Some really good Proof
« on: September 01, 2016, 01:42:21 AM »
this video i proof for more people that think the earth is Round,

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Some really good Proof
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2016, 05:13:13 AM »
this video i proof for more people that think the earth is Round,
  • The earth is huge, more later.
  • This does not happen on the the uncompressed full size original. So this is just a "jpeg" artefact.
  • There are thousands of photos of earth from space, many each day from geostationary weather satellited.
  • I have no idea what this one says!
  • I don't know about all, but many of these "stamped" clouds are similar, but not identical.
  • "Sex" in the clouds? Well clouds can have any pattern, we've all seen every sort of picture imaginable.
  • Galileo time lapse, I'd have to look closer, but clouds certainly move on weather satellite photos.
  • The "pregnant woman" is simply wrong. It tries to show the route as a straight line on a Mercator Projection. The correct air route does go near Alaska,  so Anchorage was the diversion.
  • Coriolis only affects snipers by a few inches in a mile, but it affects long range artillery by hundreds or more metres.
  • Planes fly in the atmosphere and the atmosphere moves with the earth.

He simply does not understand anything about the Globe.
But I don't accept the Globe Earth because of NASA or any other satellite photos, they are a nice confirmation, no more.

The Globe fits with what I see and the other well documented information around (eg,  sunrise times and directions,  maps of country shapes,  etc).

All of this fits with the Globe,  so much is not explained in any believable way by the Flat Earth or its map.

Got to go and get things done. 

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Some really good Proof
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2016, 05:42:10 AM »
0. What does The Devil and/or Jesus have to do with anything?  Appeal to religion is an immediate rejection by many people, for multiple reasons: A) non-believers will not care what your god has to say, or B) plenty of believers do not think God claims the world to be flat.

1. Bolivian salt flat: wrong, you cannot see "hundreds of miles" across it.  It FEELS that way because of the reflection of sky, but it is not true.  In the photo below, you can see plenty of horizon with nothing behind it.  Look at the geography of the region, however, and you will find land behind that flat.  Why can't we see it?  Curvature, that's why.

 He caps off his point by claiming that we would be able to see huge distances across the oceans too, if not for the waves.  Really, waves?  Ocean waves are a foot or two few high when there isn't a storm.  The Hawaiian Islands are home to thirteen mountain peaks higher than 1600 feet, and the tallest, visited by thousands of camera-toting tourists every year, is over 13,000 feet high.  Plenty tall enough to see over those two feet waves and see for hundreds of miles.  Heck, there are even telescopes there (for astronomy) which should be able to see the continental US, if the earth were flat.  But they can't, because the earth is not flat.

2. Photoshop manipulation of NASA photos: this has been covered to death, it has never been true, and the only people who find this line of argument compelling are people who refuse to acknowledge that photos off the internet are COMPRESSED and contain all manner of digital artifacts not present in the original.  Plus, do you really think a guy at NASA in charge of faking moon photos would not know how to remove these supposedly damning artifacts, if they are this easy to find?

3. A "Composite" image is not the same thing as a "Photoshopped" image.  And, that isn't the only single-frame (as in "not composite") image of earth from space, but there are only a few.  The reason is that the earth is a large object and most satellite imaging is intended to capture small parts of it.  This argument is equivalent to a microbiologist saying "There are no such things as mice because I've never seen a microscope photo of an entire mouse."  Microscopes are not intended to image entire organisms, and most satellites are not intended to image entire planets.

4. You don't get to claim to have "15 proofs" if you're going to repeat the tired "It IS Photoshop" claim for three of them in a row...  And besides, the three photos shown were taken by three different satellites using different imagers (hence the color differences) and from different distances (hence the apparent change in the size of North America)

5. Possible compositing error, which proves nothing because NASA acknowledges up front that most full-disc images of earth are composites.  Photoshop claim #4

6. You have to be pretty obsessed with sex, to believe that random cloud formation is truly an intentional upside-down and sideways insertion of the word "sex" in a faked-by-NASA photo.  This guy probably believes that Satan talks when you run an LP backwards too.  Photoshop claim #5

7.  This one has a lot to unpack.  The Galileo 25 hours with no cloud movement: the clip was not 25 hours, it was more like ten.  Here is a copy of it where they zoom in on some clouds and they DO move, just slow and subtle.  The ending, where he laments that "if only they would point a satellite at something we know is happening on the ground": that is literally what weather satellites do, 24x7, as they have done since the 1960s.  As for using Hubble for this purpose, he is asking a tool built for one kind of imaging to attempt a completely different kind, much like my microscope analogy, and it cannot do it. 

8.  First, if you're going to claim a story as evidence, you might want to remember the details: you can clearly read on the screen the flight was from TAIWAN, not THE PHILIPPINES.  Second, airplanes do not fly across the oceans following lines that are straight on the map projection he used to illustrate it.  Third, the airport he used in his illustration, DPS, is neither Taiwan nor Manila, but Bali.  Finally, the flight from the TAIWAN to LAX diverted to Alaska because that's the nearest land along the great circle route.  Not because the earth is flat and the plane was passing over Alaska already.   

9.  The Antarctic Treaty does not forbid you going there.  You have to get a permit, and they won't issue one unless you can demonstrate that you have the experience and equipment to safely make it there and back.  The guy he mentions, Jarle Andhøy, is an idiot who has lost crew members down there during unpermitted trips, and caused a lot of trouble and expense to others trying to locate and rescue his sorry ass.  So yeah, JARLE isn't allowed to go, he's reckless and gets people killed.  Anybody else who wants to follow the rules, there are tourism companies that will take you to Antartica if you have the money.

10.  Pure speculation about the purpose of nuclear weapons testing, when no motive beyond "weapons testing" is needed.  You don't get to call speculation a "proof"

11.  Continued speculation about the same issue in number 10.  I'm not allowing you to count it once, so you certainly can't count it twice!  With absolutely no claim or evidence that he has any understanding how nuclear devices work or why they should be expected to act just like conventional explosives, he decides that "it looks to me" like the blast was contained by "the dome", even though it all clearly happens well below whatever height he thinks the sun and moon would be.  His claim that the operations were named Fishbowl / Dominic to mean "fishbowl (dome) of the Lord" is ludicrous: military code names are given in a way that is intentionally NOT revealing.  The Manhattan Project was in Los Alamos, to name the most well known example.

12.  First, how does he know what snipers are trained to do?  Second, here is a demonstration showing that bullets ARE in fact subject to Coriolis Effect in flight.  Third, a little research reveals that not only do snipers take this into account, but so do hunters, and not by doing complex math but instead through adjustments to their scope based on distance and direction to target.

13.  Comparing airplanes to bullets, not convincing.  The effect is inches over hundreds of yards, an airplane going for a landing isn't going to notice a Coriolis shift of a couple inches left or right.  And his crack about how impossible it is to land on a moving runway: has he never seen Top Gun?  Naval aviators hit the moving runway on an aircraft carrier routinely, and it bobs up and down, pitches and rolls and yaws, all while also moving.

14.  Flights from New York going east to London do NOT take the same amount of time as the return flight, he's just making shit up now.

15.  "I don't understand weather" is not a proof.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 05:48:25 AM by Rounder »
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Offline cel

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Re: Some really good Proof
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2016, 07:03:25 AM »
GLOBE AND FLAT EARTHERS ALIKE, DON'T GO AROUND A CIRCLE TRYING TO CATCH EACH OTHER'S BEHIND (OR A TAIL??? HEHE). WHAT I'M TRYING TO TELL YOU FOLKS IS THAT YOU TEND TO BE UNREASONABLY BIASED, TOO NARROW-MINDED. THE BEST STAND OR POLICY IS TO SEEK AND ADHERE TO THE TRUTH, IF IT LEADS YOU TO KNOW THAT THE EARTH IS FLAT OR ROUND, IT'S OK.

LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, THERE ARE ASPECTS OR TOPICS IN THE DEBATE THAT BOTH ROUND AND FLAT EARTHERS HAVE PROVEN THEIR RESPECTIVE CLAIMS, MEANING, SOME EMPIRICAL DATA OR PROOFS CAN ALL BE TRUE FOR GLOBE OR FLAT EARTH, MOST ESP. THAT THE EARTH IS SO HUGE COMPARED TO HUMAN SIZE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? SO IN THAT CASE, BETTER DON'T PUSH TOO MUCH YOUR ARGUMENT OR PROPOSITION IF YOU KNOW THAT IT IS ALSO TRUE WITH THE OTHER GUY YOU'RE ARGUABLY ENGAGED WITH. FIND ANOTHER PROOF THAT CAN REALLY SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM.

WELL, FOR NOW, THERE ARE REALLY LOTS OF PROOFS FROM FLAT EARTHERS THAT ARE ASTONISHING. THESE ARE THE VERY REASON WHY THEY'RE NOW THOUSANDS OR MILLIONS OF FOLLOWING IN THE SOCIAL MEDIA. OF COURSE, THESE PEOPLE, JUST LIKE THE GLOBE EARTHERS HERE, HAVE A MASTERY OF SCIENCE IN THEIR ACADEMIC YEARS. IN FACT, THEY EXCELLED IN LEARNING SCIENCE AND OTHER TECHNICAL MATTERS JUST LIKE THE GLOBE EARTHERS THEMSELVES. WHAT I'M TRYING TO STRESS IS THAT ALL INVOLVED HERE SHOULD NOT BE INSULTING AND DISRESPECTING EACH OTHERS' CLAIMS. WE'LL DEBATE INTELLIGENTLY, REASONS VS. REASONS, SCIENCE VS. SCIENCE, EMPIRICAL DATA VS. EMPIRICAL DATA, LOGIC VS. LOGIC... ETC. LET'S AVOID DECEPTION. THE ABSOLUTE OBJECTIVE IS TO GET TO THE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. IF THE EARTH IS TO BE PROVEN FLAT, SO WHAT? SO BE IT. IF OTHERWISE, WELL, SO BE IT ALSO. DON'T WORRY, AS IT IS ALWAYS WORTH KNOWING THAT THE TRUTH SHALL SET US FREE... BE A GOOD TRUTH SEEKER... GOOD LUCK, FRIENDS... MAY YOU WATCH THESE VIDEOS WITH OPEN MIND.... CERTAIN POINTS HAVE BEEN WELL TAKEN AND PRESENTED.... WHAT DO YOU THINK? ENJOY WATCHING...





SAY SOMETHING REASONABLE, LOGICAL, SCIENTIFIC SUPPORTED WITH GENUINE EMPIRICAL DATA. IF YOU CAN'T, BETTER KEEP SILENT AND REFLECT UNTIL YOU'VE DECIPHERED SOMETHING WORTH KNOWING AND SHARING WITH US... :)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 07:07:51 AM by cel »
You may wish to decipher how many squares are there in the 4x4 matrix of my profile image. If you do, tell me! That way I can tell if you really have an imaginative/creative mind that knows how to think out of the box. If you got it right, you've got great potential of becoming a genuine Truth Seeker! Welcome then to the Truth Seeker's group!

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Some really good Proof
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2016, 09:54:49 AM »


Stop expecting us to study videos over and over. If they have any convincing evidence, then you take the effort and at least summarise the salient points.
If it relies on numerical values, the you take the effort and post them. It takes quite an effort to dig out those values.

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Some really good Proof
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2016, 07:59:42 PM »
Video 1

He thinks that Airy's Failure is proof that Earth doesn't move?  Wrong: It is proof that there is no "aether drag" for earth to move through.

He thinks the fact that the camera is spinning to follow the sun is proof the earth does not rotate?  That is beyond childish!  And even a child can demonstrate that if you are standing on a spinning object, you have to rotate yourself to track a stationary object.  Most of us did this 'experiment' on the merry-go-round in the playground, didn't you?

He then switches to his own juvenile animation, which he introduces with "I know it's not to scale, don't worry, scale is not important".  I am always suspicious of such claims, and as expected it turns out to be untrue (as usual), but more on that later.  Are we supposed to just let it slide that he can't keep track of how many hours elapse between various spots in his animation?  He implies that it is six hours between 6am and 6pm, then later he states outright that it is three hours between 6pm and midnight.  I mean, if you are trying to tell me how the world works, isn't 'how a clock works' a rather basic premise you should get right?  Then he gets the observer's perspective of the apparent sun movement laughably wrong (and I had to watch this part twice to make sure he really did say the stupid thing he said).  First, he correctly states that from 6am to noon, the observer goes from 'sun to his left' to 'sun straight ahead' an apparent move to the right.  Then he correctly states that from noon to 6pm, the observer goes from 'sun straight ahead' to 'sun on the right' another apparent move to the right.  All good, until he says that from 6pm to midnight the observer goes from 'sun on the right' back to 'sun straight ahed' an apparent move to the LEFT.  This is wrong: the observer goes from 'sun to the right' to 'sun BEHIND me' or still moving to the right.  He confirms this stupid conclusion several more times in the video when he refers to the sun 'zig zagging' in the sky, so I know he really did make that mistake. 

Honestly, I don't even know how he makes such a basic error, or why you didn't catch it.

I found a suitable video for you, to demonstrate how it really works.  Pay attention to the movement of the shadow at the globe's south pole, you will see that it does not zig zag back and forth, but rotates around the pivot point in the same direction all the time.



He completes the stupidity by following the in front / behind error with this one: he points out that the sun would appear to have less angular movement per hour near noon than it would near 6am or 6pm.  This is actually a significant problem with YOUR model, not OURS, which is "solved" in your model with fictional 'bendy light' effects to force the sun appear to move the way we observe it moving.  In his "scale doesn't matter" drawing, yes it's true, because the side-to-side offset from the sub-solar point as the observer rotates becomes a significant variable in the geometry.  This is why scale DOES matter!  In the real world, where the side-to-side offset is too small to matter when compared to the millions of miles of solar distance, this variation in angular movement simply doesn't happen.


Video 2

First, if you are going to use AutoCAD to try and prove something, if you are going to brag about how accurate it is, you cannot then round off the angles you input!  "The sun elevation angle at Budapest is 16.89 degrees, let's just use 16 degrees". NO!!  If the angle is 16.89 degrees, let's use 16.89, jackass!  If you aren't going to bother with accuracy, don't waste my time.
Second, if you truly want to use this tool to its most accurate use, you should choose a pair of cities that are not offset from each other by an hour.  You state "it's not gonna matter" but why should I believe you?
Third, he makes another claim that "one degree of difference will not make a change".  BULLSHIT.  This means either A) he doesn't understand basic trigonometry or B) he is covering the fact that he is introducing intentional errors to force the outcome and make it match his narrative.  My money is on option B.

I had to laugh when he did (quite by accident) get something right, when he mockingly says "Please, don't tell me that sunlight bends".  No worries, mate: round earthers won't say that!  Problem is, the FLAT earth side is the one counting on bendy light to force observations to fit their nearby sun, not the round earth side.

Moving on, he continues with the lies: "I am really doing my best to make this heliocentric model work".  No, you REALLY are not.  If you were, you would use the most detailed angles you could, instead of rounding off at every opportunity.  "The web site says that in January the sun rises in the South" That is NOT what the website says, jackass!  118° SE is far from "in the South", that would be a bearing of 180° S.  "Now I don't know how that is possible on the 'ball earth' but that's OK..."  Yeah, it's not possible, but it IS okay because you made it up.  It's called a Straw Man argument, read about it and then KNOCK IT OFF!  He then draws a line to the sun with an elevation of 65° to the south.  Why?  Where did that pair of numbers come from?  The web site never puts Cape Town's sun at that direction and elevation, at any time of year; once again you're making shit up and pretending to disprove a point that nobody holds (see again Straw Man).  It's revealing that a few sentences later he says "we could spend the whole day making up angles just to reach 93 million miles..."  Yeah, you do that, the rest of us don't need to 'make up angles' to prove our point.  Oh, snap, you actually DO start making up random angles at that point in the video?  That's it, I'm done with you.

Verdict: Video #1 narrator is an idiot, Video #2 narrator is a liar who enjoys fooling idiots.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 12:01:44 AM by Rounder »
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Offline cel

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Re: Some really good Proof
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2016, 10:33:10 AM »
From the looks and feel of what had transpired between the idiot of Video#1 and the liar fooling the idiot of Video#2 is actually some crazy fool opposer having an empty shell fooling the idiot and the liar.. hope this guy will upload his own Video, and we call it Video # 3... How's that? There's nothing to learn from what had transpired and analysis of the fault finder crazy fool.. he should have proven his claim to be the one who is in authority of the facts, but that did not happen.... poor guy... hehe
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 04:43:29 PM by cel »
You may wish to decipher how many squares are there in the 4x4 matrix of my profile image. If you do, tell me! That way I can tell if you really have an imaginative/creative mind that knows how to think out of the box. If you got it right, you've got great potential of becoming a genuine Truth Seeker! Welcome then to the Truth Seeker's group!

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Some really good Proof
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2016, 03:44:56 PM »
From the looks and feel of what had transpired between the idiot of Video#1 and the liar fooling the idiot of Video#2 is actually some crazy fool opposer having an empty shell fooling the idiot and the liar.. hope this guy will upload his own Video, and we call it Video # 3... How's that? There's nothing to learn from what had transpired and analysis of the fault finder crazy fool.. he should have proven his claim to be the one who is in authority of the facts, but that did not happen.... poor guys... hehe

Anybody understand this?  I need a translation.  Am I meant to be the "crazy fool opposer"?  Or is the Project Time guy the "crazy fool opposer" instead?
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geckothegeek

Re: Some really good Proof
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2016, 04:27:42 PM »
(1) I had to laugh at the picture . In the first place the horizon is clearly seen. And since the picture seems to be taken with the camera st eye level, it is only about 3 miles to the horizon. Certainly not "hundreds of miles." And you certainly don't see "a blur that fades away in the distance.

In that picture you can only see about 3 miles to the horizon in any direction. You are standing in the middle of a circle about 6 miles in diameter. Again, not "hundreds of mlles ." The US Navy  and other countries Navy's have manuals for lookouts for computing the distance to the horizon.

Just for drill. If you have a globe. Try plotting a 6 miles diameter circle (to scale) on that globe and see how small that circle is compared to the circumference of the globe.

(6) Just the other day I saw a cloud that looked just like a fluffy dog with a fluffy head and a fluffy tail. Sort of like a Poodle. Was that guy running the NASA Hologram Projector (The "NHP")  just fooling around and having some fun ? Or maybe it was a gal on that shift. Maybe that was a hologram of her pet ?

 The flat earth idea about seeing far at sea is also laughable. I wonder if any flat earther has ever been to sea ?

I would suppose if all you knew was "what I can see out my window" you might think the earth was flat. But there are so many people in the real world who work with things in the real world and who know that the earth is a globe that they wonder what is really the problem for these so-called "flat earth believers."

Why do they persist in not wanting to do some studying to learn how things really are and how things really work ?

I could understand why a person might thinķ the earth was flat.....IF
(1) They had never had any studies of elementary geography.
(2) They had never observed how far they could see to the horizon.
(3) They had never worked in any field of work that had to take into account the curvature of the earth.
(4) No doubt there are other reasons, but these are just a few that come to mind.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 11:00:53 PM by geckothegeek »