[StinkyOne]

Aircraft are trimmed to fly straight and level. They are neither designed nor trimmed to fly circles around a globe.

But the earth that they fly over is flat and level, even on our globe earth. Earth is too huge for the curve to be noticeable at such low altitudes. Would you also expect that when planes arrive at Australia they are upside down? (Not a dig, there is YouTube FE proof vid where this was cited)

If you fly half way round the world, you have to turn your aircraft 180 degrees so the sky is still above you on a round earth. Somehow this just happens, no steering or alterations required. You flew straight and level, and now your aircraft is flipped 180 degrees from where it started.

What you think is straight and level is actually a very large curve. At a local level, the curve is irrelevant and local features are more important. It seems like you probably don't quite understand the globe and how level is determined.

The purpose of the trimmer is to reduce load on the control surfaces, so when a pilot settles into a steady climb after take off for example, he would trim the aircraft so that there is no need to constantly pull back on the controls. The same during descent or with any change of altitude. In normal straight and level flight, as BT said, the aircraft would indeed be trimmed for flight with no pressure on the controls being required. The effect would be the same on an RE or FE because the same lift/drag/thrust/weight ratio would be maintained to balance against the downward pull of gravity or the upward movement of UA. Curvature of the earth is irrelevant, because for the aircraft to gain height would require an increase in vertical acceleration and therefore thrust, as would a downward movement require a decrease in both models.

Roger

Oh, I understand the purpose of trimming an aircraft and l/d/t/w ratio. I've flown a couple planes in my time, as well. (a 172 and a T-6 Texan) My point was about the concept of straight and level on a curved Earth. The mechanisms used to determine straight and level follow the Earth's curve. As we know, gravity created by the Earth is spherical. In 1g flight, you're flying the curve of the Earth. If BT was truly as educated as he likes to claim, he would know exactly why "straight and level" is a bit misleading in this instance.

[Roger G]

'Oh, I understand the purpose of trimming an aircraft and l/d/t/w ratio. I've flown a couple planes in my time, as well. (a 172 and a T-6 Texan) My point was about the concept of straight and level on a curved Earth. The mechanisms used to determine straight and level follow the Earth's curve. As we know, gravity created by the Earth is spherical. In 1g flight, you're flying the curve of the Earth. If BT was truly as educated as he likes to claim, he would know exactly why "straight and level" is a bit misleading in this instance.'

My post was really just to clear up the misleading description of a trimmer for those that aren't familiar with it's use. Anyone that's flown a plane would understand the use of course and as you inferred, straight and level is maintaining the same altitude whether flat or round earth.

Apart from some P2 in light aircraft my piloting is strictly limited to gliders and motor gliders. I could have converted in just 3 hours plus a GFT to a PPL from my senior instructor gliders rating, but just had no interest in following an engine around, just found gliding more satisfying and quieter. A bit like the difference between sailing and motor boating, give me sailing anytime, particularly if I can get up the mast and see navigation points over the horizon 

Roger

[StinkyOne]

'Oh, I understand the purpose of trimming an aircraft and l/d/t/w ratio. I've flown a couple planes in my time, as well. (a 172 and a T-6 Texan) My point was about the concept of straight and level on a curved Earth. The mechanisms used to determine straight and level follow the Earth's curve. As we know, gravity created by the Earth is spherical. In 1g flight, you're flying the curve of the Earth. If BT was truly as educated as he likes to claim, he would know exactly why "straight and level" is a bit misleading in this instance.'

My post was really just to clear up the misleading description of a trimmer for those that aren't familiar with it's use. Anyone that's flown a plane would understand the use of course and as you inferred, straight and level is maintaining the same altitude whether flat or round earth.

Apart from some P2 in light aircraft my piloting is strictly limited to gliders and motor gliders. I could have converted in just 3 hours plus a GFT to a PPL from my senior instructor gliders rating, but just had no interest in following an engine around, just found gliding more satisfying and quieter. A bit like the difference between sailing and motor boating, give me sailing anytime, particularly if I can get up the mast and see navigation points over the horizon 

Roger

Never been in a glider, but I image it must be pretty amazing. Then again, flying aerobatics with 550 hp on tap ain't too bad, either. It is a bit loud though. 

[Dr David Thork]

My post was really just to clear up the misleading description of a trimmer for those that aren't familiar with it's use. Anyone that's flown a plane would understand the use of course and as you inferred, straight and level is maintaining the same altitude whether flat or round earth.

Straight and level does not say anything about maintaining curves for earth's surface.

straight
adjective
1.
extending or moving uniformly in one direction only; without a curve or bend.

level
adjective
1.
having a flat, horizontal surface.
synonyms:   flat, smooth, even, uniform, plane, flush, plumb, regular, true; More

Only Round Earthers could take a simple phrase like 'straight and level' and interpret it as 'curved and divergent'.

[Curious Squirrel]

My post was really just to clear up the misleading description of a trimmer for those that aren't familiar with it's use. Anyone that's flown a plane would understand the use of course and as you inferred, straight and level is maintaining the same altitude whether flat or round earth.

Straight and level does not say anything about maintaining curves for earth's surface.

straight
adjective
1.
extending or moving uniformly in one direction only; without a curve or bend.

level
adjective
1.
having a flat, horizontal surface.
synonyms:   flat, smooth, even, uniform, plane, flush, plumb, regular, true; More

Only Round Earthers could take a simple phrase like 'straight and level' and interpret it as 'curved and divergent'.

I mean, once again on a FE you're flying 'straight and level' and ending up turned 180° around when doing that same flight. So.....

[StinkyOne]

My post was really just to clear up the misleading description of a trimmer for those that aren't familiar with it's use. Anyone that's flown a plane would understand the use of course and as you inferred, straight and level is maintaining the same altitude whether flat or round earth.

Straight and level does not say anything about maintaining curves for earth's surface.

straight
adjective
1.
extending or moving uniformly in one direction only; without a curve or bend.

level
adjective
1.
having a flat, horizontal surface.
synonyms:   flat, smooth, even, uniform, plane, flush, plumb, regular, true; More

Only Round Earthers could take a simple phrase like 'straight and level' and interpret it as 'curved and divergent'.

Sigh, only a FEer wouldn't understand the difference between a colloquial term and a dictionary definition. You are NOT flying straight and level. You lack a lot of understanding for someone who claims to be so educated.

[Dr David Thork]

Sigh, only a FEer wouldn't understand the difference between a colloquial term and a dictionary definition. You are NOT flying straight and level. You lack a lot of understanding for someone who claims to be so educated.

I remember my first ever flying lesson. It was called "straight and level flight". I must of missed the bit when the instructor said "You are NOT flying straight and level".

Interesting that of all the lessons one has such as

Climbing
Descending
30 degree turns
45 degree turns
Slow flight
Stalling
Take Off and Landing

The only one you don't like is the one that pops your rotundity bubble. Or is climbing a 'colloquialism' when you are really losing altitude, slow flight really going extremely fast instead and takeoff an activity whereby your wheels don't actually leave the tarmac?

Straight and level is not a colloquialism. Its a technical description of the activity you perform.

[garygreen]

my flying credentials

they can't be very impressive if you think any aircraft will fly straight and level without assistance from a pilot.

[StinkyOne]

Sigh, only a FEer wouldn't understand the difference between a colloquial term and a dictionary definition. You are NOT flying straight and level. You lack a lot of understanding for someone who claims to be so educated.

I remember my first ever flying lesson. It was called "straight and level flight". I must of missed the bit when the instructor said "You are NOT flying straight and level".

Interesting that of all the lessons one has such as

Climbing
Descending
30 degree turns
45 degree turns
Slow flight
Stalling
Take Off and Landing

The only one you don't like is the one that pops your rotundity bubble. Or is climbing a 'colloquialism' when you are really losing altitude, slow flight really going extremely fast instead and takeoff an activity whereby your wheels don't actually leave the tarmac?

Straight and level is not a colloquialism. Its a technical description of the activity you perform.

1g flight is considered SnL. weight=lift. Please tell me, where is your nose pointing?

[Dr David Thork]

1g flight is considered SnL. weight=lift. Please tell me, where is your nose pointing?

I could fly a 1g descending turn. Is that straight and level?

Do you know what a barrel roll is?


How about this? A 1g barrel roll.

Johnston calculated the 1g barrel roll maneuver, conducted twice, was perfectly safe and would prove to the world that the 707 was not only as strong as an ox but as agile as a fighter.

Straight and level? Tell me Einstein, where's your nose pointing?

[StinkyOne]

Sigh, I didn't think I would have to spell this out to someone with your level of "experience". Let's start with the FAA's definition of SnL which is maintaining heading and altitude. So again, where is your nose pointing?

[Dr David Thork]

Sigh, I didn't think I would have to spell this out to someone with your level of "experience". Let's start with the FAA's definition of SnL which is maintaining heading and altitude. So again, where is your nose pointing?

Absolutely dead straight so as you maintain a constant altitude above the beautiful flat earth.

You didn't answer my question for the 1g barrel roll having asserted the definition of straight and level flight being maintaining 1g. Where does your nose point in a barrel roll please? Or will you be gracious enough to admit you were wrong?

[StinkyOne]

Sigh, I didn't think I would have to spell this out to someone with your level of "experience". Let's start with the FAA's definition of SnL which is maintaining heading and altitude. So again, where is your nose pointing?

Absolutely dead straight so as you maintain a constant altitude above the beautiful flat earth.

You didn't answer my question for the 1g barrel roll having asserted the definition of straight and level flight being maintaining 1g. Where does your nose point in a barrel roll please? Or will you be gracious enough to admit you were wrong?

Yeah, you're not a pilot.

I already addressed that - I assumed you were experienced enough to know the definition of SnL without me having to be that specific. I was wrong.

[Dr David Thork]

Sigh, I didn't think I would have to spell this out to someone with your level of "experience". Let's start with the FAA's definition of SnL which is maintaining heading and altitude. So again, where is your nose pointing?

Absolutely dead straight so as you maintain a constant altitude above the beautiful flat earth.

You didn't answer my question for the 1g barrel roll having asserted the definition of straight and level flight being maintaining 1g. Where does your nose point in a barrel roll please? Or will you be gracious enough to admit you were wrong?

Yeah, you're not a pilot.

I already addressed that - I assumed you were experienced enough to know the definition of SnL without me having to be that specific. I was wrong.

I asked you to be specific so as I knew that you knew the definition. Turns out you didn't.



Here's my credentials. Class one medical and my license to kill. Note the colour of my license book. Blue. So again, what is your experience? You keep questioning mine.

[Curious Squirrel]

Stinky, just ask him how he can fly his vaunted 'straight and level' path and still get turned around 180° like his vaunted FE requires him to do as well. He appears to be ignoring me when I ask it for some reason. There's no need to question credentials when the exact same thing has to happen on a FE as he claims to be his issue with a RE. It's simply on a different axis of rotation.

[juner]

Yeah, you're not a pilot.

Thork may be terrible, but he is a pilot. I would suggest the lot of you stop accusing otherwise (assuming the evidence he posted doesn't already convince you). Further accusations such as that will be considered low-content.

[Tom Haws]

Aircraft are trimmed to fly straight and level. They are neither designed nor trimmed to fly circles around a globe.

This is silly and trollish. And you know it. As I have said many times before, and it's even implied in my Title at the left, the earth is for many purposes close enough to flat. And you know it. You know that no amount of trimming of an airplane makes any predictable difference 10 miles out. An airplane cannot be flown at constant altitude for long at all without guidance. You may as well try to ride a bicycle with a locked (trimmed) steering wheel or drive 1 mile down a straight freeway with a locked automobile steering wheel.

[TomInAustin]

I also have a healthy dislike of glider pilots having nearly been cut in half by a climbing towplane that came from under me trailing a steel cable that I likely had a closure speed of over 300mph on. The guy just had his nose in the air and couldn't give a crap about anyone else, nor were their any notams or nearby glider areas.  All I saw from under my nose was whooosh - aircraft ... cable cable cable ... whoosh - glider. And was he on the radio to anyone? lol, no.

It sounds like your situational awareness is pretty lax.   A tow plane climbing out with a glider is moving pretty slow around a known airfield and you came screaming through without checking traffic.  I bet they have a healthy dislike of your type as well since an aircraft towing has the right of way over all other engine-driven aircraft.   If you were a pilot you would know that.

That was enough to make me think you made up your entire story but since the burden of proof is on you...  go for it, show us proof of your vast experience.


Edited:  I didn't see your previous post with documentation of a license.   I stand by the other statements.  The tow plane was in the right and you were in the wrong.

[juner]

If you were a pilot you would know that.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my previous post. You can attack his arguments, but lay off the "lol ur not even a pilot" meme. Warned.

[TomInAustin]

If you were a pilot you would know that.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my previous post. You can attack his arguments, but lay off the "lol ur not even a pilot" meme. Warned.

Noted.  I had not seen the previous post.

I would suggest however that a pilot would know that a tow plane has the right of way over powered aircraft and fits the burden of proof arguments that have been going around.  I did not see it as an attack on him, but on his claims.  And for the record I did not LOL nor did I think it was funny.