoing and in the news in order to be considered active.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1336 on: August 02, 2023, 04:40:18 PM »
There had been an investigation into Burisma, but it was dormant. Therefore, Shokim was not investigating Burisma.
ITT^ Saddam states his undying belief that all investigations must be continuously ongoing and in the news in order to be considered active.

Yes.
If an investigation is not ongoing its inactive.  (News not required)
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1337 on: August 09, 2023, 01:07:00 PM »
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1338 on: August 09, 2023, 02:42:35 PM »
Joe Biden is helping to save the middle class.

https://fortune.com/2023/08/08/ups-drivers-170000-union-agreement-teamsters-middle-class-bidenomics/

Thanks Joe!

I can't read it but I know several people who drove for ups.  Or rather a contractor for ups.  They have few if any actual drivers and rely on local contractors which are kept on a stupidly tight leash.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline honk

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #1339 on: August 17, 2023, 02:13:58 AM »
Just so you guys know, the latest scandal rocking Biden's world is that his press secretary accidentally tweeted something from her own account that looks like it was supposed to have been sent from Biden's account instead, which proves that Biden...has a comms team, like literally any other politician in the world. I guess that's a bad thing when you're used to Trump's spontaneous shitposting.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y