Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1360 on: November 01, 2014, 11:12:10 PM »
He didn't cause it. He gave the land to the Jews. The fact that there is a group too dense to see that is not his fault. He also blessed Ishmael. The fact that Ishmael doesn't get it right cannot be held against God.

Ghost of V

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1361 on: November 01, 2014, 11:14:11 PM »
He didn't cause it. He gave the land to the Jews. The fact that there is a group too dense to see that is not his fault. He also blessed Ishmael. The fact that Ishmael doesn't get it right cannot be held against God.

He caused it by exclusively giving land to the Jews instead of to everyone, or to no one.

That's called favoritism and it's usually viewed as a negative thing. Why would God practice favoritism? Shouldn't he view all his creations as equal? Why would God have such a negative character trait? Could it be that he doesn't actually exist??

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1362 on: November 01, 2014, 11:18:32 PM »
He didn't cause it. He gave the land to the Jews. The fact that there is a group too dense to see that is not his fault. He also blessed Ishmael. The fact that Ishmael doesn't get it right cannot be held against God.

He caused it by exclusively giving land to the Jews instead of to everyone, or to no one.

That's called favoritism and it's usually viewed as a negative thing. Why would God practice favoritism? Shouldn't he view all his creations as equal? Why would God have such a negative character trait? Could it be that he doesn't actually exist??

Good question! The reason God gave land to the Jews is because we are a nation set apart for God's service. We are the pristhood, the holy kingdom between God and man. I don't know if that is understandable to anyone other than a Jew.

Ghost of V

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1363 on: November 01, 2014, 11:25:00 PM »
He didn't cause it. He gave the land to the Jews. The fact that there is a group too dense to see that is not his fault. He also blessed Ishmael. The fact that Ishmael doesn't get it right cannot be held against God.

He caused it by exclusively giving land to the Jews instead of to everyone, or to no one.

That's called favoritism and it's usually viewed as a negative thing. Why would God practice favoritism? Shouldn't he view all his creations as equal? Why would God have such a negative character trait? Could it be that he doesn't actually exist??

Good question! The reason God gave land to the Jews is because we are a nation set apart for God's service. We are the pristhood, the holy kingdom between God and man. I don't know if that is understandable to anyone other than a Jew.

Still sounds like favoritism.

"the practice of giving unfair preferential treatment to one person or group at the expense of another."

Unfair. That's exactly what it is. Surely God knows the difference between right and wrong, right? Surely he knew the outcome before actually giving the land to the Jews... which means he knew that it would lead to bloodshed. Why would he do something that leads to such a gruesome outcome? Isn't he all knowing?

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1364 on: November 01, 2014, 11:30:34 PM »
Of course he is. I expect he did know. But that does not change the fact that God had to choose a perfect nation to light the way for others. The damage caused from that cannot be led to God's door. "I shall bless those who bless thee, and curse those who curse thee."

Ghost of V

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1365 on: November 01, 2014, 11:35:19 PM »
The damage caused from that cannot be led to God's door.

It can be when he willingly gave special treatment to a group of people knowing that the outcome would be disastrous. Why is God exempt from blame?  ???

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1366 on: November 01, 2014, 11:38:59 PM »
The damage caused from that cannot be led to God's door.

It can be when he willingly gave special treatment to a group of people knowing that the outcome would be disastrous. Why is God exempt from blame?  ???

Primarily for one simple reason; He is God. WHATEVER he decides, for whatever reason, is just by definition, since he creates the definitions.

Ghost of V

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1367 on: November 01, 2014, 11:43:23 PM »
The damage caused from that cannot be led to God's door.

It can be when he willingly gave special treatment to a group of people knowing that the outcome would be disastrous. Why is God exempt from blame?  ???

Primarily for one simple reason; He is God. WHATEVER he decides, for whatever reason, is just by definition, since he creates the definitions.


Yeah, he created everything. We know.

He also created favoritism. Then created death and war... which are usually considered bad things. Do you agree that God willingly created war?

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1368 on: November 01, 2014, 11:49:24 PM »
The damage caused from that cannot be led to God's door.

It can be when he willingly gave special treatment to a group of people knowing that the outcome would be disastrous. Why is God exempt from blame?  ???

Primarily for one simple reason; He is God. WHATEVER he decides, for whatever reason, is just by definition, since he creates the definitions.


Yeah, he created everything. We know.

He also created favoritism. Then created death and war... which are usually considered bad things. Do you agree that God willingly created war?

No, humans created those things. God's treatment of the Jews is not favourtism. It is the creation of a people to serve the world.

Ghost of V

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1369 on: November 01, 2014, 11:50:29 PM »
He also created favoritism. Then created death and war... which are usually considered bad things. Do you agree that God willingly created war?

No, humans created those things. God's treatment of the Jews is not favourtism. It is the creation of a people to serve the world.

God created humans. God created those things by proxy.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1370 on: November 01, 2014, 11:52:38 PM »
Must eat and walk dog. Be back later.

Ghost of V

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1371 on: November 01, 2014, 11:55:06 PM »
Must eat and walk dog. Be back later.

How can you walk your dog after eating it?

Man, Jews are weird.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1372 on: November 02, 2014, 12:31:23 AM »
Why are you ignoring God's path and living in the US instead of Israel?

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1373 on: November 02, 2014, 01:01:31 AM »
Of course he is. I expect he did know. But that does not change the fact that God had to choose a perfect nation to light the way for others. The damage caused from that cannot be led to God's door. "I shall bless those who bless thee, and curse those who curse thee."
They are doing a very poor job at it.  Also, why land that was already occupied?  Why not empty land?  Would have solved A lot of problems.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1374 on: November 02, 2014, 12:28:36 PM »
He also created favoritism. Then created death and war... which are usually considered bad things. Do you agree that God willingly created war?

No, humans created those things. God's treatment of the Jews is not favourtism. It is the creation of a people to serve the world.

God created humans. God created those things by proxy.

I don't agree. God created humans, who disobeyed God, and then created those things.


Must eat and walk dog. Be back later.

How can you walk your dog after eating it?

Man, Jews are weird.

You are weird.


Why are you ignoring God's path and living in the US instead of Israel?


I have considered living in Israel. But the wife is a Lutheran. That makes it a bit difficult.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 12:32:01 PM by Yonah ben Amittai »

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1375 on: November 02, 2014, 12:37:44 PM »
Of course he is. I expect he did know. But that does not change the fact that God had to choose a perfect nation to light the way for others. The damage caused from that cannot be led to God's door. "I shall bless those who bless thee, and curse those who curse thee."
They are doing a very poor job at it.  Also, why land that was already occupied?  Why not empty land?  Would have solved A lot of problems.

I'd say we have done a pretty good job of bringing monotheism to the world, since Christianity and Islam are both here because of us. As far as land that was already occupied (by the Canaanites), that was so God could make an example out of people. I recommend reading the Torah before asking further questions on this. As far as modern Israel is concerned, the fact that modern Arabo-Canaanites who call themselves "Palestinians" happen to be there is not our fault. They must be removed, peacefully if possible, forcibly if necessary.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1376 on: November 02, 2014, 12:49:57 PM »
Of course he is. I expect he did know. But that does not change the fact that God had to choose a perfect nation to light the way for others. The damage caused from that cannot be led to God's door. "I shall bless those who bless thee, and curse those who curse thee."
They are doing a very poor job at it.  Also, why land that was already occupied?  Why not empty land?  Would have solved A lot of problems.

I'd say we have done a pretty good job of bringing monotheism to the world, since Christianity and Islam are both here because of us.
Except God wanted JEWS to do it, not children of the jewish faith.  And really, Christianity is a sin to Jews isn't it?  Worshiping a false idol (Jesus)?  Also, the Roman Empire is basically the sole reason it's spread as far as it did.  So you really should be thanking the Romans for wiping out all the pesky druids, greeks, Vikings, and whatever other pagan religions were destroyed by them in their holy crusade.

And I really hope you aren't suggesting that Jews created Islam because that would make your hatred of it quite ironic since the two faiths are so very similar, aside from an updated rule book.

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As far as land that was already occupied (by the Canaanites), that was so God could make an example out of people.
This literally makes no sense.  From the perspective of everyone else (the people who would learn the lesson) it was no different than any other conquering army.  What lesson did the dead people learn?  And what lesson did the living people who heard about it learn?  That an army can take over land?  If God wanted to make an example out of people, he'd have wiped them out with his divine power. 

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I recommend reading the Torah before asking further questions on this. As far as modern Israel is concerned, the fact that modern Arabo-Canaanites who call themselves "Palestinians" happen to be there is not our fault. They must be removed, peacefully if possible, forcibly if necessary.
Yes it is.  The Jews failed in their Godly task to wipe out all Canaanites.  Had they succeeded, there would be no such thing as a "Arabo-Canaanite".
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Thork

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1377 on: November 02, 2014, 01:27:30 PM »
Also, the Roman Empire is basically the sole reason it's spread as far as it did.  So you really should be thanking the Romans for wiping out all the pesky druids, greeks, Vikings, and whatever other pagan religions were destroyed by them in their holy crusade.
If all those people had been wiped out, Dave, I wouldn't be here. I'm not a greasy Italian.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1378 on: November 02, 2014, 01:30:54 PM »
Of course he is. I expect he did know. But that does not change the fact that God had to choose a perfect nation to light the way for others. The damage caused from that cannot be led to God's door. "I shall bless those who bless thee, and curse those who curse thee."
They are doing a very poor job at it.  Also, why land that was already occupied?  Why not empty land?  Would have solved A lot of problems.

I'd say we have done a pretty good job of bringing monotheism to the world, since Christianity and Islam are both here because of us.
Quote
Except God wanted JEWS to do it, not children of the jewish faith.  And really, Christianity is a sin to Jews isn't it?  Worshiping a false idol (Jesus)?  Also, the Roman Empire is basically the sole reason it's spread as far as it did.  So you really should be thanking the Romans for wiping out all the pesky druids, greeks, Vikings, and whatever other pagan religions were destroyed by them in their holy crusade.

And I really hope you aren't suggesting that Jews created Islam because that would make your hatred of it quite ironic since the two faiths are so very similar, aside from an updated rule book.

Well, one would think that Christianity would be considered as such, but, oddly enough, it has been accorded (by most Jewish scholars) a place at the table of monotheisms. I'm not exactly sure why, but it has.

Regarding Islam, I don't hate its theology, which is essentially not much different than ours. I despise its tendency to want to blow shit up, and its sense of wanting to make the rest of the world second class citizens. Beyond that, however, I have no objection to it.

As far as Romans go, well, you are right at least to a point. Their military force did take Christianity further than it would otherwise have gone, just as Islam was carried by the sword further than it would otherwise have got.

Quote
As far as land that was already occupied (by the Canaanites), that was so God could make an example out of people.
Quote
This literally makes no sense.  From the perspective of everyone else (the people who would learn the lesson) it was no different than any other conquering army.  What lesson did the dead people learn?  And what lesson did the living people who heard about it learn?  That an army can take over land?  If God wanted to make an example out of people, he'd have wiped them out with his divine power.

The neighbours of the Canaanites got to learn the power of the Jewish God over their own gods. And I think were advised that their own filthy practices must stop. Whether they heeded the advice, I don't know. 

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I recommend reading the Torah before asking further questions on this. As far as modern Israel is concerned, the fact that modern Arabo-Canaanites who call themselves "Palestinians" happen to be there is not our fault. They must be removed, peacefully if possible, forcibly if necessary.
Quote
Yes it is.  The Jews failed in their Godly task to wipe out all Canaanites.  Had they succeeded, there would be no such thing as a "Arabo-Canaanite".

Yes there would. They would just be pure Arabs in that case.


« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 01:37:15 PM by Yonah ben Amittai »

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1379 on: November 02, 2014, 01:36:29 PM »
Also, the Roman Empire is basically the sole reason it's spread as far as it did.  So you really should be thanking the Romans for wiping out all the pesky druids, greeks, Vikings, and whatever other pagan religions were destroyed by them in their holy crusade.
If all those people had been wiped out, Dave, I wouldn't be here. I'm not a greasy Italian.

Neither were the Romans. The rest of Italy was, though, especially the further south you got.  ;D ;D .. I mean, seriously, what good has Italy been for the world since Rome fell? Ok, they had nice art during the Renaissance, but beyond that... ::) ::) ::)