Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2021, 12:18:20 AM »
Does your research involve field trips, interviewing witnesses and so forth?  Or is it mainly google/YouTube based?

Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2021, 01:52:54 AM »
Does your research involve field trips, interviewing witnesses and so forth?  Or is it mainly google/YouTube based?

I do not conduct interviews, no.  I do, of course, study the anecdotes collected by other researchers.

I don't go on field trips with the express purpose of seeing ufos (though I frequently look up!).  In general, there is no reason to - they are too ephemeral (and are clandestine surveillance craft, besides).

Accept nothing without thorough validation first.  This is not advice limited to ufology.

My research approach is most informed by the late great stan friedman. If you stick with him and listen closely to what he says, you should do alright.

It is a subject riddled with frauds and lying profiteers (not unlike much of the "flat earth" circuit / youtube etc.).  Sadly many of the "experiencers" are also victims in my view.

Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2021, 02:07:05 AM »
@stack

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Interesting that you believe you are default more informed than someone else.

I suspected it, by default (based on my prior experience with you, in this thread and outside it. As well as my extensive research and knowledge on the subject - we are few and far between)

You proved your lack of knowledge in at least three ways. One, the regurgitation of a wiki article.  Two, the complete ignoring of everything I said in an earnest effort to educate you. And three, that you don't even know that close encounters has been "revised"/"remastered".  Your lack of depth in this subject is evident. It requires no belief.

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I didn't. I didn't have a bias.

Re-read the thread.

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I thought about what you wrote and wondered if it was true or not.

No, you assumed it wasn't true and attempted to use that as a reason to discredit any finding or statement I may make. Classic debunker.

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In pondering and looking into it, I started to find some discrepancies. And equally, you cannot objectively make any claim if your preexisting bias is that it MUST be right. As you have done.

One of us has spent years on the research, and is sharing a research conclusion bore of that work.  One of us isn't.  It's all terribly simple.

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Why do you presume that you are in the role of a "teacher" from which some one can learn? Just because you claim to be some sort of expert?

I generously offered to share my knowledge with you and educate you.  Pearls before swine, sadly.

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Not a foregone conclusion. I just question your constant barrage of "through your independent research findings things work like this..." without ever really backing anything up.

And in cases like this where you recieved the "backing up", you just ignored it and continued to believe whatever you wanted to.  Good research ethic!

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And I fully demonstrated that folks who probably have perhaps studied more than you on the subject contradict your claims. (See paper above)

You fully ignored and then tried to distract from how you were wrong.  Next time, own it - you learn more that way!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 02:18:08 AM by jack44556677 »

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Offline stack

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Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2021, 08:26:22 AM »
@stack

Quote
Interesting that you believe you are default more informed than someone else.

I suspected it, by default (based on my prior experience with you, in this thread and outside it. As well as my extensive research and knowledge on the subject - we are few and far between)

You proved your lack of knowledge in at least three ways. One, the regurgitation of a wiki article.  Two, the complete ignoring of everything I said in an earnest effort to educate you. And three, that you don't even know that close encounters has been "revised"/"remastered".  Your lack of depth in this subject is evident. It requires no belief.

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I didn't. I didn't have a bias.

Re-read the thread.

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I thought about what you wrote and wondered if it was true or not.

No, you assumed it wasn't true and attempted to use that as a reason to discredit any finding or statement I may make. Classic debunker.

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In pondering and looking into it, I started to find some discrepancies. And equally, you cannot objectively make any claim if your preexisting bias is that it MUST be right. As you have done.

One of us has spent years on the research, and is sharing a research conclusion bore of that work.  One of us isn't.  It's all terribly simple.

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Why do you presume that you are in the role of a "teacher" from which some one can learn? Just because you claim to be some sort of expert?

I generously offered to share my knowledge with you and educate you.  Pearls before swine, sadly.

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Not a foregone conclusion. I just question your constant barrage of "through your independent research findings things work like this..." without ever really backing anything up.

And in cases like this where you recieved the "backing up", you just ignored it and continued to believe whatever you wanted to.  Good research ethic!

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And I fully demonstrated that folks who probably have perhaps studied more than you on the subject contradict your claims. (See paper above)

You fully ignored and then tried to distract from how you were wrong.  Next time, own it - you learn more that way!

Yes, I’m well aware CEotTK was revised/remastered. Original, 1977, then 1980. And the paper that I cited that contradicts you was written in 1995, 3 years prior to the release of the final version in 1998. Your claimed extensive research and knowledge seems to have missed some key things.

Your generous knowledge amounts to a book cover from a wikimedia page, a TV show that got canned after 2 episodes that no one saw, and an early 90’s movie adaptation of 1978 book (Not the 90’s). Yes, very generous indeed.

I’m not sure what makes you think you have the authority or that your role here is to educate anyone. Instead of just always claiming something without evidence and relying on the notion that you are more knowledgable than others, you might want to actually back up your claims.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2021, 09:01:10 AM »
Does your research involve field trips, interviewing witnesses and so forth?  Or is it mainly google/YouTube based?

I do not ....  I do, of course, study the anecdotes collected by other researchers.

I don't ....

My research approach is most informed by ...


You were asked, by myself and another, what you actually DO for your research, but all you do is tell us what you don't do, apart from "studying anecdotes"...

Your "research approach" may well be "informed by" someone else's work, but you still haven't told what your research approach IS, apart from "studying anecdotes" ...
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2021, 07:31:38 PM »
@stack

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I’m not sure what makes you think you have the authority or that your role here is to educate anyone. Instead of just always claiming something without evidence and relying on the notion that you are more knowledgable than others, you might want to actually back up your claims.

I have, you ignored them because you are biased.  I am not the only researcher to perform an iconographic study of "aliens" over time.  Perhaps you wish to do the same (or start researching those that have?)

You inability to recognize and admit when you are wrong is harming you.  I urge you to reconsider.

We are not evaluating your claim that close encounters is the beginning of the gray iconography, because it clearly isn't - which I've already "backed up".  Try practicing what you preach!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 07:39:22 PM by jack44556677 »

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Offline stack

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Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2021, 08:54:49 PM »
@stack

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I’m not sure what makes you think you have the authority or that your role here is to educate anyone. Instead of just always claiming something without evidence and relying on the notion that you are more knowledgable than others, you might want to actually back up your claims.

I have, you ignored them because you are biased.  I am not the only researcher to perform an iconographic study of "aliens" over time.  Perhaps you wish to do the same (or start researching those that have?)

You inability to recognize and admit when you are wrong is harming you.  I urge you to reconsider.

We are not evaluating your claim that close encounters is the beginning of the gray iconography, because it clearly isn't - which I've already "backed up".  Try practicing what you preach!

Re-read the thread. I never claimed CEotTK was the "beginning" of the Gray depictions. I am only contending that your claim that Gray depictions as we know them did not appear until the 1990's. As evidenced by the Barney Hill description, the other 70's & 80's depictions, as well as the paper I cited, Gray depictions as we know them, entered popular culture long before you claim they did. That is all.

Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2021, 11:28:59 PM »
Does your research involve field trips, interviewing witnesses and so forth?  Or is it mainly google/YouTube based?

I do not conduct interviews, no.  I do, of course, study the anecdotes collected by other researchers.

I don't go on field trips with the express purpose of seeing ufos (though I frequently look up!).  In general, there is no reason to - they are too ephemeral (and are clandestine surveillance craft, besides).



So, mainly the internet then.  That's fine.  Lots of good stuff on the internet. 


Imagine, if you will, that Earth sends Mike Tyson, Kim Jong Un and Uma Thurman as emissaries to the home of the Grays (I know, its weird, but stay with me.  Its a McGuffin).  The average Gray-in-the-street is likely to think they represent 3 different species.  He/she has never visited Earth, as that kind of travel is the province (as on Earth) of a technically qualified and trained elite.  He/she obviously recognises the overall anthropoid form, but individual features of the visitors are diverse; dark/light skin, differences in overall stature, hair, sexual features and, of course, differing eye colour and shape.  Three different races.  Probably at least one of them scary (Uma Thurman would be my guess). 

The TV show Star Trek appeared in the 1960's and was in many ways groundbreaking in its depiction of the unified nations and races of Earth collaborating as part of a Confederation.  The famous prime-time-first interracial kiss, and so forth.  The stories developed, spinoffs appeared and by the mid 90's the Star Trek canon introduced us to the concept of a black character from the planet Vulcan, in the shape of Ensign Tuvok.  Familiar Vulcan brain, Vulcan ears, but now he's black.  Quite why Vulcan humanoids would have evolved in a parallel way to those on Earth I don't think was fully explained, but it did at least serve to increase the diversity in roles available to ethnic actors, and, as art follows society, illustrated the broadening acceptance of diversity in the population. 

I'm personally unconvinced by the prospect of Grays in reality but my point is, as a cultural icon in the collective consciousness, should Jack's 90's "Gray" just be seen as an ethnic variation of the same old "alien" species. 

And don't forget that none of the popular images are the product of witnesses or scientists, they are all drawn by graphic artists. 

Offline scomato

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Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2021, 12:47:15 AM »
@stack

Quote
I’m not sure what makes you think you have the authority or that your role here is to educate anyone. Instead of just always claiming something without evidence and relying on the notion that you are more knowledgable than others, you might want to actually back up your claims.

I have, you ignored them because you are biased.  I am not the only researcher to perform an iconographic study of "aliens" over time.  Perhaps you wish to do the same (or start researching those that have?)

You inability to recognize and admit when you are wrong is harming you.  I urge you to reconsider.

We are not evaluating your claim that close encounters is the beginning of the gray iconography, because it clearly isn't - which I've already "backed up".  Try practicing what you preach!

So.. if the research has been done.. share it! Give us your paper, even a high-school quality report will do.
Introduction, methods of data collection and analysis, results, discussion, conclusion - it isn't hard!

Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2021, 02:01:34 PM »
@scomato

I could, but why should I bother?

As I said, I am not the first researcher to perform an iconographic study of "aliens" over time.

It is an interesting subject, and I would not wish to deprive you of the independent research excercise that most severely need. 

Besides; my findings might bias you to ignore the data - perhaps I'm wrong!

Do your own research.  It is not optional, and it pays dividends.

If you earnestly lack the independent research ability to do so, I'd be happy to point you in the right direction.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2021, 07:35:10 PM »
@scomato

I could, but why should I bother?

Because that's the right and proper thing to do.

If you claim to have "done research", you should be prepared to show your work.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2021, 11:11:49 AM »
Because that's the right and proper thing to do.
Tumeni, if you are going to waste our time with drivel like "You should do something I want you to do because I think you should do it", you're going to find yourself unable to post very soon. I already issued you a final warning, so please consider this friendly advice a freebie.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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<Parsifal> I don't understand any of it but the symbols look nice

Interview with a true believer
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2021, 04:28:40 PM »
Hello everyone, I am really interested into learning more about the society. I'd really like to interview someone on their view of the society. I'm going to be completely transparent, it is for a paper for my writing class. My assignment focuses on Dissoi Logoi, or the act of viewing a topic from both sides. My topic is the view of the earth as either a sphere, or a disk. I feel as it would be more intereseting to interview somone from the society because there is a bias that I'd like to exterminate in the writing. I'd need to site your name and contact info (email would be fine) in my works cited.

I really hope some of you reach out in interest as I am genually curious on your perspective. Whenever I look "flat earth" up it is nothing but a slew of hate and bias and I'd like to reach straight to the source, because I know we all have our own views and perspectives. I just want to see the unfiltered view from you!

Please reach out if you'd like, a first draft is due this monday. My personal email is James@olivieri5.com dont be afraid to reach out!

Thanks!

Offline Cypher9

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Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2021, 12:40:21 PM »
I am not a "believer" of flat Earth. I do not think that one needs to be a supporter of a flat Earth model to answer your questions, though, so I'll give it a try.

1) There is no evidence of alien life yet and definitely not of alien intelligent life that has visited us. Hypothetically speaking they could be coming either from beyond the ice wall or from within the Earth. Or we can ask them when we see one! On their motivations to interact with us I would say that curiosity would be the main driver. Or conquest!!

2) You question on the firmament cannot be answered, but the same goes for outer space. If the firmament does not exist then who put outer space there? It is a philosophical question rather than a scientific one. Note that the existence of the firmament is a separate issue to the question on the shape of the Earth.

3) Regarding the number of people that have studied this, based on the answers I've seen in other posts here, I would say that proponents of a flat Earth support that it is because most people are nurtured to the idea of a spherical Earth in childhood and never challenge this as adults.

There's a lot of evidence proving aliens to be real. You just have to look for it.

Offline Cypher9

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Re: Questions for flat earth
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2021, 12:47:23 PM »
I am becoming a believer of flat earth. But 2 questions always bother me....aliens and the firmament.  Where do aliens come from then?  There's no outer space.  Are they just from over the Ice wall?  Why would they want to experiment or anything with us? If outer space does not exist who put the firmament there and how ?  Why haven't more people studied this ?  I can't seem to ever really find these answers

Aliens are inter dimensional beings and have probably been around since forever. The reason for the present hybridization program being carried out on board the ships is still a mystery. The firmament might exist, there again it might not - we don't know.