[Particle Person]

Real canonical, too, not lol-C0DA-everything-is-permitted canonical.

There's no difference.

It's not bad, and it's not good. It's merely playable.

It is bad. It baffles me that this game was ever even made. Nobody asked for this game.

[Rushy]

I'm glad I played a free beta, otherwise I may have wasted $60 on this mess.

[Particle Person]

$60 entry fee, $15 monthly fee, and micro-transactions. That is just ridiculous for yet another stale themepark MMORPG (that nobody wanted) in 2014.

[Rushy]

Good thing we have huge, expansive online games that are full of original and varied content such as Elite: Dangerous. Coming to a store near you December 16, 2014. I can't wait for the reviews.

[beardo]

(that nobody wanted)

Strange that a lot of people are still playing it then.

[Saddam Hussein]

Real canonical, too, not lol-C0DA-everything-is-permitted canonical.

There's no difference.

Yes, there is.  There is an established fictional universe that Bethesda recognizes and is represented in the games that they have made and/or will make in the future.  The fanfictions that people write on the Internet are not part of this universe.

[Particle Person]

Real canonical, too, not lol-C0DA-everything-is-permitted canonical.

There's no difference.

Yes, there is.  There is an established fictional universe that Bethesda recognizes and is represented in the games that they have made and/or will make in the future.  The fanfictions that people write on the Internet are not part of this universe.

No. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Rushy]

Saddam is the rarest and worst gamer of all, he who plays games solely for the lore/story regardless of how good or bad the gameplay actually is.

[Saddam Hussein]

No. You don't know what you're talking about.

You know I'm right.  Now re-subscribe and share in the lore.  lore lore lore

Saddam is the rarest and worst gamer of all, he who plays games solely for the lore/story regardless of how good or bad the gameplay actually is.

If that were true, I'd already have beaten Morrowind, along with Arena and Daggerfall.

[Particle Person]

The only other sensible conclusion is that you like bad games and dislike good games.

[Rushy]

If that were true, I'd already have beaten Morrowind, along with Arena and Daggerfall.

Well now I'm just confused. Why are you still playing ESO?

[Saddam Hussein]

If that were true, I'd already have beaten Morrowind, along with Arena and Daggerfall.

Well now I'm just confused. Why are you still playing ESO?

I just mean that "regardless of how good or bad the gameplay actually is" isn't quite accurate.  If the gameplay was awful enough, then I wouldn't be playing it, not even for the lore.  The only game that I've played through just for the lore/story while also recognizing that the gameplay itself was pretty bad was Redguard.  Oh, and also The Stanley Parable.

I have a great idea.  Let's talk about Morrowind again!

It's interesting that you feel spoiled by Skyrim, since it has fewer locations and less variety among them. Concerning dungeons: Skyrim has 176, which include Daedric shrines, caves, Dwemer ruins, mines, forts, and ruins. Morrowind has 224, and they include caves, ancestral tombs, daedric shrines and ruins, Dunmer strongholds, Dwemer ruins, grottos, mines, and Velothi towers.

This is incredibly misleading, bro.  Mainly because you're overgeneralizing the hell out of the Skyrim dungeons.  Like, Morrowind has caves and grottos, but Skyrim just has caves?  Even though Skyrim's caves vary wildly in their general look and feel, depending on their location and occupants?  Yeah, that's a totally-fair comparison.   I know that Morrowind does officially distinguish between the two, while Skyrim doesn't, but if we're going to go down that road, then Skyrim distinguishes between caves and passes, regular ruins and Nordic ruins, and Imperial towers, Nordic towers, and forts.  And the game also counts camps, ships/shipwrecks, and shacks as dungeons, although the last one is a bit of a stretch.

And then if we include the overworld dungeons - which might seem like a bit of an oxymoron, but Skyrim counted them as such - there's even more variety.  There are clearings, groves, dragon lairs, and giant camps, far more than what Boringwang offers.

[Particle Person]

I have a great idea.  Let's talk about Morrowind again!

It's interesting that you feel spoiled by Skyrim, since it has fewer locations and less variety among them. Concerning dungeons: Skyrim has 176, which include Daedric shrines, caves, Dwemer ruins, mines, forts, and ruins. Morrowind has 224, and they include caves, ancestral tombs, daedric shrines and ruins, Dunmer strongholds, Dwemer ruins, grottos, mines, and Velothi towers.

This is incredibly misleading, bro.  Mainly because you're overgeneralizing the hell out of the Skyrim dungeons.  Like, Morrowind has caves and grottos, but Skyrim just has caves?  Even though Skyrim's caves vary wildly in their general look and feel, depending on their location and occupants?  Yeah, that's a totally-fair comparison.   I know that Morrowind does officially distinguish between the two, while Skyrim doesn't, but if we're going to go down that road, then Skyrim distinguishes between caves and passes, regular ruins and Nordic ruins, and Imperial towers, Nordic towers, and forts.  And the game also counts camps, ships/shipwrecks, and shacks as dungeons, although the last one is a bit of a stretch.

You haven't provided any evidence contrary to the claim that Morrowind's locations are both more numerous and more varied than Skyrim's. I will admit that Skyrim's caves have more aesthetic variety.

And then if we include the overworld dungeons - which might seem like a bit of an oxymoron, but Skyrim counted them as such - there's even more variety.  There are clearings, groves, dragon lairs, and giant camps, far more than what Boringwang offers.

I see that Skyrim has successfully tricked you into thinking that its overworld is a varied and interesting place through the use of extremely excessive map markers. Wow, there are clearings and groves? I'm about to blow up your mind: Morrowind also had clearings and groves. However, it's such a humble game that it doesn't even mark basic terrain features on the map to make the world appear more cluttered. As for dragon lairs and giant camps: dragon lairs are just open patches of ground with a word wall sitting atop them. As well as a dragon. Giant camps are just bonfires with giants and mammoths around them. These things are cool and I'm glad they're there, but they're nothing that wasn't matched or exceeded by Morrowind's world design, let alone "far more than". Vvardenfell is littered with shipwrecks, major and minor camps, abandoned dwellings, inhabited dwellings, plantations, and various other kinds of landmarks, so many of which aren't indicated on the map at all.

Also, where is the rest of my post? I talked about more than just dungeons.

[Saddam Hussein]

You haven't provided any evidence contrary to the claim that Morrowind's locations are both more numerous and more varied than Skyrim's. I will admit that Skyrim's caves have more aesthetic variety.

Not more numerous, but more varied, certainly.  Morrowind has caves, mines, Dwemer ruins, ships, daedric shrines, daedric ruins, grottos, ancestral tombs, Dunmer strongholds, and Velothi towers.  Skyrim has caves, mines, Dwemer ruins, ships, daedric shrines, passes, ruins, Nordic ruins, camps, Imperial towers, Nordic towers, and forts.  Twelve to ten, so there.

I see that Skyrim has successfully tricked you into thinking that its overworld is a varied and interesting place through the use of extremely excessive map markers. Wow, there are clearings and groves? I'm about to blow up your mind: Morrowind also had clearings and groves. However, it's such a humble game that it doesn't even mark basic terrain features on the map to make the world appear more cluttered. As for dragon lairs and giant camps: dragon lairs are just open patches of ground with a word wall sitting atop them. As well as a dragon. Giant camps are just bonfires with giants and mammoths around them. These things are cool and I'm glad they're there, but they're nothing that wasn't matched or exceeded by Morrowind's world design, let alone "far more than". Vvardenfell is littered with shipwrecks, major and minor camps, abandoned dwellings, inhabited dwellings, plantations, and various other kinds of landmarks, so many of which aren't indicated on the map at all.

Yeah, well, my dad could beat up your dad.

Also, where is the rest of my post? I talked about more than just dungeons.

Prove it.

[Vongeo]

Shit about Skyward sword()LOL VONGEO IS NOT TALKING ABOUT THINGS HE SAID HE WAS TALKING ABOUT() is all the quests are all the god damn same. OH go into this fucking cave fucktard. No tricking people into doing shit, no ogres just collecting old pieces of shit for pieces of shit who are old.

[Saddam Hussein]

Indeed.

And on the notion of the other points PP2 made:

Skyrim has 16 settlements, which range from major cities to minor cities to towns. The only variation in architecture is between the five major cities. Morrowind has 27 settlements, including Ashlander tribes, imperial towns, Dunmeri towns (Hlaalu, Redoran, or Telvanni), plantations, and the four major cities.

I could go on. Factions, weapons and armor, spell effects and enchantments, clothing, types of creatures, skills. There's more of pretty much everything in Morrowind. The claim that "there really is not all that much" compared to games nowadays is demonstrably false. I know this is definitely cheating, but include Tamriel Rebuilt in those numbers and you can quintuple everything. We may never see a mod of the same scale created for any other ES game.

Each interesting artifact in Skyrim is almost invariably both levelled and/or attached to a quest. In Morrowind, there are dozens of artifacts that you'll only find if you happen to stumble upon them, and they aren't scaled to your level.

Yes, this is all true, except for maybe the one about there being more types of creatures in Morrowind.  I believe they're about equal in that regard, going by what I've read online.

[Rushy]

One Skyrim settlement is worth 10 Morrowind settlements because the art and graphics workload for a game has increased quite a lot since the days of "wow his face has like, 16 pixels in 32 bit color!"

Skyrim thus has 160 settlements compared to Morrowind's 27.

[Particle Person]

One Skyrim settlement is worth 10 Morrowind settlements because the art and graphics workload for a game has increased quite a lot since the days of "wow his face has like, 16 pixels in 32 bit color!"

Skyrim thus has 160 settlements compared to Morrowind's 27.

Very wisely spake m'gentlescholar I humbly submit to your superier logic *tips trillby*

[Rushy]

Very wisely spake m'gentlescholar I humbly submit to your superier logic *tips trillby*

Regardless of my hyperbole, you'd be a fool not to admit that pitting Morrowind, a low fidelity game which consisted mostly of text, against Skyrim is a bunch of nonsense. Saddam's comparison to Oblivion allowed for a more even match.

[Particle Person]

Good point. I hadn't even considered Skyrim's fidelity and lack of text.