Cedar lake
« on: December 31, 2015, 03:17:42 AM »
Tomorrow i am going to cedar lake Indiana, im hoping to be able to see the shoreline on the other side, the lake is 2.14 miles long and supposedly there should be a 2.67 foot drop or something, i live only a couple miles away from it and am hoping to eventually perform some more experiments, if there is any horizon line of some sort that i am unable to look over i will hope to eventually get some binoculars to see further, wish me luck will report back in tomorrow!  :) 


i will be standing at the edge of the water here https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3842952,-87.4302544,101m/data=!3m1!1e3
and will be looking across to here to see the shoreline https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3539331,-87.4354458,102m/data=!3m1!1e3

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2015, 07:21:54 AM »
Tomorrow i am going to cedar lake Indiana, im hoping to be able to see the shoreline on the other side, the lake is 2.14 miles long and supposedly there should be a 2.67 foot drop or something, i live only a couple miles away from it and am hoping to eventually perform some more experiments, if there is any horizon line of some sort that i am unable to look over i will hope to eventually get some binoculars to see further, wish me luck will report back in tomorrow!  :) 


i will be standing at the edge of the water here https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3842952,-87.4302544,101m/data=!3m1!1e3
and will be looking across to here to see the shoreline https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3539331,-87.4354458,102m/data=!3m1!1e3

Unless you can understand refraction and the effect of temperature gradients over water you are just going to get false results.    A temperature gradient of just 0.1 degree C per meter in air is sufficient to bend light to sufficiently match the earth's curvature.    Having reference points along the sight line is important if you wish to understand the observations,  also sight lines close to the water level will lead you to erroneous results.




Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2015, 09:34:10 AM »
 A temperature gradient of just 0.1 degree C per meter in air is sufficient to bend light to sufficiently match the earth's curvature.

It doesn't work like that.

Refraction only comes into play in very special cases (Milwaukee seen from Grand Haven, or the Toronto skyline seen from St. Catharines). For the strait of Gibraltar, English Channel, refraction will not help the RE at all.

If the other shoreline can be seen clearly with a binocular it is all over.

Here is the best terrestrial refraction formula, online calculation, for those who want to take even this factor into account:

http://ireland.iol.ie/~geniet/eng/refract.htm (calculating the effects of refraction)

Offline jonny

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Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2015, 09:47:14 AM »
Been reading the forum for a while but never posted...

Would be interesting to see what the results are. Maybe take a digital camera with a zoom lens if you have one? Try taking pictures of the other side from 1', 2', 3', 4' off the ground by the shoreline to see what they show of the other side.

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2015, 12:04:32 PM »
A temperature gradient of just 0.1 degree C per meter in air is sufficient to bend light to sufficiently match the earth's curvature.

It doesn't work like that.

Refraction only comes into play in very special cases (Milwaukee seen from Grand Haven, or the Toronto skyline seen from St. Catharines). For the strait of Gibraltar, English Channel, refraction will not help the RE at all.

If the other shoreline can be seen clearly with a binocular it is all over.

Here is the best terrestrial refraction formula, online calculation, for those who want to take even this factor into account:

http://ireland.iol.ie/~geniet/eng/refract.htm (calculating the effects of refraction)

Sorry to disagree,  but refraction is always a factor when establishing sight lines for survey purposes,   it's geodetic surveying 101,  I will however make a slight correction,  the actual temperature gradient to match the refraction to the earth's curvature is 0.11 degrees,  not 0.1 degrees  here is a reference on looming for you to study.  http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~aty/mirages/mirsims/loom/loom.html#looming   

Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2015, 12:28:15 PM »
here is a reference on looming for you to study

Is this supposed to be a joke?

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1591587#msg1591587

I was the first to bring the looming subject into FE discussions a long time ago (the modified lapse rate).

Moreover, I even applied the ducting theory (a much more pronounced form of looming) to the Michigan lake case.

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2015, 12:45:04 PM »
here is a reference on looming for you to study

Is this supposed to be a joke?

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1591587#msg1591587

I was the first to bring the looming subject into FE discussions a long time ago (the modified lapse rate).

Moreover, I even applied the ducting theory (a much more pronounced form of looming) to the Michigan lake case.

Ok,  I bow to your superior knowledge,  what vertical atmospheric temperature gradient do YOU think is required to match the curvature of the earth?

Please note I am not talking about ducting.


Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2015, 09:26:18 PM »
ok so i got to cedar lake today and i was unfortunately low on gas and unable to follow out with the whole plan, the lake looked pretty nice though, next time i go i will bring binoculars and someone along with me with a 3ft board marked with 1/2ft increments and he will stand on the south side and i on the north and i will look through and supposedly i should only see about 1/2ft of the board if its at the water level, really sorry i wasnt able to produce any results next time i will be better prepared and planned

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2016, 04:23:22 AM »
ok so i got to cedar lake today and i was unfortunately low on gas and unable to follow out with the whole plan, the lake looked pretty nice though, next time i go i will bring binoculars and someone along with me with a 3ft board marked with 1/2ft increments and he will stand on the south side and i on the north and i will look through and supposedly i should only see about 1/2ft of the board if its at the water level, really sorry i wasnt able to produce any results next time i will be better prepared and planned

Well good luck with the experiment,  if you can arrange it,   have  some reference point part way along the sight line,  preferably  high enough off the water to avoid refractive temperature gradients that you will get close to the water.

Here is how you calculate the curvature and standard refractive correction.




Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2016, 07:27:09 AM »
The video is a junior high school presentation, making the whole subject unnecessarily complicated.

Here is how to correctly calculate the curvature, visual obstacle:

http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=3197.msg77197#msg77197


There are several formulas in use for terrestrial refraction (the one in the video is completely useless, as it does not take into account the proper variables), here is the best one, online calculation:


http://ireland.iol.ie/~geniet/eng/refract.htm (calculating the effects of refraction)


As I said, if the other shoreline can be seen with a binocular, it is all over, no amount of refraction can save the situation for the RE.

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2016, 08:12:17 AM »
As I said, if the other shoreline can be seen with a binocular, it is all over, no amount of refraction can save the situation for the RE.

LOL,   that's  funny.   ( and brain damaged beyond belief)

As I've pointed out already, and I know you understand,   a 0.1 degree per meter vertical temperature gradient will allow you to see as far as the Rayleigh scattering limit will allow,  or pollution haze permits.

« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 08:15:01 AM by Rayzor »

Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2016, 10:15:04 AM »
You do not have the necessary experience to take part in these kinds of discussions.

There is a very simple thing you do not understand: to resort to any kind of refraction formula is not an obligatory thing; refraction ONLY starts to have an effect given certain special conditions.

Then and only then we allow refraction calculations to come into play.

From the very start, you made refraction a precondition, and it doesn't work like that.

« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 10:25:21 AM by sandokhan »

Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2016, 01:12:51 PM »
Here are photographs where do not need to take into account any kind of refraction: the other shoreline is clearly seen.




http://www.flickr.com/photos/carlosromero/130948289#

No curvature whatsoever, over a distance of 13 km (strait of Gibraltar)




English Channel, no curvature whatsoever all the way to the Dover cliffs




Toronto seen from Grimsby: no curvature across lake Ontario


Now, here are photographs where obviously refraction must be taken into account:

http://finland.fi/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2946-mirage17-jpg.jpg

http://finland.fi/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2946-mirage14-jpg.jpg

http://finland.fi/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mirage18_380px1.jpg


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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2016, 01:30:43 PM »
You do not have the necessary experience to take part in these kinds of discussions.

There is a very simple thing you do not understand: to resort to any kind of refraction formula is not an obligatory thing; refraction ONLY starts to have an effect given certain special conditions.

Then and only then we allow refraction calculations to come into play.

From the very start, you made refraction a precondition, and it doesn't work like that.

You painted yourself into a corner,  and now you want me to give you a way out?   

Let me try once more,   the curvature of the earth combined with the standard adiabatic lapse rate,  gives rive to a refractive correction of about 1/7 the curvature,  now I understand why you might wish to dispute the point,  since to admit it,  means admitting the earth is curved.   Furthermore,  the refraction caused by  a 0.1 degree vertical temperature gradient causes refraction that matches the earth's curvature.  This, as I have already explained is all it takes to produce those sort of pictures. 

So we have a conundrum.   You must make some assumption about the shape of the earth to explain the result of the experiment either way.   I'm surprised that I had to explain this to you.

The conundrum can be easily solved by using well known surveying principles of establishing sight lines,  Wallace did this when he disproved the Bedford Level experiments of Rowbotham,  the flat earth arguments have not advanced any since those days.   

As for what my experience is,  in this subject,  .. let's just say ...  a bit more than a passing professional interest. 

As for your experience,  since you raise the subject,  have you ever done a geodetic survey? 
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 01:33:25 PM by Rayzor »

Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2016, 02:14:55 PM »
So we have a conundrum.

No, you have to explain the fact that the Tunguska explosion was seen from London, over a distance of over 5,200 kilometers.


JULY 1, 1908 LETTER SENT TO THE LONDON TIMES

http://www.nuforc.org/GNTungus.html

“TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.”

“Sir,--I should be interested in hearing whether others of your readers observed the strange light in the sky which was seen here last night by my sister and myself. I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m.  It was in the northeast and of a bright flame-colour like the light of sunrise or sunset.  The sky, for some distance above the light, which appeared to be on the horizon, was blue as in the daytime, with bands of light cloud of a pinkish colour floating across it at intervals.  Only the brightest stars could be seen in any part of the sky, though it was an almost cloudless night.  It was possible to read large print indoors, and the hands of the clock in my room were quite distinct.  An hour later, at about 1:30 a.m., the room was quite light, as if it had been day; the light in the sky was then more dispersed and was a fainter yellow.  The whole effect was that of a night in Norway at about this time of year.  I am in the habit of watching the sky, and have noticed the amount of light indoors at different hours of the night several times in the last fortnight.  I have never at any time seen anything the least like this in England, and it would be interesting if any one would explain the cause of so unusual a sight.

Yours faithfully,
Katharine Stephen.
Godmanchester, Huntingdon, July 1.”


Let us remember that the first newspaper report about the explosion itself ONLY appeared on July 2, 1908 in the Sibir periodical.


A report from Berlin in the New York Times of July 3 stated: 'Remarkable lights were observed in the northern heavens on Tuesday and Wednesday nights, the bright diffused white and yellow illumination continuing through the night until it disappeared at dawn...'

On July 5, (1908) a New York Times story from Britain was entitled: 'Like Dawn at Midnight.' '...The northern sky at midnight became light blue, as if the dawn were breaking...people believed that a big fire was raging in the north of London...shortly after midnight, it was possible to read large print indoors...it would be interesting if anyone would explain the cause of so unusual a sight.'


The letter sent by Mrs. Katharine Stephen is absolutely genuine as it includes details NOBODY else knew at the time: not only the precise timing of the explosion itself (7:15 - 7:17 local time, 0:15 - 0:17 London time), BUT ALSO THE DURATION OF THE TRAJECTORY OF THE OBJECT, right before the explosion, a fact uncovered decades later only by the painstaking research of Dr. Felix Zigel, an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation:


The same opinion was reached by Felix Zigel, who as an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.



Manotskov decided that the 1908 object, on the other hand, had a far slower entry speed and that, nearing the earth, it reduced its speed to "0.7 kilometers per second, or 2,400 kilometers per hour" - less than half a mile per second.

375 miles = 600 km, or 15 minutes of flight time, given the speed exemplified above

I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m.


LeMaire maintains the "accident-explanation is untenable" because "the flaming object was being expertly navigated" using Lake Baikal as a reference point. Indeed, Lake Baikal is an ideal aerial navigation reference point being 400 miles long and about 35 miles wide. LeMaire's description of the course of the Tunguska object lends credence to the thought of expert navigation:

The body approached from the south, but when about 140 miles from the explosion point, while over Kezhma, it abruptly changed course to the east. Two hundred and fifty miles later, while above Preobrazhenka, it reversed its heading toward the west. It exploded above the taiga at 60º55' N, 101º57' E (LeMaire 1980).




The fight path of the cosmic object, as reconstructed from eyewitness testimony and ballistic wave evidence. Felix Zigel and other space experts agree that, prior to exploding, the object changed from an eastward to a westward direction over the Stony Tunguska region. The arc at the bottom of the map indicates the scope of the area where witnesses either saw the fiery object or heard the blast.


The information acquired by the Florensky and Zolotov expeditions about the ballistic shock effect on the trees provides a strong basis, in some scientists' view, for a reconstruction of an alteration in the object's line of flight. In the terminal phase of its descent, according to the most recent speculations, the object appears to have approached on an eastward course, then changed course westward over the region before exploding. The ballistic wave evidence, in fact, indicates that some type of flight correction was performed in the atmosphere.

UFOs/Jet aircrafts/V2 rockets were invented by the Vril society, only after 1936.


Tesla had a bold fantasy whereby he would use the principle of rarefied gas luminescence to light up the sky at night. High frequency electric energy would be transmitted, perhaps by an ionizing beam of ultraviolet radiation, into the upper atmosphere, where gases are at relatively low pressure, so that this layer would behave like a luminous tube. Sky lighting, he said, would reduce the need for street lighting, and facilitate the movement of ocean going vessels.



A photograph with an exposure time of 20 seconds taken at 10.50 p.m., July 1, 1908 by George Embrey of Gloucester.


https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/582x643q90/203/l6sl.jpg

The telluric currents/ether/subquark-magnetic monopoles strings transmitted the energy input from the Tesla ball lightning spheres which exploded over Siberia (Tunguska):  this is how the bright luminescence in the night skies of Europe and Central Asia was created.


If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.


Tunguska file:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,59690.msg1537115.html#msg1537115

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59690.msg1535846#msg1535846 (no comet, meteorite, or asteroid)


Tesla - Tunguska:

http://www.teslasociety.com/tunguska.htm
http://www.tfcbooks.com/articles/tunguska.htm

Geo-magnetic disturbances were already observed even before the explosion!!

Many years later, researchers from Tomsk came across a forgotten publication by a Professor Weber about a powerful geo-magnetic disturbance observed in a laboratory at Kiel University in Germany for three days before the intrusion of the Tunguska object, and which ended at the very hour when the gigantic bolide exploded above the Central Siberian Plateau.


Tesla experimented with the ball lightning ether for YEARS before the Tunguska event; from the Wardenclyffe tower he sent longitudinal waves for days BEFORE the event itself in order to carefully set up the experiment.

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2016, 12:22:25 AM »
Quote
No, you have to explain the fact that the Tunguska explosion was seen from London, over a distance of over 5,200 kilometers.

Let's analyse this from a flat earth perspective.

1.  Let's assume the earth is flat.  ( we know it's not but that's the point ).
2. The extinction co-oefficient limits visibility in perfectly clear air to about 300km. 
3.  At an altitude of 7km ( the supposed altitude of the Tunguska explosion )  and a distance of 5200 km.  This places the event at an angle so close to the horizon as to be invisible.

So for the Tunguska event to be visible on a flat earth the altitude would have to be much higher.    Either that, or the earth is not flat.


I'll refrain from the obvious round earth explanation.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 12:32:35 AM by Rayzor »

Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2016, 07:02:36 AM »
rayzor...you don't stand a chance with me here.

The extinction co-oefficient limits visibility in perfectly clear air to about 300km.

Eyewitness accounts from Lake Baikal and Nizshne-Karelinskoye: a clear proof that no curvature exists at the surface of the Earth.

Nizshne-Karelinskoye (465 km). Extremely bright (it was impossible to look at it) luminous body was seen rather high in the north-western sky soon after 8 a.m. It looked like a tube (cylinder) and for 10 minutes moved down to the ground. The sky was clear, but only in the side, where the body was seen, a small dark cloud was present low above the horizon. While coming to the ground, the body dispersed (flattened) and at this place a large puff of black smoke appeared. Then a flame emanated from this cloud.

500 meter altitude - 11.6 km visual obstacle
800 meter altitude - 10.4 km visual obstacle
1000 meters altitude - 9.7 km visual obstacle

At around 7:15 a.m., Tungus natives and Russian settlers in the hills northwest of Lake Baikal observed a column of bluish light, nearly as bright as the Sun, moving across the sky. About 10 minutes later, there was a flash and a loud "knocking" sound similar to artillery fire that went in short bursts spaced increasingly wider apart.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june302008/tunguska_day_6-30-08.php

That is when Tungus natives and others living in the hills northwest of Russia's Lake Baikal reported seeing a column of bluish light, that they described as being almost as bright as the Sun, moving across the sky.

A few minutes later they reported a flash and a sound that many said resembled artillery fire. The accompanying shock wave broke windows thousands of miles away from the impact zone, and knocked countless numbers of people to the ground.


Even if we take a 560 km distance to Tunguska, and a 1 km altitude (although Lake Baikal is located at some 435 meters in elevation), the visual obstacle will measure 15.5 km, no way for anybody located at Lake Baikal to have seen the explosion itself.

Let us ascend to 1,6 km in altitude at Lake Baikal; even then, the visual obstacle will measure 13.66 km.


NO ONE FROM LAKE BAIKAL OR NIZSHNE COULD HAVE SEEN THE EXPLOSION ON A ROUND EARTH.


This places the event at an angle so close to the horizon as to be invisible.

JULY 1, 1908 LETTER SENT TO THE LONDON TIMES

http://www.nuforc.org/GNTungus.html

“TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.”

“Sir,--I should be interested in hearing whether others of your readers observed the strange light in the sky which was seen here last night by my sister and myself. I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m.

Let us remember that the first newspaper report about the explosion itself ONLY appeared on July 2, 1908 in the Sibir periodical.

The letter sent by Mrs. Katharine Stephen is absolutely genuine as it includes details NOBODY else knew at the time: not only the precise timing of the explosion itself (7:15 - 7:17 local time, 0:15 - 0:17 London time), BUT ALSO THE DURATION OF THE TRAJECTORY OF THE OBJECT, right before the explosion, a fact uncovered decades later only by the painstaking research of Dr. Felix Zigel, an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation:


The same opinion was reached by Felix Zigel, who as an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.

In London on the night of June 30th the air-glow illuminates the northern quadrant of the heavens so brightly that the Times can be read at midnight. In Antwerp the glare of what looks like a huge bonfire rises twenty degrees above the northern horizon, and the sweep second hands of stopwatches are clearly visible at one a.m. In Stockholm, photographers find they can take pictures out of doors without need of cumbersome flash apparatus at any time of night from June 30th to July 3rd.


If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2016, 01:39:21 PM »
Just stick to one question at a time,   how is it possible to have seen the explosion 5800 km away at an altitude of 7km on a flat earth.  As I've already pointed out,  the flat earth model would require you to be looking through thousands of km of atmosphere when the extinction co-oefficient limits visibility to 300 km.

In any event,  what do you think caused the Tunguska  explosion?  ( and please leave my friend Nikola out ot it ).

Here is an updated trajectory for the Tunguska Meteorite.  Please note no-one is saying it changed course,  ( who else besides LeMaire?) and likewise no-one is saying it was visible from London.



Full article is here.  http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1999M%26PSA..34..137B/0000137.000.html
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 01:55:39 PM by Rayzor »

Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2016, 03:28:14 PM »
When discussing the Tunguska event with me, it is very important for you to conduct a very thorough research, and you haven't done that.

The author of your reference V.A. Bronshten has no idea of the extraordinary research performed by none other than Dr. Felix Ziegel, aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation who took into account ALL EYEWITNESS reports and physical data, and concluded:

"before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.

Moreover, V.A. Bronshten does not include the ballistic analysis performed by Florensky and Zolotov:

The information acquired by the Florensky and Zolotov expeditions about the ballistic shock effect on the trees provides a strong basis, in some scientists' view, for a reconstruction of an alteration in the object's line of flight. In the terminal phase of its descent, according to the most recent speculations, the object appears to have approached on an eastward course, then changed course westward over the region before exploding. The ballistic wave evidence, in fact, indicates that some type of flight correction was performed in the atmosphere.

Read this one carefully:

http://www.andras-nagy.com/ufo03/10.htm

It is unfortunate that V.A Bronshten did not take into account these observations.

And V.A. Bronshten committed even more pronounced mistakes/errors in his analysis:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1945-5100.1999.tb01384.x/pdf (Bronshten thinks the explosion was caused by a comet)

The event at Tunguska COULD NOT have been caused by a meteorite, comet or asteroid:

In 1983, astronomer Zdenek Sekanina published a paper criticizing the comet hypothesis. He pointed out that a body composed of cometary material, travelling through the atmosphere along such a shallow trajectory, ought to have disintegrated, whereas the Tunguska body apparently remained intact into the lower atmosphere.

The chief difficulty in the asteroid hypothesis is that a stony object should have produced a large crater where it struck the ground, but no such crater has been found.

Fesenkov (1962) claims, "According to all evidence, this meteorite moved around the Sun in a retrograde direction, which is impossible for typical meteorites...." Fesenkov notes that meteorites rarely hit the earth in the morning, because the morning side faces forward in the planet's orbit. Usually the meteorite overtakes the earth from behind, on the evening side.


Moreover, professor Giuseppe Longo (University of Bologna)  examined resin from the core of trees in the blast zone. Looking at trapped particles within the resin the team found high levels of materials that could not be found in comets.


HERE IS A CRITICAL EXAMINATION OF THE CATASTROPHIC ERRORS MADE BY V.A. BRONSHTEN IN ANALYZING THE TUNGUSKA EVENT:

http://saturniancosmology.org/files/tunguska/zlobin.note.txt

The distortion of Tunguska's trajectory was produced mainly by russian
astronomer and member of Committee of meteorites V.A.Bronshten in the
middle of XX century. He was expert in astronomy, but he was not expert
in gasdynamics. He did not understand laws of shock waves formation and
made erroneous conclusions concerning azimuth angle of Tunguska's
trajectory in atmosphere due to his imagination about symmetry of
"butterfly-like" region of trees fall. In accordance to V.A.Bronshten,
the Tunguska space body was moving across the sky from east to west.
Unfortunately, a lot of scientists did not notice this blunder and
include erroneous opinion by V.A.Bronshten into their own papers. It was
tragical moment in the history of science, when the blunder by
V.A.Bronshten distorted real imagination about the Tunguska event.


Therefore, the "updated" map of Bronshten amounts to nothing at all: my original map, obtained by Dr. Felix Ziegel stands correct.


As I've already pointed out,  the flat earth model would require you to be looking through thousands of km of atmosphere when the extinction co-oefficient limits visibility to 300 km.

Your appraisal has been shown to be totally incorrect, as was expected, by the eyewitness accounts from lake Baikal (560 km). Moreover, we are dealing with ball lightning technology.


In any event,  what do you think caused the Tunguska  explosion?

Let us carefully examine the facts which V.A. Bronshten omitted from his poorly conducted research.

Now, the incredible fact that EVEN BEFORE THE DAY OF THE BLAST ITSELF (JUNE 30, 1908), a strange glow was observed over Siberia.

http://www.nkj.ru/archive/articles/14336

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ro&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nkj.ru%2Farchive%2Farticles%2F14336&edit-text=

In brief: the witnesses stated that the anomalous skyglow commenced approximately 2 days before Tunguska!

“Scientists recorded the occurrence of some unusual phenomena starting on June 27th, 1908. Some specialists even suppose that these phenomena started as early as June 23 or June 21… Optical anomalies in the atmosphere (strange silvery clouds, brilliant twilights, and intense solar halos) were observed in western Europe, the European part of Russia, and western Siberia, beginning on June 23, 1908."

Exact reference: http://olkhov.narod.ru/tunguska.htm

THE TUNGUSKA EVENT: WHAT WE KNOW TODAY AND WHAT WE HOPE TO LEARN SOON

N. V. Vasilyev

(Kharkov Metchnikoff Institute and Commission on Meteorites of the Siberian Section of the Russian Academy of Sciences)




http://altered-states.net/barry/tesla/ (the section Lighting up the sky)

Geo-magnetic disturbances were already observed even before the explosion!!

Many years later, researchers from Tomsk came across a forgotten publication by a Professor Weber about a powerful geo-magnetic disturbance observed in a laboratory at Kiel University in Germany for three days before the intrusion of the Tunguska object, and which ended at the very hour when the gigantic bolide exploded above the Central Siberian Plateau.


Tesla experimented with the ball lightning ether for YEARS before the Tunguska event; from the Wardenclyffe tower he sent longitudinal waves for days BEFORE the event itself in order to carefully set up the experiment.


One of the best works which does prove the Tunguska explosion was caused by ball lightning:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1677590#msg1677590


Anomalies observed as early as June 27, 1908:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1680651#msg1680651


Tesla - Tunguska:

http://www.teslasociety.com/tunguska.htm
http://www.tfcbooks.com/articles/tunguska.htm


N. Tesla:

My apparatus projects particles which may be relatively large or of microscopic dimensions, enabling us to convey to a small area at a great distance trillions of times more energy than is possible with rays of any kind.  Many thousands of horsepower can thus be transmitted by a stream thinner than a hair, so that nothing can resist.  This wonderful feature will make it possible, among other things, to achieve undreamed-of results in television, for there will be almost no limit to the intensity of illumination, the size of the picture, or distance of projection.

Tesla said his transmitter could produce 100 million volts of pressure with currents up to 1000 amperes which is a power level of 100 billion watts.
 
If it was resonating at a radio frequency of 2 MHz, then the energy released during one period of its oscillation would be 100,000,000,000,000,000 (1016) Joules of energy, or roughly the amount of energy released by the explosion of 10 megatons of TNT.

Such a transmitter, would be capable of projecting the energy of a nuclear warhead by radio.


If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.

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Re: Cedar lake
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2016, 07:02:37 PM »
Superior mirage/refraction is rather common.

This is the result looking 12 miles with a difference of around 18feet or so.  Light from the lower objects is curved, and the higher unaffected objects sink below the surface curvature.