Re: No Stars
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2016, 04:59:15 PM »
Quote from: UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet link=topic=4809.msg92960#msg92960
Most NASA pictures are low exposure, some of them actually does show stars that are hard to see.
All of their high exposure photos do show stars.

Can you show me some of these photos, not composites, that show stars?
LORRI images from the New Horizons spacecraft show lots of stars, "some" even visible in low exposure
http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/soc/Pluto-Encounter/index.php?order=dateTaken&page=1

Stars also visible for the Martian rovers during Comet siding spring flyby
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C/2013_A1#During_comet_flyby

And here is a legit composite that do show stars, from Martian sky
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Spirit_phobos_deimos.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/PIA17937-MarsCuriosityRover-FirstAsteroidImage-20140420.jpg

Several stars and planets (including Earth) visible on this Saturn image:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/PIA17172_Saturn_eclipse_mosaic_bright_crop.jpg

Several of DSCOVR's image like this one contains some star when zoomed in
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Blue_marble_2015.jpg/800px-Blue_marble_2015.jpg

Does ANY of that even look real to you? Or even testable or verifiable? Looks like 100x100px black boxes with white specks.

That one with Saturn was a real side-splitter though honestly  ;D I guess when the bar to satisfy the burden of proof is this low it's very easy to accept whatever garbage you're given.


Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Re: No Stars
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2016, 05:40:26 PM »
it's very easy to accept whatever garbage you're given.
This is what i get instead of appreciation for taking my time to search and compile that list?
The least nicest thing you could do was to present your source why their all fakes!

Looks like 100x100px
Nope of all the pictures in the list, the smallest resolution is 256x256

black boxes with white specks.
Have you seen what the moonless clear night sky looks like?
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Re: No Stars
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2016, 05:55:41 PM »
UPDATE I finally FOUND ONE IT HAS STARS

EDIT I say, without understanding the implications, this IS A MAJOR IMPORTANT VIDEO



Finally found one. Hell of a Spring Break, getting into FE and all.

Also sorry for large font, just edited post because this is the single most significant piece of research I've found in my entire life ~at least so it feels... so far. Probably means nothing, ultimately, but this is something that has been driving me nuts. Feel free to ignore the music and text of the video, just the night time launch is enough (why doesn't nasa or anyone have this?)
I finally took my time to watch the video, i noticed the surface feature of the Moon is not visible, meanwhile most NASA pictures do show surface/atmosphere features of the planets/moons. Most ground picture of the full Moon showing surface feature also doesn't show stars.
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: No Stars
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2016, 12:06:43 AM »
Does ANY of that even look real to you? Or even testable or verifiable? Looks like 100x100px black boxes with white specks.

If you bothered to check it out most of the bright dots were 1 or 2 pixels! The whole picture is only 800x800 pixels!

Get a good DSCOVR photo in high resolution and try again!

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Offline Roundy

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Re: No Stars
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2016, 01:31:43 AM »
That's not a real photo.
And you have proof of this claim?

It's actually a well-known fact.  I invite you to do your own research, as UOSSP should have before he even bothered posting it.
I'd admit both side have bias, i did research why this photo is real, not why it's not. I could say it's real without cite my claim just like what you did, but if you ask for proof, why should i be the one who give you proof?

No bias here, the picture is not real.  Again, it's a well-known fact.  I don't have the inclination to cite sources, because I'm not engaging in debate, and I really don't give two shits if you believe it.  I'm just trying to help you and your brothers avoid looking like a smacked ass by pointing to a photo that is expressly not real as evidence of... well, anything, really.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline nametaken

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Re: No Stars
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2016, 02:13:29 AM »
NASA isn't out to prove their pictures are real - there's no need. It's safe to say nearly 100% of the general public [of any country] wouldn't bother questioning it; whether they believe it (or even care) or not ~and regardless of how relatively easy it were to prove/disprove it.

main issue is, why are NASA pictures showing no stars, if commercial videos show them.
In the NASA pictures that show no stars, what is the main subject of the picture?  In the commercial videos that show them, what is the main subject of the video?

Very good point, my argument lacks integrity there. Still, I am steadily gaining curiosity about field of view, especially from a video game design standpoint ~the higher you go past a certain point, the smaller your FOV becomes ~not larger, as NASA's [composite] photographs assume. Obviously there is [supposedly] a difference between virtual and actual reality, but I wonder, with high altitude balloons.

I finally took my time to watch the video, i noticed the surface feature of the Moon is not visible, meanwhile most NASA pictures do show surface/atmosphere features of the planets/moons. Most ground picture of the full Moon showing surface feature also doesn't show stars.

Thanks for watching, and I totally missed that point. He says the Sun is 5 hours behind the moon in that video... so why if the moon so acking bright? Blindingly bright? Great observation. I must have been blind to miss that.
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[H]ominem unius libri timeo ~Truth is stranger.

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Offline nametaken

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Re: No Stars
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2016, 03:16:33 PM »
Sorry for double post and really late response; a different look. I answered the question I posited here and thought I'd share it ffs. Without any major scientific quotations, equations, or the like; simple since that's the way I came to understand it (again).

It might have been observed already here, but it hit me recently, maybe I can help someone else 'get it'.

Question: Where are the stars?
Emphasis/Context: Day-launch balloons, NASA photos, etc
Explicit: Why don't we see stars in "space" or "high altitude balloon footage"?
What is this guy on about: This Video is a good example (ignore the Flat Earth context for a second, it's the 'blackness' that I'm focused on IE no stars)

Answer: Simple misconception. During "Day Time" launches of high-altitude balloons or rockets, no stars are observable. Nevertheless, the sky is 'black'. This probably has something to do with the nature of light; specifically, it's concentration level (ie bleed - 'blackness'). So, this means, that stars are only visible when the sun is 'hidden' or 'occulted'. Exception: you can see the stars come in/out of focus in the evening/morning; a kind of 'fade effect'. A general rule; the more intense the sun's local presence, the more impossible it is to see stars (unless you pass out).

Now, this means that any 'satellites' should not see stars, outside of a few very rare circumstances; if the sun dictates that stars are not visible in it's presence, we shouldn't see stars (spoiler: we don't). Though the black expanse of day-launch high altitude balloons can be disconcerting, and is what led me to make the original post here. The idea that stars only appear in the 'shade' of the Earth, is very interesting in itself, with implications I can hardly fathom; though we all 'know' it already. This of course, also shifts the suspicion from NASA images that don't have stars in them, to any pictures of 'outer space' that DO have stars in them, as being potential hoaxes. Understanding the fundamental nature of light is something I am not sure I'm capable of achieving in a single lifetime, personally... but there are academic resources for that, if you are interested. For example, Hubble Deep Field (if not a hoax) shows what is possible through long-exposure. This is by no means a scientific explanation, just my own [belated] response to a question I happened to ask [over 120 days ago].

In any case I can see why The Flat Earth never really looses tract; [if even considered, it] calls for reevaluation of things you already 'know' and 'take for granted'. Anyway that was probably boring af, but thought I'd [embarrass myself and] share.

Edit: In sum, I realize the naivete of my original question; but I also understand where it came from - trying to understand (or make!) a flat earth model. To be more succinct with my answer: the 'blackness' of space is not indicative of an absence of light; it is the default form that an abundance takes. As for what I stated about 'the shade of the Earth that the stars hide in':



The Penumbra represents the 'evening' and 'morning'; the 'umbra' represents the 'night time'; the only place where we can see stars. Anywhere 'in space' outside of the ubmra of a planet, means... no stars. Not sure how this works on the Flat Earth (of course, without resorting to daoism); thats why I asked this initial question, I now realize. That's all.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 04:22:35 PM by nametaken »
The Flat Earth Society has members all around the Globe
[H]ominem unius libri timeo ~Truth is stranger.

Re: No Stars
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2016, 05:51:40 PM »
Answer: Simple misconception. During "Day Time" launches of high-altitude balloons or rockets, no stars are observable. Nevertheless, the sky is 'black'. This probably has something to do with the nature of light; specifically, it's concentration level (ie bleed - 'blackness'). So, this means, that stars are only visible when the sun is 'hidden' or 'occulted'. Exception: you can see the stars come in/out of focus in the evening/morning; a kind of 'fade effect'. A general rule; the more intense the sun's local presence, the more impossible it is to see stars (unless you pass out).

Close, but not quite. As model29 stated, it has to do with the light exposure of the image. If a camera allows enough light in to actually see the stars, then any well-lit foreground object will just be a white blur. This website explains various techniques for photographing the stars. Notice that most pictures of the stars contain a dark foreground. The pictures that include lit up foreground elements require post processing (like compositing) or very precise lighting. You can test this yourself if you have a camera. It is tough to get a picture that includes both the stars AND a well lit foreground.

Our eyes are actually quite amazing in their ability to see a huge range of lighting at the same time. We can see a much greater range than most cameras.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: No Stars
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2016, 12:53:35 PM »
The OP asks the question
main issue is, why are NASA pictures showing no stars, if commercial videos show them.
Some reasons have been given, but stars in space do not twinkle and so are extremely small in any photograph (much, much smaller than a pixel). Unless enough light reaches a pixel it will not show at all.

In some photographs, the background can be enhanced so "bring up" the stars. One such photo I have is from the DSCOVR EPIC. This was taken from about 1 million miles from earth, almost in line with the sun. The pixel size in this photo is only 1.07 arcsec, much smaller than for photos from closer to earth.


DSCOVR EPIC USA 2028x2048
........

DSCOVR EPIC USA 2048x2048 - stars highlighted

The image I downloaded was at 2048x2048 pixels (the full resolution of EPIC) and ".png", so no ".jpeg" artifacts. This is shown in the left image above.
I enhanced the contrast in the "black" background, enlarged the tiny dots and coloured them yellow, so they would be easy to see, and lo and behold there are stars in the photo! I do not know if stars can be "brought out" in other photos in this way. Maybe the large distance from earth helped here, because of the had to have a high resolution (EPIC has an aperture diameter of 30.5 cm (12.0 in), f 9.38[1], a FOV of 0.61° and an angular sampling resolution of 1.07 arcsec.)
But, some space photos do have stars in them.
;) Just needs a bit of "Photoshopping"[2]  ;)

[1] An aperture diameter of 30.5 cm at f 9.38 implies a focal length of 286 cm - a rather long telephoto lens (astronomical telescope really)!

[2] Actually, I used Paintbrush Pro X9 actually, not Photoshop.


Re: No Stars
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2016, 01:34:06 AM »
Rabinoz, The image you used was one of the first EPIC images released (July 6, 2015). I am pretty sure those aren't stars. Several reasons:

1. Those dots only appear in the very first images released. They don't appear in any of the images downloadable from from http://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/.
2. You can see very similar looking dots on top of the earth, not just surrounding the earth. (522x1064, 1409x350, 1327x345, for example)
3. Those first images were re-released: "Reprocessed version of the first light image of North and Central America made by the DSCOVR EPIC camera on July 6, 2015." Those dots are no longer visible. Of course, the dots that were on the earth are still visible, so I assume they just cut out the earth and overlayed it onto a black background. (And tweaked the brightness/saturation a bit). I suspect all the images that you can get from the main portal are cropped and overlayed like this.
4. There is one group of images that don't have a completely pitch black background. If you increase the brightness, you can tell how they were rotated, so they clearly weren't cropped like the others. These images were taken within several minutes of each other, so the backdrop of stars shouldn't have changed much. However, the specks seem to be randomly placed in all the images, which indicates they are just an artifact of the lens/sensor/compression/transmission/processing/whatever. There are a few pixels that don't change at all, but they all have a reddish hue (pixels 1363x135 and 1396x142 for example). I suspect that they are a result of dead pixels on the sensor or something.

Sometimes I get carried away looking at pictures of space...

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: No Stars
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2016, 12:39:13 PM »
Rabinoz, The image you used was one of the first EPIC images released (July 6, 2015). I am pretty sure those aren't stars. Several reasons:

1. Those dots only appear in the very first images released. They don't appear in any of the images downloadable from from http://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/.
2. You can see very similar looking dots on top of the earth, not just surrounding the earth. (522x1064, 1409x350, 1327x345, for example)
3. Those first images were re-released: "Reprocessed version of the first light image of North and Central America made by the DSCOVR EPIC camera on July 6, 2015." Those dots are no longer visible. Of course, the dots that were on the earth are still visible, so I assume they just cut out the earth and overlayed it onto a black background. (And tweaked the brightness/saturation a bit). I suspect all the images that you can get from the main portal are cropped and overlayed like this.
4. There is one group of images that don't have a completely pitch black background. If you increase the brightness, you can tell how they were rotated, so they clearly weren't cropped like the others. These images were taken within several minutes of each other, so the backdrop of stars shouldn't have changed much. However, the specks seem to be randomly placed in all the images, which indicates they are just an artifact of the lens/sensor/compression/transmission/processing/whatever. There are a few pixels that don't change at all, but they all have a reddish hue (pixels 1363x135 and 1396x142 for example). I suspect that they are a result of dead pixels on the sensor or something.

Sometimes I get carried away looking at pictures of space...
Yes, it looks like that. I imagine the frames making up the video are adjusted to align the frames.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: No Stars
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2016, 08:30:33 PM »
In some photographs, the background can be enhanced so "bring up" the stars. One such photo I have is from the DSCOVR EPIC. This was taken from about 1 million miles from earth, almost in line with the sun. The pixel size in this photo is only 1.07 arcsec, much smaller than for photos from closer to earth.


DSCOVR EPIC USA 2028x2048
........

DSCOVR EPIC USA 2048x2048 - stars highlighted

The image I downloaded was at 2048x2048 pixels (the full resolution of EPIC) and ".png", so no ".jpeg" artifacts. This is shown in the left image above.

What are the chances of clouds spelling SEX in the sky?


Re: No Stars
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2016, 10:29:24 PM »
What are the chances of clouds spelling SEX in the sky?

I can find shapes/patterns/words in the clouds all the time. You should try lying on your back and looking up some time. Regardless, this has absolutely nothing to do with the visibility of stars in pictures.

Rama Set

Re: No Stars
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2016, 11:36:03 PM »

What are the chances of clouds spelling SEX in the sky?


Lower than the chance that you are interpreting those clouds as spelling SEX. 

Re: No Stars
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2016, 12:07:06 AM »
it obviously spells °SEY1j
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: No Stars
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2016, 02:16:54 AM »
In some photographs, the background can be enhanced so "bring up" the stars. One such photo I have is from the DSCOVR EPIC. This was taken from about 1 million miles from earth, almost in line with the sun. The pixel size in this photo is only 1.07 arcsec, much smaller than for photos from closer to earth.


DSCOVR EPIC USA 2028x2048
........

DSCOVR EPIC USA 2048x2048 - stars highlighted

The image I downloaded was at 2048x2048 pixels (the full resolution of EPIC) and ".png", so no ".jpeg" artifacts. This is shown in the left image above.

What are the chances of clouds spelling SEX in the sky?
I don't know and what are the chances of:

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Offline markjo

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Re: No Stars
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2016, 01:23:01 PM »
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Offline Nostra

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Re: No Stars
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2016, 01:59:46 PM »
Proud to be the 1 other!

Offline Norr

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Re: No Stars
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2016, 02:32:31 PM »
 Quick answer: The dense atmosphere of earth means little to no exposure time because the light is being reflected through the gasses.

 In space where there is very little gas in any given area, the camera must focus longer to get the same amount of light entering it. If there was a thick medium for the light to travel through it would be easier and would take far less time.
 
 The fact that we can see stars through the atmosphere of earth is simple to explain: Earth has been getting billions of years of light exposure.

Re: No Stars
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2016, 09:54:22 PM »
Quick answer: The dense atmosphere of earth means little to no exposure time because the light is being reflected through the gasses.

 In space where there is very little gas in any given area, the camera must focus longer to get the same amount of light entering it. If there was a thick medium for the light to travel through it would be easier and would take far less time.
 
 The fact that we can see stars through the atmosphere of earth is simple to explain: Earth has been getting billions of years of light exposure.

Sorry, but no. The presence of an atmosphere does not make a camera focus faster. Less atmosphere means MORE light from the stars reaches the camera, not less. The real explanation has been given several times on this thread. It has to do with brightness of the stars relative to the thing you are photographing.