Offline Action80

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2022, 06:57:21 PM »
It is quite frequently observed that both objects appear much larger when they are on the horizon.
You don't ever tire of being wrong, do you?

Quote from: Kristine Seppkins, Ph.D, Cornell
That the Sun appears larger when it is on the horizon is just an optical illusion. The brain thinks that objects on the horizon should be farther away than objects overhead; since the Sun is the same apparent size in both places, the brain concludes that the Sun is physically bigger when it's on the horizon, and thus tricks you into thinking that the angular size is bigger than when it's overhead. This phenomenon is known as the Ponzo Illusion, and occurs for the Moon as well.

To convince yourself that this is, in fact, an optical illusion, put your head between your legs and look at the Sun upside down when it's on the horizon: it should look the same as it does when overhead.

For more information about the "larger Sun" and other astronomical myths, check out Phil Plait's article (now on the Moon and not the Sun but it's the same idea!).

Quoted from here.
Actually, you are the one who never tires of being wrong.

The source you provide states quite clearly that it appears larger.

Offering an explanation of why something appears larger actually serves to confirm it appears larger.

Thank you for confirming my statement.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline BillO

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2022, 07:05:39 PM »
Did you miss the word illusion in there?  ::)
Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

Offline Action80

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2022, 07:12:43 PM »
Did you miss the word illusion in there?  ::)
Nope. Did you miss the word appear?

Or are you claiming illusions do not appear?
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Offline Bibi

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2022, 07:13:01 PM »
Your discussion about the sun/ moon size is quite interesting, so I don’t mind if you keep doing that here.

But would also he nice if someone could answer my question about why it looks like more and more of the sun disappears behind the “horizon”?
And also why the sunrise is not only gradually getting brighter, but all of a sudden gets a lot brighter when you can see the first sun rays?

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Offline BillO

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2022, 07:24:50 PM »
Did you miss the word illusion in there?  ::)
Nope. Did you miss the word appear?
No I didn't, however I know how English works.  The sentence clearly says that it is an illusion that "the Sun appears bigger".  This means it does not appear bigger, it's just an illusion.  Did you also miss the sentence structure?  It did not just say "The sun appears larger"  it said "That the sun appears larger" as in they are referring to the statement "The sun appears larger" and go on to explain that it is incorrect.
 ???
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

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Online stack

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2022, 07:39:06 PM »
We can find all kinds of images that show progressive, consistent, non-circle of confusion, some with glare, some with not shrinkage™...







Offline Action80

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2022, 08:52:44 PM »
Did you miss the word illusion in there?  ::)
Nope. Did you miss the word appear?
No I didn't, however I know how English works.  The sentence clearly says that it is an illusion that "the Sun appears bigger".  This means it does not appear bigger, it's just an illusion.  Did you also miss the sentence structure?  It did not just say "The sun appears larger"  it said "That the sun appears larger" as in they are referring to the statement "The sun appears larger" and go on to explain that it is incorrect.
 ???
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Evidently, you do not know how English works.

David Copperfield caused an elephant, that was appearing in front of my eyes, to disappear.

But it was an illusion.

Illusions are fundamentally based on how things appear.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline BillO

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2022, 09:14:46 PM »
Did you miss the word illusion in there?  ::)
Nope. Did you miss the word appear?
No I didn't, however I know how English works.  The sentence clearly says that it is an illusion that "the Sun appears bigger".  This means it does not appear bigger, it's just an illusion.  Did you also miss the sentence structure?  It did not just say "The sun appears larger"  it said "That the sun appears larger" as in they are referring to the statement "The sun appears larger" and go on to explain that it is incorrect.
 ???
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Evidently, you do not know how English works.

David Copperfield caused an elephant, that was appearing in front of my eyes, to disappear.

But it was an illusion.

Illusions are fundamentally based on how things appear.
Go ask a 5th grader to explain it to you, if they are normal they would know this.

Copperfield made the elephant disappear.  One second you saw it, the next you didn't.  It may have still been there, but he arranged it so you could no longer see it.

The sun does not appear larger on the horizon, you just think it does, but you can easily verify that it doesn't by doing the experiment she suggested.

I give up.   Go find that 5th grader.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 09:22:09 PM by BillO »
Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2022, 09:16:24 PM »
Illusions are fundamentally based on how things appear.
Actually, illusions are fundamentally based on things not being as they appear.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#firePete

Offline Action80

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2022, 10:14:36 PM »
Illusions are fundamentally based on how things appear.
Actually, illusions are fundamentally based on things not being as they appear.
You cannot have an illusion unless there is something appearing.

So, the "appear" needs to come first.

Bullwinkle knows this, yet still tries to argue against fundamental English.

It does not matter why the sun and moon appear larger.

The fact is this: They do appear larger.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline markjo

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2022, 11:33:08 PM »
Illusions are fundamentally based on how things appear.
Actually, illusions are fundamentally based on things not being as they appear.
You cannot have an illusion unless there is something appearing.
Or, in the case of the your magician, something disappearing.

So, the "appear" needs to come first.

Bullwinkle knows this, yet still tries to argue against fundamental English.
Arguing semantics is exceedingly tedious and distracts from the important point.

It does not matter why the sun and moon appear larger.

The fact is this: They do appear larger.
Right.  What matters is that fact that the sun and moon appearing larger is not the reality of the situation.  If you wanted to take the trouble of properly measuring the size of the sun at noon and at sunset, you would find that they are exactly the same size.  That is not what one would expect if the earth was flat and the sun was physically moving across the sky.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 11:56:38 PM by markjo »
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#firePete

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Offline BillO

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2022, 11:49:52 PM »
The fact is this: They do appear larger.
That we will categorize as a flat earth type fact = total fiction.
Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2022, 12:06:17 AM »
https://wiki.tfes.org/Magnification_of_the_Sun_at_Sunset

How does glare make these lights in the distance in this embedded video relatively the same size exactly? What property of glare makes distant lights the same size?

Let me see if I have this right.  It is being claimed that the sun at sunset (when it's furthest away from the observer) appears larger than the sun at noon (when the sun would be closest to the observer), correct?  If so, then why are you presenting a photograph where the nearer street lights appear larger than the street lamps in distance as evidence?  Isn't that pretty much the exact opposite of the claim?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2022, 12:08:29 AM by markjo »
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#firePete

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Online stack

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2022, 02:05:49 AM »
You cannot have an illusion unless there is something appearing.

Can you have an illusion that makes things disappear?

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Offline BillO

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2022, 03:59:57 AM »
It does not matter why the sun and moon appear larger.

The fact is this: They do appear larger.
Right.  What matters is that fact that the sun and moon appearing larger is not the reality of the situation.  If you wanted to take the trouble of properly measuring the size of the sun at noon and at sunset, you would find that they are exactly the same size.  That is not what one would expect if the earth was flat and the sun was physically moving across the sky.

I'm going to have to disagree markjo.  AchtungAteHe is not right.  The word "appear" does not allow for imagined errors.  It just means you can see it.  The Sun (or moon) does not "appear" larger.  It appears, and if you measure it it will not be larger.  The "larger" comes from your brain.  You may be "seeing" it larger, but it does not "appear" larger.

There, the pedantic semantic shit is out of the way.  Use "see" not "appear" for crap the your brain makes up.

All that aside, the language in the post I provided is correct.  And the treatment of the situation therein is correct.  Lackey is wrong - as usual.
Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

Re: Sunset
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2022, 05:57:36 AM »
The fact is this: They do appear larger.
You are getting far too bogged down with semantics. They do appear larger in the sense that this is how we perceive them. In the same way that the three men in this drawing appear to be getting larger:

https://therealweeklyshow.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/5-more-mind-bending-optical-illusions/#jp-carousel-1950

But in reality they aren’t. And the moon and sun aren’t really getting larger either. It’s an optical illusion and you can take measurements to prove that. The reality is the angular size remains constant. And the reason for that is the distance remains constant. Which proves your FE model wrong.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2022, 07:24:28 AM »
Illusions are fundamentally based on how things appear.
Actually, illusions are fundamentally based on things not being as they appear.
You cannot have an illusion unless there is something appearing.
Or, in the case of the your magician, something disappearing.

So, the "appear" needs to come first.

Bullwinkle knows this, yet still tries to argue against fundamental English.
Arguing semantics is exceedingly tedious and distracts from the important point.

It does not matter why the sun and moon appear larger.

The fact is this: They do appear larger.
Right.  What matters is that fact that the sun and moon appearing larger is not the reality of the situation.  If you wanted to take the trouble of properly measuring the size of the sun at noon and at sunset, you would find that they are exactly the same size.  That is not what one would expect if the earth was flat and the sun was physically moving across the sky.
How is it that you can possibly claim to lecture anyone about how things would seem in a world you so vehemently deny?

The sun and moon appear larger.

That is all there is to it. 
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Offline Action80

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2022, 07:28:41 AM »
The fact is this: They do appear larger.
That we will categorize as a flat earth type fact = total fiction.
Except it is not total fiction.

You even posted a source stating the exact same thing.

Gaslighting is the only thing you got.

Sad.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Offline Action80

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Re: Sunset
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2022, 07:32:06 AM »
https://wiki.tfes.org/Magnification_of_the_Sun_at_Sunset

How does glare make these lights in the distance in this embedded video relatively the same size exactly? What property of glare makes distant lights the same size?

Let me see if I have this right.  It is being claimed that the sun at sunset (when it's furthest away from the observer) appears larger than the sun at noon (when the sun would be closest to the observer), correct?  If so, then why are you presenting a photograph where the nearer street lights appear larger than the street lamps in distance as evidence?  Isn't that pretty much the exact opposite of the claim?
Let me see if I get this right> Markjo is claiming the closer lights appear larger when that is not the case at all.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Re: Sunset
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2022, 08:29:29 AM »
The sun and moon appear larger.

That is all there is to it.
Well no, that isn’t all there is to it.
As I noted above they may appear larger but that is merely an optical illusion. I gave another example above where things appear different sizes but are in fact the same.
In reality the sun and moon maintain a consistent angular size. That can be measured. The simplest explanation for that is that they are a consistent distance. FE has to invent a mechanism to explain this.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"