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Offline Tom Bishop

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Reasons to consider a Space Travel Conspiracy
« on: April 02, 2021, 05:03:55 PM »
Often we get questions along the lines of "why should we believe that it's fake," or "why should NASA be distrusted." The reasons to consider a Space Travel Conspiracy are numerous, and deserves a section of its own. We should contribute to this section with the rational behind the logic.

This thread will be a scrapbook for a range of topics:

Logic

   - A logical basis for skepticism

Philosophy of Science

   - Each generation of science is based on questioning supposed truths

Skeptical Scholars

   - Scholars who were skeptical of government and scientific claims

Military Incentive

   - Why space travel is connected to military

Historical Examples (for why distrust should be the default)

   - Governments Lie - Examples of government lies throughout history
   -- US Government Lies - Examples of the US Government's lies throughout history

Direct Evidence

   - The Apollo/Shuttle/DISCOVR anomalies

Other Topics:

    - International Space Programs may not be independent
    - The Three Body Problem raises questions on NASA's claims of Solar System navigation
    - Contradicting Experimental Evidence ( ie. the earth-based geocentric experiments which suggest the earth doesn't move [on the horizontal] contradicts NASA's claim that it does)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 07:52:33 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Reasons to consider a Space Travel Conspiracy
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2021, 07:05:30 PM »
A Logical Basis for Skepticisim

On many supposed claims or facts if you were to ask yourself "Are you sure?" in repetition and attempted to provide justification you will find that after a few sequences of this you don't really know much. Outsize of a few basic philosophical concepts such as "do we exist in some form?" it is difficult to say what is true or false. If we cannot be sure of what is true and false it is only logical that we adopt a skepticism against everything, even cherished concepts drilled into us from childhood.


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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Reasons to consider a Space Travel Conspiracy
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2021, 07:27:36 PM »
One tactic in dealing with hypotheticals such as this is to consider not why authorities would want to do this, which is a question only they could truly answer due to their specific situation, but to question whether it is plausible that this could occur in a scenario.

If you were to wake up one day in a foreign universe of unknown laws, on a foreign world, in the body of an unknown creature, in a society and political hierarchy of creatures entirely outside of known experience, could you be confident that their history and science and fundamental beliefs were accurate? Could you be confident that there were not those who wish to control you into believing in something? Of course not, no matter what your new society tells you. As far as you know there is a tyrannical system of control in place by political bodies, by alien or supernatural beings, that you could be in a computer simulation, or that the inhabitants of this world have a certain underlying religiosity which prevents them from considering something. Anything could be possible. As you adopt yourself into their society a reasonable course of action is to not blindly trust or assume its professed facts to be true, but to take it under consideration and to eschew the knowledge until a time when you can convince yourself of it, which may be never.

It is clear that someone waking up into such a foreign world would be far more skeptical than someone indoctrinated into it from birth. A question then naturally arises; how could you be so sure that you are not a member of that foreign society?

« Last Edit: November 19, 2021, 07:39:45 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Reasons to consider a Space Travel Conspiracy
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2021, 02:07:34 AM »
The Dream of Space Travel

The concept of space travel holds a very dear and special place amongst civilization. For thousands of years civilization has dreamt of an ultimate goal of exploring foreign worlds, of reaching the stars, and living in space. Since the conception of the Round Earth in classical antiquity every era has progressed with this dream as its goal. We can find stories from thousands of years ago featuring space ships, ventures to strange planets and interstellar wars. Stories of space fiction permeated society, entertained children, and inspired young minds, breeding a civilization of people who wanted to explore the universe. It was assumed that we lived on a planet, that space was boundless in extent, that there were other worlds similar to our own, that they could one day be reached and explored and perhaps we could even meet alien species.

It was a marvelous and fantastic dream. A dream which is still cherished in all of us.

While space was always a dream and goal of civilization since the Ancient Greeks, the focus of specific adoration by the populous changed with time. In early eras of conquest the knight was the primary hero of society, which still permeates in media and literature. The cowboy was the hero of the American Frontier. The soldier was the hero of WWII. Afterwards, at the dawn of the space age, the spaceman became the hero of popular media. He was seen to explore space, to conduct science in space, and fight in space, elevating the dreams of space travel into focus. Children were bombarded with images of Donald Duck exploring the moon. Young adults with fictions of Buck Rogers and Star Trek. Countless Science Fiction stories were written, with higher professions happily speculating about  transgenerational space ships, dyson spheres, and terraforming foreign worlds. We believed in space travel with a deep passion and saw it as our civilization's future path. At the dawn of the space age this is what society wanted, and what society demanded.

What if, for some reason, such space travel as it was previously conceived was not technically feasible? If you told society that you could not do it then they simply would not believe you and would demand that you try harder. It must be possible. It has to be possible.  Anything else is an embarrassment to humanity. If you couldn't do it, the hearts and minds would turn their attention to someone else who could foster hope of their dream.

In aftermath of WWII the two largest remaining powers, United States and Soviet Union, hedged its bets on rockets and space as the next frontier. Following the guidelines of fiction, we needed space weapons and space reconnaissance. Hitler's V2 rocket was replicated and improved to provide a basis for missiles thought necessary to protect the homeland and bring in mutually assured destruction, ushering in a relative worldwide peace and prosperity. Our grasp of space technologies were utilized to send a man to the moon and send space probes to explore the solar system, to cries of joy and admiration worldwide. All of this was preconceptualized in inventive fiction to a surprising degree and was expected to happen in civilization’s ultimate progress towards the stars.

Things tend to happen because society wants it to happen. We create want and it turns into reality. We wanted freedom of speech so we got freedom of speech. Social dynamics changed over time and society wanted women to be equal in status to men, so it became so. Society began working longer hours and wanted more energy in the morning so we cultured coffee plants and invented energy drinks. Society wants to feel that they are special, and so there are a plethora of organizations telling you that you are special. If society wants it, it tends to happen. The entire world is designed and created based on what we want, and clashes happen when we disagree with each other and want different things.

The simple truth is that our civilization universally wanted space travel, so it happened. While skeptical organizations, such as the Flat Earth Society, continues to question how it happened and the veracity of these claims, it is undeniable that the motivation of space travel was based on a dream deeply embedded into the fabric of our civilization since an early time. It was a dream.

Alas, it was only a dream.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 06:17:48 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Reasons to consider a Space Travel Conspiracy
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2021, 07:21:53 AM »
A World Based on Lying

As we grow older we come to understand that our world is an onion with layers of lies, each more sinister than the last. On the surface the lies are indoctrinated and taught to be acceptable. We lie, we are told lies, and we are happy with lies.

When meeting a romantic interest a practice is to be a little less than honest with them by playing up a trait with flattery or by presenting yourself in a light somewhat inconsistent with reality. We have fake lawns, tell each other that we are “fine” even if we are not, and deny our own faults. We idealize those who tell us what we want to hear, even if it is disputable. We tell children outrageous like the existence of Santa Claus and find it to be perfectly palatable.

The entire concept of business is basically based on lying to customers. Buying a product for a low price and selling it for a higher price is fundamentally a lie; arguably unethical and not something you would do to a family member. Contrived “luxury” items, putting product on "sale", using models in advertisements to attract interest, uninvited pop-up advertising and on and on, are all arguably inherently unethical but accepted as standard practice.

Politicians use lies to garner public support and make promises that they know are unlikely to be fulfilled. They take money from business lobbying groups, promise the world, and once in power are often caught up in one scandal after the next. The banks lie with a fiat monetary system which involves lending out more money than they have in reserves. The news lies to you, framing events to drive you towards a certain editorial slant. In our pastime we will even entertain ourselves by deliberately watching lies to stimulate our emotions.

The Military is largely based on deception, and protecting those lies is considered to be honorable. Laws have been made to keep secrets secret, and allow the government to take down classified information and prevent news agencies from reporting it. We all know that if we post classified weapons plans onto the internet that we would face stringent penalties, risk our freedom, and the content won’t spread very far. State secrets are enforced by the rule of law, foreign cooperation, compliance of the media, and the bullet of a gun if necessary.

In a world of lies the US Government, which plays a lead role in NATO and the United Nations, is not above conducting secret wars (Pentagon Papers), protecting war criminals (Project Paperclip), and conducting medical experiments on you without your knowledge (MK-Ultra, Tuskegee), so what makes you think that they have qualms about lying to you about space travel? If the US wants it, if Russia wants it, if the entire human civilization wants it, wants tend to become reality.

Next: Pentagon Papers
« Last Edit: November 21, 2021, 11:12:42 PM by Tom Bishop »